He says I raped him.

[Craig]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

It's not like women rape men all the time like men rape women every 4 min. I don't believe that any man has ever been raped. Perhaps there are some cases, but how many? Two in the last 30 years?

According to U.S. Department of Justice statistics from 1997, an estimated 9 percent of rape survivors are male. Most of their attackers are male but some are female. This means that if a woman is raped every 4 minutes then a man is raped every 44 minutes (approximately). Most of these rapes of men are by other men but some are by women.

 

 

A NORWEGIAN court has sentenced a woman to nine months in jail and ordered to pay $6,355 for raping a man.

 

At a party the 31-year old man woke up to find the 23-year old women having oralsex with him. In the couch sat the woman's 40-year old friend watching them.

 

The women has in the court said that she didnt have sex with the man, and that she just cuddled a bit. DNA analysis though showed that it was her saliva in the mans underpants. The raped man said in court "I feel let down. They both knew i was going to get married and that i was becoming a father"

 

http://www.news.com.au/story/print/0,10119,15117556,00.html

 

 

"Men get raped by other men and even women"

Rape Crisis Center of Catawaba County, Hickory, NC

http://www.rapecrisiscenter.com/Male%20Rape%20Info%20Sheet.html

 

 

South Africa, is grappling with a new twist to its biggest public health problem: women who rape men. In a recent case, a 39-year-old father of three was stopped by three armed women late at night outside Johannesburg. They forced him to go with them to an isolated field, where they ordered him to strip and then each woman raped him.

http://www.sexnewsdaily.com/issue/b520-051904.html#women%20rape%20men

 

 

Recently in Lisbon, a group of three women raped five men.

http://english.pravda.ru/world/2001/01/04/1827.html

 

 

- 60% of male victims of child sexual abuse reported being victimized by women.

- 14% to 27% of male victims have been sexually abused by women acting alone or with a partner.

- Reluctant men can get erections due to touch or strong emotional reactions, such as fear. The example cited was a group of women that tied a man to a bed and mounted him repeatedly for sexual intercourse. The women used manual stimulation and a knife pressed against his scrotum to force the man to have erections.

Sexually Aggressive Women: Current Perspectives and Controversies by Peter B. Anderson, Guildford Press, 1998

 

 

A British woman was sentenced to 2 1/2 years in jail for ripping off her ex-lover's testicle with her bare hands during a drunken brawl after he refused her sex.

http://seattlepi.nwsource.com/national/211499_ripoff10ww.html

 

 

(12/6/01) Can a big man be raped by a woman?

Although the incidence of women raping men is low, it can happen. A big man could be raped by a woman. She could use a weapon to intimidate him, and a man can get an erection out of fear.

City College of San Francisco, Womens Studies Dept.

http://www.ccsf.edu/Departments/Women_Studies/Project_SURVIVE/4_01.html

 

 

So it would seem that women can and do rape men. Based on what I've read, men are reluctant to report rapes by male or female rapists. After all who would ever believe a woman could/would rape a man?

 

Remember that no matter how thin you slice it, there are always two sides to the story. We haven't heard his side of the story and if the thread starter was male I know that some people would be going crazy with anger about him raping his drunk ex gf.

 

Cherry7up, this is a difficult position for you to be in. No one knows what happened in that room except for you and your ex-bf. It looks like it doesn't matter which path you choose except that some people might see it as a sign of your guilt if you don't show up at the same dinner's, party's, etc. as your ex-bf. I hope the truth somehow comes out.

[RecordProducer]

Originally posted by Craig

At a party the 31-year old man woke up to find the 23-year old women having oralsex with him. In the couch sat the woman's 40-year old friend watching them.

 

She definitely broke the law and should be punished for that, but how can that compare to how mercilessly men rape women? I bet the guy sued her only to prove his wife that he's innocent.

Your attempt to deny the obvious truth is ridiculous! I'd like to try and convince you that if a man is hit hard in his groin it will equally hurt him as if a woman was hit in the same place.

[shamen]

Originally posted by Craig

According to U.S. Department of Justice statistics from 1997, an estimated 9 percent of rape survivors are male. Most of their attackers are male but some are female. This means that if a woman is raped every 4 minutes then a man is raped every 44 minutes (approximately). Most of these rapes of men are by other men but some are by women.

 

Thanks Craig for bringing up this point. Record Producer mentioned earlier that she didn't believe that men get raped. They most certainly do, just like women.

 

 

Sorry, Cherry, to hear of the predicament that you are in.

[Craig]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

She definitely broke the law and should be punished for that, but how can that compare to how mercilessly men rape women? I bet the guy sued her only to prove his wife that he's innocent.

This isn't about comparing how awful one act of violence is to another.

 

The attitude that he sued only to prove to his wife that he's innocent does not erase the fact that she denied having oral sex with him and was found guilty (thanks to DNA evidence) in a Criminal Court and sentenced to jail as well as being fined. That attitude only serves to illustrate gender bias and gender stereotyping regarding these issues. Not all men will have sex with anything, some men probably would have sex with anything but some men find the idea of actually having sex with anyone but their sig. other abhorrent.

[Elmo]

Originally posted by SexKitten

 

 

you're just proving everyone else's point.

 

most people DO NOT agree that the kinds of girls you described are raped in this kind of situation, and so do not think this man was raped either.

 

just because more women seem to "come forward" about it does not mean that it is accepted by everyone as actual rape. i get just as annoyed with women who claim to be raped but really just regretted a decision that they did not want to be responsible for. so basically, you're indicating that girls lie about it, so guys should too...which furthur indicates you do not believe this was a true rape.

 

the same goes for this guy. if it was a rape situation, i would say put her in jail. but it wasn't. so boo effin' hoo to him too.

 

Uhhh...I must give up crack if it is making my posts so diffifult to decipher.

 

My point was that this guy is an idiot that drank himself into a stupor then had sex and cried rape because of his idiocy. Women that do this are also in the idiot category.

[RecordProducer]

Originally posted by Craig

Not all men will have sex with anything, some men probably would have sex with anything but some men find the idea of actually having sex with anyone but their sig. other abhorrent.

 

So you see rape over a male as "having sex" and one of the reasons it's rape is because it's cheating on their SO. See, if I were raped now, I wouldn't feel like I was cheating on my SO. Rape is violence and a lifetime trauma for a woman, not a one-night stand.

It definitely doesn't feel the same for both genders and I am not talking about the law here. I said she did break the law and should be punished so you're beating a dead horse by trying to convince me that she broke the law.

Stealing an umbrella is also a crime, but can't compare to rape, can it? Just like rape cannot compare to murder. It's different when a man is a rapist than a woman. That's all I am saying.

[Elmo]

Originally posted by kooky

 

I don't see your point here. Nobody said these women were right. It's not the posters fault if the law is biased and they get through with it. If you just look at her case, then common sense tells you, it was not rape.

 

Ummm....yes....my point was that it is silly for drunken girls to cry rape just as it is silly for drunken men to cry rape. I thought I was being straightforward in my sarcasm.

[tanbark813]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

It definitely doesn't feel the same for both genders and I am not talking about the law here. ... It's different when a man is a rapist than a woman. That's all I am saying.

 

I find it odd that you think you know what it feels like for a man. I don't think you'd like it if some guy professed to knowing what it's like as a woman to be raped.

[Tinman]

Besides there is no such thing like a guy rape, unless the woman tied a man who cried and defended himself, beat him, then gave him something to get his penis up and raped him.

 

Wow, it's rare to come across a statement so amazingly ignorant.

 

Okay, here we go. First of all, I'm seriously hoping you don't really believe this and were attempting some form of hyperbole. If that's the case then disregard the following and accept my apologies for the accusation of ignorance.

 

Secondly, I'd like to be clear that I am not saying that this was an incident of rape. When you have two extremely drunk individuals you hit a very gray area in the law, and because of this, prosecutions are rare without sizeable supporting evidence. From the account that was given I think its unlikely that a case could be made for rape.

 

Now with that said, here goes.

Rape does not have a ****ing thing to do with the level of arousal or participation! I'll repeat this for clarity. Just as a women becoming aroused or even cumming during rape does not make it any less of a rape, likewise, a man getting an erection has nothing to do with consent.

 

One more time. The defining factor in determining rape is consent. Just consent. Only consent.

 

This is where inebriation comes in. Legally, when one reaches that special land known as 'wasted-out-of-their-minds' they are no longer able to give consent. That's partially where date rape comes into play. Likewise with the various 'date-rape' drugs. The victim may very well be an active participant but if they are unable to give or withdraw consent it becomes rape. Now, as has been mentioned several times, rape is hard to prove without compelling physical evidence. Rape where there is no physical coercion is doubly hard to prove precisely because without physical coercion it is difficult to prove lack of consent.

 

Now, does this mean drunk sex is always rape? Of course not. There exists what is known as prior consent which works as sort of a 'common-sense' buffer that more or less says, "they were planning to have sex all along so unless we have reason to believe otherwise then it was probably consensual." Prior consent however, can of course be withdrawn so is not an iron-clad protection against rape charges. Similar issues come up in cases of spousal rape.

 

To wrap up. Rape is bases on consent. It doesn't matter if she came her brains out. It doesn't matter if he kept it up for hours and plastered the ceilings. Drunk people are not always judged legally capable of giving consent. The flip side though, is being drunk does not render own immune to the repercussions of actions performed while drunk i.e. rape.

 

The lesson, if you **** a drunk person you might find yourself charged with rape whether or not you were also drunk and regardless of the gender of either party and especially if you are not already in an established relationship with that individual.

 

Anyway, there it is. I apologize for the length.

[Craig]

RecordProducer, no matter how you try and twist what I said I never said anything remotely similar to what you suggest I did.

 

What I said was "This isn't about comparing how awful one act of violence is to another." in response to your saying "how can that compare to how mercilessly men rape women?"

 

Then you went on to say "I bet the guy sued her only to prove his wife that he's innocent." The fact is that the woman in question did have oral sex with him without his consent while another woman watched. Your suggesting that he "sued her only to prove to his wife that he's innocent." is stereotyping all men because you don't know the full circumstances. Your use of the word "only" implies that all men would have no other reason for pursuing a case against her AND that if his wife hadn't found out then he wouldn't have gone to the police. I am saying you are wrong and that there are men that would pursue legal action against a woman in similar circumstances for reasons other than to prove to his SO that he's innocent.

 

I never said that rape was cheating on your SO. Where did you get that from?

 

You said "It's different when a man is a rapist than a woman." How is it different and how do you know what it's like to be a man and get raped?

[mixwell]

umm why would a guy complain about getting laid ?? how do you rape a guy ?? i mean seriously? ? is he a homosexual or what ?? i wouldnt complain one bit if my ex "raped" me.. how could a guy refuse sex ? haha thats a first !!

[Craig]

Originally posted by mixwell

umm why would a guy complain about getting laid ?? how do you rape a guy ?? i mean seriously? ? is he a homosexual or what ?? i wouldnt complain one bit if my ex "raped" me.. how could a guy refuse sex ? haha thats a first !!

How about this mixwell, you are walking home from the bar one night and three women with guns force you into a nearby field and rape you, taking turns mounting you. Maybe they are so ugly to you that you are not sexually aroused but that doesn't stop them. They hold a knife to your nut sack and the intense fear causes you to get an erection.

 

(12/6/01) Can a big man be raped by a woman?

Although the incidence of women raping men is low, it can happen. A big man could be raped by a woman. She could use a weapon to intimidate him, and a man can get an erection out of fear.

City College of San Francisco, Womens Studies Dept.

http://www.ccsf.edu/Departments/Women_Studies/Project_SURVIVE/4_6.html

 

Still horny?

[SexKitten]

Originally posted by Elmo

Ummm....yes....my point was that it is silly for drunken girls to cry rape just as it is silly for drunken men to cry rape. I thought I was being straightforward in my sarcasm.

 

sorry then...sarcasm isn't straightforward...and it's also hard to pick up on in the unspoken word.

 

seeing as you said that billbadass was right, it indicated you agreed with him, which is the opposite of what you are saying now.

 

so yeah, maybe laying off the crack is a good idea.

[SexKitten]

Originally posted by Tinman

 

 

This is where inebriation comes in. Legally, when one reaches that special land known as 'wasted-out-of-their-minds' they are no longer able to give consent. That's partially where date rape comes into play. Likewise with the various 'date-rape' drugs. The victim may very well be an active participant but if they are unable to give or withdraw consent it becomes rape. Now, as has been mentioned several times, rape is hard to prove without compelling physical evidence. Rape where there is no physical coercion is doubly hard to prove precisely because without physical coercion it is difficult to prove lack of consent.

 

so then....in this case, they are both rapists...? both were drunk, both initiated sexual acts without duress, and both actively participated while technically unable to consent while under the influence. he obviously at some point did consent, because he said if it was another girl, he wouldn't have had sex with her. he knew it was her, so he was coherent enough to register that.

 

it is my opinion that two so-called "rapists" drunkenly screwing each other cancel each other out.

 

you cannot rape the willing, and at the time, they both were willing. no threats, no violence, just two stupid drunk people gettin' on, and one regretful pussy who can't admit it and wants negative attention.

 

what a fool. and yes, i think the same thing about women who do this also. it put every victim of every case of actual rape up for complete scrutiny and embarrassment.

[RecordProducer]

I am talking about the intensity of the trauma caused to a woman when raped by a man vs. the one of a man raped by a woman. I believe if a man is raped by another man, it's as awful as for a woman, if not even worse. Same for children raped by women or - much worse - by men. But we're talking about a guy getting a free BJ. Although it's definitely not what he wanted I intimately cannot believe that it's as traumatic for him as for a woman getting the oral job from a man in her sleep.

So it's my word against yours. My personal perception against yours. The law is obviously on my side as it's "biased" in women's favor.

Are you guys saying that if a woman gave you a BJ or sex job without your consent you would need an extensive and long-lasting psychotherapy and cry every night over it and feel like dying or killing the rapist for years afterwards and NEVER get over it as long as you live? This is how women and children feel when raped or molested. Don't you have sisters or mothers or daughters or GFs? Do you think it'd be the same for them as for you?

Gimme a break!

[SexKitten]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

I am talking about the intensity of the trauma caused to a woman when raped by a man vs. the one of a man raped by a woman. I believe if a man is raped by another man, it's as awful as for a woman, if not even worse. Same for children raped by women or - much worse - by men. But we're talking about a guy getting a free BJ. Although it's definitely not what he wanted I intimately cannot believe that it's as traumatic for him as for a woman getting the oral job from a man in her sleep.

So it's my word against yours. My personal perception against yours. The law is obviously on my side as it's "biased" in women's favor.

Are you guys saying that if a woman gave you a BJ or sex job without your consent you would need an extensive and long-lasting psychotherapy and cry every night over it and feel like dying or killing the rapist for years afterwards and NEVER get over it as long as you live? This is how women and children feel when raped or molested. Don't you have sisters or mothers or daughters or GFs? Do you think it'd be the same for them as for you?

Gimme a break!

 

 

i do have to say that i am with you, RP, on the trauma part. rape is an angry man's power trip, and the woman suffers much more from it.

 

if a woman holds a man at gunpoint and shoves a broomhandle in his a$$, i can see that that would be traumatic.

 

i don't know that i ever heard of a man raping a woman by forcing what he thought would be pleasure on her. maybe children, but otherwise, i haven't...

[tanbark813]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

I intimately cannot believe that it's as traumatic for him as for a woman getting the oral job from a man in her sleep.

 

The fact that you cannot believe it does not make it false.

[RecordProducer]

Originally posted by tanbark813

The fact that you cannot believe it does not make it false.

 

Just as the fact that you're not a woman makes you incompetent of claiming that it's the same for both genders.

[Craig]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

I am talking about the intensity of the trauma caused to a woman when raped by a man vs. the one of a man raped by a woman. I believe if a man is raped by another man, it's as awful as for a woman, if not even worse. Same for children raped by women or - much worse - by men. But we're talking about a guy getting a free BJ. Although it's definitely not what he wanted I intimately cannot believe that it's as traumatic for him as for a woman getting the oral job from a man in her sleep.

So it's my word against yours. My personal perception against yours. The law is obviously on my side as it's "biased" in women's favor.

Are you guys saying that if a woman gave you a BJ or sex job without your consent you would need an extensive and long-lasting psychotherapy and cry every night over it and feel like dying or killing the rapist for years afterwards and NEVER get over it as long as you live? This is how women and children feel when raped or molested. Don't you have sisters or mothers or daughters or GFs? Do you think it'd be the same for them as for you?

Gimme a break!

RecordProducer, it's your word against scientific peer reviewed studies from respected and reliable sources. According to the National Center for Victims of Crime...

 

research suggests that males also commonly experience many of the reactions that females experience. These reactions include: depression, anger, guilt, self-blame, sexual dysfunctions, flashbacks, and suicidal feelings (Isley, 1991). Other problems facing males include an increased sense of vulnerability, damaged self-image and emotional distancing (Mezey & King, 1989). Male rape victims not only have to confront unsympathetic attitudes if they choose to press charges, they also often hear unsupportive statements from their friends, family and acquaintances (Brochman, 1991). People will tend to fault the male victim instead of the rapist. Stephen Donaldson, president of Stop Prisoner Rape (a national education and advocacy group), says that the suppression of knowledge of male rape is so powerful and pervasive that criminals such as burglars and robbers sometimes rape their male victims as a sideline solely to prevent them from going to the police.

 

http://www.ncvc.org/ncvc/main.aspx?dbName=DocumentViewer&DocumentID=32361

[tanbark813]

Originally posted by RecordProducer

Just as the fact that you're not a woman makes you incompetent of claiming that it's the same for both genders.

 

I'm not claiming it's the same, because I have no idea what it feels like for either gender. I'm just saying you can't claim it's different, as you have no idea what it would be like as a man (and may or may not know what it's like as a woman).

 

I don't see how you can say you know what it's like for both genders because you're a woman, but since I'm a man I can't.

[Tinman]

NOTE: This comment is in relation to the sentiment being expressed that the rape of a man is somewhat less a crime then the rape of a women and not in relation to the OP. As I've said before, with the facts provided [albeit we only have one side] it definitely seems to fall into a legal gray area. Possibly proesecutable but likely more likely to fall into the realm of reasonable doubt.

 

I am talking about the intensity of the trauma caused to a woman when raped by a man vs. the one of a man raped by a woman.

 

 

So in your opinion the severity of the crime is based on the reaction of the victim?

 

For example, two muggings. Let's assume the muggers identical methods. In one case the victim is terrified to be alone at night due to the event. In the second, the victim files the report and procedes with his or her daily life.

 

Would you say the first incident was the greater crime?

 

Second example, two rapes also with identical circumstances. In the first, the victim is traumatized, suffers constant nightmares and is uncomfortable with the opposite sex from that point forward. We might as well toss in several years of unsucessful counseling. In the second case, the victim recovers and manages to move on with little mental damage.

 

Now, in both examples the instinct is that since the first crime caused the most damage that it should be treated more severely. But turn that on it's head for a moment. Can you imagine a judge passing sentence and remarking that, "well you seem to have come through alright, I guess your rape wasn't so bad."

 

Now, I deliberately left gender out of the above examples but here is where it comes in. Even accepting for a moment the premise that the majority of men will suffer less anquish from rape then women it is utterly nonsensical to use this to in any way invalidate the severity of the crime.

 

Just as one women having an extreme degree of resistance to trauma does not in any way reduce the trauma suffered by the next, the level of resistance some [hell I'll even go with the premise and say most] men may have to rape does not in any way alleviate the effect on others.

 

What I find even more disgusting is the attitude that seems to suggest that, "I'm sure he wanted it, so it can't have been rape." or "if it was rape, it can't have been comparable to what a women goes through."

 

I fail to see the difference between this attitude and, "Well come on, she's a slut. You can't rape the willing." or "It's not she was a virgin, that would be terrible. She's a hooker, it's not as bad as if a good girl had been raped."

[tanbark813]

Well said, Tinman.

[Tinman]

so then....in this case, they are both rapists...? both were drunk, both initiated sexual acts without duress, and both actively participated while technically unable to consent while under the influence. he obviously at some point did consent, because he said if it was another girl, he wouldn't have had sex with her. he knew it was her, so he was coherent enough to register that.

 

it is my opinion that two so-called "rapists" drunkenly screwing each other cancel each other out.

 

More or less correct at least in the legal sense which is why cases where both parties are incapacitated to some degree make it very hard to prove rape. Given the OP, both parties can claim they were unable to grant consent and thus could make a case for rape. Likewise, the lack of sobriety of both parties is not a defense, which makes for an odd dichotomy. Were the situation reversed, given societal biases, the OP would have a better chance of getting prosecution to press the case and would have a better chance of gaining a conviction but it would still be an extremely steep uphill battle.

 

What it comes down to in the OP's case is this. From what was posted it appears the OP was the primary motivating force behind the encounter given the ex did not seek her out and did not initiate. That, and the lack ability on the part of the ex to legally consent is where the case for rape comes from. However, given that there are only two witnessing parties and neither is in a position to give a full account its impossible for us to make any definitive judgment. Furthermore, while there is a case that can be made for rape it is an extremely weak one. Thus, with the information we have Occam's razor tells us that the OP is in all likelihood innocent.

[Tinman]

Oh, slight caveat to my last post. While it is indeed difficult, baring other evidence, to make a case for rape when both parties are intoxicated it is not impossible, and indeed, far from unheard of. All sexual encounters where one or both parties are past the point of legal consent carry an inherent risk. The risk is even greater when an ongoing sexual relationship is absent [meaning, those great initial hook-ups at a party or bar]. Now, drunken encounter certainly does not automatically equal an rape [or accusation thereof] but it is always an inherent risk that one must acknowledge. That's not to say one should ban alcohol from one's initial courting rituals [after all, what would happen to my sex life] but that we have to accept the fact that our behavior comes with risk.

 

In my view the situation is similar to safe sex. When we engage in sex we take the risk of STD's or pregnancy. Now, we do our best to use all precautions but the risk can never be totally eliminated. Likewise with drunken sex. It behooves us to ask ourselves, "If in the morning they remember that they're engaged/not attracted to me in the least/are bat**** crazy, have I taken the necessary precautions to ensure I'm protected from charges?"

 

Being too drunk to ask yourself that question is right up there with being too drunk to remember to use a condom. Both can carry lifelong consequences.

[cherry7up]

So I went out for coffee with my exes good friend/ex roomie tonight. He's a very good friend of mine as well. The rape rumors are definitely not coming from my exes mouth (though his silence isn't helping anything), mostly a couple of jerks. He's mainly upset that he can't remember ANYTHING, and he's VERY VERY angry about it. But i think the fact that his two best friends don't think I did anything wrong is going to mean a lot. I have a LOT of faith now that's he's going to come around and that (at the very least) all this rape crap will stop. But like I said, he's pretty upset over the whole thing. Once he calms down a bit and peple leave him alone about it...I think it'll be ok.

 

In fact, I'm certain it would have been over with WEEKS ago if certain people hadn't decided to get involved in it. I'm feeling a bit better about going to the dinner now. What do you guys think?