Am I being unreasonable?

[puzzleddad67]

Since everyone seems to give bio information I will provide a rough idea. Im late 40s and my wife is early 40s. Married for roughly twenty years. Two kids mid to late teens. My issue is my wife is going out in my opinion too much, too late, and I hate where she goes sometimes, and as a bonus, I cant stand who she goes out with. This is all new for her. She is my best friend. I love my marriage because I married someone who I can go biking with me one day and do dinner date type stuff also. We vacation together etc.

 

March this year she started a new sales job. She is a natural and quickly went from crappy part time income to over 80% of what I make. Let me be clear. I LOVE the fact she is doing well and likes her job. My issue is she goes out with her coworkers now two to four nights a week. The weekend outings are sometimes very late like three in the morning and in one case, after four. It started out as one night a week more or less. At first it was someone's house, then TGI's. Not overly fond of TGI bar thing but okay. Then she started going out with her coworkers to clubs some nights. I dont like that at all. I dont like her coworkers. Too "Eddie Haskell". (Female versions.) Early on, I went out with my wife them and the boyfriends/ husbands of the attached ones, rather than our normal Sat night date night to a nice restaurant or show or something else. I kept feeling like some of them were nice to my face, but not really. Unfortunately I dont hide dislike well, so I think they know I dont like them. They are nothing like our mutual "couple friends" Needless to say, the first time with them was the last.

 

Its starting to really strain our marriage. She wants to spend less time with me now. She wanted to go out with them instead of me Saturday. I had this new restaurant I found out about all lined up and I find out when I suggest it she tells me she is going out with her work friends. I got mad which made her mad. She said she loves her friends and I am being controlling. We have spent the better part of our marriage doing a date night on Saturdays.

 

I get that she has to have her own life and bluntly I hate it when she goes to clubs. I asked her Sunday to cut back and that the clubs are meet markets full of strange men after one thing. It got moderately ugly from there.

 

I know this is just my side. But isnt going out at least two nights a week a bit much and the club locations bad for married people?

[RecentChange]

Yeah honestly she is in her 40's not out rageing with her college friends any more.

 

If my partner (I am straight female) wanted to go out partying into the wee hours of the morning several days a week - like you, I would have a problem with it.

 

We go out for cocktails / night on the town once or twice a week - he has his "dude Thursdays" where he and a bunch of his friends spend the evening at a beer bar. Difference is I LIKE all of those guys, and I am more than welcome if I wanted to go - and its a brewery, not a meat market.

 

I don't think you are being unreasonable at all. If you weren't being excluded (and if these evenings out didn't drag till the morning) it would be one thing.

 

I am also coming from the experience of seeing things go bad partly do to toxic coworkers. In that case it was a bunch of overly macho guys (motor sports) who loved to party, and to cheat on their wives and girlfriends - it was done openly and encroaged.

[mrldii]

I agree...it's excessive...and it's NOT a good sign.

 

IMHO, she's either already found someone to cheat with (and is) or is [even subconsciously] looking to find someone to cheat with.

 

In my last LTR, the people I worked with went out once a week for happy hour on Fridays. Typically, those of us with spouses/mates would have them join up, too, and we were all gone by 7PM-ish...either the single folk went on to the clubs or the married folks returned to their married life...and tending to their kids. It's what we wanted to do.

 

Several times a week going for drinks and then going clubbing is excessive and NOT conducive to a married / still-raising-kids life.

 

You have reasons to be concerned and, as the husband and 50% of the relationship that's being effected, have every right to say so and to insist that it stop. Don't be surprised if she's reluctant and/or refuses to, though.

 

Best of luck to you...

[kgcolonel]

Been married 32 years here....this would be unacceptable for me. We have raised our son, built a nice home and have earned the "our time". If my wife began doing this and got angry when I requested she cut back...nothing good would evolve from this.

 

Are her "friends" single, married, faithful etc. The hours of 3:00 and 4:00 AM would make me highly suspicious as well. I think I would want more details and would begin with a non-confrontational conversation and if that didn't go well, stay mute on the subject and begin to investigate via a PI.

 

This behavior is not building the relationship but destructing it.

 

Do you suspect her involvement with someone else? I would wonder what her reaction would be if you asked her if she wanted an open relationship? Not that you do but she might show you her hand if you let her know how you saw this behavior?

[TaraMaiden2]

What follows is an assumption.

It's an assumption that it's her first job outside the home, in a long time.

So on THAT basis, I will give the following -

 

She's found her second wind, and is sensing the freedom that independence and her own money is bringing.

And she loves it.

 

To some, she may be establishing her feminist liberty, and making a statement against the drudgery and boredom of always being someone's wife, or so-and-so's mother.

 

She's regained her identity. She IS someone, again.

She's her own person, has control of her life and is relishing the freedom it has given her.

 

IF I am correct, then I give this food for thought:

 

I don't think it's very easy for many men to fully understand or appreciate what such a complete turn-around of life, does for a woman whose entire life, hitherto, has been centred and focused on being a home-maker, wife, mother and SAHM.

 

I have tasted a hefty dose of both, and I can absolutely see what's happening here.

If I'm right....

 

And IF I'm right - yes.

You're losing her.

 

Here's the trip.

Try to curtail her activities through objections and you'll (in her mind and opinion) stifle her, inhibit her, try to control her and cramp her style, because you're jealous she's found something else to do other than pander to you and the kids all the time. That life is over, it was great at the time, but now it's utter boredom by comparison.

 

Stand back, do more at home, greet her when she gets in on normal days with a nice meal, a glass of wine, or the offer of a meal out/takeaway, and show an interest in her day - I mean, really get involved - and you might be able to salvage it.

 

Right now, she sees you on different pages, and you're the stick-in-the-mud. She, of course, can do no wrong, and it's you, you dinosaur, who should move with the times and get with the programme.

 

I'm not blaming you.

But as a woman who went through pretty much the same kind of experience, I'm merely relating it from where I think her mind is.

 

And I'm not defending her. No sir.

Not at all.

What she's doing is inconsiderate, selfish and one-sided.

She's utterly failed to take your feelings on the matter into consideration, and refuses to see there HAS to be give and take.

And in her present state of mind, there ain't gonna be nuthin' to sway her....

 

Try with the tactic I gave you.

And in time, as she mellows, talk to her.

Because right now, as things stand, you don't stand a chance.

Not a hope in hell.

 

Be more "accommodating and understanding", more... 'co-operative'... and it may work.

[Els]

I do think she's being excessive, especially if you have a long history of Saturday being date night and she's regularly ditching that to hang out with colleagues. She probably is obligated to hang out with them SOMEtimes (even if it isn't explicitly stated, doing otherwise can really negatively impact you) but she has to be able to draw the line.

 

That being said I also think you made things unnecessarily difficult for her by showing her colleagues that you disliked them when you met them. If I was her I would be very annoyed by that - it's a whole lot of drama and she's forced to be in the midst of it now. She would probably see you as being unreasonable towards her colleagues after that incident, and that would colour her perception of anything else you say about them. That is quite unfortunate, as the rest of your gripes are actually genuine and reasonable.

 

How about a compromise - she can go out with her friends without you being disapproving about it all, but she keeps Saturday evening free for both of you barring rare events that she cannot change (annual company dinner etc)?

[Gloria25]

What follows is an assumption.

It's an assumption that it's her first job outside the home, in a long time.

So on THAT basis, I will give the following -

 

She's found her second wind, and is sensing the freedom that independence and her own money is bringing.

And she loves it.

 

To some, she may be establishing her feminist liberty, and making a statement against the drudgery and boredom of always being someone's wife, or so-and-so's mother.

 

She's regained her identity. She IS someone, again.

She's her own person, has control of her life and is relishing the freedom it has given her.

 

I agreed with some ^^ of the above...

 

I DON'T agree with the OP being "accommodating" to her "new found identity".

 

See, thing is, when you are in a RL - especially a "marriage" you don't live life and/or make decisions as if you were single and/or a free agent. Like it or not, your decisions affect your spouse and/or the kids.

 

So, if you wanna bring home a bucket of ice cream for yourself to eat - you better make sure you bring home enough to share with your husband and kids...cuz, it's not about "you" anymore.

 

My thing is, if she found this new "identity", then she needs to decide if she wants to be single again or stay married. If she wants to stay married - needs to be at home by 11/12PM, not REPLACE activities with co-workers over her family and SO.

 

You don't marry people and/or have a family to tell them to "don't wait up" for you - as if you only have a family and husband in name only and live literally a single life.

 

In life, when we choose on path (in this case marriage and kids) miss out and/or have to give up other stuff (in this case staying out late, running the streets with co-workers...stuff single people do). Same way if she chose to be single, she wouldn't be able to come home and curl up to a warm body (her husband) and be able hug and kiss her kiddies and walk around and be a proud "mom" in the community.

 

Pick one side (single or married) and stay there.

[TaraMaiden2]

The one reason - and only reason - I suggested he should be accommodating to her 'new-found identity' is for the purposes of "reverse psychology".

 

 

The more he pushes his point, insists on her curbing her ways and demonstrates his displeasure, the more he will drive her away.

If he at least plays it cool, tries to be flexible, and makes allowances for her change of mind-set, there is every likelihood and possibility that she too will become less insistent, more flexible and tolerant of his engagement with her....

 

The best way to attract someone, is to play it distant.

The best way he can convince her to stay, is to make her think she has "his blessing" to continue....

In time, if he doesn't lean on her too heavily, she will be persuaded by her own opinion, to modify her behaviour.

[acrosstheuniverse]

I don't think it's appropriate for a marriage, when the spouse isn't happy with it. I mean I'm in my mid twenties and I wouldn't be happy with a partner who went out that frequently, that late. It's just not compatible with what I want, which is a normal life, balancing having fun with working hard. Sounds like she has a second lease of life now that she's got this job and is doing well and is enjoying acting like she used to before you guys got together.

 

But you've told her you don't like it, and she's continued to do it. What does that say to you? She prioritises it over her marriage? Won't even compromise, such as one night with co workers per week only? I see trouble ahead, sorry.

[BlueBlood]

3 am? That's crazy. Someone once told me something like nothing good happens after midnight, in terms of parties and clubbing. That may or may not be true, but I think that as someone in a deeply committed relationship if my SO was out at clubs every week I'd be hurt, angry, and it would be a deal breaker. Her disregard of the op and their marriage is reckless and cold. Seriously? I don't know if I'd have stayed this long op.

 

I do want to add that your dislike of her coworkers maybe could have been tempered some? Like it's rare to find an entire group of people all so bad you outright despise them.. But here's a question for you: how would your wife react if you started joining her on these club hopping nights? Does she want you as part of her party sorority world?

[kgcolonel]

Me???? I'd be highly suspicious of behavior that would destroy a marriage. The worst part is that there are children involved here. Likely, OP is home watching the teens, keeping them out of trouble while the wife is setting an "excellent" example (sarcasm intended) for the young one.

 

Wonder how she would feel if he were doing the same thing????

[Gloria25]

The one reason - and only reason - I suggested he should be accommodating to her 'new-found identity' is for the purposes of "reverse psychology".

 

 

The more he pushes his point, insists on her curbing her ways and demonstrates his displeasure, the more he will drive her away.

If he at least plays it cool, tries to be flexible, and makes allowances for her change of mind-set, there is every likelihood and possibility that she too will become less insistent, more flexible and tolerant of his engagement with her....

 

The best way to attract someone, is to play it distant.

The best way he can convince her to stay, is to make her think she has "his blessing" to continue....

In time, if he doesn't lean on her too heavily, she will be persuaded by her own opinion, to modify her behaviour.

 

I see your point, but I just have a different approach. I believe you read him/her the Riot Act and then tell them to make a choice. Sometimes people respond better to strength and lying it all out for them.

 

The way you described (the reverse psychology) for me is like him making her think he's scared and is a pushover so he's letting her do whatever.

[TaraMaiden2]

It depends on his mood and attitude.

He can either LOOK like a scared rabbit caught in headlights, or "wave your hands in the air like you don't care..."

 

If you get my drift.

 

If I may say so, (and I'm not trying to push the spirituality point here, this is just my PoV) it often happens that when we object vociferously to someone else's behaviour, it is also a reflection of our own fears.

 

The OP is scared witless he's losing his wife, so he's acting out of a place of Fear.

Rejection, hostility towards whom he perceives as threats (her colleagues) resistance, control, anger, resentment - these are all the tendrils, the tentacles if you like, of an inner fear.

 

Once you apply a bit of inward reflection, and find the seat of this fear, you're better able to manifest its antidote....

[madjac74]

Ugh. Those sales jobs are bad news. She is probably snorting coke off strippers nipples. Did you see the wolf of wall street with leonardo decaprio?

[TaraMaiden2]

Ugh. Those sales jobs are bad news. She is probably snorting coke off strippers nipples. Did you see the wolf of wall street with leonardo decaprio?

 

 

Your wife has pretty much checked out of your marriage. She has decided that she wants to live like a single woman, not live like a wife and mother. There is pretty much nothing you can do about this other than accept it and hope that it is a temporary phase that she gets tired of.

 

If I were you, I would secretly see a divorce attorney. I think there is a very good chance that all of these nights out at the club will lead to infidelity, ....you should set things into motion that would enable you to defend yourself adequately should divorce become inevitable. .....

I think you also need to start watching her actions closely. Is she hiding her phone more often now? Maybe making new "guy friends" on social media? Does she suddenly seem more concerned than usual about her appearance? ...Either her libido has increased or decreased, or she is suddenly wanting you to try new things. ...Any of those behaviors can be signs of an affair. .....

 

So she's letting her hair down, enjoying her independence - and even trying to get her H involved (which HE sabotaged, mind - not her!) and suddenly, she's snorting coke and sleeping with the enemy??

 

You guys, talk about 1 + 1 making 39!

 

Jeesh, you slay me, you really do!

 

I can totally equate with what's happening here, because I went through the same experience - let me tell you, drugs and sleeping around were the LAST thing on my mind - I never had either the desire or the intention of going off the rails, drinking, cheating or leaving my marriage!

I just wanted to stretch, breathe and be myself again - the woman my H married, in fact!

 

If the OP would like to think back to a time when he was still courting his wife, wasn't she a younger expression of what she is now?

Before the kids, housework, and other domestic stuff - wasn't her high-spirited enjoyment of life, part of the attraction?

 

Would like to hear back from the OP at some point....

[TaraMaiden2]

Like usual, I am just speaking from my own experiences, and the experiences of people I know.

Yes, as am I..... I WAS that woman...

 

The OP's wife started out innocently enough, with the occasional hanging out with co-workers, no biggie. It has now progressed into her spending 2-4 nights out with her co-workers, and no longer at restaurants and friend's houses, but bars and clubs.

Yes, she's acting like the wayward teenager she left behind.

And we all know how teenagers react when we put our heavy foot down, lay down the law and TELL them what we want....

 

This problem is getting worse.

Indeed. And with every obviously good intention, the OP may be fuelling the problem... It's understandable he should react like that.

That does n't make it wise...

 

 

I am not saying his wife is definitely cheating or definitely will, but I do think she is possibly on the road to infidelity, especially with the comment about him being "controlling" just because he wants his wife to act like a wife, not a single girl.

You illustrate my point exactly.

Perfectly, in fact.

 

Picture it this way.

Put a blob of hand-cream in the palm of your hand, and squeeze it tight, to contain it.

All you're doing is ejecting it, pronto.

Fold your fingers around it closely, and you alter its coverage, but it doesn't go shooting off in all directions.

 

See?

One example of where a 'softly-softly' approach may actually be far more effective than an all-guns-blazing 'go see a lawyer, this one may be heading for a bad place'.

[puzzleddad67]

Wow. THANK YOU all. So much I have to make w Word document. I especially appreciate female viewpoints here. Looks like I messed up a bit in my writing and hope to clarify with my next paragraph. Going roughly in order of responses. Sorry it takes to long to get back. Weekends are for my family for me. I came in a few times briefly to look but mostly family. First I do note near unanimous agreement the quantity of going out is too high and too late. Not universal on my disdain for the who. Im a big boy, I can take it.

 

I also made a bit of an mistake there in my first post so hope to clarify. Disclosure: I go out with friends alone about three times a month. Usually fishing and usually Sunday afternoon for about three hours. I also fish with my kids, but I count that as family time. Both my son and daughter love fishing. I am extremely close to both of them. I have always taken my kids and wife places on weekends. Sometimes my wife goes, sometimes not though mostly not. She liked the time not being mom "shopping but not buying" at the mall and I LOVE being a dad so it worked for Saturday afternoons. The kids wanted to go to the park or fish and I make it a point to say yes as much as possible. Though now older, they still seem to be okay hanging around me some to many Saturdays. I think it is part of why me and my kids are so close. My wife has pretty much always had Sat night I reserved only for her and her alone. This new wanting to spend Sat nights without me has me confused. No I did not sneer at her coworkers, its more like I just could not get into their conversations about the latest tattoo, Kardashians (REALLY!?!), The bachelorette etc. So I sat back and did not participate. This group does not include upper management, so is not mandatory in any form. The group is the warehouse manager, my wife, workers, and clerical. Most are younger, maybe three are in their late thirties to forties and the warehouse manager is older.

 

Mrldii. I don’t think she would cheat. No I am not foolish to say it categorically since some of my friends were blindsided by their cheating wives. Still. Doubt it.

Colonel. PI? See above. Point taken on keeping my mouth shut, but I don’t think she is cheating.

Tara. MUCH thanks. Excellent idea and I did a bit of it until Sunday, but I have to act. (HOW???) Ill explain after all the responses.

Elswyth. See above about having to hang with them and my reaction to them. I just cant fake a conversation about their (coworkers) topics. Great idea about Saturdays reserved but she went out again Sat. Ill explain later.

Gloria. Well put. I have zero desire to replace my family time with others. I do my three times a month with friends more or less and that is it.

Across. I agree. Im trying to stop more trouble from happening.

Blueblood. I do not despise them. Simply, I find their conversations range from “don’t care” to “WTF” and could interact without actually showing dislike. I took the path that seemed best, Don’t interact, rather than disagree. If I had put myself into for example their conversation about the Kardashians (They like them), it would have been worse (I cant say anything good about them). Joining them… I don’t think I would be welcome by many of them including my wife.

Enigma. Im not seeing a divorce attorney. Im no pushover. Im a nice guy until you mess with my family or friends.

>I think you also need to start watching her actions closely.

Is she hiding her phone more often now? O The answer is no except once in July where she would not let me use her phone when mine died. I remember thinking it was odd. Its on the kitchen table every night.

Maybe making new "guy friends" on social media? Not really. A couple coworkers. Her FB is always up though.

Does she suddenly seem more concerned than usual about her appearance? Maybe she has started dieting or is now spending more time and money making sure she looks nice before she goes out.

She has always spent time on primping. No

Has her attitude in the bedroom changed? Either her libido has increased or decreased, or she is suddenly wanting you to try new things. Yes her attitude has. The new thing is her ass to me most nights on the far side of the bed. Sorry for the sarcasm. This seems related to our fighting though.

Any of those behaviors can be signs of an affair. Unfortunately, stories like yours usually end up in our infidelity forum, and then on to divorce.

Still don’t think its an affair. See above.<

 

Again thanks all. This is just getting worse. I kind of did what Tara suggested. I said nothing bad about her going out either night. I suggested a restaurant Sat night and got the news she is going out again. I just let it drop. I now have a worse problem: My daughter who is a Sr in HS. Mom is going out the door and my daughter rolls her eyes at mom and sarcastically said something like, “Going out with friends again? I’m the seventeen year old.” My wife wheeled around furious, accusing her of taking my side and how I was controlling her and did not want her to have a job or freedom (Something like that. Words a bit off but context correct). For the record. I am the one that found out about her job, emailed her about it, and even had my employers HR manager spruce up her resume to look better. My wife left in a huff and got back after four to spite me.

 

I told my daughter this is my fight. Her mood changed but she was still feisty. She asked how I could “Let mom diss you like that.” Uh boy. If daughter is in it now, my son is. They talk. This is bad and I need ideas. Sunday sucked too.

 

The only good news is she then told me there was a girl who wanted to go out with me Sat night, my little girl wanted to spend Sat night with her old man. I took HER to the restaurant. Im privileged to have such a dream of a daughter. Yep Im bragging about both my kids. Top 10 grades, solid goals. She told me all about everything going on in her life. At least that part is going very well. ß look I got to end on a good note.

[salparadise]

I now have a worse problem: My daughter who is a Sr in HS. Mom is going out the door and my daughter rolls her eyes at mom and sarcastically said something like, “Going out with friends again? I’m the seventeen year old.” My wife wheeled around furious, accusing her of taking my side...

 

Whew, what a mess. I certainly don't envy you. Sorry, I don't have a solution, but I strongly disagree that ignoring/cooperating/accommodating her new party girl lifestyle is an appropriate response. Something needs to change because in addition to the partying schedule, she is also alienating affection and destroying the marriage. And not only that, but in denial about the effect it's having overall.

 

I don't think it's just the new found freedom of having a job outside the house. I think something else is up. If it were just the novelty of being able to go out it probably wouldn't be nearly this extreme, there wouldn't be so much pushback, and the novelty would have probably worn off.

 

If I had to make a WAG (sales term for wild ass guess) I'd suspect cocaine or some kind of substance. A significant change in behavior/lifestyle like this almost certainly has something else behind it... the Kardashians just aren't interesting enough for that much sustained energy to go into it. I mean seriously, she's given up her family life for partying to the degree that you 17 year old is critical.

 

What to do? If I were in your shoes, I'd start by checking for anything that's incongruent with the story. How much money is she spending? How many miles is she traveling? Is her phone password protected, and do you have access to the call logs, or is she using a company phone? Do you know for a fact that she is where she says she is, with whom she claims to be when she's out?

 

I know you don't believe she'd cheat, but could your bias on this aspect simply be denial. If I were a private investigator I certainly wouldn't rule it out based on your thinking that she's not capable of it. Seven months ago you probably wouldn't have thought she'd be capable of saying out 'til 3-4am four nights a week either. Where I'm from last call is before 1:30 and bars are closed down by 2am. Do clubs stay open into the wee hours?

 

When I boil it down, there are only a few things I know of that might motivate a complete lifestyle reversal like this... drugs, sex, gambling or a psychological meltdown. I bet there are clues. What you're seeing is the smoke, not the fire.

Edited September 21, 2015 by salparadise

[TaraMaiden2]

.....Mom is going out the door and my daughter rolls her eyes at mom and sarcastically said something like, “Going out with friends again? I’m the seventeen year old.” My wife wheeled around furious, accusing her of taking my side and how I was controlling her and did not want her to have a job or freedom (Something like that. Words a bit off but context correct). For the record. I am the one that found out about her job, emailed her about it, and even had my employers HR manager spruce up her resume to look better. My wife left in a huff and got back after four to spite me.

 

I told my daughter this is my fight. Her mood changed but she was still feisty. She asked how I could “Let mom diss you like that.” Uh boy. If daughter is in it now, my son is. They talk. This is bad and I need ideas. Sunday sucked too.

 

Ugh. I will be the first to agree, that is NOT good.

When I found my 'family's all growed up now' freedom, I was in the slightly advantageous position of having an H who decided, entirely on his own, how to play things... and our kids never got involved at all. It didn't ever get to that or reach that point, because my 'time away from the domestic hamster-wheel' was PART time, and involved study, so the situation WAS a little different... I got to spend time with them. It was my H who felt things were slipping away from him....

 

 

The only good news is she then told me there was a girl who wanted to go out with me Sat night, my little girl wanted to spend Sat night with her old man. I took HER to the restaurant. Im privileged to have such a dream of a daughter. Yep Im bragging about both my kids. Top 10 grades, solid goals. She told me all about everything going on in her life. At least that part is going very well. ß look I got to end on a good note.

 

Well there's another angle...

Live your lives "like you don't care".... While I can see the right in telling your daughter this is NOT her fight - I'm not sure that's entirely true. If your kids are noticing, and they have an opinion, then it affects them, and they have a right to be involved, to an extent.... See, kids are perceptive, aren't they? They're not daft, (and your kids seem particularly bright, it seems!) and they don't like their mother's behaviour.

 

While we, as parents, like to think we can earn the respect of our children, it comes as a bit of a wake-up call when they catch glimpses of our "I'm an individual human too" and it's not always a pleasant show.

This is what they're learning about their mother.

 

Naturally, she's going to go on the defence, and blame you.

She obviously hasn't stopped to consider her kids have eyes, ears and a brain of their own to be able to sum up the situation...

 

Interesting that your daughter mentioned SHE was the 17-year-old.... I think I referred to your wife's behaviour as likened to that of an adolescent tearaway....

 

So what to do?

Maybe a bit of ostracism might work.

Don't include her for dinner, or family gatherings, don't consider her time at home as pertinent to being YOUR time at home. Do what you want, strut your own stuff and have fun (as and when appropriate and necessary) with your kids.

Don't be in when she comes home, don't ask how her day went, don't show any interest or care, and if she begins discussing anything to do with her job, change the subject....

 

 

Look. I'm just throwing in some suggestions here. I don't know whether they'll be right for you, or what you need to hear. I'm just tentatively putting forward strategies that might make her think a bit.

 

(And maybe you should revisit the 'lawyer' route, after all.... I'm not beyond admitting I might be incorrect.... )

[kgcolonel]

My heart truly goes out to you....I understand that you don't think she's cheating on you but even if there's not another person involved, she is cheating on the family and her reaction to her daughter is proof that her behavior is affecting the family and causing your daughter to lose respect for her mother. Your daughter is even picking up on the behavior.....she is supposed to be modeling for the daughter, the model she is presenting is not one of that of a caring wife and mother.

 

That being said, the vast majority of the BS's here never thought their WS would ever cheat but they did.....it would make sense that we wouldn't marry someone and make a family with someone that we thought would cheat.

 

It sounds as though things are pretty touchy around the household now....I stand by my suggestion of the need for a PI to see what is actually happening. I would also begin to really focus on activities with the kids that would normally include your wife, i.e. you say you like fishing. Plan a family fishing trip, invite your wife. If she choses her work friends over the family, then so be it but come back with excitement of the weekend and stories of how the family has built lasting memories etc. Maybe she'll see that she is missing out here and see the light. This also should be done in parallel with the PI as when you and the kids are out of town as she (if she is up to no good) will likely show her activities more openly.

 

Again, I am very sorry you're in this situation.

[puzzleddad67]

 

What to do? If I were in your shoes, I'd start by checking for anything that's incongruent with the story. How much money is she spending? How many miles is she traveling? Is her phone password protected, and do you have access to the call logs, or is she using a company phone? Do you know for a fact that she is where she says she is, with whom she claims to be when she's out?

 

When I boil it down, there are only a few things I know of that might motivate a complete lifestyle reversal like this... drugs, sex, gambling or a psychological meltdown. I bet there are clues. What you're seeing is the smoke, not the fire.

 

I checked our money situation. It appears normal. She could be using some but nothing out of the ordinary. Her car appears to be racking up only slightly above average miles. Her phone is not password protected. Call log is normal.

 

I can not prove where she is except that it is not significantly farther than normal. I have seen facebook pictures for some of the nights.

 

She was nicer, sort of, starting Monday. She calmly told me she loves me as the father of the children but she is not sure that she loves me as a husband. That was very hard to hear. She said again I did not support her job. When I pointed out I helped get her the job, she accused me of tricking her. Im just kind of worn out, got up and left at that point. If you keep saying 1+1=3, eventually Ill simply let you be wrong. Shes pretty much ignoring me now. Oddly Im developing this weird detachment I cant explain other than Im not going to beg her to love me.

 

I had to remind my daughter that this is my fight. Ive never seen her so determined this way. An odd part is, it is driving me closer to my kids, especially my daughter. Proud father. I have to admit, Im a proud dad. I see fight and determination in her eyes. She says it is her fight. I tell her its not. We go round and round. Smart feisty young woman. I disagree with her but she holds her own.

 

I have taken precautions and moved some money into much less portable accounts with withdrawal limits in case its drugs or gambling. It does not look like that, but simple precaution seems wise.

[kgcolonel]

I am very sorry that you are going through this but I think you are being wise.

[salparadise]

I think you're being wise too, and I'm sure it must be terribly difficult and emotionally exhausting.

 

Sounds like she's doubling down on the rationalization and entitlement. How can she possibly try to pass this off as "the job?" Warehouse manager and office staff- really?

 

Are you seeing a therapist? If not it might be a good time to start. Doesn't sound like it's going in the right direction. Stay tight with the kids and take excellent care of yourself. Wishing better things for you in the future.

[Diezel]

Time to go see a lawyer.

[kgcolonel]

I still think planning family activities and inviting your wife is a way to go here. I would make sure that you email her to ensure you have documented the fact that you're not trying to alienate her in writing for possible need should the need arise. If she declines so be it, you and the rest of the family go and have fun without her as she is making her choice.

 

I would also ask her "what would supporting you look like" and have her be specific in telling you in her words. This will also tell you what it is that she wants in a M and family. This behavior is not only depriving you of the wife you love but also her children of their mother.

 

Her stating that you don't support her is an excuse to continue to behave irrationally. The more irrationally the behavior you see the greater it will grow and create irreparable damage not only between you and her but also between her and the children as they are already very much aware of her activity and choices over them.