Am I being unreasonable?

[bachdude]

Sigh.....Yes, she's checked out of the marriage. She's told you she doesn't love you as her husband. What more evidence do you need that she is either ready to leave or seriously contemplating it? If she was interested in keeping the marriage, why would she act so carelessly and be jeopardizing the relationship? She wouldn't. It's the behavior of someone who just doesn't care.

 

 

Having said that, I think that eventually, when the allure of whatever it is wears off, she will probably realize how she squandered what she had. I've seen it happen. So there is still hope.

 

 

You may want to consider a separation. Move out, rent another place and give your kids the choice of where to live. They need to see you be strong. Let you wife get a taste of what life will be like if she continues down her path. It just might shock her back to reality.

Edited September 24, 2015 by bachdude

[puzzleddad67]

Taking the kids to a local festival tomorrow. Invited wife and kids. Wife declined. Kids accepted.

 

Im getting better. I wont force anyone to be with me. When she declined and told me she was going out tonight, I gave a simple shrug and walked away with no emotion. Kids have both noticed her bad behavior and support me. I appreciate their support but keep having to remind them its my battle. Still. This would be MUCH harder without their support. Life is funny how Im now getting back all the support I gave them all their early childhood years.

 

As for separation. If Im a problem, SHE can move out. The bulk of the money is safe and secure.

[kgcolonel]

Taking the kids to a local festival tomorrow. Invited wife and kids. Wife declined. Kids accepted.

 

Im getting better. I wont force anyone to be with me. When she declined and told me she was going out tonight, I gave a simple shrug and walked away with no emotion. Kids have both noticed her bad behavior and support me. I appreciate their support but keep having to remind them its my battle. Still. This would be MUCH harder without their support. Life is funny how Im now getting back all the support I gave them all their early childhood years.

 

As for separation. If Im a problem, SHE can move out. The bulk of the money is safe and secure.

 

Be sure an come back with all kinds of stories of the great times you and the kids had at the festival.

 

I truly hate to say this but it really looks like she is not only checking out of the marriage but also from the family and kids. I still believe a PI would be a good idea to get a better idea of what you're up against. Please think about it.

[puzzleddad67]

Just. Damn.

Last night, my son asked me why mom has another phone. He saw it when we came back Saturday as he was first in the door and went upstairs.

I googled it. Shes most likely cheating. Is there any other explanation?

 

I asked him to not mention it to anyone.

Im so ****ing stupid. Many of you were right.

Just. Dammit.

[kgcolonel]

I am very sorry you are in this situation....from what I have read here, the best results are to wait and not disclose what you know until you have a more complete set of what is actually happening. Terrible thing here.

[puzzleddad67]

Ive been reading this and another site for half a day now. The other one has what pretty much is a to do list. It mentions my mouth shut and my eyes open and a bunch of tech stuff. I get it. Its hard as I want to call her and demand explanation. I know that would get me nowhere now.

 

Im just so angry right now. Productivity going to sh**. I just need to no emotion and get it done.

[kgcolonel]

you should stay focused on the kids and activities. If you can, get a PI and let him / her do their job. Insulate the kids from this as much as you can but is appears as though your WW has made things obvious to everyone where she stands with her priorities.

[salparadise]

Just. Damn.

Last night, my son asked me why mom has another phone. He saw it when we came back Saturday as he was first in the door and went upstairs.

I googled it. Shes most likely cheating. Is there any other explanation?

 

I asked him to not mention it to anyone.

Im so ****ing stupid. Many of you were right.

Just. Dammit.

 

Ouch, sorry. I know that must be terribly painful.

 

It was the logical explanation for the behavior. I am glad to hear that you are pursuing the rational course and not confronting before having solid evidence. Don't lose your cool and let it slip in the course of an argument.

 

I agree with kgcolonel- hire the PI and let him get irrefutable proof. The proof you will need depends on which state you live in. If you're in a no fault state, proof is mostly for you, and to keep her from being able to continue denying it. But if not, then you'll need a higher level of proof so that you can file a fault divorce. If you can prove fault to the legal standard it may affect property division and preclude alimony. And if you're lucky you may be able to get the concessions you want without dragging it through court.

 

Unfortunately, conclusive evidence to that degree is difficult to obtain. You basically need an eye-witness or photographs of them in the act. Documenting them entering and exiting a motel would be conclusive for you, but probably not sufficient proof in court.

 

I think it will be important to at least take away her ability to flat out deny it. You may be able to get concessions to avoid presenting the evidence publicly regardless of whether it meet the burden of proof for the court.

 

Stay tight with the kids- they're going to figure this out eventually and they need one parent they can believe in wholeheartedly.

Edited September 28, 2015 by salparadise

[PinkInTheLimo]

Just reading this topic. Sorry it is unfolding the way it does. If there is someone else, she's pretty reckless; she's not hiding that she is checking out.

 

Play it cool, be rational not emotional.

 

What I am wondering about. Is this the first job your wife has since a long time, or is it just a change of job? I am asking because I am wondering why all this happened all of a sudden?

[kgcolonel]

Puzzleddad, how you doing? I have been thinking about your situation and hope you and the kids are doing well.

[puzzleddad67]

KG. Thanks for your concern. Im doing. Odd. On one hand a GIANT weight was lifted from my shoulders. She is cheating and I am NOT crazy. On the other. Im pretty sure my marriage is done with and I am going to destroy the life my kids know and love. For lack of a better term, she is no longer special to me. Kind of like a great steak someone else spit on. Technically its still a great steak, but its tainted. Yea, I know, bad me for the attitude but it is what it is.

I mentioned a to do list from another site. I used it and basically I went spy crazy. I got into her email and ran a Voice Activated Recorder. Emails were deleted but she forgot the sent box and the emails all quoted past emails enough to get the idea. Looks like the affair started early June in earnest. Before that, the OM is constantly feeding her crap about how I dont pay enough attention and I dont deserve her and crap like that. The warehouse manager was actively encouraging it all. She is friends or something with the OM. He is on the warehouse manager's FB but not my wifes. hearing your own wife disrespect me on voice activated recorder to her lover and wing woman wasnt much of a help to my mind.

One email talked how she was going to say she was going out on Friday with them, but was going to meet him at his place and needed them to cover for her. My good friend was waiting at his house across the street DSLR in hand in his SUV. He got me several pictures, one of which showed her greeting/making out with him at the door, upset me a ton and I kind of went off when I got it later.

Two hours in his house later they went to a bar. Not cool of me but when I got the picture around 11 Friday night, I facebook posted the picture of her making out on her wall then tagged the OM. "A picture of my wife. But not of me" (or something) She got home after four and gave me ass to me treatment. Its the one time I was glad she did. Again. Uncool move on my part I know, but it felt kind of good when I did it. Im not a turn the cheek kind of man. After I posted it, my phone blew up with calls. Im sure hers did also.

Yes I saw a lawyer late last week. Its fortunate she is now earning a good portion of what I do or the alimony would have been brutal. Im pretty sure Im divorcing. No I have not filed or retained. My daughter and son both are furious and not talking to her and of course they are just part of me trying to control her. Her only words to me were to the effect on Saturday that she is not sure what she needs and needs to figure out her feelings. Apparently cheating lowered her IQ. "Welcome" is not tattooed on my forehead and I am not a f****** door mat. Sunday she ignored me and the kids. She went out Saturday night and oddly, it affected me less than Friday.

 

Sorry it rambles. Im sure I forgot a lot but my mind is a mess.

[kgcolonel]

PD,

 

I am very sorry this is happening to you and to your family. I believe you are going down the right path. Maybe if you were to go ahead and file for D, (you can always stall if you so chose depending on the reaction from your WW) this would help your WW determine what she wants, (if that even still matters to you). I don't know if you would or could take her back to attempt R, only you know that. It appears that she has also dug a deep hole with the kids. What kind of foundation did she have with them before all this misbehavior began?

 

Also, it might be beneficial to go ahead and file while she is still employed and earning a good income as if she were to either quit or lose her job, the alimony equation would shift. Depending on how conniving she is, quiting now and divorcing and then returning to a well paying job would put her in a much better position.

 

Again, I am very sorry for you and your family. Don't leave the house or the kids and follow the directions of your attorney.

[kgcolonel]

PD, you hanging in there?

 

We're here to allow you to vent if needed.

 

Be cool and smart.

 

Love the kiddos!!

[kgcolonel]

PD, you hanging in there?

 

We're here to allow you to vent if needed.

 

Be cool and smart.

 

Love the kiddos!!

[PaperCrane]

Her only words to me were to the effect on Saturday that she is not sure what she needs and needs to figure out her feelings. Apparently cheating lowered her IQ. "Welcome" is not tattooed on my forehead and I am not a f****** door mat. Sunday she ignored me and the kids. She went out Saturday night and oddly, it affected me less than Friday.

 

Wow. Just wow. She pulled a line used in the early months of dating as the reason to why she's upending a marriage, a life and creating havoc for her children?

 

Yeah, don't let her get any claws into you during this process. Stonewall her. You need to protect everything you have as you'll most likely be taking the kids.

 

Make sure you get all that evidence into court about the adultery. The judge may go way easier on you for certain things because of that.

 

Best of luck, this is a terrible situation.

[puzzleddad67]

It appears she has filed for divorce ahead of me. At least she says she did. I have not been served. Strangely, I think she is doing me a favor. As she tears at all that connects us, it makes the separating easier. My lawyer says the judge we will get is a straight by the book judge who will go by straight formulas unless one of us plays games. I am to make no unusual purchases or money moves as it will cost me dearly.

Im in a state where she could have sex with him in front of the judge and it would make zero difference. I am keeping my evidence of her affair for the simple purpose of making sure she can not spin it into anything but an affair.

My in-laws learned Wednesday. I got a call. Basically it was a good bye. Her mom says I am like the son she never had but they will be supporting their daughter, not with the affair but they are keeping out of it. She was crying and I know its hard on her. Im fine with this and expect nothing else from them. She IS their daughter and they made clear they dont support the affair, just their daughter.

Her work friends support her. Big surprise. Ive learned just how good my couple friends are. I have three offers of housing if needed, two spare bedrooms and one offer of an entire lower level of a mother/daughter. Interestingly I get the impression two of the offers are pushed by the wives (both spouses were on the call. No I dont talk to other mens wives alone.). The wife of my good friend gave me an earful about cheating women are evil. She was much more adamant than he was. I also have offers of dinners etc.

My daughter went nuclear when she overheard her mom talking about the divorce. I had to stand between them. I learned my daughter has a filthy mouth when she wants. I reminded her this is my fight. She finally stormed off. My son is simply ignoring her.

The only "Good news" is she has a new account and her income is even closer to mine that I knew.

[puzzleddad67]

Oh and the OM used his work email to support the affair (and work phone?). Im working on that angle.

 

Ive read here and elsewhere to live well. I intend to. After I take out his job. He does not work for her company so it wont affect her income.

[PinkInTheLimo]

Interestingly I get the impression two of the offers are pushed by the wives (both spouses were on the call. No I dont talk to other mens wives alone.).

 

Married women are afraid as hell that their hubby might get ideas when they see the freedom of their newly divorced friend. They will do everything to avoid that hubby would hang out in bars together with the divorced friend so they invite the divorced friend.

 

The single female friends of the couple (as far as they ever had them) are treated as a pariah on the other hand. For fear that they might seduce the hubby. What they don't realise is that the single female friends usually find the hubby unattractive esp. since he is totally under the thumb of his wife .

 

There is a reason why single women lose their girlfriends once they are married but single guys keep the friendship with their married male friends.

 

You'll be fine, PD, much better than a freshly divorced woman with children.

[puzzleddad67]

Married women are afraid as hell that their hubby might get ideas when they see the freedom of their newly divorced friend. They will do everything to avoid that hubby would hang out in bars together with the divorced friend so they invite the divorced friend.

 

The single female friends of the couple (as far as they ever had them) are treated as a pariah on the other hand. For fear that they might seduce the hubby. What they don't realise is that the single female friends usually find the hubby unattractive esp. since he is totally under the thumb of his wife .

 

There is a reason why single women lose their girlfriends once they are married but single guys keep the friendship with their married male friends.

 

You'll be fine, PD, much better than a freshly divorced woman with children.

Does me not being a cheater and her being a cheater have anything to do with it? I kind of wondered if they viewed her as a straying threat.

 

I got a message on FB from someone I didnt know. (FB friend of FB friend so he saw my dumb post on FB outing her and him.) He says he lost his wife to this same guy though she is no longer with him. Married women are apparently my wifes OM's MO. Had a lunch with the guy from FB at a local place. His story was scary similar. He is two years out though. Divorced. Cool guy actually. Total dad to his kids. Kept talking about them and saying mine will be fine.

Weekend was quiet. My wife was ignored by kids. No blow ups. She went out and I was oddly disconnected from it. Odd how once you accept reality, the mind begins to plot the future under the new conditions. Im more concerned about my kids.

[kgcolonel]

PD,

 

How are you holding up buddy?

[puzzleddad67]

PD,

 

How are you holding up buddy?

 

Oddly. Okay. For me, I'm good. I get that bad pit of the stomach feeling when I think of my kids. My soon to be ex is ironically doing me a favor by tearing "us" apart herself.

 

I got served. She wants zero alimony. It's all business with her now. We already have an outline of division from last night after I got served. The house gets sold and split etc. We would spend more on lawyers if we fought and she seems to realize it. Appears she is now making near what I am, and I suspect thinks she will be making more. Fine by me. I want nothing of her or from her. She wants 50/50 kids. Not sure how that will work out.

 

Looks like I get to keep all our "couple friends", even the wives are on my side which I find odd. Guess I was wrong about women only back women. The wives seem angry at my soon to be ex. Guess Pink above is correct. I'll take a bunch of professionals over her bar lot any day of the week. Been invited golfing more than usual. Have dinner offers and even temp housing offers.

 

I think the wives want to set me up with their single friends. Weird.

 

Best part: I GOT THAT SOB OM! Cost me a couple grand and my lawyer was totally against it but in my state you can file for fault. Wont do anything with division or alimony but you can. I had him draft a letter voluntarily asking for phone records and emails from him to my wife... They fired his ass for using company time and equipment. Got an earful from my soon to be ex about it. (I'm picking on him. Awwww.) Completely worth every penny. I dont care what they say about taking the high road. Revenge is very sweet. We have now withdrawn the request from them. My lawyer got a call from them to the effect of "Message received." It gives me this sense of closure. He won the war but it was 100 to 1 his favor not 100 to nothing.

 

More good news: This weekend. Golf if the weather cooperates with friends.

 

Good news in an odd way. He is very distant but my son is talking to his mom again. Daughter not so much but this is MY fight, not hers. I just hope it teaches her the value of loyalty.

[oldshirt]

Puzzleddad, I've read this whole thread since last night and one thing has really struck me as being vastly different from all the other threads where guys find out their wives are cheating -

 

- Actually there are a couple things that venture far from the norm -

 

- #1. You seem quite calm and resolved, almost even like you are looking forward to moving on to the next chapter in your life.

 

-#2. Your wife shows no regret or remorse since getting caught and has quickly followed through and filed for divorce.

 

-#3. Instead of throwing pots and pans at each other or one of you pleading to reconcile and "work it out," You both seem to be working cooperatively to settle the business matters and move forward with the D and move on with your lives.

 

 

I'm not saying any of this is bad per se but the vast majority of the BS s that come on her are devastated and pleading for their spouse to end the A.

 

And the vast majority of the WS s we see here are stricken with apologies and plead to not be thrown out.

 

 

So I have to ask because I really want to know - what was the state of your marriage before you discovered her adultry??????

 

I know you said she was your best friend and biking buddy, but how connected and in love were you?? I know that's a subjective question with no objective answer, but you seem remarkably OK with this. What was your state before the discovery of the A..

 

I'll be blunt, were you yourself dissatisfied with the M and were you having thoughts of moving on yourself?

 

We're you having any fantasy or daydreams of being a free and single man?

 

Was a tiny part of you way deep down kinda hoping that she would drop the ball somehow and give you a justifiable reason to divorce and move on?

 

I'm not judging or saying any of that is either right or wrong, just wondering where your head and your heart were really at before all of this started going down.

[bachdude]

Puzzleddad, I've read this whole thread since last night and one thing has really struck me as being vastly different from all the other threads where guys find out their wives are cheating -

 

- Actually there are a couple things that venture far from the norm -

 

- #1. You seem quite calm and resolved, almost even like you are looking forward to moving on to the next chapter in your life.

 

-#2. Your wife shows no regret or remorse since getting caught and has quickly followed through and filed for divorce.

 

-#3. Instead of throwing pots and pans at each other or one of you pleading to reconcile and "work it out," You both seem to be working cooperatively to settle the business matters and move forward with the D and move on with your lives.

 

 

I'm not saying any of this is bad per se but the vast majority of the BS s that come on her are devastated and pleading for their spouse to end the A.

 

And the vast majority of the WS s we see here are stricken with apologies and plead to not be thrown out.

 

 

So I have to ask because I really want to know - what was the state of your marriage before you discovered her adultry??????

 

I know you said she was your best friend and biking buddy, but how connected and in love were you?? I know that's a subjective question with no objective answer, but you seem remarkably OK with this. What was your state before the discovery of the A..

 

I'll be blunt, were you yourself dissatisfied with the M and were you having thoughts of moving on yourself?

 

We're you having any fantasy or daydreams of being a free and single man?

 

Was a tiny part of you way deep down kinda hoping that she would drop the ball somehow and give you a justifiable reason to divorce and move on?

 

I'm not judging or saying any of that is either right or wrong, just wondering where your head and your heart were really at before all of this started going down.

 

I think he does care, or he wouldn't have spent the $2,000 for revenge. If he didn't care about what just happened to him, he wouldn't have done so, against the advice of his lawyer.

 

It was very risky, OP, because it can come back to haunt you, especially when it comes to custody. I hope your ex doesn't take some revenge on you during that process. I hope not, for your sake.

Edited October 16, 2015 by bachdude

[oldshirt]

I think he does care, or he wouldn't have spent the $2,000 for revenge. If he didn't care about what just happened to him, he wouldn't have done so, against the advice of his lawyer.

 

It w.

 

I'm not saying he doesn't care or that he isn't significantly impacted by this. Divorce is disruptive and costly for everyone.

 

What I am saying is he doesn't appear to be devastated or heartbroken or desperate to get things back to where they were like so many other BSs are.

 

His STBX is also displaying a different set of behaviors than we typically see here on LS. most of the WS s that we see and hear about are almost equally devastated upon discovery and many plead for reconciliation and spew a stream of apologies and plead to not be kicked out of the house.

 

This gal got confronted one day and went to the lawyer shortly thereafter.

 

In this instance neither party is asking for reconciliation and neither is displaying extreme anger or sorrow or heartbreak etc etc and both of them are sitting down and discussing division of assets like business partners discussing distribution of company assets.

 

Makes me wonder what the state of the marriage was before all this started.

[TaraMaiden2]

I think he does care, or he wouldn't have spent the $2,000 for revenge. If he didn't care about what just happened to him, he wouldn't have done so, against the advice of his lawyer.

 

It was very risky, OP, because it can come back to haunt you, especially when it comes to custody. I hope your ex doesn't take some revenge on you during that process. I hope not, for your sake.

 

I would think the kids themselves may have something to say about that. They're just about at the age when they might be in a position to file a statement themselves...

 

I don't know precisely how divorces and custody issues play in the USA, but if they're remotely anything like laws in the UK, the offspring have reached an age where they have a full say in what their wishes are....