From Unwitting OW to Open Relationship to Disaster

[Adoraxx]

Very good yodel, that you're not back into the A. I don't post much either but I read here quite often and then at other times I take a little break from reading.

 

Hugs!!

[privategal]

I wish I could take a break. The site is the only understanding I have, its both comforting and excruciating here. Not sure how I will ever move on until I stop reading. But I cant seem to yet.

But Yodel you are normal, and strong, and you are healing and theres no correct way or length of time.

At least you didnt push it all down and ugnore the pain while it grows inside.

You are facing it head on.

Tears arent weak, they are actually quite scientific, the body can no longer hold the buildup of emotion in so its a cleansing in a way. I think tears are beautiful even though it hurts us to be crying...its actually healing more than anything. The pain is going to pass. Matter of time. Good job on everything.

[yodelwithyu]

I wish I could take a break. The site is the only understanding I have, its both comforting and excruciating here. Not sure how I will ever move on until I stop reading. But I cant seem to yet.

But Yodel you are normal, and strong, and you are healing and theres no correct way or length of time.

At least you didnt push it all down and ugnore the pain while it grows inside.

You are facing it head on.

Tears arent weak, they are actually quite scientific, the body can no longer hold the buildup of emotion in so its a cleansing in a way. I think tears are beautiful even though it hurts us to be crying...its actually healing more than anything. The pain is going to pass. Matter of time. Good job on everything.

 

Thanks for the words of encouragement, but I am not doing good at anything right now. I am so out of it, I wrote two paragraphs and thought I mentioned it, but after reading your reply, clearly I did not.

 

I technically broke NC about almost three days ago. I called through VIOP so my number wouldn’t have showed up. I didn’t say anything. I just listened to his voice say hello for almost two minutes. I did this last time too, and without checking the actual days, I am pretty sure around the same mark of time…day forty something. I am not beating myself up about it this time, probably due to the fact that I keep myself sedated almost always, except at work where I don’t have a moment to even grab a drink of water. I’m not even worried about being help accountable here, which is unlike me. I don’t really remember a whole lot anyway, because I went out to dinner for my mom’s birthday that evening and had a glass of wine. Which must have turned into a few because I met up with friends afterwards. I guess I didn’t think about my newfound relationship with valium, and my rekindled relationship with starvation, during that first glass of wine. I assume it all went downhill from there. I woke up with a major headache and went back to sleep. I slept a total of sixteen hours. I still had a headache when I woke up the second time. It was one of those headaches that makes you believe that too much drinking for sure causes brain damage.

 

So anyway, I am annoyed that he probably knew it was me and got an ego boost. But I will rather look at it like I reminded him I exist, in case he was carrying merrily with his life. So yeah, I am the loser that got tricked into a fake relationship and can’t let go of a scumbag, and I now tread a thin line of self-medicating/becoming an addict so I don’t go back to feeling like I was in September. So I am not really concerned about NC numbers at the moment, because the fact of the matter is that I haven’t seen him in six months, and the days all blend together anyway. I think of keeping myself sedated like how doctors sometimes keep patients in a coma so their body doesn’t go into shock from pain. I know that is super f**ked up, but it is what it is. I am not advocating this for anyone. I am just trying to survive.

 

So…all in all, I am not doing anything right, but at least until three days ago I didn’t have the desire to break NC, as I don’t have much desire for anything at the moment. In fact, I am doing exactly the wrong things, and I am such a fraud at work. I have waited for this opportunity forever, and now, when my clients say to me “I just want to give up trying, I am so exhausted,” I wasn’t to say “me too.” but instead I tell them about all this BS about life being beautiful that I don’t believe. I have been offered a full time position with the most preeminent psychiatrist in the country, which would have in all likelihood allowed me to earn my doctorate, but I have declined as I myself should be his patient, currently. It was stupid of me to have taken the offer to be trained by him in the first place. But he saw something in me, which he didn’t know I guess was the last of my light.

 

Damn. It reads as bad as it is. I wish I gave the update on my super crap coping methods before I broke NC. Now it is just so much boohoo blah blah. WTF. I feel such a gross drama queen.

 

In summation; sedation every day, bordering on abuse, starvation bordering on anorexia and making the decision to step away from a life changing opportunity I was ready for right before I met B, but have not been since.

 

But I don’t want to be in a relationship with him or love him. I want to nothing him, even if it means that I destroy myself in the meantime.

 

"It's a picture perfect evening and I'm staring down the sun. Fully loaded, deaf and dumb and done. Waiting for sedation to disconnect my head, or any situation where I'm better off than dead."

-Elliott Smith

Edited March 27, 2016 by yodelwithyu

[yodelwithyu]

There's a song which really resonated with me between the first NC and the second, when I was the long distance EAP. But lately I have seen so many on this subforum lately that are in the midst of break ups, figuring out that maybe they feel a bit differently or just at the cusp of ending it. Now that it is over for me, the line "I don't need you like I used to," actually makes me happy when I hear it. I hope you get there too. I know I am poster child of how not to behave, but I have hit acceptance. I guess I am just not taking it gracefully. At all.

 

The music, not the lyrics, is a little wishy-washy, blahish until you get to about 1:35. But the lyrics throughout the song are spot on. Enjoy:

 

I can't wait anymore

If you choose me,

I could choose you.

Or nothing at all,

I don't need you

Like I used to.

-Daniel Wilson

[Ophelia25]

 

But I don’t want to be in a relationship with him or love him. I want to nothing him, even if it means that I destroy myself in the meantime.

 

 

I like this.

[yodelwithyu]

It has been a strange month. I mean on top of the whole strange year. I can’t believe I am about to post this, but here goes…

 

So LS has provided me with more insight, support, a great friendship and knowledge than I could have possibly gotten anywhere else. For all of you who have private messaged me in the last month or so, I cannot tell you what I difference it has made. To be heard. To be thought of. By strangers on the internet. This is the first forum I have actively participated in, so sometimes I feel as thought I am still finding my place and my online being. But what I do know is that on particularly dark days, when I have logged on and seen a PM just sharing or asking how I am, especially from people I have not previously interacted with, there is a ray of light. You know who you are. Thank you!

 

I’ve always been a person who hated if anyone disliked me unless I had done something heinous to deserve it or the feeling was mutual. I guess I have always been insecure, and also because I am a reflection of my mother. In any case, I never thought it would reach a level that is has, and I am wondering how much a role this whole fiasco has to play in it.

 

This is going to sound passive aggressive, and it is not meant to at all. I am just wondering if anyone else has felt the same. So I interacted with a couple of people enough to PM, and suddenly, they just stopped replying or posting on my thread. I let a few weeks pass in each instance and sent a PM asking if I had done anything to offend them, with no answer from either, at different time intervals, though both are pretty actively posting on LS. So that has been playing round and round my head as I have either offended them so much that they don’t even want to PM me back or that I am so pathetic that they don’t even want to deal with/know me. And both make me feel terrible about myself. I know it is the internet, and all that, but it is strange to me to start building a friendship of sorts and people just ghost you. My self esteem has taken such a beating, that I think about what I could have possibly said to make these people start ignoring me. Has anyone else felt this way before, or am I truly THAT lost and insecure?

 

Again, it is not meant to be passive aggressive, as I am probably on the ignore list of those people. And if you are anything like me, I think all passive aggressive social media posts could be about me, so I will save you the trouble; if you haven’t received a “have I done/said something to offend you?” PM or if you are a lady, it isn’t you!!

 

I have so many posts built up inside me, but I feel strange to post because of this. I keep wondering am I really that terrible or insufferable that I scared people away online? I know that the OWs generally avoid posting when there has been a breach in NC, but I have been feeling so insecure about posting for scaring away the other people I am actually in touch with! I understand that I am being completely unhealthy in my approach at the moment…but still.

 

I have been in a really bad head space the last three days as I am back in the apartment in which I have not been since I left in September. It was my last stop after leaving exMM at the airport but before heading home. And was only a few days before I started this thread. Being here has been an experience to say the least, so probably safe to say a lot of the bottled up “posts” inside might come pouring out in the next few days.

 

PS. I haven’t really thought about the time a few weeks ago when I called and said nothing, mostly because I don’t remember very much, I think, but it didn’t set me back to zero. In fact, I feel like it gave me more strength. If he didn’t hear my pain though my silence, and nothing has changed, I know my place much better now. Again. I am not counting days, mostly because math is my enemy, but I have to check an app, which I check every few weeks or so. I will stick my original NC day, which puts me in the sixties, I believe.

[heartwhole]

I have never PMed you, so I will jump in here. I think it's great that you have gotten so much support from LS, and it's best to leave it at that. Some relationships just peter out. Some people just don't approach friendship the same way that we do.

 

This made me think of an old colleague and friend of mine. She would always vent to me that several of her friends had complained that she is a bad friend for not keeping in touch, and she just didn't see it. I always listened sympathetically and told her, how strange! You are a good friend! She went through a terrible time when her husband attempted suicide and she had support a disabled, disfigured, and depressed person, and I was her go-to person if she ever needed to just leave. I had the room ready.

 

So fast forward a few years and since we don't work together any more, we see each other about once a season. This summer I confided in her about my husband's affair, and she was shocked and horrified. And then . . . I didn't hear from her for six months. Not a peep. Not a a text, not an email, nothing. So I thought, "A ha! THIS is why your friends are always complaining that you are a bad friend!" I still love her and care about her, but obviously she and I have different expectations of friendship. So now I know not to depend upon her as my "go-to person." I guess I could be bitter or confront her about this like others have, but I have a lot of other good friendships in place in my life. I know that you can't force these things.

 

So in your case, I would just thank the universe, thank the people behind these PMs, for the time in your life when they did support you and add to your life. But I would accept that they, for whatever their reasons are (and let's give them the benefit of the doubt that it's not that you have suddenly become anathema to them, but that they just can't write that many PMs every day and their focus is elsewhere and it is what it is), they're not the ones to do that in your life today. I would therefore put my energy into the relationships that seem to be reciprocated in a way that you appreciate.

 

People getting busy or forgetting to reply to a PM or whatnot is NOT a reflection on you. You are worth more than your words on this forum. Remember that, honor that, feed that. And take the positive energy of sharing and friendship that you've found here, and apply to your IRL relationships as well. Some relationships start strong but peter out. Others build slowly but only strengthen over time. Do your best not to internalize the ones that don't work out as being anything to do with your self-worth.

[yodelwithyu]

I have never PMed you, so I will jump in here. I think it's great that you have gotten so much support from LS, and it's best to leave it at that. Some relationships just peter out. Some people just don't approach friendship the same way that we do.

 

This made me think of an old colleague and friend of mine. She would always vent to me that several of her friends had complained that she is a bad friend for not keeping in touch, and she just didn't see it. I always listened sympathetically and told her, how strange! You are a good friend! She went through a terrible time when her husband attempted suicide and she had support a disabled, disfigured, and depressed person, and I was her go-to person if she ever needed to just leave. I had the room ready.

 

So fast forward a few years and since we don't work together any more, we see each other about once a season. This summer I confided in her about my husband's affair, and she was shocked and horrified. And then . . . I didn't hear from her for six months. Not a peep. Not a a text, not an email, nothing. So I thought, "A ha! THIS is why your friends are always complaining that you are a bad friend!" I still love her and care about her, but obviously she and I have different expectations of friendship. So now I know not to depend upon her as my "go-to person." I guess I could be bitter or confront her about this like others have, but I have a lot of other good friendships in place in my life. I know that you can't force these things.

 

So in your case, I would just thank the universe, thank the people behind these PMs, for the time in your life when they did support you and add to your life. But I would accept that they, for whatever their reasons are (and let's give them the benefit of the doubt that it's not that you have suddenly become anathema to them, but that they just can't write that many PMs every day and their focus is elsewhere and it is what it is), they're not the ones to do that in your life today. I would therefore put my energy into the relationships that seem to be reciprocated in a way that you appreciate.

 

People getting busy or forgetting to reply to a PM or whatnot is NOT a reflection on you. You are worth more than your words on this forum. Remember that, honor that, feed that. And take the positive energy of sharing and friendship that you've found here, and apply to your IRL relationships as well. Some relationships start strong but peter out. Others build slowly but only strengthen over time. Do your best not to internalize the ones that don't work out as being anything to do with your self-worth.

 

Thanks for your post, Heartwhole. Your experience with your friend is exactly what I am talking about and afraid of. A year and a half ago, I could tell you who I was, even if the edges were blurry, but I have been having a hard time recognizing myself for the last year, that I fear I am being super self UNaware, like your friend. I am sorry you went through that, by the way. That sounds really crappy and very painful to go through, regardless. Especially when you were already in pain.

 

I know people handle things differently, and while I have always been sensitive to rejection, it has never felt like this. I guess that was more the purpose of my post…how much more rejected and dejected I feel wondering if I became more sensitive to all of it because of the constant state of rejection I found myself in.

 

It doesn’t take away even in the slightest from all that I have gotten back from LS, and it could never, I guess I am just feeling insecure about posting my ramblings. I did at one point hope that it can help someone someday, but then when I have been a complete mess, I had hoped that the someone someday would see what NOT to do. I guess part of why I felt I should post about being a complete mess to partly to vent, and partly so that the next person in similar situations can see how bad it can get and to just learn how deep the rabbit hole can go, I guess. At least for someone like me who was damaged to being with. I know this forum does not define me, but it has been such a big part of my life for almost a year now, that is hard not to feel connected.

 

But at then end of the day, you hit the all the buzz words in your final sentence. The fact is that I AM internalizing everything and it seems that I have no self-worth left to take away from.

 

Thank you so much for writing. You have been a welcome and much needed new member to this club that no one wants to join. Your posts are always insightful, intelligent and lovely. All qualities that represent the type of woman you surely are.

[yodelwithyu]

There is a moment when something bad is happening to you that you realize that if you stop fighting, it will hurt less, it might be over faster and you might survive it. You just have to accept certain things and minimize the agony and anguish. You have to shut off. You have to become deaf, blind and mute. I know that some of you know the feeling I am talking about. You just know that is what you have to do to make it to the other side.

 

I think that is what I have been doing in the last couple of months. Being here, in this apartment for the first time since September, when I was last huddled in the shower shaking and crying for hours had made me realize that. The last few days the feelings keep welling up to this really distinct type of pain and regret I had never felt in my life before I met B. And I have been struggling to fight it, when if fact, it seems better to just let it go and shut off because, I am so exhausted. I don’t mean be with him, or break NC or anything like that. I just mean me and my life. The thing I do know is, that most of the heartache I am feeling is towards myself and my own actions and inactions. I am angry about certain things, and yes, I miss my best friend, but I am not pining for him, not even pining for him to be pining over me. I have disgraced myself and my mother, and perhaps that is the hardest pill to swallow, causing me such great discomfort.

 

There is also the anniversary of the miscarriage looming, and that is causing me an in describable amount of pain. I think after that day has gone, the rest of all the anniversaries are good ones, like going NC and leaving him behind the first time. So think maybe after May (when my second round of egg freezing is over), there could be less turbulent reminders and pullbacks.

 

The difference, between going through what is described in the first paragraph and now, is that I did not choose and could not have prevented the first instance, but I had a mighty big hand in getting myself to this sorry state. So that is something I will deal within due time, to learn how to forgive myself. But for now, I think I need to feel ok in my sh**ty approach to just…be. Time will pass, and some wounds will have healed, and I will pull myself back together like I have before. Maybe it is just takes longer every time you have to do that. I don’t know.

 

 

"And if you're still bleeding, you're the lucky ones. 'Cause most of our feelings, they are dead and they are gone. We're setting fire to our insides for fun, collecting pictures from a flood that wrecked our home. It was a flood that wrecked this home."

-Daughter

[heartwhole]

Well, I meant with sharing the story about my friend, that you are like ME in the scenario, not her. You're wishing people were better at keeping in touch, but it's not their forte. I wouldn't try to force it. Obviously these other friends telling my friend that she was dropping the ball didn't convince her to change anything. I still enjoy seeing her if and when it happens, but I won't expect her to be an important leg of my support system.

[gettingstronger]

Well- sounds like they were men-

 

If it was an MM perhaps he felt it was inappropriate at some point to PM with a female if his wife didn't know and if his wife did know-maybe they both decided it was not best for their marriage

 

If it was an OM- maybe they just felt they were getting close to an unavailable woman-

 

Either way-its probably more about where they are in their journey than anything you did- don't beat yourself up- LS is full of wonderful, but hurting people- we are vulnerable and moody- kind of goes with the territory- hang in there!

[Ophelia25]

I marvel at the mix of empathy and condemnation on here, but then I think about how I feel inside in my situation, and realize that I violently bounce from self-pity to self-hatred every five minutes. I think a lot of posts reflect that feeling that comes from feeling such strong love for someone that the world says is wrong. You know it's wrong, and your body, and heart, and large portions of your dumb brain (the editorial you, not you specifically) feel so convinced that something wrong would not feel so wonderful and right so much of the time.

 

But the people on here have been hurt and dragged through so much, and many of them are resentful and bitter and know what happens at the end. And some of them are healing and know what has to to be done to get there. And they get mad when they see people who are so trapped in the throes of unrealistic thinking. I've decided that's why very few people comment on my updates, and I'm okay with that, I think. I'm so early in the process that they are like, yeah, this girl is still delusional and not ready to face reality, so no point in really wasting my sage advice on her. It's okay, I think it's still good for me to organize my thoughts and get them out there. And maybe good for me to have a few nasties tell me how stupid I am.

 

In reading others' posts, though, I do bristle at some of the harsher people. The ones who try to be direct and blunt, but aren't really helpful. Doses of reality are good when they are constructive, but everyone on here KNOWS they screwed up, KNOWS they are potentially destroying marriages and families and lives, and almost everyone I've seen on here feels really terribly about it. I don't like when people post how they feel about things and are told, "You don't know anything." "You are ignorant." "Have fun with your affair." "Soul mates don't exist, get over yourself." etc.

 

Tough love is one thing, but comments like that just make the OP feel even more worthless and distraught. Because most of the time, that's how they feel about themselves.

[Doublegold]

Thanks for your post, Heartwhole.

 

Thank you so much for writing. You have been a welcome and much needed new member to this club that no one wants to join. Your posts are always insightful, intelligent and lovely. All qualities that represent the type of woman you surely are.

 

 

I second this, wholeheartedly!

[heartwhole]

I second this, wholeheartedly!

 

Oh goodness, thank you!

 

 

I also wanted to add that I'm new to the PM thing and find it quite confusing that it doesn't save your sent messages, so I sent a few, and then a few days later I thought, "I replied to those messages, right?" but there was no way to check. I did eventually figure out how to "go advanced" and save sent messages, but if people aren't doing this, and they've got a lot of PMs going at once, then they may simply have no clue if they've replied or not. So again, nothing to take personally.

[yodelwithyu]

Well, I meant with sharing the story about my friend, that you are like ME in the scenario, not her.

 

Well, there you go. Exhibit A: thinking you were saying I was the friend instead of you. Thank you for clarifying <3 I would never push it, but I would also never, IRL or online, let anyone who is a even a small part of my life just disappear from my life without once making sure, which were my "did I do something" PMs. I waited two to three weeks after last contact and followed up. But I don't see anything further than that, as it has been more than a month for each. It is what it is. I guess I was wondering if anyone has ever felt snubbed (without a clear reason) by an online persona. Or am I just spectacularly sensitive? Yeesh.

 

 

Well- sounds like they were men- Check

If it was an MM Check

If it was an OM Check

LS is full of wonderful, but hurting people- we are vulnerable and moody- kind of goes with the territory- Check

 

Lol, one of each. In fact, with the MM, that is exactly what I was thinking. Boundaries. But coming on the heels of being ignored by an OM, it felt like I had said or become something to push them. We are all broken, but wonderful, and I keep telling myself that. More than being pathetic, I am concerned that my ramblings and heat of the moment posts and messages offended someone, I guess.

 

I second this, wholeheartedly!

 

Doublegold, you are so punny!

 

 

I also wanted to add that I'm new to the PM thing and find it quite confusing that it doesn't save your sent messages, so I sent a few, and then a few days later I thought, "I replied to those messages, right?" but there was no way to check.

 

After sending my first PM, I realized it didn't save the sent, so unless it is a very quick reply, I write it out somewhere else before sending so my overactive mind can do exactly what is has done..."DID I say something super bad???" But, yeah, I've been there, and thank for reminding me!

 

 

Ok but for real, I don't know if it is a good thing or bad thing, but I have been crying for a while since I posted last on LS. I am sure some of you share my questions of shedding and sharing hurt, versus opening and salting wounds. Either way, I think it was necessary, as I have this place to myself at the moment. I guess it is kind of like when you meet a new IC for the first time, and it has been a while since IC (for those who have had to experience it more than a couple of times); it feels raw for days after opening up, but it also feel like a burden is lifted.

 

Happy Monsoon and New Year festivals to anyone on my side of the world!

 

 

And if I could, I would amend by song quote for the day from the Daughter one to:

 

And the arms of the ocean are carrying me.

And all this devotion was rushing out of me.

And the crashes are heaven for a sinner like me,

But the arms of the ocean delivered me.

 

Though the pressure's hard to take,

It's the only way I can escape.

It seems a heavy choice to make,

And now I am under…

-Florence and the Machine

Edited April 12, 2016 by yodelwithyu

[gettingstronger]

Well, there you go. Exhibit A: thinking you were saying I was the friend instead of you. Thank you for clarifying <3 I would never push it, but I would also never, IRL or online, let anyone who is a even a small part of my life just disappear from my life without once making sure, which were my "did I do something" PMs. I waited two to three weeks after last contact and followed up. But I don't see anything further than that, as it has been more than a month for each. It is what it is. I guess I was wondering if anyone has ever felt snubbed (without a clear reason) by an online persona. Or am I just spectacularly sensitive? Yeesh.

 

 

 

 

Lol, one of each. In fact, with the MM, that is exactly what I was thinking. Boundaries. But coming on the heels of being ignored by an OM, it felt like I had said or become something to push them. We are all broken, but wonderful, and I keep telling myself that. More than being pathetic, I am concerned that my ramblings and heat of the moment posts and messages offended someone, I guess.

 

 

 

Doublegold, you are so punny!

 

 

 

 

After sending my first PM, I realized it didn't save the sent, so unless it is a very quick reply, I write it out somewhere else before sending so my overactive mind can do exactly what is has done..."DID I say something super bad???" But, yeah, I've been there, and thank for reminding me!

 

 

Ok but for real, I don't know if it is a good thing or bad thing, but I have been crying for a while since I posted last on LS. I am sure some of you share my questions of shedding and sharing hurt, versus opening and salting wounds. Either way, I think it was necessary, as I have this place to myself at the moment. I guess it is kind of like when you meet a new IC for the first time, and it has been a while since IC (for those who have had to experience it more than a couple of times); it feels raw for days after opening up, but it also feel like a burden is lifted.

 

Happy Monsoon and New Year festivals to anyone on my side of the world!

 

 

And if I could, I would amend by song quote for the day from the Daughter one to:

 

And the arms of the ocean are carrying me.

And all this devotion was rushing out of me.

And the crashes are heaven for a sinner like me,

But the arms of the ocean delivered me.

 

Though the pressure's hard to take,

It's the only way I can escape.

It seems a heavy choice to make,

And now I am under…

-Florence and the Machine

 

 

 

For your own growth and healing it may be helpful to ponder these questions about this recent behaviors

 

 

Why would you have any type of a relationship with a MM, even if it's online.

 

Would you care about being ignored if it were women and not men?

 

How much of your own self worth do you tie up with having the attention of men?

 

None of this is accusatory but questions I'd ask myself if I came to a forum for support getting over a bad relationship only to get involved on any level with men I don't even know.

 

PS- there have been others that started PMing with members of the opposite sex on a continual basis and its blown up publicly on LS. You may want to consider just how passive aggressive (your own words) this post was and if that's good for you.

 

Not judging as I've said, we've all got lots of growing and healing to do. Just my thoughts.

[gettingstronger]

And on a personal safety note- this site is full of vulnerable people. Be careful of the wolf in wheels clothing, people that come here to take advantage of our vulnerable state. Protect you and your heart.

[gettingstronger]

The above should say wolf in sheeps clothing. Autocorrect is a trip!

[Bittersweetie]

PS- there have been others that started PMing with members of the opposite sex on a continual basis and its blown up publicly on LS. You may want to consider just how passive aggressive (your own words) this post was and if that's good for you.

 

I was actually going to say this exactly before gettingstronger beat me to it. When I joined this site, after my A and d-day, I made the decision not to PM men. I realized this site was a place for vulnerable people who shared personal stuff...which could lead to other things. So my boundary was no PMs with men. Maybe think about your own boundaries in reference to this site? As you work on your boundaries here on LS, it can give you the strength to work on your boundaries IRL too. Good luck.

[Dylon]

Yodel, don't let those sensitivity and insecurity caused by him surface. They are only real if let it be. Don't accept that it's reality. You know the truth now.

 

I'm enlightened and surprised by some of the responses concerning pm. I remember when I was at my darkest hours, I wanted someone to talk to. For me LS wasn't an ideal place to share but I tried anyway, like an AA meeting that you need but don't want to go to. In turn I saw so many hurt people and I read their stories. It was a distraction for me and there were helpful insights, like a counciling session. I can only think with true honest reflection of myself that it's nice to be offered support privately. This whole whether the person is vulnerable, a man or a woman, married or not, makes me want to crawl back into my old antisocial state. Do people really get judged like that when they offer help? I know men get judged like this. I've seen and heard it here. It's too bad.

 

That being said, it's not a place people expect friendship or relationship. It's a place to share and listen? It's like a counciling session and after hour people might check to see how one is doing in the program? When I got my first pm. I thought that kind of the person to say he/she supports you or to say thank you. I push myself to follow the kindness of others because I was always bad on a social level. We are all vulnerable with the situation we got ourselves into but it is not with people here that we are vulnerable with and should be afraid to talk or listen if it helps, even in private. I don't disagree that people can be in such a fragile like holding a bottle in front of an alcoholic but I just have to assume the majority of people are just not at that state.

 

Yodel, people come and go. I wish I can read more and write more. There isn't enough time. It's hard to reply to someone here or pm without first reading on your update. I assume it's simply that and it's not you. Also this is a place of hurt for many. That's another reason why I don't think people are here to take advantage of others. There are better place to meet people away from all the hurt to make friends. If it comes like how I see a few of you bonded, I think it's great. However that friendship was build from a hurtful situation.

 

Take care of yourself!

Edited April 12, 2016 by Dylon

[yodelwithyu]

For your own growth and healing it may be helpful to ponder these questions about this recent behaviors

I am not sure what other behaviors you are talking about, but I will say that I was feeling raw and crying was over what I posted about healing and shutting off (after my post about online going-ons) and not about “friends” on LS. And I am concerned with the way I am shutting off and how I have been doing it, which is why I posted about it. I regret asking this stupid question about online etiquette and if anyone else’s self esteem took such a beating that they wondered if they are always in the wrong, which overshadowed and actual post on how I was doing. I really didn’t think that post wold turn into a such a thing.

 

Why would you have any type of a relationship with a MM, even if it's online.

Honestly, I didn’t see them as MM, just another person in need of or providing support, like me. BUT if I were to be solely interested in MMs, which I am not, it would be to have some specific questions answered, as I may have more questions than the average OW since I was tricked into an A. I mean isn’t that why BSs come to the OP side of the fence and vice versa? To gain understanding and perspective of things and people you cannot wrap you mind around? So that is the allure of talking to, but not having any sort of “relationship,” with an MM.

 

Would you care about being ignored if it were women and not men?

Funny you ask this, because as I replied to your original post about whether it was an OM or a MM, I was thinking to myself “Thank goodness it wasn’t one of the girls. I would actually be a little hurt.” I guess that goes to show you maybe you really should type out everything you are thinking, even if it turns into a novel, to save someone else the headspace and misunderstanding. Also, everything is from behind a screen on LS, so we really even know if we are talking to men or women or children? I have often wondered how many people have multiple accounts and personas. But again, to answer your question, it would have bothered me more if it was a woman, because solidarity and whatnot. In fact, the only reason I made that distinction in my post was so the people I am PMing with currently, ALL of whom are women, would know it was not about them.

 

How much of your own self worth do you tie up with having the attention of men?

Honestly, I don’t think very much. I actually like being single (and UNdating), and a lot of times when I have been out by myself at tournaments or lectures, I wear a fake ring so I can just concentrate on what I am there for, and not have to worry about men who are talking to me for the sole purpose of hitting on me. Which, of course, after being on this forum, I have realized is stupid, as a lot of men don’t care about a damn thing when they have their mid set. In fact, I just upgraded my “diamond” two months ago, but haven’t had a chance to use it because I don’t need to in my country; there is zero chance that I will meet someone new and the whole community knows I am unmarried. Shame I wasn’t wearing the old one when I met my exMM, though it seems he is the type of person who wouldn’t have cared, as it turns out. If you read a little further back, I have suffered through an assault, which actually makes me shy away from men quite a bit, and sometimes, people in general. All my best friends (excepting the addition of exMM at one point) are women, and if you notice I talk extensively about taking care or my mother and not so much my father. I have only brothers, ranging between the ages of 2.5 to 36, so I get validation from them, I feel. I have also mentioned that I have only dated good and kind men before, and I can count on one hand the number of people I have slept with.

 

But you know, you never know…from an outside perspective maybe you are seeing something I am not. I clearly have made such a mess of life that I maybe shouldn’t to say what is or isn’t actually the case.

 

None of this is accusatory but questions I'd ask myself if I came to a forum for support getting over a bad relationship only to get involved on any level with men I don't even know.

I just never thought about it like that. Everyone was just a person to me, and you can learn something from most people you come across. Didn’t even really think people PMed and stuff on forums, so I didn’t come here looking to get involved. As I said before, you don’t ever really know who you are talking to, but if I am getting answers I want or the support I need, I don’t really care if it is an OW, a MM, a BS pretending to be a WS, a man pretending to be a young girl, or a cat pretending to be a middle-aged man. It was a few of PMs, solely about our situations, and a little back story to gain some perspective. I didn’t feel like I was “getting involved.” I am not looking for a relationship, or even dating in real life, and after the horror stories I have read here and just because I wouldn’t know how to, I would never get into an “online relationship.” I wouldn’t even go as far as to say we are friends with most of the people we PM with. Maybe I am just really stupid. At this point in the conversation, I am not sure. My post was supposed to be about feeling extra sensitive to rejection and abandonment after going through what I did, but I guess it came across as feeling rejected by men or wanting to start a relationship or intense friendships…? Anyway, don’t they have sites or apps these days for actually trying to meet people or make friendships? I joke, I joke.

 

PS- there have been others that started PMing with members of the opposite sex on a continual basis and its blown up publicly on LS. You may want to consider just how passive aggressive (your own words) this post was and if that's good for you.

I was actually going to say this exactly before gettingstronger beat me to it. When I joined this site, after my A and d-day, I made the decision not to PM men. I realized this site was a place for vulnerable people who shared personal stuff...which could lead to other things. So my boundary was no PMs with men. Maybe think about your own boundaries in reference to this site? As you work on your boundaries here on LS, it can give you the strength to work on your boundaries IRL too. Good luck.

Have not seen that and would not like to at all. ESPECIALLY if it had something to do with me. Maybe it is my naiveté about how things are online that I don’t have the right boundaries? Which again, were reasons for asking, as I am relatively new to this. I can understand the boundaries which you have set forth for yourself Bittersweetie, according to what you have been through, and I think it is admirable. I guess I didn’t really think I had to worry about my boundaries as I haven’t been a WS, didn’t actively seek out an A, or even participated in a forum before, much less had an online/text relationship? I presumed if I felt like something was out of line from the other side, I would just point it out or clear it up like I do in real life OR (and here was mainly the reason for my post, as I would have acted differently) send a quick note about saying I wanted to cease communication for whatever reason, and let someone know if indeed it was me, and not them. Again, the whole point of asking the question was to figure out etiquette and how forums work and people’s reactions. I will say I was a little cautious with any exMM, mostly for them, not myself, but my need for knowledge and understanding was greater than the fear that they might try something and I might fall into something else. Also, I guess I overstated when saying “online friendships,” as I am not sure what you would call it.

 

Not judging as I've said, we've all got lots of growing and healing to do. Just my thoughts.

Thank you for these thoughts, some have given me some things to mull over, and others, I feel are a little off base. For what it is worth, I do feel super judged, and I am not saying that to antagonize you or make you feel bad, but just to articulate and examine how sensitive I really am. And I am not sure of your gender right at this moment, so that is not playing a role.

 

You may want to consider just how passive aggressive (your own words) this post was and if that's good for you.

I actually didn’t know that asking this question was going to turn into such a thing…I would have posted it about two women, or one man or one woman also, wondering if anyone has felt this way. It was on my mind, and I wanted to post about something other than just exMM after so long. Again, you asking me if it is “good for me” to post such a passive aggressive thing, which, I guess, despite my saying multiple times that it wasn’t meant to be, came out that way—just as you saying no judgements still seemed to come out a little judgy to me, is exactly the type of thing that makes me think ten times before posting now. Because I might come across the wrong way, or it might be taken the wrong way.

 

I don’t WANT to be in touch with these two people, and I wish them no harm, and I am about 98% sure they are not reading. I wasn’t trying to illicit a response from them. In addition, let me clarify the a couple of PMs were exchanged, then after I didn’t get a response of two to three weeks, I sent a message asking if I had done anything to offend, and got no response, I left it. Each of these happened at different times, and the second was over a month ago. Mostly I was just really worried I had offended another HUman. It also crossed my mind that it might be the same person. I was also curious as to how often it happens—the intentional ignoring, not because there was anything inflammatory or inappropriate or because they have just stopped being on LS.

 

__________

 

 

I am sorry I am being defensive. And sorry for the super long post, in which I probably repeated myself a bunch of times, as I tried to answer each question. I held off on posting a reply and went to sleep, thinking I would feel less defensive this morning, but I still feel the same. Maybe I am really not cut out for LS if I recoil so hard the first time I feel judged, huh? Or maybe I really have lost the plot if I am being asked about validation from men, boundaries and wanting a relationship with a man online, but I can’t see why.

 

Man, I really don’t know how the people who get tough love or just straight up “you are not a good person” do it. I feel so sensitive, exposed and incredibly dumb at the moment! And I am wondering if I am just not seeing what you guys are, which leaves me a little off kilter!

[yodelwithyu]

And on a personal safety note- this site is full of vulnerable people. Be careful of the wolf in wheels clothing, people that come here to take advantage of our vulnerable state. Protect you and your heart.

 

 

This I agree with, though I guess I never thought of it on SUCH a sinister level. I wondered if people are sniffing around, but for the most part, I have interacted with people who aren’t new, or even if they are, have posted enough on their own threads or others that you can gauge who they are, or the type of person they are portraying themselves to be. In general I am hugely cautious because of real life experiences, so my aliases have aliases, lol. But I do appreciate this sentiment, as I never thought about it in such a direct sense of people looking to find vulnerable people to take advantage of. I will be more vigilant.

 

PS. “Wolf in sheep's clothing” is one of the descriptions I used in my NC letter to my exMM. But this time, not in reference to myself, but in reference to his W, as I realized the extent of his lies between December and February, and felt utterly disgusted that he would take away her right to make informed choices, like he had with me, pretending to be single.

[yodelwithyu]

I'm enlightened and surprised by some of the responses concerning pm. I remember when I was at my darkest hours, I wanted someone to talk to. For me LS wasn't an ideal place to share but I tried anyway, like an AA meeting that you need but don't want to go to. In turn I saw so many hurt people and I read their stories. It was a distraction for me and there were helpful insights, like a counciling session. I can only think with true honest reflection of myself that it's nice to be offered support privately. This whole whether the person is vulnerable, a man or a woman, married or not, makes me want to crawl back into my old antisocial state. Do people really get judged like that when they offer help?

Yes. This is a lot of how I feel.

 

That being said, it's not a place people expect friendship or relationship.

Again, I guess I had overstated using the words friendship and whatnot, but I wasn’t thinking that hard about technicalities. I certainly didn’t come here looking for friendships, and didn’t even know that you could built a friendship through a forum. But I wasn’t really sure what to call someone that you have PMed with.

 

I don't disagree that people can be in such a fragile like holding a bottle in front of an alcoholic but I just have to assume the majority of people are just not at that state.

I can see this, and when there was talk of boundaries, this is what I thought of. But I didn’t willingly choose to be in a relationship with a committed man, I thought I was in a committed relationship with said man. For most of my life, I have had boundary issues within myself, which don’t involve relationships or other people. Like self-medicating, for example. Or self-harming, which I have not done in a long time, unless you count the self-medicating. So I am not quite sure what would be waved in my face that I had to set boundaries for.

 

Yodel, people come and go. I wish I can read more and write more.

There are better place to meet people away from all the hurt to make friends. If it comes like how I see a few of you bonded, I think it's great. However that friendship was build from a hurtful situation.

Oh, don’t I know how people come and go! I attended an international school from K-12 where the kids of missionaries, diplomats and aid workers would all only stay for two to three years. My mom still jokes that the last day of school was the worst, because invariably, one of her kids and a handful of her students had meltdowns, as one of their best friends were moving away, and we would NEVER see each other again (this was way before the internet and budget airlines).

 

I am actually an ambivert. So I love my alone time more than anything, but I have a large social circle and have had the same two best friends (women) for a lot of my life. One for over twenty years, and the other for about fifteen. I’m not really lonely ever, except in this specific exMM/OW situation, which is why LS is handy. But like I have said before, in the context of LS, perhaps the word “friendship” was overstated by me. But what do you then call people who are listening and supporting you, privately or publicly, through the darkest of your days, but it is just they are online?

[yodelwithyu]

I think maybe my time at LS is, in fact, coming to a close. I was just about to post a strange fact/coincidence about eMM and I that I keep forgetting to mention, and it was meant to be a little humorous after all these serious posts. But I kept putting in so many qualifiers and facts and explanations that is just became weird. And even then, right before I posted, I got nervous someone would take something the wrong way, even though I did mention that I wasn't being rational at that moment in time and it was a while ago. But alas, my skin in too thin for another backlash at the moment, so I will just leave you with the funny bit of my post:

 

"It really is the little things that can put a bug in your butt for a moment or two. FML.

 

AAAANNND that should even out all the posting deficit I have had in the last couple of months. In just a few hours, too. Whew. "

 

Take care peeps,

Y

[gettingstronger]

It's ok to be defensive, you're working through a traumatic event. You come across as very deep and caring. You are also very hurt right now so in my mind it's normal to be hypersensitive not only to my post but to the whole PM thing. Cut yourself some slack, you will get back to the strong person you once were. Well, at least pretty close. Hearings a long journey and I honestly wish you the best. You seem very nice and longing to just feel better.