hotpotato Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Is selflessness really the way to gain success in dating and relationships? Plenty of selfish people do just fine in the dating world. Some sort of selfishness is inherent in romantic relationships. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Is selflessness really the way to gain success in dating and relationships? Plenty of selfish people do just fine in the dating world. Some sort of selfishness is inherent in romantic relationships. A balance is important. Some behaviors can be categorized as either selfless or selfish, but a healthy partner neither selfish or selfless on the whole. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 If you're looking at it as 'how to gain success' you're doing the whole selfless thing wrong. Acting selfless in hopes of gaining something for yourself is NOT being selfless. That being said I think there's a lid for every jar - they just pair up with different people. I think a balance is generally best, if possible. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author hotpotato Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 If you're looking at it as 'how to gain success' you're doing the whole selfless thing wrong. Acting selfless in hopes of gaining something for yourself is NOT being selfless. That being said I think there's a lid for every jar - they just pair up with different people. I think a balance is generally best, if possible. In the dating world people do things with the hopes of gaining something. Ex if a guy takes a girl on a date, he is hoping to gain something even just brownie points. Link to post Share on other sites
Els Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 In the dating world people do things with the hopes of gaining something. Ex if a guy takes a girl on a date, he is hoping to gain something even just brownie points. Indeed some people do. But such actions are not selfless. Why talk about selflessness in that case? 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author hotpotato Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 Indeed some people do. But such actions are not selfless. Why talk about selflessness in that case? Because its a prime example of how relationships are not selfless Link to post Share on other sites
GravityMan Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Selfishness isn't always a bad thing. Selflessness isn't always a good thing. A healthy individual has some amount of both, and intuitively knows when it's better to be selfish and when it's better to be selfless. As for romantic relationships, I think it just boils down to finding a partner who meshes well with your "balance" - and vice versa. A person who is 100% selfless (if such a person even exists) will probably have a tough time attracting others. Such people would probably be boring to most others. You have to have some degree of pride; you have to like and care about your own life...there has to be something interesting about you and your life in order for others to be intrigued in the first place. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Because its a prime example of how relationships are not selfless But taking someone on a date is also selfless. It's treating someone else, wanting to show them a good time. So on balance, it is neither selfless nor selfish, even though there are selfish and selfless motivations in the one action. If a person dates from heavily selfish OR selfless motives, it's going to be a hindrance to success. Link to post Share on other sites
JuneJulySeptember Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 (edited) A person who is 100% selfless (if such a person even exists) will probably have a tough time attracting others. Such people would probably be boring to most others. You have to have some degree of pride; you have to like and care about your own life...there has to be something interesting about you and your life in order for others to be intrigued in the first place. Interesting that you mention. I was watching a clip of a woman who went to go teach in the slums of India. Spent years setting up a school and helped children there. Obviously, dating was not something on her radar. She was good looking, fit, and quite intelligent and well educated. Had she chosen a different path, maybe she could have worked for a think-tank in Austin, been part of the organizing crew for South by Southwest, attended Burning Man yearly, had her capricious preferences of cajun style bars, jazz cafes, Tapas places, and gallerias and been the 'cool' guy's gal who loves both Pantera and the Dallas Cowboys. Now, you're talking about a woman who probably can attract 100 men in a week. But who are WE to judge that she is boring for giving those things up. Who am I to judge that a nice, kind person who is a giving a lot to this world is too boring to be my friend? Nobody is too boring to be my friend. Edited September 20, 2015 by JuneJulySeptember 1 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Interesting that you mention. I was watching a clip of a woman who went to go teach in the slums of India. Spent years setting up a school and helped children there. Obviously, dating was not something on her radar. She was good looking, fit, and quite intelligent and well educated. Had she chosen a different path, maybe she could have worked for a think-tank in Austin, been part of the organizing crew for South by Southwest, attended Burning Man yearly, had her capricious preferences of cajun style bars, jazz cafes, Tapas places, and gallerias and been the 'cool' guy's gal who loves both Pantera and the Dallas Cowboys. Now, you're talking about a woman who probably can attract 100 men in a week. But who are WE to judge that she is boring for giving those things up. Who am I to judge that a nice, kind person who is a giving a lot to this world is too boring to be my friend? Nobody is too boring to be my friend. She sounds amazing! She is someone who very intentionally designed her own life to be personally fulfilling. The fact that her passion is selfless doesn't negate the fact that she is living her own passions. Good for her! I have dreams of traveling to Haiti and India and building toilets for neighborhoods who don't have access. There is definitely a selfish aspect to that, as I'll be putting my desires before those of my family if I do it. One day. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Author hotpotato Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 But taking someone on a date is also selfless. It's treating someone else, wanting to show them a good time. So on balance, it is neither selfless nor selfish, even though there are selfish and selfless motivations in the one action. If a person dates from heavily selfish OR selfless motives, it's going to be a hindrance to success. I disagree, taking someone on a date is very rarely selfless. Mostly a dayte is followed by some request to have sex. This is coming from someone who dated a lot in her younger years. Most guys,arent taking a girl out for the sake of it. Link to post Share on other sites
JuneJulySeptember Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Is selflessness really the way to gain success in dating and relationships? Plenty of selfish people do just fine in the dating world. Some sort of selfishness is inherent in romantic relationships. I actually think that one of the great ironies is that once you are in a committed marriage, displays of true selflessness are the norm and even examples of utmost altruism are fairly commonplace. People give up their entire lives working to support their mate and family, quit their jobs to spend weeks and months by their ailing spouse's bedside, and even give their lives to save their spouses. However, the process of getting into that relationship, what can commonly be considered 'dating' is ... well, not so much that. I won't get into it, because I've been there, and I plan on enjoying the rest of my day. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 I disagree, taking someone on a date is very rarely selfless. Mostly a dayte is followed by some request to have sex. This is coming from someone who dated a lot in her younger years. Most guys,arent taking a girl out for the sake of it. I don't see things this black and white at all. Being taken on a date by a guy I liked gave me a thrill, and he enjoyed giving it to me. He, too, got a thrill from the date alone. We both enjoyed each other's company and the activity. If sex happened, then that also was mutually desired and enjoyed. But I never dated people I didn't know. That may be the difference. Link to post Share on other sites
Author hotpotato Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 I don't see things this black and white at all. Being taken on a date by a guy I liked gave me a thrill, and he enjoyed giving it to me. He, too, got a thrill from the date alone. We both enjoyed each other's company and the activity. If sex happened, then that also was mutually desired and enjoyed. But I never dated people I didn't know. That may be the difference. That could be the difference, i could see how someone you already knew being nicer. Id say dating is about as selfless as putting money into a slot machine. Many guys are selfish porno lovers so mutually enjoyable is debatable. Plenty of guys will take a girl in a date and tell her anythi g she,wants to hear just to get a piece. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 That could be the difference, i could see how someone you already knew being nicer. Id say dating is about as selfless as putting money into a slot machine. Many guys are selfish porno lovers so mutually enjoyable is debatable. Plenty of guys will take a girl in a date and tell her anythi g she,wants to hear just to get a piece. Why would a woman date those guys? What in the world does she get out of it? Link to post Share on other sites
Author hotpotato Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 Why would a woman date those guys? What in the world does she get out of it? Everyone is nice in the beginning. Ive seen very little to the contrary tbh. I dont really date anymore lol Link to post Share on other sites
MissBee Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Is selflessness really the way to gain success in dating and relationships? Plenty of selfish people do just fine in the dating world. Some sort of selfishness is inherent in romantic relationships. I find those to be two unnecessary extremes personally. Some people are selfless to the point where they do not care for themselves and think that giving and giving to others at the expense of self makes them a good partner, it's called codependency. Such folks tend to end up resentful and sad because they think they will be rewarded for their "selflessness" but usually end up with selfish people who take and take and take and never acknowledge their giving. Selfish is also not good. But you are indeed right, many selfish people do still end up in relationships (usually with the selfless). I think for healthy relationships a healthy balance of self-care, self-love, knowing when to prioritize you and giving, compromising, taking care of others is necessary. Sometimes you have to say no or choose you in a relationship (but it can be for the good of the whole) and sometimes you have to put you on the back burner for the good of the whole. It's about being flexible and knowing when to do what IMO and not just being either selfless or selfish as polar opposites. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author hotpotato Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 I find those to be two unnecessary extremes personally. Some people are selfless to the point where they do not care for themselves and think that giving and giving to others at the expense of self makes them a good partner, it's called codependency. Such folks tend to end up resentful and sad because they think they will be rewarded for their "selflessness" but usually end up with selfish people who take and take and take and never acknowledge their giving. Selfish is also not good. But you are indeed right, many selfish people do still end up in relationships (usually with the selfless). I think for healthy relationships a healthy balance of self-care, self-love, knowing when to prioritize you and giving, compromising, taking care of others is necessary. Sometimes you have to say no or choose you in a relationship (but it can be for the good of the whole) and sometimes you have to put you on the back burner for the good of the whole. It's about being flexible and knowing when to do what IMO and not just being either selfless or selfish as polar opposites. I dont think selfish people end up with only selfless people. In dating people generally do what is best for them. This is still true in relationships as well. Link to post Share on other sites
ZA Dater Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 A person who is 100% selfless (if such a person even exists) will probably have a tough time attracting others. Such people would probably be boring to most others. You have to have some degree of pride; you have to like and care about your own life...there has to be something interesting about you and your life in order for others to be intrigued in the first place. Very interesting post! I don't want to be silly but I am selfless, for me its always been something I enjoy doing, helping others if I can, even at times when I really battle to do so. Interesting is so subjective because what really is interesting? Link to post Share on other sites
Author hotpotato Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 I actually think that one of the great ironies is that once you are in a committed marriage, displays of true selflessness are the norm and even examples of utmost altruism are fairly commonplace. People give up their entire lives working to support their mate and family, quit their jobs to spend weeks and months by their ailing spouse's bedside, and even give their lives to save their spouses. However, the process of getting into that relationship, what can commonly be considered 'dating' is ... well, not so much that. I won't get into it, because I've been there, and I plan on enjoying the rest of my day. I think relationships can be selfless esp in that sweet spot when things are really good. They are a lot of ifs and and buts in there though. As far as dating, i think id rather saw off one of my fingers rather than date again. Link to post Share on other sites
Yummm Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 You have a very negative outlook on dating. Yeah it's brutal at times, but there's definitely positives from it! As XXOO said - it's a balance of both. From my experience when i'm going on a date, i'm looking to have a fun time, to meet and experience somebody new and appreciate them for who they are and perhaps see if something can expand from that (selfish). I also want to treat the lady, make sure she has a great evening too (selfless)! Link to post Share on other sites
Author hotpotato Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 You have a very negative outlook on dating. Yeah it's brutal at times, but there's definitely positives from it! As XXOO said - it's a balance of both. From my experience when i'm going on a date, i'm looking to have a fun time, to meet and experience somebody new and appreciate them for who they are and perhaps see if something can expand from that (selfish). I also want to treat the lady, make sure she has a great evening too (selfless)! Most of the time dating is neutral at best. Maybe youre nice, but most guys have some kind of expectation. What kind of positives are we talking about? I agree with people who says there needs to be balance. If by so.e chance i ever date or get into a relationship, theres going to be a,lot more of "What are you doing for hotpotato? " Link to post Share on other sites
ZA Dater Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 You have a very negative outlook on dating. Yeah it's brutal at times, but there's definitely positives from it! As XXOO said - it's a balance of both. From my experience when i'm going on a date, i'm looking to have a fun time, to meet and experience somebody new and appreciate them for who they are and perhaps see if something can expand from that (selfish). I also want to treat the lady, make sure she has a great evening too (selfless)! I think ones view is rather determined by ones experiences, someone who has had great experiences will see the positive, someone who hasn't will just see negatives. I agree totally with the last line and when I used to date I always tried to do that, clearly with no success but that's another matter! Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted September 20, 2015 Share Posted September 20, 2015 Most of the time dating is neutral at best. Maybe youre nice, but most guys have some kind of expectation. What kind of positives are we talking about? I agree with people who says there needs to be balance. If by so.e chance i ever date or get into a relationship, theres going to be a,lot more of "What are you doing for hotpotato? " The positives should be: having fun together easy conversation and connection feeling good around this person feeling mutual attraction and enjoying sexual tension and then building to shared sexual enjoyment and shared companionship, support, and all the other benefits of a relationship If it dating someone didn't involve those first 4, I wouldn't continue dating them and move onto the deeper stuff. Link to post Share on other sites
Author hotpotato Posted September 20, 2015 Author Share Posted September 20, 2015 The positives should be: having fun together easy conversation and connection feeling good around this person feeling mutual attraction and enjoying sexual tension and then building to shared sexual enjoyment and shared companionship, support, and all the other benefits of a relationship If it dating someone didn't involve those first 4, I wouldn't continue dating them and move onto the deeper stuff. That sounds more like relationship stuff rather than just dating. Maybe that's your perspective since you are dating people you are already know. I don't know any guy who likes that buildup of sexual tension, esp not if he takes you on a date.Most of the time it's hey i took you on a date now lets get down to business. Honestly, id' rather that kind of guy not even take me on a date in the first place. Link to post Share on other sites
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