Appearance of the Return

[Mr Scorpio]

My understanding is that all Christians eagerly await either (1) being united with Jesus in Heaven or (2) witnessing Jesus return to the Earth.

 

I am admittedly very ignorant about what the bible states in regard to events that should/will occur before/during/after this time (building of various temples, the rapture, 1000 years of war, etc).

 

My questions are: (1) what do you expect Jesus's return to "look like" (assuming you have expectation) and (2) what would satisfy your belief that it actually was Jesus?

 

That is to say, I imagine most of us would be skeptical if we were confronted tomorrow by someone claiming to be the 2nd coming. However, if I saw the sky split with fire-bolts from which a guy in white robes emerged? Ok. I repent.

 

How 'bout you?

[warshaw]

Same for me. If the sky or the river or the ground split in two and some guy in a beard appeared out of nowhere and floated in front of me and said "I'm God", I'd say "ok you got my attention"

 

Until that happens you won't find me in a place of worship on Sunday or any other day for that matter.

[TheFinalWord]

My understanding is that all Christians eagerly await either (1) being united with Jesus in Heaven or (2) witnessing Jesus return to the Earth.

 

I am admittedly very ignorant about what the bible states in regard to events that should/will occur before/during/after this time (building of various temples, the rapture, 1000 years of war, etc).

 

My questions are: (1) what do you expect Jesus's return to "look like" (assuming you have expectation) and (2) what would satisfy your belief that it actually was Jesus?

 

That is to say, I imagine most of us would be skeptical if we were confronted tomorrow by someone claiming to be the 2nd coming. However, if I saw the sky split with fire-bolts from which a guy in white robes emerged? Ok. I repent.

 

How 'bout you?

 

Good questions. In regard to the return of Jesus, there are a variety of opinions about the rapture. This is not really considered the return of Christ per say, but the catching up of believers to save them from what the bible calls the time of Jacob's Trouble aka the Tribulation (Jacob's name was changed to Israel so the word Israel and Jacob and interchangeable; Jacob was the grandson of Abraham, one of the patriarchs).

 

Regarding the rapture, there are three basic opinions. Christ will rapture the church before the tribulation (pre-trib view), during the mid-way point (3.5 years into the time of Jacob's trouble), or at the end of the Tribulation, right before the Battle of Armageddon (post-trib view).

 

Essentially, the Return of Christ many people are thinking of will occur at the Battle of Armageddon. The bible states that all nations will turn against Israel. Right as it appears Israel will be destroyed, Christ will Return to save Israel. According the information we are given, there will be no mistake it is Christ because He will destroy all armies that move against Israel, personally. It will also be a time of mourning because people will instantly realize they have rejected God and become sorrowful. I am trying to not post a lot of verses because that sometimes annoys people. But here is one:

 

Behold, he cometh with clouds; and every eye shall see him, and they also which pierced him: and all kindreds of the earth shall wail because of him. Even so, Amen.

 

The bible states, Christ will return at the same place he ascended, the Mount of Olives.

 

Then shall the Lord go forth, and fight against those nations, as when he fought in the day of battle. And his feet shall stand in that day upon the mount of Olives, which is before Jerusalem on the east, and the mount of Olives shall cleave in the midst thereof toward the east and toward the west, and there shall be a very great valley; and half of the mountain shall remove toward the north, and half of it toward the south.

 

However, important to note that many people will die during the tribulation due to martyrdom, plagues, diseases, natural disasters, and war (the bible indicates up to 2/3 of mankind). Basically, the only way to survive the rule of the Antichrist is to take the mark of the beast. Those that do not take the mark will not be able to buy or sell. Anyone that preaches Christ will be executed during this time (the bible says mainly by beheading).

 

There is also another prophecy which has not happened yet, that seems to suggest must happen before Christ will return. Russia will move against Israel and the Lord will intervene to destroy their armies. As with much prophecy it is not perfectly clear.

 

My guess is we are all wrong on some aspects. End times doctrine has always been very popular (called eschatology; theology of the end times). Paul wrote an epistle on the subject to the Thessalonians.

Edited September 23, 2015 by TheFinalWord

[Mr Scorpio]

My guess is we are all wrong on some aspects. End times doctrine has always been very popular (called eschatology; theology of the end times). Paul wrote an epistle on the subject to the Thessalonians.

 

Yep. Interesting stuff, eschatology.

 

So, to follow one line of thought, if Jesus doesn't return on the Mount of Olives and/or doesn't return during a battle with Israel, that "purported" Jesus would be a fake?

 

Please understand I'm not trying to be patronizing. But given: (1) the number of polls I've come across stating people believe that Jesus will return in their lifetime, and (2) the weight of the event (for Christians and non), I am left to wonder what form of skepticism Christians would/do apply towards this event.

 

Basically, I imagined someone claiming to be Jesus (without all the fire, war, fanfare, etc) and then being put thru our current political-media wringer (for statements that piss off both sides of the political spectrum), and eventually saying "screw this" and leaving. Of course, it turns out it actually was Jesus, and people were too skeptical.

 

Thanks for your reply.

[Ronni_W]

Basically, I imagined someone claiming to be Jesus (without all the fire, war, fanfare, etc) and then being put thru our current political-media wringer (for statements that piss off both sides of the political spectrum), and eventually saying "screw this" and leaving. Of course, it turns out it actually was Jesus, and people were too skeptical.

Of course, this already happened to the Christ who, at that time, appeared in the physical form/human body of whom we today call Jesus.

He WAS the prophesied messiah, and those of the political-religious "wringer" of that time did not recognize him, rejected him and eventually arrested, tortured and crucified him. He came to renew the Jewish religion (which was the main one of the time-and-place of Jesus' incarnation), and the scribes, Pharisees and Sadducees did not want the new teachings (the Christ-truth) to weaken their political and religious stranglehold/slavery over the masses.

 

The Second Coming will not be just one person; that didn't work the last time and it most certainly will not work now. (At least, it didn't work as well or on the scale as was hoped, although it can't be said that Jesus' mission was a complete failure. There is a huge piece that was accomplished.)

So, the sky won't open; there won't be any thunder or lightning bolts. There is no old guy with a beard nor young guy with a halo, radiating Light; not even a fleet of UFOs and its occupants to come and "save" us. We have to do it ourselves. We have to get on the path that Jesus came to demonstrate -- and DID, in fact, demonstrate -- which is the path of personal Christhood. That is why he said, "What I can do, you can do...and more."

 

But the collective religious "wringer" still does not want us to know the truth. We are, for the most part, still enslaved by our own lack of true spiritual knowledge and our unwillingness to dig beneath the surface of what we currently believe/accept as God-truth and the Way of Christ.

[Taramere]

That is to say, I imagine most of us would be skeptical if we were confronted tomorrow by someone claiming to be the 2nd coming. However, if I saw the sky split with fire-bolts from which a guy in white robes emerged? Ok. I repent.

 

How 'bout you?

 

Well, if I saw that happen I'd think that either I'd gone insane and was hallucinating, or I'd accept the existence of the supernatural. Of an exceptionally powerful - perhaps all-powerful - entity. As to whether a supernatural entity dressed in white robes is automatically supremely good because he conforms to the visual stereotype of God....couldn't he just as easily be supremely evil?

 

So he then presents you with a stark choice. He tells you that you have a soul that will last for eternity. Either you can permit it to be enslaved in which case it will enjoy itself in heaven, blindly obedient to its master. Or you can demand that your soul be free to think for itself...while it's tortured forever in hellfire.

 

Is the former choice good in a moral sense, or is it just probably a good but cowardly (understandable cowardice, obviously) idea given the horrendous alternative on offer?

[Tayla]

"My questions are: (1) what do you expect Jesus's return to "look like" (assuming you have expectation) and (2) what would satisfy your belief that it actually was Jesus?"

 

Answer to 1: I'll have no sight to see him....Seriously, Our eyes are for human use and survival, In Heaven or in the after life, I doubt we'd need our eyesight..

Besides, whats he going to say...gee, looking a little pale there lady?

 

Answer to 2: Easy! I'd tell him to go get his Mom and dad and I'd ask them

 

The rapture goes against the teachings of Jesus, to love one another. There is nothing loving to cast fear in spirits that already suffered here on earth...

 

Its not an intellectual answer or in accordance to the man edited biblical interpretations...just not willing to entertain a barbaric concept of the rapture...

[TheFinalWord]

Yep. Interesting stuff, eschatology.

 

So, to follow one line of thought, if Jesus doesn't return on the Mount of Olives and/or doesn't return during a battle with Israel, that "purported" Jesus would be a fake?

 

Please understand I'm not trying to be patronizing. But given: (1) the number of polls I've come across stating people believe that Jesus will return in their lifetime, and (2) the weight of the event (for Christians and non), I am left to wonder what form of skepticism Christians would/do apply towards this event.

 

No problem friend. I don't think you're patronizing at all, so no worries.

 

What you have touched on is the idea of false messiahs. Yes, you are correct, it is very possible for false Messiahs to arise and many theologians speculate the anti-Christ will come across to many (especially Israel) as the Messiah they are expecting and deceive the world.

 

There were others claiming to be the Messiah, even during Jesus' time. Here is one scripture (I will give a few so you can see what you think and make your own determination).

 

This passage occurs in the book of the Acts of the Apostles (the apostles were the original disciples of Christ; in this story the apostles were converting thousands of people. The Jewish authorities were debating what to do about them)

 

• a Pharisee named Gamaliel, a teacher of the law, who was honored by all the people, stood up in the Sanhedrin and ordered that the men be put outside for a little while. Then he addressed the Sanhedrin: “Men of Israel, consider carefully what you intend to do to these men. Some time ago Theudas appeared, claiming to be somebody, and about four hundred men rallied to him. He was killed, all his followers were dispersed, and it all came to nothing. After him, Judas the Galilean appeared in the days of the census and led a band of people in revolt. He too was killed, and all his followers were scattered. Therefore, in the present case I advise you: Leave these men alone! Let them go! For if their purpose or activity is of human origin, it will fail. But if it is from God, you will not be able to stop these men; you will only find yourselves fighting against God.” His speech persuaded them. They called the apostles in and had them flogged. Then they ordered them not to speak in the name of Jesus, and let them go.
  

 

Christ also warned there would be false Messiahs. Here is the full context, in Matthew 24. I have uploaded an audio file if you are interested in listening.

 

Basically, I imagined someone claiming to be Jesus (without all the fire, war, fanfare, etc) and then being put thru our current political-media wringer (for statements that piss off both sides of the political spectrum), and eventually saying "screw this" and leaving. Of course, it turns out it actually was Jesus, and people were too skeptical.

 

What you have essentially described is the first coming of Christ...his 3 year earthly ministry. During this time, he was unknown, even among his own people and even among the experts of the Law.

• Who has believed our message and to whom has the arm of the Lord been revealed? He had no beauty or majesty to attract us to him, nothing in his appearance that we should desire him. He was despised and rejected by mankind, a man of suffering, and familiar with pain. Like one from whom people hide their faces he was despised, and we held him in low esteem.
  
• He was in the world, and though the world was made through him, the world did not recognize him. He came to that which was his own, but his own did not receive him.
  

 

Going with what you said, Christ did ask, "Nevertheless, when the Son of Man comes, will he find faith on earth?"

 

They did not recognize him or accept him as their king, and it is worse than you described because Christ did miracles directly in front of them and they would still not believe. Instead of him leaving due to frustration, or taking vengeance against his enemies, which he could have done, he laid down his life.

 

 

• Then the men stepped forward, seized Jesus and arrested him. With that, one of Jesus’ companions reached for his sword, drew it out and struck the servant of the high priest, cutting off his ear. Put your sword back in its place,” Jesus said to him, “for all who draw the sword will die by the sword. Do you think I cannot call on my Father, and he will at once put at my disposal more than twelve legions of angels? But how then would the Scriptures be fulfilled that say it must happen in this way?” In that hour Jesus said to the crowd, “Am I leading a rebellion, that you have come out with swords and clubs to capture me? Every day I sat in the temple courts teaching, and you did not arrest me. But this has all taken place that the writings of the prophets might be fulfilled.” Then all the disciples deserted him and fled.
  

Regarding Jesus coming back the second time and possibly missing it, there will be no mistake. Even those that do not believe, will know it is Christ.The first time Christ came in humility as a sacrifice, ushering in the age of Grace in which anyone can accept Christ. The second time Christ comes it will be to establish his Kingdom. It will not be in meekness and humility. He will return with great power.

[Haydn]

I suspect he will have a British accent......

[TheFinalWord]

I suspect he will have a British accent......

 

It's possible you could hear his voice in a language you are familiar with. In the Book of Acts, one of the miraculous gifts given to the apostles was the gift of tongues. The apostles were able to preach the gospel in the native tongues of others, even when they did not know the language.

 

Now there were dwelling in Jerusalem Jews, devout men from every nation under heaven. And at this sound the multitude came together, and they were bewildered, because each one was hearing them speak in his own language. And they were amazed and astonished, saying, “Are not all these who are speaking Galileans? And how is it that we hear, each of us in his own native language? Parthians and Medes and Elamites and residents of Mesopotamia, Judea and Cappadocia, Pontus and Asia, Phrygia and Pamphylia, Egypt and the parts of Libya belonging to Cyrene, and visitors from Rome, both Jews and proselytes, Cretans and Arabians—we hear them telling in our own tongues the mighty works of God.