Proud of us, but missing the drama

[autumnnight]

I think one of the ways an A can change people and a marriage is that the turmoil and work and crisis bonding and/or anger and Good person/flawed person roles...well, it becomes what gives one or the other person - or even the relationship - momentum. And then couples don't really know what to do with a "normal" marriage. Kind of like couples who put all their energy into the kids, and then when the nest is empty, they look at each other and think - ummmm....now what?

 

I think a FWS can get "addicted" to the "working hard to be good again," because that struggle to improve and grow becomes defining and, quite frankly, a moral boost. While the BS gets used to being the "better" one. I wonder how many couples who proclaim themselves happy and recovered and yet still seem to "play out" the A over and over in the helping of other couples, the teaching of marriage courses, or even posting online, are really just keeping those roles alive because they don't know how to move past it into a marriage where the A is a non-issue.

 

Just my thought. Like when a child has been sick for a long time or a spouse has been ill for a long time....anytime life goes from revolving around the crisis to "normal," it is an adjustment.

[katielee]

I had the same thought...you said you were happy many years....

Only you know whether Tunera's opinion is correct...but in the times we have talked...I am not sure i would "analyze" you as a self destructive woman.

 

We all want to be loved...and some of us want to be adored. Some of us are more "needy". My mother told Mr. JA before we married...I was a needy girl...whatever that meant....and I guess I am. I am a pleaser...and i fret when others don't like me.

 

My husband could care less what others think....so maybe that's the issue with you and i...we just wanted to feel special and needed and wanted....and maybe that's an issue for you right now...maybe you just NEED to be reassured that he still wants you and finds you desirable. I don't think you are self destructive....quite the opposite...I think you are a survivor.

 

I really needed to hear this tonight. Thank you friend!

[Mrs. John Adams]

Except that in both my case and katielee's case...we have been both FWS and FBS and so have our husbands. there is no "better" one in our relationships.

 

and to be honest...WORKING on it NEVER stops. John and I are ever conscience that we neglected our marriage for just a moment....we let our guard down for a short while...so we are very in tune with each other now....we talk about everything...and make sure we are giving each other what the other one needs. Partially because we want to....but i can't help but think...we both are very aware...and we never want to "lose" us again.

 

So ...working hard never stops....even though we have become more comfortable....and "safe"...we still stay mindful and aware.

[autumnnight]

Except that in both my case and katielee's case...we have been both FWS and FBS and so have our husbands. there is no "better" one in our relationships.

 

and to be honest...WORKING on it NEVER stops. John and I are ever conscience that we neglected our marriage for just a moment....we let our guard down for a short while...so we are very in tune with each other now....we talk about everything...and make sure we are giving each other what the other one needs. Partially because we want to....but i can't help but think...we both are very aware...and we never want to "lose" us again.

 

So ...working hard never stops....even though we have become more comfortable....and "safe"...we still stay mindful and aware.

 

Working on a marriage should never stop.

 

Working on the affair recovery...yeah, in my mind if THAT is still the focus many years later...then someone is stuck.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I really needed to hear this tonight. Thank you friend!

 

 

I am glad sweetheart...I just had a little feeling.....

[Mrs. John Adams]

Working on a marriage should never stop.

 

Working on the affair recovery...yeah, in my mind if THAT is still the focus many years later...then someone is stuck.

 

 

Not stuck Autumn....AWARE...you see once you know the danger and you almost lost the marriage....you stay diligent.

 

You seem to have the opinion my dear friend....that because we stay mindful...we are obsessed.

 

there is a huge difference....

 

Let me share with you a story to get my point across.

Years ago my baby girl fell from a retainer wall. She suffered brain damage.

 

At first...I blamed myself...I let my baby fall....and after the accident... i hovered over her every move....for years

as time went by...I grew less hovering...but i was still very protective....as the accident became further in the distance...I did not think about it as much...but i was still aware.

She is now a mom with her own children....i don't hover anymore ...but i am still protective.... she is my baby. I am ever aware....that I almost lost her.

 

My marriage is my life...and i almost lost it. I accept the responsibility for what i did...and i remain vigilent....I know the dangers that exist. As time has gone by....I don't think about it as much....but I am still aware. I am not obsessed...I am not stuck. I am WISE.

[autumnnight]

Mindful is good. I have a tendency to overeat when I am stressed and lonely. That led to some serious weight (and then health) issues during a crisis period of my life.

 

I am no longer huge, but I will never stop being aware of that tendency.

 

That is a bad analogy, but I do know what you mean.

 

I think too sometimes when all we know of someone is what they say online, it can seem like they define themselves by their failure or hurt. But hopefully most people do not keep these things on the front burner offline every day.

[Mrs. John Adams]

exactly.....you got it

 

We are ever aware of the dangers....but we do not obsess over them. We are not paralyzed by them. We go on with life...and live it to the fullest....ever mindful and grateful...of what we almost lost...and determined to never let it happen again.

[autumnnight]

exactly.....you got it

 

We are ever aware of the dangers....but we do not obsess over them. We are not paralyzed by them. We go on with life...and live it to the fullest....ever mindful and grateful...of what we almost lost...and determined to never let it happen again.

 

Yep. I think an even better analogy is Collierville. There was a place in Collierville that everyone KNEW was a speed trap. I got a ticket there once, even AFTER being warned. I frequently traveled a 90 minute trip, and every time I did I went through Collierville.

 

Every time I saw the Collierville sign, I was reminded of the speed trap and became more aware of my speedometer. However, I DIDN'T think about Collierville the entire 90 minutes or get out the receipt from my ticket.

 

That, to me, is the difference between aware and stuck.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Funny...John just said to me...its like getting a speeding ticket...after you get the ticket you are very careful driving in that area for a good long while...lol

 

You are not obsessed with driving through that area...but you keep an eye out for the officer!

 

 

I hope now you understand. I have for quite sometime felt that you think John and i are engulfed in grief and sadness.....and quite the opposite is true.

 

Katielee and her husband are healing....and healing continues for a long time...and each day gets better and better....she is going to be just fine.....together STRONG.......as long as they hold on to each other....no one can come between.

 

One time...a long time ago...I let go.....I will never let go again...I hold on tightly....because he is my strength.

[autumnnight]

I do not think that. I admire you and John and katielee a lot.

 

In different ways, I allowed outside forces to define me as ever wasted for a long time. I still live in a bit of fear that, should I become too strong, they will be around the corner to knock be down again.

 

I just cannot bear the thought of good people who happen to be imperfect feeling forever boxed into some....category.

 

I believed a lie. I want the people I admire, offline and online, to be protected from that burden.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Autumnnight...you have such an amazing good heart...and I am so sorry you have endured pain.

 

there are good people in this world...people who genuinely care about others.

Admiration is a good thing....as long as we remember those we admire are fallible.

[Woggle]

Find new ways of having excitement and passion in your life without the drama. They do exist.

[Mrs. John Adams]

Find new ways of having excitement and passion in your life without the drama. They do exist.

 

perfectly said!!!!

[turnera]

When I say self destructive, I'm not talking about robbing banks. I'm talking about an inner drive to not let yourself be happy. I know cos I have it. When I'm at home, I want to be out shopping or treating myself to dinner or something. But when I go out, that doesn't 'hit the spot,' either. In other words, never satisfied. Always finding yourself wanting something else, but what you want doesn't turn out to be 'it,' either.

[Mrs. John Adams]

When I say self destructive, I'm not talking about robbing banks. I'm talking about an inner drive to not let yourself be happy. I know cos I have it. When I'm at home, I want to be out shopping or treating myself to dinner or something. But when I go out, that doesn't 'hit the spot,' either. In other words, never satisfied. Always finding yourself wanting something else, but what you want doesn't turn out to be 'it,' either.

 

tunera....I am sorry you have this self destructive inner drive...and this great dissatisfaction.

 

It is very difficult on forums to not project our own demons onto others. Katielee and I have talked at length....she reached out to me...in hopes That since we both are FWS and FBS...that we might have an understanding of each others pain. Katielee is a survivor....she is not self destructive.

 

I know you have never suffered infidelity...from either side....and while you may have studied infidelity at great length...there are certain things that we just cannot relate to unless we have experienced them. Books are ever so helpful..I love the book how the help your spouse heal from your affair by linda Macdonald and i have recommended it to many others....but it is only helpful to them if they can apply it to their situation. Some can...others cannot.

[xxoo]

Who doesn't like to be adored?

 

It think validation is a common reason for people to fall into affairs. That attention is seductive, but not productive, and ironically results in a deficit of adoration and validation. It's a destructive cycle.

 

My thoughts on adoration are that it is a very special thing for a man (or woman) to simply choose to spend their days, evenings and nights by your side, day in and day out, forever and always. It says a lot, in a quiet way. It says a lot more than a new partner fawning for a short time. It's real adoration and validation. And keeping a partner interested over many years, sexually and personally, again, is a much bigger deal than they validation and adoration of new lust.

 

Recognizing that is powerful for me. It fills me up and makes me appreciate my sometimes boring marriage. Boring is great. He's here, with me, through the challenges, the ups and the downs of life, sickness and health. He must really adore me. And he does

 

And then there are the truly spectacular moments when the adoration is more explicit, and those are so fun and delicious! But they are the treats, and his daily love is the nutritious diet.

[turnera]

fwiw, my ex-fiance cheated on me for three years, with his old girlfriend. The only reason I found out was that he was driving MY car on a weekend trip and crashed it - with her in the car.

 

I broke up with him shortly after.

 

I am projecting no demons. I just happen to know a lot about things that affect people psychologically, because it's a hobby of mine, and one of the things I know about is when someone cannot be satisfied, and hurts because of it, and doesn't know why. I merely suggested a possible reason for it, which I've read a lot about. Don't know why some of you are needing to rush to defend her against some obscure slight you feel I've caused.

[Mrs. John Adams]

fwiw, my ex-fiance cheated on me for three years, with his old girlfriend. The only reason I found out was that he was driving MY car on a weekend trip and crashed it - with her in the car.

 

I broke up with him shortly after.

 

I am projecting no demons. I just happen to know a lot about things that affect people psychologically, because it's a hobby of mine, and one of the things I know about is when someone cannot be satisfied, and hurts because of it, and doesn't know why. I merely suggested a possible reason for it, which I've read a lot about. Don't know why some of you are needing to rush to defend her against some obscure slight you feel I've caused.

 

 

Oh I don't think anyone is rushing to defend her...it's just that some of us know her better than others....

 

and I don't think you have slighted her at all...you gave your opinion....and i am certain she appreciates your advice.

 

We all have hobbies...yours happens to be analyzing people based on books you have read and studied because you find it interesting.

 

I don't analyze folks based on books. Unfortunately I have lived infidelity....so my advice and understanding is from a personal perspective...one of compassion....kind of been there done that.....

 

I do my best to treat hurting people with kindness...the way I would want to be treated. Katielee and I do not always agree on things....neither do Autumnnight and I always agree. But I respect their opinions and I listen to what they have to say....and i hope i learn something from them.

 

that's what forums are for...to glean the information that can help your situation. you don't have to agree with everyone....and not everybody has advice that is helpful....but you take what you need and ignore the rest.

[autumnnight]

That is one thing I like about LS. You do not have to be cut from a special cookie cutter to have value.

[katielee]

I appreciate everyone's thoughts... I may just be struggling with a little depression as well. When I told my new IC about my FOO issues she was dismissive and said I probably tell that story many times. Thing is, I don't. I just want to turn over every stone...

[Mrs. John Adams]

that's your best option...talk to your IC....you will be fine....hang in there...and enjoy that new house!

[Hardgrind]

Katielee, this may not apply at all to your situation but I thought I would share. I am now divorced from my XW following a LTA which she never ended.

 

 

After the divorce I was discussing what happened with a mutual friend who knew my XW during her school years. My XW had a troubled childhood which included a difficult relationship with her mother, who abandoned her eventually and left it to her father and step mother to raise her.

 

 

Our mutual friend explained to me that because of her childhood my XW learned to equate drama with love. When she provoked me I responded with love, calm and understanding which was unsatisfying to her. She was hoping to get drama, yelling, etc., which is what she equates with love. So by treating in her in a way that I viewed as loving and nurturing, I evidently actually convinced her that I didn't love her. She found someone to give her all the drama she could possibly want. Go figure.

[Furious]

Don't get me wrong, I LOVE having peace in my life. But my life without drama feels... different. I don't want it back. I just still can't be deliriously happy. Yet.

 

So many good things - hubby's business was one of 15 business's of the year. So were both OW's. I wanted to go to the award ceremony - it would be a great free meal. He was nervous. I didn't think they'd come. He ended up eating half my meal (because he wanted prime rib AND lasagna) and I came home hungry - we laughed about this! But we had a great time and they were no where to be seen and I heard the other day that OW2 got reassigned to work in a city 2 hours from here - although she'll likely still shop here. I haven't told him this... I'm kind of waiting to see if he hears and tells me..

But, we have been enjoying our lake home, getting it in shape, spending time with each other...

 

It just seems strange that we have nothing to fight over. Dull. I wish I was happier. I don't seem to have pain associated with affair. I really love him and he is perfectly imperfect, just like me.

 

We are winding down from our ICs. I suspect we still disagree on many things. If we don't talk about them, there is no arguing. I do feel a need for more intimacy, although we can talk about anything under the sun except the obvious, of which what else is there to say?

 

There is nothing that gives me strong emotion anymore. Is that weird? Is it a tad scary for me. Anger was a strong emotion for a long time. It's just not there anymore. Being in an affair and that addiction was a strong emotion. No desire for that. But I just feeling something in me is missing. Does anyone else feel this way? And yes, I work out and have hobbies...

Wondering if there always needs to be a crisis and what I can do to be comfortable with no drama.

 

 

Some people thrive on drama. Maybe, drama became your "normal". Drama demands attention and high emotion. It's as though without drama and conflict you lose some sort of control. I guess this ties in with your other thread about vulnerability.

[Spectre]

I find it a tad bit disturbing you are upset there is no more drama.