Her story with full details and the Whys!

[BetrayedH]

Yeah, sure, the sex was revolting. Uh, huh. And you've got the completely unreliable polygraph results to prove it. Of course, maybe a second completely unreliable polygraph will confirm (or deny) the results of the first.

 

Yawn.

[eye of the storm]

When we are injured, we react. We jump up and down, we yell, we curse...The next day we still baby the injury but we act much more rational about it.

 

GFR, JFO so his injury is fresh. He is still jumping up and down and cursing. In time his reaction will be much more moderated. He may D, he may R.

 

Each couple who goes thru this has to find their own path. To R the BS has to find a way to live with the betrayal, forgive the WS, find ways of trusting, and move on. It takes time. For the WS they must find a way to rebuild what they destroyed, learn to live with their actions, forgive themselves, and move on. It takes time.

 

But neither person should spend the rest of their lives with the A as their main focus. If in time, with both partners working towards R, if either person cannot move on, then D is the only kind thing to do.

 

I personally have not gone thru a R process. I am just stating my opinion based on what I consider common sense.

[purdyPeas]

ummmmm, special "elite team" member? Trust is intrinsec and hammered into your head for survival.

 

You will never trust her again, no matter how remorseful and repair she shows....and she should have known that before her ONS.

 

 

 

______________

 

hey, where are these secret acronyms ya'll are using round here?

Edited September 24, 2015 by purdyPeas

[lolablue17]

You cannot ask so many questions in the poly test. You can ask something like 2-3 questions, and after that it's not reliable.

 

I think you should focus on "Is she lying?". So you can ask her is it true that she has never touched even one of the men she flirted with (as she said). Or did she do it more than ONS with him or others. The questions should not be asked by surprise. She should know the questions in advance.

 

My advice:

 

if i were you I'd give up the poly. It only will give you a sense of control. But if she agreed to it, you got your control without the need to actually do it. Rebuild your new bonding with your wife through compassion and love, not through controlling.

[sandylee1]

What I can't understand is, even if a BS knows every single detail of the A, why is that helpful? The trust has already been lost. This feeling that I can trust my spouse with my life, the desire to have a family or a life together until we are old, the easiness when I see him and so on, they are all gone. I honestly see no way to bring them back, even if I admit that what he did was a mistake, even if I believe he only loves me and begs for my forgiveness, I will forgive him and even forget in time, but this trust and intimacy without boundaries will never come back.

 

The details of the affair /ONS are very important to many BSs because they don't want any secrets between their spouse and the AP. They need to know where they went and the WS has to take the BS there and often physically demonstrate the act. It's also a desire to recreate their own special memories of those places the WS and AP had sex to reclaim what's theirs.

 

It serves to make the WS feel ashamed of what they did and this process often changes their own view of the AP. They see them in a more negative light, when they have to recount those things. They realise how cruel /selfish they were during the A. The BS often hopes that their WS kept one of 'their things' sacred, as they find a kind of comfort in that.

 

Seeing your BS have to listen (even though they ask for the info) and the pain on their face as you describe the sex with an AP is also painful to the WS and humiliating. Then they realise, they put themselves in that position.

 

The BS doesn't want to think the AP was better than them in any way, so if the AP did stuff with their spouse, they need to know if that's why it happened. With all the pain, a lot of BS's become insecure and every detail matters.

 

It can give you mind movies for years and recurring nightmares too. It's not always good to know everything though, but that is an individual choice.

 

A WS who shares these details is demonstrating remorse, as many refuse to do so.

[GrandFunkRailroad]

I've gotta be honest...reading your thread gave me alarm bells. I know youre going through a really tough time if she cheated, but I think you're being over controlling. And the way you talked about her too. The names. I just get a different feeling than other BSs. Have you always had a controlling side to you? Do you usually refer to her in the way you have in here?

 

That being said, if she really said all of that on the poly (you must have a very good memory) then she's full of BS. It sounds very made up. I don't believe, personally, for a second that she found him revolting while she let him do those things to her. No way. If she really said that, she's just downplaying hoping iy won't hurt you/your relationship as much.

 

But man, you can't keep doing this. You either need to walk away or work on your marriage. Of course you're going to have questions etc. But I'm sorry, the extent you have gone to is pretty creepy imo. And if that carries on, that's getting into abuse categories. Let her go if you have to, but don't just punish her for the rest of her life.

 

 

 

The only abuse would be probably my wife continuing lying if I didn't take the polygraph and continuing the deceit for some more months until the polygraph have been done anyway. This is what happens always. However, cutting that lying from the root and emidiately so that healing can beging this is if course mistreatment. Sure, clear as mud.

[GrandFunkRailroad]

ummmmm, special "elite team" member? Trust is intrinsec and hammered into your head for survival.

 

You will never trust her again, no matter how remorseful and repair she shows....and she should have known that before her ONS.

 

 

 

______________

 

hey, where are these secret acronyms ya'll are using round here?

 

Sure, and lack of trust and integrity this is how relationships and society are functioning.

[GrandFunkRailroad]

You cannot ask so many questions in the poly test. You can ask something like 2-3 questions, and after that it's not reliable.

 

I think you should focus on "Is she lying?". So you can ask her is it true that she has never touched even one of the men she flirted with (as she said). Or did she do it more than ONS with him or others. The questions should not be asked by surprise. She should know the questions in advance.

 

My advice:

 

if i were you I'd give up the poly. It only will give you a sense of control. But if she agreed to it, you got your control without the need to actually do it. Rebuild your new bonding with your wife through compassion and love, not through controlling.

 

 

if i were you I'd give up the poly.

Yes, why shouldn't she be encourage to lie a little bit more and who know maybe she can abuse me once more, I deserve that, no?

 

It only will give you a sense of control.

Yes, cutting the lies emmidiately instead of carrying them for month and begin the healling immediately this is control. Manipulating the spouse through lies and deceit is ann action of love and compassion

 

But if she agreed to it, you got your control without the need to actually do it.

Yeah, and cheater agree to immediately the truth because they're so honorable people at the moment,

 

Rebuild your new bonding with your wife through compassion and love, not through controlling

Sure, having naive love and stupid compassion instead of creating a wise compassion and and a self respecting love which otherwise culminates in self hate or self loathing that will create a true loving bond and relationship, but not a more manipulative, more deceitful and more controlling relationship for the WW

[purdyPeas]

It serves to make the WS feel ashamed of what they did and this process often changes their own view of the AP. They see them in a more negative light, when they have to recount those things. They realise how cruel /selfish they were during the A. The BS often hopes that their WS kept one of 'their things' sacred, as they find a kind of comfort in that.

 

Seeing your BS have to listen (even though they ask for the info) and the pain on their face as you describe the sex with an AP is also painful to the WS and humiliating.

 

Shaming is emotional and mental abuse. It will only serve to make the relationship more difficult. Tit for tat? I disagree.

 

Then they realise, they put themselves in that position.

 

Adults usually know what position they are in. That's what got them there.

[ladydesigner]

The details of the affair /ONS are very important to many BSs because they don't want any secrets between their spouse and the AP. They need to know where they went and the WS has to take the BS there and often physically demonstrate the act. It's also a desire to recreate their own special memories of those places the WS and AP had sex to reclaim what's theirs.

 

It serves to make the WS feel ashamed of what they did and this process often changes their own view of the AP. They see them in a more negative light, when they have to recount those things. They realise how cruel /selfish they were during the A. The BS often hopes that their WS kept one of 'their things' sacred, as they find a kind of comfort in that.

 

Seeing your BS have to listen (even though they ask for the info) and the pain on their face as you describe the sex with an AP is also painful to the WS and humiliating. Then they realise, they put themselves in that position.

 

The BS doesn't want to think the AP was better than them in any way, so if the AP did stuff with their spouse, they need to know if that's why it happened. With all the pain, a lot of BS's become insecure and every detail matters.

 

It can give you mind movies for years and recurring nightmares too. It's not always good to know everything though, but that is an individual choice.

 

A WS who shares these details is demonstrating remorse, as many refuse to do so.

 

Absolute spot on post. The WS should feel some humility after what they have done.

Edited September 24, 2015 by ladydesigner

[eye of the storm]

A slap to the face is an assault. Which is a crime.

[sandylee1]

Shaming is emotional and mental abuse. It will only serve to make the relationship more difficult. Tit for tat? I disagree.

 

 

 

Adults usually know what position they are in. That's what got them there.

 

The shame will is good motivation to not ever do it again. Bear in mind a lot of BSs feel ashamed that their spouse cheated. This is not a case of tit for tat.

 

If you don't feel shame after having cheating, you are NOT remorseful. You should absolutely feel ashamed.

[Confusedovo]

The only abuse would be probably my wife continuing lying if I didn't take the polygraph and continuing the deceit for some more months until the polygraph have been done anyway. This is what happens always. However, cutting that lying from the root and emidiately so that healing can beging this is if course mistreatment. Sure, clear as mud.

 

If you keep making her do polys, bend over backwards to tell you every single tiny gory detail, call her names (I'm gonna take a wild guess you've said these to her face too) and punish her for what she done...yes that is indeed a form of abuse.

 

I really have red flags about you. I've read a few BS's thread, and I understand their hurt and anger. But you seem very different to me.

 

You know what I think? I think you want to (and are going to) watch her suffer for what she did. Which Is going to make you a very controlling and cruel person. BS's may fantasise about their partner suffering, but that's not usually their aim.

 

So how many more polys does she have to take for you?

[ladydesigner]

If you keep making her do polys, bend over backwards to tell you every single tiny gory detail, call her names (I'm gonna take a wild guess you've said these to her face too) and punish her for what she done...yes that is indeed a form of abuse.

 

If this is abuse then I have done it too. I am both a WS and a BS, and my WH's continued adulterous behavior at my expense came at his too. While I did not make my WH take a poly, I have made him spill or have confronted with evidence the gory details of the A. I have also called him names and unfortunately hit him after Dday2 (I am very lucky to not be in jail and I get how wrong it is what I did). I feel this is more common than not after a Dday. Not all reactions to trauma are the same. Infidelity is a trauma too. At some point though the punishment needs to stop.

[NewLeaf512]

to some if not most. having an affair is equal to murder.

ever get that song by rihanna "unfaithful" she refers to her self as a murderer for being unfaithful.

cause you technically "took away his life".

 

 

m.snow.. May I ask if you have ever known or been related to anyone who has been murdered?

 

 

what about if the MoM or MoW wanted to reconcile with the BS, who wouldn't and then the MoM or MoW murdered their BS for not reconciling? Murder/death/suicide are never the answers to infidelity and if you have had this experience you would never say such a thing.

[NewLeaf512]

Absolute spot on post. The WS should feel some humility after what they have done.

 

 

humility and humiliation seem to be different things to me

[ladydesigner]

humility and humiliation seem to be different things to me

 

I think they are, I felt humility when I told my WH of my revenge affair and felt humiliation when my WH's A was discovered.

 

My WH on the other hand has not shown me humility for his A's in which case I have, at times, humiliated him. Not saying it's right, but it has happened I have to admit.

[NewLeaf512]

GFR, there is no need to war with those that wish to inflict. Simply ignor and move on. There is a hateful lot here, but some who do wish to assist, from both sides.

 

It appears that you are looking for any way not to divorce or more specificaly to find a way to forgive and reconcile AFTER a divorce. The exception. This is probaly why the truth is important. As LS has shown, taking the word of the unfaithful as gospel, is ridiculous. Your wife appears to understand this, and BY HER REQUEST, she us willing to back it up with a poly.

 

The real question appears to be, (and it is typical) Is a ONS less of a crime than a full A. Is the ONS and all its reasons the "exception" that you spoke of.. her reasons appear to be a power struggle. She felt less than, so she acted irrationally . Flirting was her control, that slupped out of control.

 

Whether you find this to be the "exception" to the rule can not be answered by any of us. I think you really have to look at her actions after the fact. If you are looking for advice and opinions, mine would be to divorce. Actions have consequences. But I would also look at trying to keep the possibility of forgiveness and rebuilding only if your "exception" proves true as a viable option.

 

In your last thread, I posted that if any WW deserved reconciliation, it was this one. Based on this new thread, my position hasnt changed. Divorcing is not giving a second chance. Reconnecting after the divorce is accepting the flaw as human, forgiving and building a better tomorrow. You still love this woman deeply. You are still very hurt. But you still havent kicked her to the curb. If what she says proves true, and there is any possibility of a tomorrow with her, you must disarm. Find your truth and accept it. Tomorrow is not today.

 

Be smart now. Dont damage your tomorrow because of today. Strength and Honor.

 

 

Best and sanest post in the thread. Whatever you decide to do, and as you just recently found out, of course you are devastated and angry.

 

 

You need time to think, meditate, pray or whatever works for you until you can get into MC but please for at least a little bit, think of you and take care of you and focus on you. Putting your WW (no matter if she agrees) through a military style court marshal is not going to help.

 

 

And just so you don't have to read through my super long thread, I did come here as an OW who was initially tricked into an A with someone who said it was separated, who I never saw again in person but did after a few months talk to and essentially have an EA with.

 

 

HOWEVER: prior to that, the only man who I had ever been with, my H, did something inconceivable and got another woman pregnant. I threw him out. he tried many times to reconcile with me which I would not do, he broke into my home in the night, hid, and then when I walked by (and I had girl friends at my home for a social thing, jumped out of his hiding place, started shooting, shot someone in the head and then shot himself in the head when we were standing less than 5 inches apart and killed himself.

I tell you this because shame/ redemption/ rage/ hate/ love etc are all very strong emotions and without temperance can explode.

 

 

Please look after you, spinning yourself out about this and driving yourself crazy trying to unpick every word, expression, etc is hurting you right now. Can you take a break until you start MC?

[sandylee1]

If you keep making her do polys, bend over backwards to tell you every single tiny gory detail, call her names (I'm gonna take a wild guess you've said these to her face too) and punish her for what she done...yes that is indeed a form of abuse.

 

I really have red flags about you. I've read a few BS's thread, and I understand their hurt and anger. But you seem very different to me.

 

You know what I think? I think you want to (and are going to) watch her suffer for what she did. Which Is going to make you a very controlling and cruel person. BS's may fantasise about their partner suffering, but that's not usually their aim.

 

So how many more polys does she have to take for you?

 

Much of what the OP is doing is normal for a BS.

 

Below are things many BSs do and the OP is quite normal at this point. He may come over with more anger, but we are all individuals and I have seen much worse reactions than this.

 

When the love of your life betrays you it's akin to a trauma. A betrayal comes with consequences and these and the feelings a WS gets at the time are nothing compared to what they've done.

 

Getting a poly done

Asking for intricate details

Asking for a timeline of the affair / ONS

Asking about the AP

Asking what the WS was thinking before, during and after

Name calling

Saying you hate the WS

Making the WS sleep on the couch

Requesting a change of job

 

OP - It really does seem your wife has shown humility and is prepared to do anything you ask. Many BSs would like (as bad as betrayal is) to have a WS like your wife. To have her confession recorded - well she has opened herself up to you without hesitation and if you could find it in you to consider reconciling, it is worth trying.

 

Apart from not having cheated, after the act itself, I don't know what more she can do, but she should expect and believe that divorce is a very real outcome here.

 

The one thing she said..about not thinking it would end in divorce got my attention, because an awful lot of cheaters seem confident that even on discovery, that their spouse will not divorce them.

[purdyPeas]

The shame will is good motivation to not ever do it again. Bear in mind a lot of BSs feel ashamed that their spouse cheated. This is not a case of tit for tat.

 

If you don't feel shame after having cheating, you are NOT remorseful. You should absolutely feel ashamed.

 

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree that a non sociopath will feel guilt and shame after cheating on their own if they loved their mate.

 

Doesn't mean rubbing their nose in it is healthy or right.

 

My brother did this to his wife. Made her work in a strip club of his buddies. Guess what? 7 years later she has had two more affairs and states she does not love him anymore. Maybe even bisexual. Yeah, shaming worked all right.

 

Furthermore, this op is a special ops elite. You just don't toss their trust away, when usually their lives depend on trust and staying alive. He will never trust her again.

[NewLeaf512]

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree that a non sociopath will feel guilt and shame after cheating on their own if they loved their mate.

 

Doesn't mean rubbing their nose in it is healthy or right.

 

My brother did this to his wife. Made her work in a strip club of his buddies. Guess what? 7 years later she has had two more affairs and states she does not love him anymore. Maybe even bisexual. Yeah, shaming worked all right.

 

Furthermore, this op is a special ops elite. You just don't toss their trust away, when usually their lives depend on trust and staying alive. He will never trust her again.

 

 

 

I have so much respect for our service people all around the world. I know freedom isn't free, that it is built on the blood and bodies of those who made the ultimate sacrifice and that is one of the reasons I became first a lawyer and then a Barrister for the Crown Prosecution Service before going into a different specialist area.

There is one thing I completely agree with: he will never trust her again, because in OP world, trusting the traitor can cost you your life.

 

 

However this is a marriage and I have seen this many times before with service people (there is a charity in the UK that was originally only for current or former service people called jaflas and recently has gone a bit off kilter)

 

 

If there is any hope of this being rebuilt for OP sanity he must stop treating his WW as if she is in a POW camp. It wont be good for either one of them.

[m.snow]

m.snow.. May I ask if you have ever known or been related to anyone who has been murdered?

 

what about if the MoM or MoW wanted to reconcile with the BS, who wouldn't and then the MoM or MoW murdered their BS for not reconciling? Murder/death/suicide are never the answers to infidelity and if you have had this experience you would never say such a thing.

 

talking about murder in an emotional sense not literal murder. ie referenced to a song (rihanna/unfaithful)... In cases of Infidelity that the feeling of having being betrayed is same or even worse than someone getting murdered.

 

the feeling BS can never be minimized.

 

suicide in the family yes, uncle died coz his wife had an A with an aussie priest. wife was sent to jail in my home country having an affair can land you in the slammer.

 

but you know you just have to love it when an OW comments on JFO case. as if there is no empathy on the time line of recovery. people go through phases after just having found out. and this mans experience is no different from a million others.

 

BS always seek for lie detector test. its a defense mechanism. makes them feel safe again in there shattered world. they will eventually get over wanting it.

Edited September 25, 2015 by m.snow

[NewLeaf512]

talking about murder in an emotional sense not literal murder. ie referenced to a song (rihanna/unfaithful)... In cases of Infidelity that the feeling of having being betrayed is same or even worse than someone getting murdered.

 

the feeling BS can never be minimized.

 

suicide in the family yes, uncle died coz his wife had an A with an aussie priest. wife was sent to jail in my home country having an affair can land you in the slammer.

 

 

No one can or should minimise anyone's pain BS or otherwise. With experience I can tell you my H getting another woman pregnant was like being tickled to the pain I suffered after an actual shooting. That is my experience and my opinion

[ladydesigner]

[quote=NewLeaf512;6561559

 

HOWEVER: prior to that, the only man who I had ever been with, my H, did something inconceivable and got another woman pregnant. I threw him out. he tried many times to reconcile with me which I would not do, he broke into my home in the night, hid, and then when I walked by (and I had girl friends at my home for a social thing, jumped out of his hiding place, started shooting, shot someone in the head and then shot himself in the head when we were standing less than 5 inches apart and killed himself.

I tell you this because shame/ redemption/ rage/ hate/ love etc are all very strong emotions and without temperance can explode./QUOTE]

 

Wow this is a great example of what can happen. So sorry you went through something so horrific! It definitely puts perspective on emotions gone wild.

[sandylee1]

Oh, I wholeheartedly agree that a non sociopath will feel guilt and shame after cheating on their own if they loved their mate.

 

Doesn't mean rubbing their nose in it is healthy or right.

 

My brother did this to his wife. Made her work in a strip club of his buddies. Guess what? 7 years later she has had two more affairs and states she does not love him anymore. Maybe even bisexual. Yeah, shaming worked all right.

 

Furthermore, this op is a special ops elite. You just don't toss their trust away, when usually their lives depend on trust and staying alive. He will never trust her again.

 

I can't see how working in a strip club was ever a good idea. That's only going to push her in the path of more men. Would you get an alcoholic to work in a liquor store? Pure Madness.

What kind of man MAKES his wife work anywhere? Much less a strip club, full of lecherous men.

 

That she agreed to (unless she wanted to work there), was not wise , however the affairs were her choice.

 

You say rubbing their nose in it? I don't see that happening here and it's only being discussed like this between the two of them.

 

If taking a poly makes the WS feel shame, then tough. Cheaters are liars and verification is sometimes needed. In this case the WS wants to do the poly. The poly examiners are used to it .

 

It's recommended that you don't ask more than 5 questions. The responses are yes or no only.

 

You don't get to cheat and not expect some degree of shame , it just doesn't work like that.