Her story with full details and the Whys!

[purdyPeas]

No, you are the one who brought specifically "It serves to make whoever the acronyms are for to be ashamed.

Originally Posted by sandylee1

It serves to make the WS feel ashamed of what they did and this process often changes their own view of the AP. They see them in a more negative light, when they have to recount those things. They realise how cruel /selfish they were during the A. The BS often hopes that their WS kept one of 'their things' sacred, as they find a kind of comfort in that.

 

Seeing your BS have to listen (even though they ask for the info) and the pain on their face as you describe the sex with an AP is also painful to the WS and humiliating.

Shaming is emotional and mental abuse. It will only serve to make the relationship more difficult. Tit for tat? I disagree.

Then they realise, they put themselves in that position.

Adults usually know what position they are in. That's what got them there. Edited September 25, 2015 by purdyPeas

[Horton]

So a marriage could potentially survive an affair, just not a polygraph? Is this really where we're at now in society? A wife risking her husbands mental, physical and emotional health plus the stability of her children's lives to satisfy the crotch monster is viewed as merely an error in judgment, something that she could easily bounce back from with a bit of 'inner child' style therapy and a couple of infidelity related books on her shelf?

 

But a husband requesting his cheating wife answer some questions asked by a trained professional is viewed as controlling behavior, spousal abuse or even wholly unforgivable? OP I don't know how accurate polygraphs are(or aren't) but I do know that you asking her to take one doesn't make you a heartless monster as some are making it sound like. Don't be too surprised at the vitriol GFR, you have the penis so naturally you're the bad guy.

[Popsicle]

Sounds it this will turn into a love-hate relationship. How lovely.

[66Charger]

The ignorance that shaming is emotional abuse is cheaterthink 101. Of course there should be no shame for what you have done. Its everyones fault but yours. Of course the BS should take your word and not verify. We all know cheating DOES NOT include lying. Of course you should protect your ws reputation and not put her/him through unnecessary stress, this is exactly what they did for the BS. Pillows and tissues only. You do the crime you do the time, BUT NOT A WS!! lord no. Be gentle BS. Swallow the dirt. Eat the shot sandwhich. If you the BS feels humiliation and shame, GET OVER IT ALREADY. But why Tear down someone who feels integrity is more than a word in a spelling bee.

 

So for those who think that way, I ask

 

Dont you have any shame?

 

Didnt think so.

 

Strength and Honor.

 

Spelled H. O. N. O. R. (Slowly becoming a ancient word) Have we really fallen so far?

Edited September 25, 2015 by 66Charger

[lolablue17]

if i were you I'd give up the poly.

Yes, why shouldn't she be encourage to lie a little bit more and who know maybe she can abuse me once more, I deserve that, no?

 

It only will give you a sense of control.

Yes, cutting the lies emmidiately instead of carrying them for month and begin the healling immediately this is control. Manipulating the spouse through lies and deceit is ann action of love and compassion

 

But if she agreed to it, you got your control without the need to actually do it.

Yeah, and cheater agree to immediately the truth because they're so honorable people at the moment,

 

Rebuild your new bonding with your wife through compassion and love, not through controlling

Sure, having naive love and stupid compassion instead of creating a wise compassion and and a self respecting love which otherwise culminates in self hate or self loathing that will create a true loving bond and relationship, but not a more manipulative, more deceitful and more controlling relationship for the WW

 

Your wife came to you and told you voluntarily. It's not the classical case of a manipulator and a liar. You may have your legitimate doubts but if you were really suspecting she's a liar, I don't think you would even consider to reconcile.

 

I think that you believe your wife. So all the answers you gave me here, they just don't fit to your story as you told us. You're using an atomic bomb against a small mouse. I still think that you're wasting energy to attack the wrong enemy. I'm at your side, but I'm not sure this is the right way to heal.

[66Charger]

I think the poly is the right way to heal. And part of the reason why I think that way is because I believe she will pass. Her post actions have merit.

 

However the second poly is ridiculous. Either accept the results of the first poly or dont do it at all. I agree with the other side here. The first poly is deserved. The second is humiliation and totaly unnecessary.

 

Cancel the second poly and tell your wife that you did. Call it mercy, call it humanity, call it whatever. Just dont do it.

[Dwade]

theres something fishy about her story. You can't tell me affair sex didn't feel good because of the illicit nature that it provides so any cheater saying that don't kid yourself. I'd say just divorce her and co parent with her. The kids will actually APPRECIATE you for everything. Tell her to go back to her affair partner as I think that's the dumbest reason for her to resent you.

[sandylee1]

No, you are the one who brought specifically "It serves to make whoever the acronyms are for to be ashamed. Shaming is emotional and mental abuse. It will only serve to make the relationship more difficult. Tit for tat? I disagree. Adults usually know what position they are in. That's what got them there.

 

Unfortunately wrong doing comes with a degree of shame and that's the risk a cheating spouse takes. From a purely logical view point, I struggle to understand that very basis concept is hard to accept.

 

If I were a cheating spouse, I wouldn't want the shame either, but it would be on my own head.

 

An employee may feel ashamed they face disciplinary action at work for something wrong. Just as work has rules, so does marriage (unless it's an open one) and not cheating is just about the easiest one to follow. It doesn't take a lot of effort to stick to this particular rule and a whole lot of effort goes into the cheating, lying and sneaking around in affairs.

 

This was a one off incident, so I don't believe it falls in that category of constant lies. The OPs wife doesn't seem like the type of woman who can conduct an affair, because it's not in her character. She felt so bad after this incident and has since tried to do all the right things . That doesn't automatically mean move on and forget about it though.

 

All the remorse in the world DOES NOT guarantee a second chance. Reconciliation is a gift that many take for granted.

[GrandFunkRailroad]

66Charger

 

You mentioned here a few things in two of your posts and i'll try to adress them. First of all, the question of divorce and post - divorce reconciliation. I do not necessarily disagree with what you said but it also depends alot on how you, how your spouse and on what foundation the post marriage reconciliation is built. You mentioned cheaterthink 101; i fully agree. However, I still didn't post all of our plan which up until now was suggested by my wife, simply because I don't want to mix them as well as on the light of hate here I'm not sure it will be effective, but what you've seen is only a small portion of my wife's responsibilities and consequences she agrrees to bear out of her own free will. I'll just state that at least one thing that she understands is the law of cause and effect and on many levels. To sum her suggestions up and her willingness to bear the consequences, so having understood that having hurt and wounded me that much, she must be willing to at least in theory be completely vulnerable to me and put her all defenses down which in turn proves to me that her remorse and regret is genuine and not kind of show.

 

The things she offered me are so profound and in my favor that it would be stupid to not accept them, while from her side they could really ruin her life. Her suggestions practically put her at my mercy. Sure, she could survive, but she still have a life that is ruined. If I was such an evil monster and abuser (as men should be, no?) I would have taken her offer and then kick her to the curb. Yet, if I will accept her offer I am not going to do so hence at least in my eyes I would hate seeing myself each morning in the mirror. Even if it would not work I will not let her ruin her life; that is out of question. For me what she has suggested also proves other things: she was selfish, now she tries to get rid of it by being selfless; she had a lot of privileges that she had abused, now she understands it will take a certain time to get them back by being worthy and honorable person; she hurt me, now she is willing to be vulnerable and put all of her difenses down (which I will not take advantage of and abuse); she took me for granted and used me as property and an object, now she is prepares for the long and hard work to see me as a real human beinf.

 

 

Being that said and taken into consideration that reconciliation and us eventually remarrying is no more granted but dependent on fixing herself and other aspects, it's not only me not risking anything but especially laying the foundation for eventaully true reconciliation not me hypocritically suppressing my suffering pretending and claiming that my suffering is actually a blissful happiness. If haven't seen that from my wife I would have been already gone. Reality, not that virtual and artificial one, propagated through what you correctly defined as cheaterthinking 101 is totally different than the ignorance those people try to spread. I know that once we agree on the terms hard work for everyone is included. For sure for me too. Yet, no matter how important for me it is more important for as the truth of easy comes, easy goes, is still valid. Once, you have worked hard for something you appreciate it. Yet, that will come too when the sight is cleared by truth and I am going to know what I am facing as well as a reasonable and consentual framework is set. By the way, given all of that and having thout about it I have decided not to take another polygraph.

 

 

Anyway, I think I also have to rethink if continue to post in forums hence as other posters mentioned and was pointing to the hate towards men who are not willing to submit themself to further abuse through ignorance is astounding here. I think even the most disgusting criminals got more compassion than such men as was shown here

Edited September 25, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator

[pheonixrisen]

If you keep making her do polys, bend over backwards to tell you every single tiny gory detail, call her names (I'm gonna take a wild guess you've said these to her face too) and punish her for what she done...yes that is indeed a form of abuse.

 

I really have red flags about you. I've read a few BS's thread, and I understand their hurt and anger. But you seem very different to me.

 

You know what I think? I think you want to (and are going to) watch her suffer for what she did. Which Is going to make you a very controlling and cruel person. BS's may fantasise about their partner suffering, but that's not usually their aim.

 

So how many more polys does she have to take for you?

 

What gfr is doing is actually very normal/common reaction and direct result of emotional distress in the JFO stage ...His wife reaction to be willing to do all it takes is also a very common reaction from ws trying to save their marriage ...any number of B's would more than gladly put their ws through poly if it was just around the corner and at their disposal....

 

From my own personal experience my h offered to take one ...We did not get to that ...hell I was so messed up in the jfo stage I would not believe him if he took a poly or the poly itself ...op even if your wife takes several poly it will ease your mind momentary ...but for a long time to come you will still question /back check everything she says or does whether openly or behind their back ...to make sure you are not being played for a fool .....

 

confusedovo this is not a jab or attack at you but I hope you pay close attention to this ...this is a bs who just found out about his wife ons ...and pay attention to what is happening ....perhaps it will give you some awareness to put a stop to your pursue of the married man with a pregnant wife at home ....your last paragraph I could have written for you ......

After repeatedly being told about the how your actions affects the woman who is about to become a casualty in your fun ...you seem to be okay .....A lot of people esp mewould even find you as bad news or red flag ..if you are living in a glass house don't throw stones at people outside ...

Edited September 25, 2015 by pheonixrisen

[World's.Edge]

My brother did this to his wife. Made her work in a strip club of his buddies.

Uh:confused:.. what? Why on Earth did he think that was a good idea? What he did was moronic, and vastly different to the situation with GrandFunkRailroad and his wife.

 

Shaming is emotional and mental abuse.

Yes, shaming can be emotional and mental abuse, however that is not the case in this situation. I do not see where the shaming and emotional abuse come in.

 

If it was with the polygraph, nothing hard or abusive about taking a polygraph. You sit in a chair attached to a few apparatus and answer questions. You can literally stand up and walk away if you want to or take a selfie..

 

I don't see how wanting to find out the truth constitutes as rubbing one's nose in it, abuse or humiliation. In any situation where some form of damage or harm happens as a result (car crash, crime, failed surgery, etc), questions are asked and the truth is sought out.

 

With cheating, trust is destroyed. The adulterer's word can't be taken as the undeniable truthful, and also keep in mind that cheaters tend to lie, minimize, trickle-truth, etc. Some cheaters are oblivious, entitled, defiant or unremorseful in their behaviour, and consequences, which sometimes include feeling shame (different from shaming) helps them to see the harmful nature and reality of their actions.

[Ladyjane14]

theres something fishy about her story. You can't tell me affair sex didn't feel good because of the illicit nature that it provides so any cheater saying that don't kid yourself. I'd say just divorce her and co parent with her. The kids will actually APPRECIATE you for everything. Tell her to go back to her affair partner as I think that's the dumbest reason for her to resent you.

 

I have to wonder if you've actually really met any women... because it doesn't take much to snuff out sexual interest during the act.

 

If I'm remembering the original post correctly, this couple has four special needs children. If there's a way to pull this family back together, that would be in all their best interests.

[Ladyjane14]

Being asked to take a polygraph isn't cruel or unusual in the JFO stage. In order for any recovery to begin, there has to be at least a kernel of trust established. A betrayed spouse is facing a DEMONSTRATED liar, and reeling from a traumatic stress injury which has caused a physiological state of hyperarousal. Suggested reading.. The Body Keeps Score by Bessel van der Kolk. What you find out is that it takes some work and it takes some time to reconnect the primitive emotional brain to the higher thought-controlled functions of the frontal cortex.

 

The good news is that the WW volunteered the information and she seems willing to work with him to establish a safe space for recovery. And while it's true that there's only a short period of time before measures like polygraphing become detrimental, for right now, he's doing what needs to be done in order to begin negotiations.

[purdyPeas]

Uh:confused:.. what? Why on Earth did he think that was a good idea? What he did was moronic' date=' and vastly different to the situation with [b']GrandFunkRailroad[/b] and his wife.

 

 

Yes, shaming can be emotional and mental abuse, however that is not the case in this situation. I do not see where the shaming and emotional abuse come in.

 

If it was with the polygraph, nothing hard or abusive about taking a polygraph. You sit in a chair attached to a few apparatus and answer questions. You can literally stand up and walk away if you want to or take a selfie..

 

I don't see how wanting to find out the truth constitutes as rubbing one's nose in it, abuse or humiliation. In any situation where some form of damage or harm happens as a result (car crash, crime, failed surgery, etc), questions are asked and the truth is sought out.

 

With cheating, trust is destroyed. The adulterer's word can't be taken as the undeniable truthful, and also keep in mind that cheaters tend to lie, minimize, trickle-truth, etc. Some cheaters are oblivious, entitled, defiant or unremorseful in their behaviour, and consequences, which sometimes include feeling shame (different from shaming) helps them to see the harmful nature and reality of their actions.

 

um, I did not bring up shaming specifically, I only pointed out that it would further serve to destroy the relationship from sandylee's post.

 

Yes, it was moronic of my brother (military NCO) to do this. Our family found out about it a week later and told him he couldn't do that to her. We don't know how long it might have continued. She embezzled quite a large sum from his company during an affair also. Ruined him. High school sweeathearts. They are divorcing now, 7 yrs later. Her 3rd affair.

 

anyways, depending on if he's still calling her names or not, is she the victim now in this thread? The DOJ might think so, for emotional abuse is part of domestic abuse.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/cd/4f/79/cd4f79003e3de60fc64f103856c6d9b1.jpg

 

http://www.med.umich.edu/abusehurts/abuse_emotional.pdf

 

Shaming is right in there with Emotional abuse.

 

Yes, perhaps a one time poly is enough. How long is shaming going on if it's okay? Some people are thinking a punishment for infidelity is justified? It's not illegal, nor against the law.

 

Yes, rubbing her nose in it.

 

Normal people will feel shame and guilt no matter what. How hard does one have to try to shame a sociopath? ....and for how long?

 

just saying.

 

Don't think it will help any relationship. The woman admitted to it, and wants to work on the marriage. Shaming does not qualify as working things out from his end. Does it?

 

Some twisted thinking going on here.....living in the forums.

[url=https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/cd/4f/79/cd4f79003e3de60fc64f103856c6d9b1.jpg][/url]

[World's.Edge]

So a marriage could potentially survive an affair, just not a polygraph? Is this really where we're at now in society? A wife risking her husbands mental, physical and emotional health plus the stability of her children's lives to satisfy the crotch monster is viewed as merely an error in judgment, something that she could easily bounce back from with a bit of 'inner child' style therapy and a couple of infidelity related books on her shelf?

 

But a husband requesting his cheating wife answer some questions asked by a trained professional is viewed as controlling behavior, spousal abuse or even wholly unforgivable? OP I don't know how accurate polygraphs are(or aren't) but I do know that you asking her to take one doesn't make you a heartless monster as some are making it sound like. Don't be too surprised at the vitriol GFR, you have the penis so naturally you're the bad guy.

Why am I only allowed to 'like' this once!!

[m.snow]

 

Some people are thinking a punishment for infidelity is justified? It's not illegal, nor against the law.

 

 

my country certainly punishes infidelity to large extent. jail time of 3-5 years

[purdyPeas]

my country certainly punishes infidelity to large extent. jail time of 3-5 years

 

Some countries cut off womens noses or ears too. sheesh.

[m.snow]

Some countries cut off womens noses or ears too. sheesh.

and in the United States of A. Adultery remains a criminal offense in 21 states, although prosecutions are rare

[sandylee1]

um, I did not bring up shaming specifically, I only pointed out that it would further serve to destroy the b from sandylee's post.

 

Yes, it was moronic of my brother (military NCO) to do this. Our family found out about it a week later and told him he couldn't do that to her. We don't know how long it might have continued. She embezzled quite a large sum from his company during an affair also. Ruined him. High school sweeathearts. They are divorcing now, 7 yrs later. Her 3rd affair.

 

anyways, depending on if he's still calling her names or not, is she the victim now in this thread? The DOJ might think so, for emotional abuse is part of domestic abuse.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/cd/4f/79/cd4f79003e3de60fc64f103856c6d9b1.jpg

 

http://www.med.umich.edu/abusehurts/abuse_emotional.pdf

 

Shaming is right in there with Emotional abuse.

 

Yes, perhaps a one time poly is enough. How long is shaming going on if it's okay? Some people are thinking a punishment for infidelity is justified? It's not illegal, nor against the law.

 

Yes, rubbing her nose in it.

 

Normal people will feel shame and guilt no matter what. How hard does one have to try to shame a sociopath? ....and for how long?

 

just saying.

 

Don't think it will help any relationship. The woman admitted to it, and wants to work on the marriage. Shaming does not qualify as working things out from his end. Does it?

 

Some twisted thinking going on here.....living in the forums.

[url=https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/cd/4f/79/cd4f79003e3de60fc64f103856c6d9b1.jpg][/url]

 

There is a difference between punishment and consequences. I believe consequences are taking place in this case - not punishment.

 

I would add that just because something is not a crime , it doesn't mean one escapes consequences. Countless things aren't crimes, but that doesn't get you off the hook. There are crimes and there are rules, regulations and policies in the appropriate situations. If you go against one of those, there are consequences and a failure to comprehend this shows a failure to accept personal responsibility.

[m.snow]

um, I did not bring up shaming specifically, I only pointed out that it would further serve to destroy the relationship from sandylee's post.

 

anyways, depending on if he's still calling her names or not, is she the victim now in this thread? The DOJ might think so, for emotional abuse is part of domestic abuse.

https://s-media-cache-ak0.pinimg.com/736x/cd/4f/79/cd4f79003e3de60fc64f103856c6d9b1.jpg

 

http://www.med.umich.edu/abusehurts/abuse_emotional.pdf

 

Shaming is right in there with Emotional abuse.

 

Yes, perhaps a one time poly is enough. How long is shaming going on if it's okay? Some people are thinking a punishment for infidelity is justified? It's not illegal, nor against the law.

 

oh btw in the US military. i think adultery still carries a hefty punishment

 

its not shaming or emotional abuse if the wife agreed to lie detector test.

 

its emotional abuse if it is sustained or constant.

 

other than that luckily we have a court system that takes into the specifics of each case. and the reason why such incident occurred. ie infidelity. among military personnel?

[autumnnight]

As far as the polygraph goes, the OP said his wife OFFERED the poly. So he isn't "making" her take a polygraph. He is taking her up on her offer. And honestly, since polygraphs are NOT reliable (no matter what anyone says), I can see the logic in taking more than one given by different examiners.

 

The reason I believe divorce is best for this couple has nothing to do with what I am seeing right now. Much of the action and reaction I am seeing right now is just post D-day trauma 101. It is some of the more pointed thoughts, the underlying belief and attitude....that gives me a pretty good idea of how this union will look in 3, 5, or 8 years that makes me believe that divorce is the best option for everyone involved, including the children.

[purdyPeas]

oh btw in the US military. i think adultery still carries a hefty punishment

:laugh:

 

Is that anything like women soldier raping that I witnessed in an Armory during my stint in the ARMY from male drill seargants in command of a company of 200 women? Without military prosecution of course for the perpetrators. All pushed under the rug. First LT's were wise about it too.

 

Rare that our military prosecutes anything much related to sex.

[m.snow]

:laugh:

 

Is that anything like women soldier raping that I witnessed in an Armory during my stint in the ARMY from male drill seargants in command of a company of 200 women? Without military prosecution of course for the perpetrators. All pushed under the rug. First LT's were wise about it too.

 

Rare that our military prosecutes anything much related to sex.

 

I see where your coming from and I believe that to be a hurtful to experience such injustice.

[World's.Edge]

Yes, it was moronic of my brother (military NCO) to do this. Our family found out about it a week later and told him he couldn't do that to her. We don't know how long it might have continued. She embezzled quite a large sum from his company during an affair also. Ruined him. High school sweeathearts. They are divorcing now, 7 yrs later. Her 3rd affair.ome twisted thinking going on here.....living in the forums.

Well she seems lovely:confused:. A serial adulterer and a thief. It's highly likely that she would have cheated regardless of his misguided attempt to.. whatever he was trying to accomplish by having her work at a strip club.

 

anyways, depending on if he's still calling her names or not, is she the victim now in this thread? The DOJ might think so, for emotional abuse is part of domestic abuse.

 

I'm unfamiliar with his other thread (which is like a thousand pages long and I'm not going to put myself through that), so I'm not aware of any instances of name calling, but in this thread he wrote about having her take a polygraph and to some that constitutes abuse?

 

 

With regard to the 'shaming' definition you provided, a very important component was omitted, and that is intent. The manipulator/shamer acts deliberately, with purpose and clear intent. Their intention is to humiliate, instill fear and demean their victim. Additionally, context is also important.

 

 

Normal people will feel shame and guilt no matter what.

I'm sorry but that is just not true. It may hold true for some but not all people. Visit The Other Man / Woman section of this forum and see how quickly that notion is obliterated.

 

I have an older cousin in his late thirties (or early forties) who is going through a divorce because he cheated on his wife and has a baby with his now girlfriend. He and his wife have three children together. He's a nice guy, decent, hard-working, generous, really proper. He has absolutely ZER0 guilt, shame or remorse over his adultery. His solitary struggle in all of this is how much of his money and assets he stands to lose in the divorce.

 

(Normal) people can rationalize and justify their behaviour to themselves or just not care or feel guilt. Someone doesn't have to be a sociopath or narcissist to not feel shame or guilt. The ability to feel guilt and shame depends one's moral compass, their abiliy to rationalize, upbringing, social environment, culture, etc. Not all people feel shame and guilt for what we think one should feel those over.

 

Just as you're refering to his behaviour as emotional and mental abuse, then so too can her adultery be classified as such. Infidelity has been refered to as a form of abuse on occasion. It can be traumatic and resultant in the same symptoms.

 

The emotional and psychological trauma, depression, PTSD and anxiety, it all lines up with the symptoms of emotional and mental abuse..

 

However, I'm not going to refer to her cheating as abuse the same way his behaviour and reaction to his wife cheating on him shouldn't be refered to as abusive and controlling.

 

I am aware though that adultery can result in the betrayed spouse being controlling, paranoid and abusive. I just don't see it here.

[SummerDreams]

In my opinion this couple should work things out sooner than later for the kids' sake. The help of a councelor will be crucial. Kids are the victims here and the sooner this family gets back together, the better for them.