gettingstronger Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I have found that you can not judge how someone decides to handle infidelity- it seems to me that our gut reaction takes over and we do what we do when we find out we were betrayed- there is a lot I would change about my initial handling of my husbands betrayal- lots I disagree with that I did myself- its tough stuff so tread lightly- 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Spectre Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Sure, and lack of trust and integrity this is how relationships and society are functioning. The problem here is you have a lack of love and respect..in addition to the lack of integrity and all that. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 and in the United States of A. Adultery remains a criminal offense in 21 states, although prosecutions are rare In which states is cheating on your spouse illegal? | Detroit Free Press | freep.com For more in depth information. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr1oyalty Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I felt much of what your wife said about her feelings after the sex was truthful as I felt many of the same things after the A sex. I somewhat could relate but something she is certainly hiding I see that does not make sense or maybe you didn't ask the right question? She admits that at this stage she was still thinking very selfishly and concentrating on herself. I was still not a part of that picture. Anyway, when scum of earth was finished (he pulled out) it was when reality really hit her. It was according to her like a train that hit her with full speed. For me everything hit me like a train, or came back in the picture as your wife says after the climax. Its because I was blinded by passion and lust that it hit me in this way, the high drops fast after climax. I didn't care about anything but how good I was feeling, and my wife nor daughter didn't exist during sex, I don't even know if I was conscious of the fact that I was married it so intense. Just the raw sad truth. So when it ended the high was over now reality came crashing down as fast as the orgasm passes. Who you hurt, how much, what you did, who you are ect are all the things that come to you. In your wife's case she makes it sound like there was absolutely nothing she got out of it, and its certainly a lie. She has tried to say maybe the alcohol climax wore off, she knows and you know that does not make sense because alcohol does not drop off instantly like that. There was something she was trying to achieve, and when it came to the culmination or climax, reality hit her hard and fast. If not an orgasm, something was completed in that moment, something that she wanted! "she admits that at this stage she was still thinking very selfishly and concentrating on herself" What about herself was she concentrating on? Her hair? This is where she is hiding what she actually did unless she is claiming temporary insanity? It could be many things but there was a goal to it all and she achieved it in the in she did not go away empty handed. She sort of told you I think and gave it away. Maybe revenge on you due to resentment? What ever it was when she purchased it she had buyers remorse. I don't know for certain but that feeling and rush of reality is not from alcohol as she says. It comes once your strong lust for sex or revenge or violence or something that fulfilled. Its similar to if you've ever gone way to far in a fight or come close and you were in the wrong? Once you fulfilled your lust quota reality hits. That is what its like.I feel if you don't know what she was got out of it, and she has not admitted it to herself there is no way to defend safely against it again. I feel if you are considering staying you would need to know that, then make an informed decision. She would need to know too for her own self reflection as well.The problem you may have though is she may have been seeking to hurt you which is a different thing to accept. The evidence that she is lying is quite heavy to the point you dont need a lie detector. At one point she says you were not even in the picture she was "focused on her self" but then before "Once in the act itself, she thought that already breaking the boundary what doesn't it matter anymore so she'll wait till it ends. She was also thinking that I will be mad but did not saw a divorce coming. You definitely were in the picture! There are enough contradictions in her story that allow you to scrape the lie detector test all together. She says "he did not lead" and he "lacked confidence" yet she is the one who suffered through the whole thing. This does not appear to be some one night lapse of judgment but she plotted and sought this out, now she is trying to re-rationalize it all. Pretending she never bought anything but she did! She just got buyers remorse and wants you to think she went home empty handed. Her story is nope, no pleasure at all, she suffered through the whole thing, how sad. I initially felt I could relate to her but now I think she is attempting to manipulate you on some level.In fact she may pretend she is worried about a divorce but thinks you are going nowhere. If you got rid of her when you thought it would been messed up to do so, I am pretty sure she would have pulled her self together quite fast. Anyway I think you get a strong reaction do to your background on top of being male. I would say you seem like a stand up guy. I believe ultimately you are handling it quite well of what I have read. Maybe I am crazy or missing something though. I won't say what you should do as there are always details that are left out of a forum. I will say you should to think about what would happen if you give her a real reason to resent you. If you actually do go too far in her mind and cause more resentment, what will she do? She does not seem to be the type to lay down in a fight. I think in a divorce her remorse will be tested.I apologize if some of this is unintelligible rambling but good luck, hopefully you can remain the same guy that you're kids need while carrying your new extra burden. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
italianjob Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 GDR, I'm not going to even enter discussion about what you should do about your marriage. D or R is absolutely your decision to make as only you know what you can or can't live with. That said, I didn't really understand one thing in your story. You came here with your first thread, venting about how you considered your wife's actions unforgivable and unredeemable, and divorce was the sure outcome of this mess. After awhile you started hinting at the possibility of reconciliation citing new and "game changing" (in your words) informations as the cause of your new position. A few days later you started this thread, posting the informations you were talking about, and acting like you are leaning toward R. My question is: what exactly in the story you posted makes your wife going from unforgivable to not unforgivable anymore? What changed your position from sure divorce to probable reconciliation? What is game changing about this informations? Of course, you have every right to change your mind about this at any moment, and I'm not opposing your decision in any way, but frankly I can't see that turnaround coming from what you posted. The way I see it, the new "full" version of the story makes it even worse as it sounds like your wife's ONS was quite "premeditated" by her, not a "mistake" at all. To follow your analogy of murder, the new version would leave out any doubt that this was a second degree one. The jury would make it first degree, IMO. Just curious. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 Don't think it will help any relationship. The woman admitted to it, and wants to work on the marriage. Shaming does not qualify as working things out from his end. Does it? Some twisted thinking going on here.....living in the forums. This man JUST FOUND OUT I'm not sure you understand just how traumatic infidelity really is. I think cheating is abusive so what then? I too believe a person should not be shamed forever, but there usually is some shaming involved post Dday shock. I don't see anything wrong in that, I feel it is a natural reaction to abhorrent behavior (cheating). 3 Link to post Share on other sites
pheonixrisen Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 my country certainly punishes infidelity to large extent. jail time of 3-5 years The city I live in ...adultery is punishable by law ..and carries a sentence of min 1 month maximum 3 years . Link to post Share on other sites
NewLeaf512 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 The city I live in ...adultery is punishable by law ..and carries a sentence of min 1 month maximum 3 years . If this is in America when was the last time it was enforced? Link to post Share on other sites
Spectre Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 OP, just walk away. She's not worth it, and more importantly she decided YOU aren't worth it either, otherwise she wouldn't of cheated. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 The city I live in ...adultery is punishable by law ..and carries a sentence of min 1 month maximum 3 years . It should be punishable by law. The effects of infidelity have wrecked havoc on who I am. I am no longer the same person. I never wanted to be this person and now I have to work at getting healthy again. I have ptsd, depression, anxiety and I'm on meds now (never used to be) just to function and go to work. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Mind of Shazam Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 I don't know if she is telling the truth when it comes to her motivations and rationalizations, but it doesn't come across as meaningful to me. Perhaps lies she told herself. Honestly, you took it to far, bro. You're perfectly justified in wanting out of the marriage. Just do it! Link to post Share on other sites
eye of the storm Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 It should be punishable by law. The effects of infidelity have wrecked havoc on who I am. I am no longer the same person. I never wanted to be this person and now I have to work at getting healthy again. I have ptsd, depression, anxiety and I'm on meds now (never used to be) just to function and go to work. Ladydesigner, there is an end to this feeling. When you come out of it, you will be stronger. You will find happiness. It just takes time and work. You can do it. But in the mean time...Prozac is amazing. I hope you are using anti-depressants in combination with therapy. Hit this thing with everything you have. Sending you strength. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
nightmare01 Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 It should be punishable by law. The effects of infidelity have wrecked havoc on who I am. I am no longer the same person. I never wanted to be this person and now I have to work at getting healthy again. I have ptsd, depression, anxiety and I'm on meds now (never used to be) just to function and go to work. It will pass. The truth is that we are changed every day. Every experience we have changes who we are and how we perceive the world. Being betrayed by the one person we thought we could trust above all others - betrayed in such a primal and profound way - has a much greater affect on us, that's true, but it's still possible to move on and be ok with who you are. I am 14 years beyond Dday. I am not the person I was before my WW's affair, and I will never be that person again. That's a good thing because that person was naive and a damned fool. I like the new me much better. I am more independent than I used to be. I am no longer defined by my marriage (even though me and WW are still together). Should WW cheat on me again I know that I am strong enough to walk away from her and the marriage and be more than fine. The first step is to accept that this happened to us. Know that there is nothing we can do in the present that can change the past. And grow strong in our weak places. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
66Charger Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 66Charger You mentioned here a few things in two of your posts and i'll try to adress them. First of all, the question of divorce and post - divorce reconciliation. I do not necessarily disagree with what you said but it also depends alot on how you, how your spouse and on what foundation the post marriage reconciliation is built. You mentioned cheaterthink 101; i fully agree. However, I still didn't post all of our plan which up until now was suggested by my wife, simply because I don't want to mix them as well as on the light of hate here I'm not sure it will be effective, but what you've seen is only a small portion of my wife's responsibilities and consequences she agrrees to bear out of her own free will. I'll just state that at least one thing that she understands is the law of cause and effect and on many levels. To sum her suggestions up and her willingness to bear the consequences, so having understood that having hurt and wounded me that much, she must be willing to at least in theory be completely vulnerable to me and put her all defenses down which in turn proves to me that her remorse and regret is genuine and not kind of show. The things she offered me are so profound and in my favor that it would be stupid to not accept them, while from her side they could really ruin her life. Her suggestions practically put her at my mercy. Sure, she could survive, but she still have a life that is ruined. If I was such an evil monster and abuser (as men should be, no?) I would have taken her offer and then kick her to the curb. Yet, if I will accept her offer I am not going to do so hence at least in my eyes I would hate seeing myself each morning in the mirror. Even if it would not work I will not let her ruin her life; that is out of question. For me what she has suggested also proves other things: she was selfish, now she tries to get rid of it by being selfless; she had a lot of privileges that she had abused, now she understands it will take a certain time to get them back by being worthy and honorable person; she hurt me, now she is willing to be vulnerable and put all of her difenses down (which I will not take advantage of and abuse); she took me for granted and used me as property and an object, now she is prepares for the long and hard work to see me as a real human beinf. Being that said and taken into consideration that reconciliation and us eventually remarrying is no more granted but dependent on fixing herself and other aspects, it's not only me not risking anything but especially laying the foundation for eventaully true reconciliation not me hypocritically suppressing my suffering pretending and claiming that my suffering is actually a blissful happiness. If haven't seen that from my wife I would have been already gone. Reality, not that virtual and artificial one, propagated through what you correctly defined as cheaterthinking 101 is totally different than the ignorance those people try to spread. I know that once we agree on the terms hard work for everyone is included. For sure for me too. Yet, no matter how important for me it is more important for as the truth of easy comes, easy goes, is still valid. Once, you have worked hard for something you appreciate it. Yet, that will come too when the sight is cleared by truth and I am going to know what I am facing as well as a reasonable and consentual framework is set. By the way, given all of that and having thout about it I have decided not to take another polygraph. Anyway, I think I also have to rethink if continue to post in forums hence as other posters mentioned and was pointing to the hate towards men who are not willing to submit themself to further abuse through ignorance is astounding here. I think even the most disgusting criminals got more compassion than such men as was shown here Then let it be done. Strangely, I have faith in your wife. I still think you should post and take only what you need Strength and Honor 2 Link to post Share on other sites
pheonixrisen Posted September 25, 2015 Share Posted September 25, 2015 (edited) If this is in America when was the last time it was enforced? I live in Dubai ..and it's enforced each and every time when it's reported ...you are arrested immediately without bail till court hearing ..The law and enforcement take adultery very seriously here Plus after the sentence is served you are deported back to your country Edited September 25, 2015 by pheonixrisen 1 Link to post Share on other sites
ShatteredLady Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 That's interesting. Do you feel like those laws are evenly applied to men & women? I know I'm going off topic a bit but in the western world those kinds of laws are often portrayed as being incredibly sexist & unfair (even barbaric) at times. We hear about rape being treated like adultery for the women & them receiving brutal punishments on-top of being a victim, whilst men get away with a slap on the hand (at most). This could be one of those "One Nation controlled by the media" situations but I raised this subject with other UK, USA people & they have similar impressions. Link to post Share on other sites
ShatteredLady Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 66Charger. Quote - "The ignorance that shaming is emotional abuse is cheaterthink 101. Of course there should be no shame for what you have done. Its everyones fault but yours." After 9 MONTHS of bollocks & trickle truth I was accused (with wrath) of "Picking the scab continually" & withholding any kind of healing....3 DAYS AFTER FINALLY KNOWING THE TRUTH!! THREE DAYS!! That resulted in me finally screaming SHAME ON YOU! Our R dynamic completely changed in that evening. Those days, weeks, months after D-Day are the most surreal nightmare I've ever experienced. We made the RULE that anything I said in that time could NEVER be used in a "You said...but YOU said" situation in 'Cruel Words' or 'Unreasonable Behavior' discussions. I think (within reason of course) the days following D-Day are covered by a 'get out of jail free card' of sorts. Before I experienced the last year of my life I believed there was never an excuse to intentionally hurt anyone, let alone your love. If someone is intimate enough for you to know how to cut deep with your words you should NEVER betray that intimacy, under ANY circumstance, by using it against them. I broke my moral code & said mean things. I think I was completely justified given the insanity of the reality I was living. I guess what I'm saying is... This is so fresh. People deserve a 'get out of jail free card' on things they vent on a forum. I notice in threads that OP's are held to things they said in their first few posts & not understood when they change often. What I thought & what I felt changed from moment too moment. Being a brand new BS is the most insane experience of my life. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
pheonixrisen Posted September 26, 2015 Share Posted September 26, 2015 That's interesting. Do you feel like those laws are evenly applied to men & women? I know I'm going off topic a bit but in the western world those kinds of laws are often portrayed as being incredibly sexist & unfair (even barbaric) at times. We hear about rape being treated like adultery for the women & them receiving brutal punishments on-top of being a victim, whilst men get away with a slap on the hand (at most). This could be one of those "One Nation controlled by the media" situations but I raised this subject with other UK, USA people & they have similar impressions. No they are not evenly applied ..and yes they are medieval ...However it's our choice to leave ..if we must stay we must respect their law and culture . This law actually extends too any person in sexual relationship without being married is in violation of the law ...Of course we have 80 % westerners here so people have relationship and stay together ...The police don't go looking for people to arrest ..if its brought to their attention they have to make arrest as per law ..their are no warnings .. In case of adultery it's not only the married person it's also the AP who is going to prison .... Also one month sentence equals 23 days for men / 15 days for woman..its not equal and highly debatable ... and your last paragraph hold true ...to some extent they try their hardest ..but it's impossible when 80 % of your population is foreigners 2 Link to post Share on other sites
HereNorThere Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Her story sounds like a defense attorney in front of a jury. "The defendant grew up in a broken home, had a drug problem, was abused, etc. etc" The problem with this sort of rationale is that it treats these types of things as "incidents" but when you start really looking deeper, you see the infidelity isn't an act, it's a personality trait. No truly good person is capable of betraying the caretaker of their special needs children. That's not just a cheater; it's also a child abuser. If you have to stay, stay. My only thing is - know who you are dealing with now. Don't go back to viewing her the way that you used to because that person didn't really exist. This is who she is and the next time it happens, I'm sure she'll have a similar story. If it were me, I'd be super pissed at how much blame she deflected onto you. It wasn't "I was selfish". Oh no, it was I was pissed at GFR. She basically admitted she did it because of you. That's the part that's the most unforgivable. I see this type of rationalization a lot and it's usually pretty gender specific. People have such a hard time just admitting that they aren't that great of a person so they just pick apart their life looking for ANYTHING or ANYONE to blame besides themselves. Those are honestly the most dangerous people. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
HereNorThere Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 If this is in America when was the last time it was enforced? Bigamy arrest happen all the time in the U.S. and that's definitely a form of adultery. Here's an article of someone who was recently arrested for it. - Husband arrested for bigamy after wife finds out about his double life at church | theGrio Some states like Colorado are enacting paternity fraud laws that make it a crime to lie about paternity on a birth certificate. Legal to smoke weed, but you can't lie about your kids father. I bet that place is awesome. And last but not least, lots of states punish adulterers civilly by shafting them in the divorce. So yes, even in the U.S. - there are lots of places where you can be punished for adultery. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
gettingstronger Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Some states like Colorado are enacting paternity fraud laws that make it a crime to lie about paternity on a birth certificate. Legal to smoke weed, but you can't lie about your kids father. I bet that place is awesome. I live here and it is- personal responsibility is big here in CO and I also know of quite a few where infidelity played a huge role in their divorce settlement- 1 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Some states like Colorado are enacting paternity fraud laws that make it a crime to lie about paternity on a birth certificate. Legal to smoke weed, but you can't lie about your kids father. I bet that place is awesome. I live here and it is- personal responsibility is big here in CO and I also know of quite a few where infidelity played a huge role in their divorce settlement- E I guess it was only a matter of time before we went down the his kids are not his kids road. Nice 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr Mind of Shazam Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 Honestly, her "true confessions" all have a silver of self serving element. I think you should proceed knowing that she will say anything to preserve the status quo. I wouldn't put too much weight in what she is saying. Link to post Share on other sites
ladydesigner Posted September 28, 2015 Share Posted September 28, 2015 If you have to stay, stay. My only thing is - know who you are dealing with now. Don't go back to viewing her the way that you used to because that person didn't really exist. This is who she is and the next time it happens, I'm sure she'll have a similar story. So so true in my case. My WH is not at all the person I thought he was. I had him on a pedestal thinking he would never hurt me the way he did, but he did. Rose colored glasses off now. WH has a lot of work to do on himself before I would consider him a safe person. OP you absolutely cannot go back to thinking the way you knew your spouse. Link to post Share on other sites
stillafool Posted September 29, 2015 Share Posted September 29, 2015 So so true in my case. My WH is not at all the person I thought he was. I had him on a pedestal thinking he would never hurt me the way he did, but he did. Rose colored glasses off now. WH has a lot of work to do on himself before I would consider him a safe person. OP you absolutely cannot go back to thinking the way you knew your spouse. After all the pain he has caused you are you still together? Link to post Share on other sites
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