Her story with full details and the Whys!

[stillafool]

GDR,

I'm not going to even enter discussion about what you should do about your marriage. D or R is absolutely your decision to make as only you know what you can or can't live with.

 

That said, I didn't really understand one thing in your story.

 

You came here with your first thread, venting about how you considered your wife's actions unforgivable and unredeemable, and divorce was the sure outcome of this mess.

 

After awhile you started hinting at the possibility of reconciliation citing new and "game changing" (in your words) informations as the cause of your new position.

 

A few days later you started this thread, posting the informations you were talking about, and acting like you are leaning toward R.

 

My question is: what exactly in the story you posted makes your wife going from unforgivable to not unforgivable anymore?

What changed your position from sure divorce to probable reconciliation?

What is game changing about this informations?

 

 

So many BS start their threads off saying their going to divorce. It's always 10 pages later you see that they want to reconcile. It's rare that these people end up divorcing.

[66Charger]

A 10 page thread is not the rest if his life. Some BS are doormats and some WS are worthy. Time answers that question.

 

Have you poly tested her yet GFR?

[merrmeade]

Counseling, GFR, just get counseling with somebody good. Right for you.

And she needs to get it for her.

 

The Affair, ONS. The marriage. What happened. How she feels about it. All those EXCRUCIATING details you're grinding to finer and finer powder … All of that seems to be ruminating and rummaging around in your head without respite and you have put your natural grieving and raging (if that's your dominant emotion) on hold. Not criticizing - been there, done that - it's just one of those things we have to do until we get all the facts. The truth has GOT to be fully and inexorably laid out and examined.

 

I fully believe that this ordeal of reliving the incredulity, shock, horror and/or rage each day post d-day all over again has a life of its own and no counseling or LS thread can shorten it. You just go on and do what you have to do, GFR, and really - don't bother with the naysayer criticizers on here who think you have a choice and are just being cruel. They haven't been there and simply don't get it. Some of them have spouses just like you and still don't get it.

 

But what I will say that counseling can do is help you stop denying your own feelings, help you embrace and then excoriate them from owning your life and making you some weird caricature of yourself. It will help you cycle through some of these stages - which you absolutely cannot circumvent or shortcut - more effectively or in ways that bring you closer to figuring out what you want to do about everything. It will get you out of your head all the time. It will help you grieve.

 

I've rambled, but mainly just want to say - I'm so, so sorry. It's 3 years for me and I've cycled. I'm no closer to having the marriage I want -- Hell, that's a joke even to say it as if it could be a goal -- but I'm clear and free of the knee-bending pain, the self-defeating hopelessness and - mostly though not always - the self-emolating anger.

 

My marriage is a farce and lacks communication - as in utterly - but, hey, his f--king affairs will NOT be what brings me down. So I'm no example of anything except getting off the couch (i.e., getting over the depression). I just want to say - I get it. I get you. And don't want you apologizing to anyone for any of your reaction.

[Spectre]

Some states like Colorado are enacting paternity fraud laws that make it a crime to lie about paternity on a birth certificate. Legal to smoke weed, but you can't lie about your kids father. I bet that place is awesome.

 

 

 

I live here and it is- personal responsibility is big here in CO and I also know of quite a few where infidelity played a huge role in their divorce settlement-

 

 

It does sound awesome actually, since you SHOULD be able to be charged for lying about your kid. Hell if it were up to me you could be fined for committing adultery too, maybe it would make some people keep their damn pants on. Smoking weed is a victimless crime, lying about the paternity of a child is face punchingly wrong.

[m.snow]

A 10 page thread is not the rest if his life. Some BS are doormats and some WS are worthy. Time answers that question.

 

Have you poly tested her yet GFR?

 

yes he did!

 

So many BS start their threads off saying their going to divorce. It's always 10 pages later you see that they want to reconcile. It's rare that these people end up divorcing.

 

I believe it is a good job on LS part to be an outlet for our fellow BS.

To let there Anger out.

And we should try our best to Listen and Be Understanding. To be an avenue for recovery.

 

we must also do our best not to be Obnoxious in Rebutting them further causing doubt in themselves.

we do not want to add to another person suffering. having been cheated on is already suffering enough.

 

do our best to issue comments with prudence.

Edited September 29, 2015 by m.snow

[Horton]

So many BS start their threads off saying their going to divorce. It's always 10 pages later you see that they want to reconcile. It's rare that these people end up divorcing.

 

That is true. Personally I don't know why BW's would suddenly decide to reconcile, but I imagine that a lot of BH's change their tune after they've had the "You're completely screwed!" talk with the lawyer. So that's one half of the puzzle solved.

 

It does sound awesome actually, since you SHOULD be able to be charged for lying about your kid. Hell if it were up to me you could be fined for committing adultery too, maybe it would make some people keep their damn pants on. Smoking weed is a victimless crime, lying about the paternity of a child is face punchingly wrong.

 

Actual consequences for people's life altering deplorable behavior, what a quaint idea. People in general have become overly entitled IMO, but cheaters really do take the cake. Most won't stand for any form of consequences at all, just look at how people reacted to the AM hack, you'd think the hackers had committed genocide with the level of melodrama that occurred. Not to be irreverent about the subject, but a lot of times while reading their rationalizing screeds I'm reminded of Cartman from South Park. "Whateva I do what I want!"

[autumnnight]

It does sound awesome actually, since you SHOULD be able to be charged for lying about your kid. Hell if it were up to me you could be fined for committing adultery too, maybe it would make some people keep their damn pants on. Smoking weed is a victimless crime, lying about the paternity of a child is face punchingly wrong.

 

I do have to agree with your assessment. If I smoked in my house (I've never smoked pot) alone, then really, what is the harm? But I could go to jail.

 

If someone cheats, passes off a child as someone else's, uses marital funds to commit adultery, gives someone an STD.....it doesn't even count in no-fault states?? That doesn't make any sense.

 

I really wish there was no such thing as no fault divorce. That way the people whose business it actually IS can exact the accountability.

[stillafool]

 

 

I believe it is a good job on LS part to be an outlet for our fellow BS.

To let there Anger out.

And we should try our best to Listen and Be Understanding. To be an avenue for recovery.

 

we must also do our best not to be Obnoxious in Rebutting them further causing doubt in themselves.

we do not want to add to another person suffering. having been cheated on is already suffering enough.

 

do our best to issue comments with prudence.

 

As related to my original post; I don't know if it's so much LS doing a good job that makes these people change their minds and reconcile as it is love. In time they calm down and are willing to do whatever it takes to keep their marriage together. LS is a sounding board for them to vent their anger and frustration. Since this is a public board they are going to get all types of comments which serves to make them think. I agree that we should try not to be obnoxious however I doubt if anyone is here to coddle someone.

[Spectre]

I do have to agree with your assessment. If I smoked in my house (I've never smoked pot) alone, then really, what is the harm? But I could go to jail.

 

If someone cheats, passes off a child as someone else's, uses marital funds to commit adultery, gives someone an STD.....it doesn't even count in no-fault states?? That doesn't make any sense.

 

I really wish there was no such thing as no fault divorce. That way the people whose business it actually IS can exact the accountability.

 

I mean pot is no worse then booze. Booze is actually worse, and nobody blinks an eye if people drink. Hell we have actual places you can go that are made specifically to serve you booze. But weed? Nope, it's bad for some reason that isn't rational. It is becoming less illegal..but still not something you can just buy. Yet I can walk down the street right now and buy a boatload of booze and all I need is cash and an ID to show I'm over 21.

 

As for the divorce, I think fault should be taken into account everywhere. When you get married you make a vow and this isn't just words..people who are married get special rights, etc. So because of that they should be held accountable if they break these vows.

 

If a woman lies to a man about a child and he is paying child support and it is revealed she lied? She should have to pay restitution to him.

[italianjob]

So many BS start their threads off saying their going to divorce. It's always 10 pages later you see that they want to reconcile. It's rare that these people end up divorcing.

 

Yeah, but that's his business... I mean, I'm not going to discuss that, of course he has every right to decide whatever he wants.

 

I just wanted to understand... If he said something like "ok, I was angry at first, but now that I thought about it I've changed my mind" it would make sense to me.

 

But he said for two days something about the fact that knowing the whole story kind of changed his way to look at this.

 

When he posted that story I couldn't find any element that would make his wife's position better, conversely I found many elements that would make it far worse in my opinion. So I'm struggling to see how his change of heart would have anything to do with the so called "new, game changing, info".

 

That's all...

[autumnnight]

I mean pot is no worse then booze. Booze is actually worse, and nobody blinks an eye if people drink. Hell we have actual places you can go that are made specifically to serve you booze. But weed? Nope, it's bad for some reason that isn't rational. It is becoming less illegal..but still not something you can just buy. Yet I can walk down the street right now and buy a boatload of booze and all I need is cash and an ID to show I'm over 21.

 

As for the divorce, I think fault should be taken into account everywhere. When you get married you make a vow and this isn't just words..people who are married get special rights, etc. So because of that they should be held accountable if they break these vows.

 

If a woman lies to a man about a child and he is paying child support and it is revealed she lied? She should have to pay restitution to him.

 

Yep, and a man should have to do the same if he cheats, misrepresents himself or his sexual orientation, cannot keep a job and drives them into financial ruin, gambles, is an addict, etc.

 

When your behavior kills a marriage, there should be consequences for the ending of that marriage. And the place for those are in court and between the couple.

[Spectre]

Yep, and a man should have to do the same if he cheats, misrepresents himself or his sexual orientation, cannot keep a job and drives them into financial ruin, gambles, is an addict, etc.

 

When your behavior kills a marriage, there should be consequences for the ending of that marriage. And the place for those are in court and between the couple.

 

Well yeah I wasn't applying it to just women, but cheaters in general. Now I don't know about getting someone in trouble for not being able to keep a job, because what about situations where you have the man working and the woman is not. She has no job, should she be forced to have one too? Since it's not fair to apply that to the man.

 

I have never gotten married, but I'm pretty sure the vows don't say anything about being an addict or having a job. I do agree about the cheating though. As for sexual misrepresentation..if a person knows they are gay and hides it yes that is bad..but if someone isn't aware and figures it out and divorces their partner I feel that is doing the right thing. Since that is seeing a problem and fixing it properly.

 

Basically I think if you don't have a job or whatever that is bad..but if you are cheating you are actively stealing years away from your partner that they could be spending with someone who isn't a cheater.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Spectre

[autumnnight]

I have never gotten married,

 

Interesting. I absolutely would have pegged you as a BH

[66Charger]

GFR, if you are still reading, unless i missed it, you never did clearly state that she took the poly. I am curious if you took that step

[HereNorThere]

I mean pot is no worse then booze. Booze is actually worse, and nobody blinks an eye if people drink. Hell we have actual places you can go that are made specifically to serve you booze. But weed? Nope, it's bad for some reason that isn't rational. It is becoming less illegal..but still not something you can just buy. Yet I can walk down the street right now and buy a boatload of booze and all I need is cash and an ID to show I'm over 21.

 

It may be that way where you live, but here in the western part of the U.S, we have more marijuana stores than liquor stores in our cities. Some states require you to pay for a doctors recommendation, but 4 do not. There are hash bars on the Venice Boardwalk. Where I live, it's actually more legal than alcohol under some circumstances and allowed for 18 and up with doctors recommendation and 21 for recreation. There's literally a store on every corner (that isn't near school.) You can grow your own legally as well. Times they are certainly changing.

 

The paternity fraud is being recognized for what it is, fraud. It's sad the think that people have been defrauded out of millions of dollars and forced to raise children that aren't theirs. That's a criminal issue that should absolutely be punished. I think that paternity test should just be mandatory at birth as to avoid any attempt by someone. Also, people deserve to know their medical history and genetics.

[HereNorThere]

So many BS start their threads off saying their going to divorce. It's always 10 pages later you see that they want to reconcile. It's rare that these people end up divorcing.

 

Marriage statistics don't support the idea that everyone reconciles, since half of first marriages end in divorce and second and third marriages are even worse than that. By your third marriage, you statistically have such a low chance of staying married that I wonder why people even attempt it.

 

I think this place seems that way for a few reasons. A) people with strong boundaries just leave. They don't post for advice on reconciliation because it isn't an option for them B) this forum makes infidelity seem so common that BSs start to feel like cheating is very, very common. C) the loveshack infidelity checklist - people are basically given a set of rules like no contact letters, transparency, etc and become convinced that if the checklist completed, their life goes back to normal.

 

I think a lot more people leave marriages after infinitely than you see in this sample size. People here already have doubts about divorcing, so that skews the stats.

Edited September 30, 2015 by HereNorThere

[merrmeade]

GDR,

I'm not going to even enter discussion about what you should do about your marriage. D or R is absolutely your decision to make as only you know what you can or can't live with.

 

That said, I didn't really understand one thing in your story.

 

You came here with your first thread, venting about how you considered your wife's actions unforgivable and unredeemable, and divorce was the sure outcome of this mess.

 

After awhile you started hinting at the possibility of reconciliation citing new and "game changing" (in your words) informations as the cause of your new position.

 

A few days later you started this thread, posting the informations you were talking about, and acting like you are leaning toward R.

 

My question is: what exactly in the story you posted makes your wife going from unforgivable to not unforgivable anymore?

What changed your position from sure divorce to probable reconciliation?

What is game changing about this informations?

 

Of course, you have every right to change your mind about this at any moment, and I'm not opposing your decision in any way, but frankly I can't see that turnaround coming from what you posted.

 

The way I see it, the new "full" version of the story makes it even worse as it sounds like your wife's ONS was quite "premeditated" by her, not a "mistake" at all.

 

To follow your analogy of murder, the new version would leave out any doubt that this was a second degree one. The jury would make it first degree, IMO.

 

Just curious.

A BS can be in a state of shock for varying periods of time. The shock usually registers as numbness. Emotions scan be on hold or not yet fully connected with the horror of the reality. Or else they fluctuate wildly. Sometimes the mind sort of goes on autopilot, obsessively ordering details to put the pieces together of what happened. The significance of this fact or that response can be out of character and disproportionate. The hyper-rational extremes should tell you such analysis is not (rational) and cruel to challenge as such - imho.

[autumnnight]

Do we have any reason to think this man's children are not he is or is this just the typical speculative crap

[road]

Do we have any reason to think this man's children are not he is or is this just the typical speculative crap

 

Quite often women are able to hide the true length of the affair.

 

 

Quite often it is not the WW first ride at the affair Rodeo.

 

 

Quite often WW lie and trickle truth their BH.

 

 

 

 

So I think that it is natural for BH's to suspect the paternity of their children.

[Horton]

Anyway, I think I also have to rethink if continue to post in forums hence as other posters mentioned and was pointing to the hate towards men who are not willing to submit themself to further abuse through ignorance is astounding here. I think even the most disgusting criminals got more compassion than such men as was shown here

 

It get's so much worse. There's another infidelity forum where BH's are advised to compete with their wife's OM for her affections for up to a year all while the wife is actively boinking the OM and the BH is expected to somehow woo her back into the marriage with romantic dates, vacations and basically just treating her like an entitled princess.

 

Imagine a husband coming home from a hard day's work and he's now expected to watch the kids while mommy gets ready for her big date and when she comes home freshly 'used' by her OM her husband is supposed to just grin and bear it for the sake of winning the prize. That's a real shi**y prize if you ask me.

[No Limit]

It get's so much worse. There's another infidelity forum where BH's are advised to compete with their wife's OM for her affections for up to a year all while the wife is actively boinking the OM and the BH is expected to somehow woo her back into the marriage with romantic dates, vacations and basically just treating her like an entitled princess.

 

Imagine a husband coming home from a hard day's work and he's now expected to watch the kids while mommy gets ready for her big date and when she comes home freshly 'used' by her OM her husband is supposed to just grin and bear it for the sake of winning the prize. That's a real shi**y prize if you ask me.

 

Oh my God don't remind me of it. That's why I picked this forum to be in, it's most definitely one of the few sane ones.

[autumnnight]

It get's so much worse. There's another infidelity forum where BH's are advised to compete with their wife's OM for her affections for up to a year all while the wife is actively boinking the OM and the BH is expected to somehow woo her back into the marriage with romantic dates, vacations and basically just treating her like an entitled princess.

 

Imagine a husband coming home from a hard day's work and he's now expected to watch the kids while mommy gets ready for her big date and when she comes home freshly 'used' by her OM her husband is supposed to just grin and bear it for the sake of winning the prize. That's a real shi**y prize if you ask me.

 

Yep.....be the better choice so when she's had enough strange she'll come back.

 

OP, your zero tolerance for cheating policy makes sense. Just don't be afraid to enact it. Personally, I am not "all or nothing" on too many things, but when it comes to divorce vs reconciliation, I am. Either completely divorce or truly reconcile. Anything in between is just limbo and torture. If you are going to have to become her parole officer and public testator to keep her straight, it ain't worth it.

[HereNorThere]

Do we have any reason to think this man's children are not he is or is this just the typical speculative crap

 

I don't think anyone ever speculated on that. The paternity fraud discussion was related to whether or not we still punish infidelity in the Western world. I used the Colorado paternity fraud law as one example of people being criminally punished for cheating. I don't think anyone ever suggested that his kids weren't his.

[Spectre]

Interesting. I absolutely would have pegged you as a BH

 

I'm no BH, but rather a BB(betrayed boyfriend). I am an atheist and yet even I still thank God I did not marry those women.

[italianjob]

A BS can be in a state of shock for varying periods of time. The shock usually registers as numbness. Emotions scan be on hold or not yet fully connected with the horror of the reality. Or else they fluctuate wildly. Sometimes the mind sort of goes on autopilot, obsessively ordering details to put the pieces together of what happened. The significance of this fact or that response can be out of character and disproportionate. The hyper-rational extremes should tell you such analysis is not (rational) and cruel to challenge as such - imho.

 

Actually, the OP seemed quite capable of following his train of thoughts, and I was just trying to understand what could lead him to his conclusion in the story he posted. Doesn't seem cruel to me, as I was not challenging him at all, just asking to clarify.

 

And I don't need no lesson, thanks...