Her story with full details and the Whys!

[SawtoothMars]

He wrote down and recorded her 'testimony'. Gave her a polygraph. No matter what she did, for me, a deal breaker. If she is cheating and he is doing all this crap, it shows an unhealthy obsession and they should both move on.

 

That is exactly why he needs to do this. If she reacts as you suggest then you KNOW she is just a self centered person.

 

If you are willing to hurt someone you purport to love in such a horrific way... then you better be willing to put up with the crazy stuff it causes them to do. Otherwise the tears are fake, the "I'm sorries" are empty, and the "I love yous" are lies.

[autumnnight]

That is exactly why he needs to do this. If she reacts as you suggest then you KNOW she is just a self centered person.

 

If you are willing to hurt someone you purport to love in such a horrific way... then you better be willing to put up with the crazy stuff it causes them to do. Otherwise the tears are fake, the "I'm sorries" are empty, and the "I love yous" are lies.

 

Is there a limit to how crazy they are allowed to go?

 

Don't get me wrong. Her cheating was awful and I think he should divorce. But I see stuff like the above all the time. How far exactly can the BH go? Poly, multiple poly's? having her boss sign her in and out of work? A bodycam? A verbal and written accounting for every moment daily? A nice red alphabetical accessory she can wear.....screaming and yelling and calling her names is fine....how about a nice slap every now and then?

[Horton]

That is exactly why he needs to do this. If she reacts as you suggest then you KNOW she is just a self centered person.

 

If you are willing to hurt someone you purport to love in such a horrific way... then you better be willing to put up with the crazy stuff it causes them to do. Otherwise the tears are fake, the "I'm sorries" are empty, and the "I love yous" are lies.

 

Yep, that's pretty much how I see it too. If a cheater claims to be remorseful yet their primary concern is worrying about how THEY will be treated by their BS then their remorse isn't worth much is it? Anybody can feel guilty and cry snot bubbles, it costs nothing to do that, but truly owning another person's pain requires sacrifice, it's the difference between actions and words.

 

Remorse takes a "you broke it, you bought it" attitude. Hitting somebody with your car and driving off into the sunset as you leave them bleeding out in your rear view mirror is not the response of a person whose truly remorseful.

[goodyblue]

That is exactly why he needs to do this. If she reacts as you suggest then you KNOW she is just a self centered person.

 

If you are willing to hurt someone you purport to love in such a horrific way... then you better be willing to put up with the crazy stuff it causes them to do. Otherwise the tears are fake, the "I'm sorries" are empty, and the "I love yous" are lies.

 

I think if she is willing to hurt him like that they should divorce. We don't know if she is a self centered person, only that she did this selfish act. Him policing her in such a controlling way will make him feel in control but she will eventually crack under the pressure and come up fighting.

 

You can say it is selfish all you like but nobody should have to put up with crazy, as you suggest. If you can't work it out amicably and be honest (both of them) then it is over. I don't believe in treating a lover like a prisoner.

 

If you want to act crazy you can go ahead and see how that works out for you but I certainly wouldn't and I wouldn't put up with it from my h either.

Edited October 1, 2015 by goodyblue

[goodyblue]

Yep, that's pretty much how I see it too. If a cheater claims to be remorseful yet their primary concern is worrying about how THEY will be treated by their BS then their remorse isn't worth much is it? Anybody can feel guilty and cry snot bubbles, it costs nothing to do that, but truly owning another person's pain requires sacrifice, it's the difference between actions and words.

 

Remorse takes a "you broke it, you bought it" attitude. Hitting somebody with your car and driving off into the sunset as you leave them bleeding out in your rear view mirror is not the response of a person whose truly remorseful.

 

Either two people decide to work it out or not but I do not believe that the ws has to be treated horribly. The bs and ws have to decide to work toward a common goal together, not the b.s. pulling the ws along like a prisoner. It is completely unhealthy.

[66Charger]

It is probably best for those who have no honor, to come up with their own set of guidelines for exactly how for the BS can go. Since you are going thru the trouble of.cheating, why dont you write a handbook for the DDay, how long you are permitted to stay in the affair fog and the rules of reconcilliation? Give it timelines and voice levels and insure it is always amicable. Sure , WS, you can do the dirt and write the rules after. Its only fair. You are entitled to as less pain as possible, even though you inflicted pain on another.

 

Really?

 

A POX ON ALL YOUR HOUSES.

 

Alert away

[goodyblue]

It is probably best for those who have no honor, to come up with their own set of guidelines for exactly how for the BS can go. Since you are going thru the trouble of.cheating, why dont you write a handbook for the DDay, how long you are permitted to stay in the affair fog and the rules of reconcilliation? Give it timelines and voice levels and insure it is always amicable. Sure , WS, you can do the dirt and write the rules after. Its only fair. You are entitled to as less pain as possible, even though you inflicted pain on another.

 

Really?

 

A POX ON ALL YOUR HOUSES.

 

Alert away

 

Treating someone like a dog on a leash does not make them loyal. If you are trying to reconcile it needs to be with love, not control. As I said, that is why divorce is the best option, most cant/wont forgive and that is okay.

 

What the WS did was obviously egregious, but treating someone like they are your property, or an animal, is not okay.

[fellini]

Is there a limit to how crazy they are allowed to go?

 

Don't get me wrong. Her cheating was awful and I think he should divorce. But I see stuff like the above all the time. How far exactly can the BH go? Poly, multiple poly's? having her boss sign her in and out of work? A bodycam? A verbal and written accounting for every moment daily? A nice red alphabetical accessory she can wear.....screaming and yelling and calling her names is fine....how about a nice slap every now and then?

 

Nah, it's not necessary to do all those things, a stylish designer GPS ankle bracelet will do the trick just fine. Then he merely has to establish the parameters of her movements on a computer GPS software tracker and receive text message alerts when she moves outside the boundaries.

[road]

People fail to see that the trust was broken.

 

 

That for trust to be repaired the WS must do what is necessary to show there is NC and that they are an open book keeping no secrets, and no independent behavior. There is no more right to privacy.

 

 

The blind trust will be forever gone. Though the trust can be repaired to 99% if the WS does what is required of them.

 

 

History shows that when the BS does not take steps to hold the WS accountable during recovery is how the second affair happens.

[autumnnight]

It is probably best for those who have no honor, to come up with their own set of guidelines for exactly how for the BS can go. Since you are going thru the trouble of.cheating, why dont you write a handbook for the DDay, how long you are permitted to stay in the affair fog and the rules of reconcilliation? Give it timelines and voice levels and insure it is always amicable. Sure , WS, you can do the dirt and write the rules after. Its only fair. You are entitled to as less pain as possible, even though you inflicted pain on another.

 

Really?

 

A POX ON ALL YOUR HOUSES.

 

Alert away

 

Um...I'm not sure what this petulant rant was about. It was an honest question. I think divorce, exposure, the demand for transparency, a polygraph to confirm honesty, etc. are all very reasonable. I also think that a WS is the one who needs to do the heavy lifting for quite awhile. Working on any perceived kinks in the marriage comes way after remorse and helping the BS heal.

 

However, I know of some specific cases where nearly a decade has passed where a BH is still married to the FWW who confessed immediately and did everything right. He still calls her a slut, refuses to kiss her (but has no problem using her for sex whenever he wants), tells her to be sure she has condoms every time she walks out the door, and blames everything on her A, including his inability to keep a job. I know a man who will never buy his FWW another gift or celebrate another significant holiday with her because of a decade-ago A. I know a man who made a plan to kill an OM's child. I know a site where people laughed when a WS was burned alive.

 

Rant all you want, but the above cases, IMO, are inexcusable.

 

Why don't you just come out and say what it is you're itching to say?

[merrmeade]

Um...I'm not sure what this petulant rant was about. It was an honest question. I think divorce, exposure, the demand for transparency, a polygraph to confirm honesty, etc. are all very reasonable. I also think that a WS is the one who needs to do the heavy lifting for quite awhile. Working on any perceived kinks in the marriage comes way after remorse and helping the BS heal.

 

However, I know of some specific cases where nearly a decade has passed where a BH is still married to the FWW who confessed immediately and did everything right. He still calls her a slut, refuses to kiss her (but has no problem using her for sex whenever he wants), tells her to be sure she has condoms every time she walks out the door, and blames everything on her A, including his inability to keep a job. I know a man who will never buy his FWW another gift or celebrate another significant holiday with her because of a decade-ago A. I know a man who made a plan to kill an OM's child. I know a site where people laughed when a WS was burned alive.

 

Rant all you want, but the above cases, IMO, are inexcusable.

 

Why don't you just come out and say what it is you're itching to say?

Yikes! wtf is going on here??

 

I believe more and more that the first therapist I consulted (and fired) maybe was right. She said stay, don't stay whatever but just work on you now, on getting past this period of shock and grief AND WHAT YOU WANT. Just don't work on the marriage. Then, when you're you again, you can decide to D, R, MC whatev. (Essentially) you're 'crazy' now and long-term decisions won't be dependable.

[autumnnight]

Yikes! wtf is going on here??

 

I believe more and more that the first therapist I consulted (and fired) maybe was right. She said stay, don't stay whatever but just work on you now, on getting past this period of shock and grief AND WHAT YOU WANT. Just don't work on the marriage. Then, when you're you again, you can decide to D, R, MC whatev. (Essentially) you're 'crazy' now and long-term decisions won't be dependable.

 

I agree with your therapist. Even in a bad marriage, the affair is the acute, life-threatening, bleeding wound. Marital issues are a chronic condition. You have to treat the acute gaping wound first, drain the infection, treat it, heal it. Then when you are not bleeding and in agony you can go on to other issues.

 

And this wound doesn't stop bleeding overnight. A WS NEEDS to understand this.

 

My issue is when people continue to pull out the stitches or take a kitchen knife and re-cut themselves, and then say, "See????? You aren't helping me heal!! You are awful!!!" 98% of BS don't do this. The 2% who do are very vehement about it, most of them end up on the internet, and every once in awhile a few become so unstable they pick out a special friend to follow around and torment.

[Clay]

Treating someone like a dog on a leash does not make them loyal. If you are trying to reconcile it needs to be with love, not control. As I said, that is why divorce is the best option, most cant/wont forgive and that is okay.

 

What the WS did was obviously egregious, but treating someone like they are your property, or an animal, is not okay.

 

I do not disagree with this point but keep in mind his wife is agreeing to this. Now maybe that might be wrong for her to do but certainly cheating was wrong for her to do as well. Its there choice not ours. What you did on your DDays and others did is easy to judge after that fact but understand like your SO and others they were in shock. There lives were turned upside down. I am sure there that there have been far worse things done to a WS than making her feel locked up and treated badly.

 

Hopefully with time he has lightened up and they are seeking counceling for this issue now.

 

As to my personal thoughts I would just suggest him divorce her. For me cheating is one thing but knowing the kind of husband she has and she was still willing to put her disabled children on the life for her selfish choices would be all I need to pack her bags and send her down the road. She would have good visitation with the kids but only once she demonstrated she was in counseling and showing good healthy behavior towards the kids.

 

That is just my two cents.

 

C

[autumnnight]

I do not disagree with this point but keep in mind his wife is agreeing to this. Now maybe that might be wrong for her to do but certainly cheating was wrong for her to do as well. Its there choice not ours. What you did on your DDays and others did is easy to judge after that fact but understand like your SO and others they were in shock. There lives were turned upside down. I am sure there that there have been far worse things done to a WS than making her feel locked up and treated badly.

 

Hopefully with time he has lightened up and they are seeking counceling for this issue now.

 

As to my personal thoughts I would just suggest him divorce her. For me cheating is one thing but knowing the kind of husband she has and she was still willing to put her disabled children on the life for her selfish choices would be all I need to pack her bags and send her down the road. She would have good visitation with the kids but only once she demonstrated she was in counseling and showing good healthy behavior towards the kids.

 

That is just my two cents.

 

C

 

I agree with this. Except no court on earth is going to take the kids and insist on counseling for a one night stand....and they shouldn't.

[Clay]

I agree with this. Except no court on earth is going to take the kids and insist on counseling for a one night stand....and they shouldn't.

 

I understand what your saying but with kids with special needs involved they do get a guardian ad litem involved and that person will push for what is best for the kids. If the mothers mental state is in question they will push for her to do something about it.

 

Understand this only happens if is wife was to push it in court.

 

I think if she is willing to do all the things she is doing right now for him I would not be a bit surprised she would not go along with counseling as well.

I think at this point in time it would not hurt both of them to have it.

 

I have special needs kids. The stress of dealing with them everyday is high. They are going to need all the help they can get.

 

C

[autumnnight]

I understand what your saying but with kids with special needs involved they do get a guardian ad litem involved and that person will push for what is best for the kids. If the mothers mental state is in question they will push for her to do something about it.

 

Understand this only happens if is wife was to push it in court.

 

I think if she is willing to do all the things she is doing right now for him I would not be a bit surprised she would not go along with counseling as well.

I think at this point in time it would not hurt both of them to have it.

 

I have special needs kids. The stress of dealing with them everyday is high. They are going to need all the help they can get.

C

 

Exactly, which is why taking their mother because of one night would be destructive vengeance and really nothing more.

 

I hope this woman will examine herself and do the work to become better. But I also still hope the OP will divorce. People are wired how they are wired, and I don't think the OP is wired for authentic reconciliation. And there is no shame in that.

[Horton]

For me cheating is one thing but knowing the kind of husband she has and she was still willing to put her disabled children on the life for her selfish choices would be all I need to pack her bags and send her down the road. She would have good visitation with the kids but only once she demonstrated she was in counseling and showing good healthy behavior towards the kids.

 

That is just my two cents.

 

C

 

I brought this up before and many did not agree, but I still think her ONS is more appalling than most affairs, based solely on the fact that she has four special needs children she should have been protecting. Maybe she could plead temporary insanity, but in my mind this really speaks to what kind of a parent a person is when they're willing to gamble with their children's future for some illicit sex. Any kids will be unfairly affected by their parents immoral behavior, but her kids are already set up right out of the gate for a challenging enough life, the last thing they needed was for their own mother to place her selfish desires over their best interests.

[autumnnight]

I brought this up before and many did not agree, but I still think her ONS is more appalling than most affairs, based solely on the fact that she has four special needs children she should have been protecting. Maybe she could plead temporary insanity, but in my mind this really speaks to what kind of a parent a person is when they're willing to gamble with their children's future for some illicit sex. Any kids will be unfairly affected by their parents immoral behavior, but her kids are already set up right out of the gate for a challenging enough life, the last thing they needed was for their own mother to place her selfish desires over their best interests.

 

I can see this. ALL affairs are deplorable, but if a woman is in a terrible marriage and somehow falls madly in love with "wonderman," at least the stupid risk is for "something." Nah...that's gross too, but I get your point.

 

Of course, there is also the side that depending upon the circumstances a ONS might be more of an aberration of character than some long, involved deception.

 

I dunno. It's just all bad. That's why people shouldn't do it.

 

The big question, and not just for this thread is, does a person's thinking or behavior for 49 hours or 72 hours or 3 months....does it mean all of their life before was a sham and none of their life after matters?

[JohnAdams]

The big question, and not just for this thread is, does a person's thinking or behavior for 49 hours or 72 hours or 3 months....does it mean all of their life before was a sham and none of their life after matters?

 

No, a slice out of person's life does not define them. We all have done things in our past that we are ashamed of now.

 

 

Perhaps unfairly, but, certain things will stay with you forever. A person sent to prison for a felony will always be a felon regardless of their sorrow, remorse and changes they made for the better.

 

 

In the case of adultery, especially early on after Dday, a character flaw was exposed that took the BS by surprise. This can and I think usually does make a BS wonder if the whole marriage was a sham.

 

 

It takes time and actions for a BS to regain their trust and comfort in their spouse. Many BS's look at their marriage as before and after (the affair). It personally took me a long time to get past this point.

 

 

It does take awhile for the "before" to return to a place of good memories and the after to be a place of comfort and stability.

[autumnnight]

No, a slice out of person's life does not define them. We all have done things in our past that we are ashamed of now.

 

 

Perhaps unfairly, but, certain things will stay with you forever. A person sent to prison for a felony will always be a felon regardless of their sorrow, remorse and changes they made for the better.

 

 

In the case of adultery, especially early on after Dday, a character flaw was exposed that took the BS by surprise. This can and I think usually does make a BS wonder if the whole marriage was a sham.

 

 

It takes time and actions for a BS to regain their trust and comfort in their spouse. Many BS's look at their marriage as before and after (the affair). It personally took me a long time to get past this point.

 

 

It does take awhile for the "before" to return to a place of good memories and the after to be a place of comfort and stability.

 

This makes absolute sense. It sounds like you have the capacity to understand moving forward but not erasing simultaneously. One can move forward and see the FWS as they are today and ALSO know that the A has changed things forever. It is amazing how many people seem to see it as either/or.

[Spectre]

Okay so we've trotted out the clichés of "nobody is perfect" and all that. It's not unfair for the memory of your spouse utterly betraying you for a ONS to never stop bothering you.

 

Exactly, which is why taking their mother because of one night would be destructive vengeance and really nothing more.

 

I hope this woman will examine herself and do the work to become better. But I also still hope the OP will divorce. People are wired how they are wired, and I don't think the OP is wired for authentic reconciliation. And there is no shame in that.

 

We have no way of knowing if he is wired for reconciliation in general. Though shockingly he isn't wired for reconciling when his wife bangs some dude.

 

Likewise taking the mother because of one night is destructive? So what, the guy should have to give up custody of his kids or otherwise see his kids 50% less then normal..because his wife couldn't keep her legs closed? Why is that not destructive? Kids don't need a mother who has zero respect for their father. So he either needs to stay with a disrespectful cheater or see his kids less..all because his wife had to cheat on him. He did nothing wrong, she did. She should suffer the consequences, not him.

 

Is it fair? Nah, but life isn't fair..especially when adultery is concerned.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Spectre

[goodyblue]

Okay so we've trotted out the clichés of "nobody is perfect" and all that. It's not unfair for the memory of your spouse utterly betraying you for a ONS to never stop bothering you.

 

 

 

We have no way of knowing if he is wired for reconciliation in general. Though shockingly he isn't wired for reconciling when his wife bangs some dude.

 

Likewise taking the mother because of one night is destructive? So what, the guy should have to give up custody of his kids or otherwise see his kids 50% less then normal..because his wife couldn't keep her legs closed? Why is that not destructive? Kids don't need a mother who has zero respect for their father.

 

You don't know thing one about the WS. Lots of assumptions. You don't know how he treated her and if she divorced him without an affair he would still see his kids less.

Edited October 1, 2015 by goodyblue

[Spectre]

You don't know thing one about the WS. Lots of assumptions. You don't know how he treated her and if she divorced him without an affair he would still see his kids less.

 

So how do I not know one thing about her when the OP tells us several things about her. I don't know how he treated her, but so far he hasn't said he treated her badly and all we have to go on is what he is saying. So I kind of have to make my replies based on that.

 

Could he of treated her badly? Sure, but if we're going to play guessing games then it becomes impossible to ever give anyone here any advice unless both partners come post.

[autumnnight]

You don't know thing one about the WS. Lots of assumptions. You don't know how he treated her and if she divorced him without an affair he would still see his kids less.

goody, this idea that a woman must have always been and always will be a terrible mother if she cheats is widely held. Apparently it is better for special needs kids (whose worlds tend to revolve around predictability and for whom 95% the mother is the primary caregiver) to have their mother ripped away and deemed unfit than to divorce over the adultery and still keep the kids' world as intact as possible.

 

Taking mom away isn't about the kids. It's about sticking it to the cheater. Just like telling the entire town about a dead affair isn't about reconciliation. It's about vengeance. And list list goes.

 

It is possible to abhor cheating and still understand that most of the real world doesn't revolve around it.

[Spectre]

So what if telling the entire town is vengeance? You reap what you sow. If you play stupid games you get some really stupid prizes.

 

A woman who is willing to throw her family away for one night of sex is, in my opinion, just not a good parent. You can certainly agree to disagree with me on that.

 

Of course the world doesn't revolve around cheating. But it certainly tells us a lot about a persons character. Yes yes I know, the past is the past right?

Edited October 1, 2015 by Spectre