autumnnight Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 So what if telling the entire town is vengeance? You reap what you sow. I know a few places you'd fit in well. I think sometimes people whose lives revolve around extensive involvement on forums forget that what they deem normal and necessary most of the rest of the world would deem angry, legally questionable, and possibly downright psycho. At any rate, I think the OP knows his own boundaries very well. He seems to be a man with some backbone, and he is not going to stay in a marriage fraught with miserable memories. I respect him for that. If you can't really be married, you shouldn't be married. And it is very hard to be really married to someone who terribly betrayed you. Link to post Share on other sites
goodyblue Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 So what if telling the entire town is vengeance? You reap what you sow. A woman who is willing to throw her family away for one night of sex is, in my opinion, just not a good parent. You can certainly agree to disagree with me on that. She isn't throwing her kids away and no court will give her less time with the kids because of a ons. As for his wife, you know what HE told you. I wonder what she would say to an anonymous forum about him? Link to post Share on other sites
Spectre Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I know a few places you'd fit in well. I think sometimes people whose lives revolve around extensive involvement on forums forget that what they deem normal and necessary most of the rest of the world would deem angry, legally questionable, and possibly downright psycho. At any rate, I think the OP knows his own boundaries very well. He seems to be a man with some backbone, and he is not going to stay in a marriage fraught with miserable memories. I respect him for that. If you can't really be married, you shouldn't be married. And it is very hard to be really married to someone who terribly betrayed you. Telling people your wife cheated on you isn't psycho. No more then banging some other dude is psycho even though you made vows to another man and have children with him. She isn't throwing her kids away and no court will give her less time with the kids because of a ons. As for his wife, you know what HE told you. I wonder what she would say to an anonymous forum about him? But again..you might as well never ever respond to a topic unless it has both partners. Link to post Share on other sites
goodyblue Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 goody, this idea that a woman must have always been and always will be a terrible mother if she cheats is widely held. Apparently it is better for special needs kids (whose worlds tend to revolve around predictability and for whom 95% the mother is the primary caregiver) to have their mother ripped away and deemed unfit than to divorce over the adultery and still keep the kids' world as intact as possible. Taking mom away isn't about the kids. It's about sticking it to the cheater. Just like telling the entire town about a dead affair isn't about reconciliation. It's about vengeance. And list list goes. It is possible to abhor cheating and still understand that most of the real world doesn't revolve around it. The thing I notice about BS's is once they find out the affair their world gets really small. It consumes them and instead of growth they become stuck in affair mode. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 OP, I respect what I sense about you. I see you as the kind of man who needs to know what he needs to know, and who is going to be very decisive about what he does and doesn't want. I see you getting the facts, divorcing your wife, making it through the process, and then we probably won't hear from you again because you will be out living. You'll find a faithful woman who will be a good step mom to your kids. You'll have the caliber to co-parent with your ex, and you won't still be somewhere online ranting and projecting 5 or 10 years from now. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Spectre Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 The thing I notice about BS's is once they find out the affair their world gets really small. It consumes them and instead of growth they become stuck in affair mode. You know it's almost as if being betrayed by someone you love is sort of severely damaging to a person. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 You know it's almost as if being betrayed by someone you love is sort of severely damaging to a person. It definitely is. It feels like your insides have been ripped out and your life has just...stopped and been revealed as completely unreal. The good memories hurt, the bad memories hurt, and the future? That can't even be contemplated. BUT...if you are healthy, patient, and can develop perspective.....you can move on as a whole person who does need the permanent robe of being betrayed to give you identity. I'll confess, it has been about 6 or so months since I found out I had been terribly betrayed by someone I loved sooooo much, and I still have that robe in the front of my closet. But I'm trying really hard to give it to Goodwill Because I don't want to be "Autumn the Betrayed". I want to be....Autumn. Link to post Share on other sites
Spectre Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Also you have to keep in mind it is not necessarily correct to assume BS's are UTTERLY CONSUMED by this. As in, their entire life. Could be the cases for some, but it could be they get consumed with it if they are browsing the forum(since it literally eats away at your soul to see people treat each other this way) and yet it can also be like watching a gruesome car wreck, you can't look away, but it doesn't mean that when they are out with friends or something they are going "grrr damn that one cheater on Loveshack". Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Also you have to keep in mind it is not necessarily correct to assume BS's are UTTERLY CONSUMED by this. As in, their entire life. Could be the cases for some, but it could be they get consumed with it if they are browsing the forum(since it literally eats away at your soul to see people treat each other this way) but it doesn't mean that when they are out with friends they are going "grrr damn that one cheater on Loveshack". That's true. I hardly ever think about this stuff unless I am on LS. But some days, when things are close to the service, I just spew out everywhere on threads. Then I log off and get normal again Only the really weird people take a forum poster's life seriously enough to make it an offline project Link to post Share on other sites
goodyblue Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 You know it's almost as if being betrayed by someone you love is sort of severely damaging to a person. Please stop acting as though I think affairs are wonderful things. It gets old. You can't let the affair dictate the rest of your life. If y you do then you are choosing it. Then it becomes less about the affair and about the inability to move on. And punishing the kids because of a spousesaffair is worse than the affair itself. You can say it is all the cheaters fault if the kids suffer, but if the b.s. is making it happen, it becomes their fault. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Horton Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 A woman who is willing to throw her family away for one night of sex is, in my opinion, just not a good parent. You can certainly agree to disagree with me on that. Of course the world doesn't revolve around cheating. But it certainly tells us a lot about a persons character. Yes yes I know, the past is the past right? Many people(including a lot of former adulterers) claim that the lure of an affair is very similar to drug or alcohol addiction. I have to wonder if the same 'fog' or cognitive dissonance many cheaters claim 'allowed' them to make such awful decisions while actively involved in an affair is actually something that they're just permanently stuck with even long after the affair is over, like how drug or alcohol can still affect a person's brain chemistry years later. I say this because the one concept I see repeated ad nauseam from both active cheaters and former cheaters is that they're actually a good person/mother/father/employee etc. in spite of their affair or past affair. Generally their mantra is "I'm a good person who did a bad thing." or some similar statement, but is that statement only true in regards to affairs? What about people who do other bad things, what if the bad thing is even more heinous than having an affair? Would a cheater who claims they're a good person say that about a murderer for example? My point is not that cheaters are on the same moral standing as a murderer, but that their go to response to any questioning of their character or fitness as a parent is that their own behavior(past or present) doesn't or at least shouldn't define them, yet they would absolutely define other people by their past behavior as long as they deem that behavior to be worse than their own. Isn't all of this just a complicated way of saying that having an affair isn't really that big of a deal, that it's not as bad as people make it out to be? The "Don't judge me by what I do." argument sounds an awful lot like a cop out to me. What if the affair goes on for 20 years, is that cheater worthy of being viewed as a bad person? What if they have several affairs over the course of their marriage or they only have one affair, reconcile and then go back to their AP years later leaving their BS completely blindsided? At what point does somebody stop being a good person who did a bad thing and become just a bad person? My philosophy has always been that if you have to keep reminding yourself that you're a good person, you're probably not. Link to post Share on other sites
goodyblue Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Many people(including a lot of former adulterers) claim that the lure of an affair is very similar to drug or alcohol addiction. I have to wonder if the same 'fog' or cognitive dissonance many cheaters claim 'allowed' them to make such awful decisions while actively involved in an affair is actually something that they're just permanently stuck with even long after the affair is over, like how drug or alcohol can still affect a person's brain chemistry years later. I say this because the one concept I see repeated ad nauseam from both active cheaters and former cheaters is that they're actually a good person/mother/father/employee etc. in spite of their affair or past affair. Generally their mantra is "I'm a good person who did a bad thing." or some similar statement, but is that statement only true in regards to affairs? What about people who do other bad things, what if the bad thing is even more heinous than having an affair? Would a cheater who claims they're a good person say that about a murderer for example? My point is not that cheaters are on the same moral standing as a murderer, but that their go to response to any questioning of their character or fitness as a parent is that their own behavior(past or present) doesn't or at least shouldn't define them, yet they would absolutely define other people by their past behavior as long as they deem that behavior to be worse than their own. Isn't all of this just a complicated way of saying that having an affair isn't really that big of a deal, that it's not as bad as people make it out to be? The "Don't judge me by what I do." argument sounds an awful lot like a cop out to me. What if the affair goes on for 20 years, is that cheater worthy of being viewed as a bad person? What if they have several affairs over the course of their marriage or they only have one affair, reconcile and then go back to their AP years later leaving their BS completely blindsided? At what point does somebody stop being a good person who did a bad thing and become just a bad person? My philosophy has always been that if you have to keep reminding yourself that you're a good person, you're probably not. I believe in forgiveness and redemption. I believe in becoming a better person. What you are saying is a person who stole a candy bar ten years ago is forever a thief. People are not perfect. People make mistakes, sometimes big ones. Morals are fluid and different for everyone. I guess according to you someone who made a big mistake should just throw their hands up.. Give up,just kill themselves because their life is ruined. Jesus. Gimme a break. Link to post Share on other sites
pheonixrisen Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 The thing I notice about BS's is once they find out the affair their world gets really small. It consumes them and instead of growth they become stuck in affair mode. That's so weird coming from a former FOW ....don't get me wrong I am not trying to attack you but common ...I could say the same about ow .... the thing I notice about ow is once they involve themselves in an affair...their world gets really small it consumes them and instead of growth they become stuck in affair mode.. the shoes fits. ... Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Many people(including a lot of former adulterers) claim that the lure of an affair is very similar to drug or alcohol addiction. I have to wonder if the same 'fog' or cognitive dissonance many cheaters claim 'allowed' them to make such awful decisions while actively involved in an affair is actually something that they're just permanently stuck with even long after the affair is over, like how drug or alcohol can still affect a person's brain chemistry years later. I say this because the one concept I see repeated ad nauseam from both active cheaters and former cheaters is that they're actually a good person/mother/father/employee etc. in spite of their affair or past affair. Generally their mantra is "I'm a good person who did a bad thing." or some similar statement, but is that statement only true in regards to affairs? What about people who do other bad things, what if the bad thing is even more heinous than having an affair? Would a cheater who claims they're a good person say that about a murderer for example? My point is not that cheaters are on the same moral standing as a murderer, but that their go to response to any questioning of their character or fitness as a parent is that their own behavior(past or present) doesn't or at least shouldn't define them, yet they would absolutely define other people by their past behavior as long as they deem that behavior to be worse than their own. Isn't all of this just a complicated way of saying that having an affair isn't really that big of a deal, that it's not as bad as people make it out to be? The "Don't judge me by what I do." argument sounds an awful lot like a cop out to me. What if the affair goes on for 20 years, is that cheater worthy of being viewed as a bad person? What if they have several affairs over the course of their marriage or they only have one affair, reconcile and then go back to their AP years later leaving their BS completely blindsided? At what point does somebody stop being a good person who did a bad thing and become just a bad person? My philosophy has always been that if you have to keep reminding yourself that you're a good person, you're probably not. If this is that much of a parallel, then I know a few former alcoholics who I hope never babysit their grandkids Then again, I don't subscribe to the "always an alcoholic" thing either. However, it does make sense that AA hardcores are also going to keep cheaters in the cheater box. I know people who drove drunk with their kids in the car. Sad I have a philosophy too, but it's not on topic An affair is a HUGE deal. So are a lot of other things. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
goodyblue Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 That's so weird coming from a former FOW ....don't get me wrong I am not trying to attack you but common ...I could say the same about ow .... the thing I notice about ow is once they involve themselves in an affair...their world gets really small it consumes them and instead of growth they become stuck in affair mode.. the shoes fits. ... It certainly can happen. Link to post Share on other sites
66Charger Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 GrandFunk, you can request the moderators close this thread. It has disintegrated into nothing but noise and personal battles. 3 Link to post Share on other sites
Horton Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 I believe in forgiveness and redemption. I believe in becoming a better person. What you are saying is a person who stole a candy bar ten years ago is forever a thief. People are not perfect. People make mistakes, sometimes big ones. Morals are fluid and different for everyone. I guess according to you someone who made a big mistake should just throw their hands up.. Give up,just kill themselves because their life is ruined. Jesus. Gimme a break. Let's try using an analogy. One person says "I had a ONS, it was only one day out of my 20 years on earth, you're gonna judge me for that?" Another person says "I had a 5 month affair and I'm in my 30's you can't compare almost 30 years of being a good person to just 5 months of my life." And yet another says "I had a 10 year affair and I'm 65, you're gonna call me a bad spouse and parent due to less than 10% of my time on earth?" Do you not see the point? What's happening here in regards to adultery is what is actually occurring in society as a whole even completely outside of the affair discussion, the standard for human behavior just keeps dropping lower and lower in order to allow more people on the "I'm a good person" train so as not to make anybody feel excluded or trigger their guilt complex. But if anybody can be considered 'good' no matter what they've done and how long they did it for, eventually at some point the term 'good' loses all of it's meaning. Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Let's try using an analogy. One person says "I had a ONS, it was only one day out of my 20 years on earth, you're gonna judge me for that?" Another person says "I had a 5 month affair and I'm in my 30's you can't compare almost 30 years of being a good person to just 5 months of my life." And yet another says "I had a 10 year affair and I'm 65, you're gonna call me a bad spouse and parent due to less than 10% of my time on earth?" Do you not see the point? What's happening here in regards to adultery is what is actually occurring in society as a whole even completely outside of the affair discussion, the standard for human behavior just keeps dropping lower and lower in order to allow more people on the "I'm a good person" train so as not to make anybody feel excluded or trigger their guilt complex. But if anybody can be considered 'good' no matter what they've done and how long they did it for, eventually at some point the term 'good' loses all of it's meaning. My belief of redemption is this: "I cheated. (length is irelevant to the bottom line IMO). There was no excuse, it was wrong, and it is my responsibility. It stops NOW, as does the lying and deceit and selfishness. In order to give these words value, here is access to my whole life, I relinquish my privacy so that you can begin to feel safe again, and I am willing to go to counseling to really look honestly at myself and my choices. This is a marathon, not a sprint, and I am here to see it through." The above humility, attitude, and changed behavior is consistent over time. 5, 10, 15 years down the road, if someone wants to pigeonhole me or brand me as permanently damaged.....well, that says more about them than me. If they follow me around to bludgeon me with it.....there are harassment laws for that. The end 2 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Oh, and as Jesus said, "there is no one good but God." Link to post Share on other sites
66Charger Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 My belief of redemption is this: "I cheated. (length is irelevant to the bottom line IMO). There was no excuse, it was wrong, and it is my responsibility. It stops NOW, as does the lying and deceit and selfishness. In order to give these words value, here is access to my whole life, I relinquish my privacy so that you can begin to feel safe again, and I am willing to go to counseling to really look honestly at myself and my choices. This is a marathon, not a sprint, and I am here to see it through." The above humility, attitude, and changed behavior is consistent over time. 5, 10, 15 years down the road, if someone wants to pigeonhole me or brand me as permanently damaged.....well, that says more about them than me. If they follow me around to bludgeon me with it.....there are harassment laws for that. The end Well said Can we end on a high note and let that be truly the end of this discussion on this thread? Or will you continue to war? Link to post Share on other sites
goodyblue Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 Let's try using an analogy. One person says "I had a ONS, it was only one day out of my 20 years on earth, you're gonna judge me for that?" Another person says "I had a 5 month affair and I'm in my 30's you can't compare almost 30 years of being a good person to just 5 months of my life." And yet another says "I had a 10 year affair and I'm 65, you're gonna call me a bad spouse and parent due to less than 10% of my time on earth?" Do you not see the point? What's happening here in regards to adultery is what is actually occurring in society as a whole even completely outside of the affair discussion, the standard for human behavior just keeps dropping lower and lower in order to allow more people on the "I'm a good person" train so as not to make anybody feel excluded or trigger their guilt complex. But if anybody can be considered 'good' no matter what they've done and how long they did it for, eventually at some point the term 'good' loses all of it's meaning. Good is relative, isn't it? I will say this: it doesn't matter how long you were doing something bad. If you change, stop doing the bad thing, redeem yourself, become better, then forgiveness is in order. If you fail to forgive, you just fail. Link to post Share on other sites
Robert Posted October 1, 2015 Share Posted October 1, 2015 (edited) Since the OP has not posted in this thread in six days, and the topic has drifted, this thread is now closed. ~6 Edited October 1, 2015 by Robert updated from "closed for review" 2 Link to post Share on other sites
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