What I realize now

[ladydesigner]

When I first found out about my WH's A, I immediately got angry at the MOW and WH and I felt like she took everything that I thought was important to me, including my sanity. Of course as time went on and I was able to clearly think about their A, I realized that MOW never really took anything from me, my WH did and willingly.

 

What MOW showed me was who it was that I really had in the first place.

[flowergirl14]

Your exactly right. If not her he would be with someone else. When your h decided to cheat, he effectively blew the marriage up. Game over. Btw do you ever read chump lady?

[oldshirt]

 

What MOW showed me was who it was that I really had in the first place.

 

That's a catchy phrase and it definitely has some truth to it. However she still came into your house (figuratively or perhaps even literally) and used something of yours without your permission.

 

 

You still have the right and good reason to be upset with her and to hold her accountable.

 

 

She came intentionally came into your marriage and took something that was exclusively yours. Anger, resentment etc towards her is completely founded and there is no reason to pretend otherwise.

[NewLeaf512]

That's a catchy phrase and it definitely has some truth to it. However she still came into your house (figuratively or perhaps even literally) and used something of yours without your permission.

 

 

You still have the right and good reason to be upset with her and to hold her accountable.

 

 

She came intentionally came into your marriage and took something that was exclusively yours. Anger, resentment etc towards her is completely founded and there is no reason to pretend otherwise.

 

There are loads of reasons to be angry, upset, disgusted and violated. Having WS "taken" isn't one. People can only be taken away in handcuffs by the police. WS did what WS WANTED to do.

[Lois_Griffin]

She came intentionally came into your marriage and took something that was exclusively yours. Anger, resentment etc towards her is completely founded and there is no reason to pretend otherwise.

I'm going to have to disagree with this.

 

People can't 'take' what isn't being freely offered to them, and the OP didn't say anything about the OW forcing her husband at gunpoint into an affair. So that's 100% on her husband.

 

But the OW was complicit in aiding and abetting the OP's husband in keeping their affair a secret, otherwise, she would have shown up at the OP's house and told her about it. Since she played by the rules and did everything she could to help him keep it a secret, her hands are far from being clean.

[Ladyjane14]

I hate to be the one who puts up the sexist reply, but most men just don't have the same emotional dexterity as women. It's not that their feelings aren't just as deep, but by nature and by nurture, they've just got less access to nuance. They've got 20 times the testosterone and more complicated connections between the right and left hemispheres of the brain. Socially, they're trained from kindergarten to not show their emotions.

 

Now, I'm not saying they don't know right from wrong. But I find it easier to understand how they can get emotionally swamped by self-esteem issues or depression and act out sexually.

[fellini]

My WW engaged her affair with a divorced exBS with kids. Divorced because he lost his first wife to her AP about a year after dday and attempting to keep the marriage. They had two teenage kids.

 

So I'm sorry, but I do not accept that the AP is without fault when they knowingly enter into an affair with a married woman, have met the H socially, and themselves know the hell of trying to save a marriage post DDAy AND know about the effect it had on their own kids.

 

Talk about "it's all on" the WS, or you can't "take" someone away is irrelevant. In my case the AP tried to STEAL my wife from our marriage knowing the consequences of me finding out. And knowing the damage he was inflicting on our 8 year old daughter doing so.

 

And to think he acted "hurt" when he found out that after DDay he could no longer be friends or communicate with my WW, is telling about how much denial an AP is willing to accept as much as the WS.

[Morro72]

I hate to be the one who puts up the sexist reply, but most men just don't have the same emotional dexterity as women. It's not that their feelings aren't just as deep, but by nature and by nurture, they've just got less access to nuance. They've got 20 times the testosterone and more complicated connections between the right and left hemispheres of the brain. Socially, they're trained from kindergarten to not show their emotions.

 

Now, I'm not saying they don't know right from wrong. But I find it easier to understand how they can get emotionally swamped by self-esteem issues or depression and act out sexually.

Sounds like the sort of thing a girl would say.

[Ladyjane14]

Sounds like the sort of thing a girl would say.

 

Well, being female doesn't mean that one hasn't done the research or is incapable of understanding the physiological and psychological differences between males and females. While I understand that the goal is an egalitarian society where these differences aren't noted... it doesn't mean they don't exist.

[Morro72]

Well, being female doesn't mean that one hasn't done the research or is incapable of understanding the physiological and psychological differences between males and females. While I understand that the goal is an egalitarian society where these differences aren't noted... it doesn't mean they don't exist.

My goal is a society in which all people have functioning sarcasm detectors.

[ladydesigner]

WS did what WS WANTED to do.

 

Absolutely WH did what he wanted to. That is the way I see it now. I actually thank MOW for showing me who my WH really is, if it weren't for their A and then my WH taking underground, I would have still thought my WH was a good person.

[Be_Strong]

I have no problem with anyone blaming an AP for their role in an affair--except for the very rare times when the AP does not know the person is in a committed relationship. Sure, your WH's actions are more deplorable, but the AP is no saint.

[Lion Heart]

Your exactly right. If not her he would be with someone else. When your h decided to cheat, he effectively blew the marriage up. Game over. Btw do you ever read chump lady?

 

GOTTA LOVE CHUMP LADY!!

 

Lion Heart.

[Lion Heart]

I hate to be the one who puts up the sexist reply, but most men just don't have the same emotional dexterity as women. It's not that their feelings aren't just as deep, but by nature and by nurture, they've just got less access to nuance. They've got 20 times the testosterone and more complicated connections between the right and left hemispheres of the brain. Socially, they're trained from kindergarten to not show their emotions.

 

Now, I'm not saying they don't know right from wrong. But I find it easier to understand how they can get emotionally swamped by self-esteem issues or depression and act out sexually.

 

MASSIVE cop out there! Is that a joke??? ^^^^^

Must be otherwise this "scientific account" for every boy to man from kindergarten MUST cover all the cheating WOMEN too!

 

Come on man. Reality is any person has an affair primarily because they WANT TO. Man or woman.

 

The ones who don't have affairs have a FAR better character and a list of other traits lacking in people who cheat. That's far closer to scientific fact than the joke you posted.

 

Lion Heart.

[Lion Heart]

Hi ladydesigner

 

I'm with you.

I'm SO grateful to WH OW for pressuring him to tell me about her or she would that day! Ofcourse her motivations were to go to his parents for Christmas Day (10 days later) with him "in love". Oh and she thought she had her next gravy train and she was gonna live in my house and be my children's "new mummy". Telling me was the only sane thought she had but it backfired 1000%.

 

Instead of Christmas dinner with the in-laws, mother-in-law had OW sacked from her position as a religious teacher plus moves to have her removed from the religion.

 

I won't go on about OWs consequences but suffice to say she took WH word as truth (LOL) and planned her future with my children in my house. So misled. So imaginative!

 

I am relieved that OW exposed WH to me. I've spent 9 months finding out all about the other OWs! Where there's a rat, there's probably a rats nest. And there was!

 

I also thought my WH was a "nice guy" at least in front of others. I guess that depended on their sex and if I was present or not! Yep. That bad. The complete opposite of a good person or a good husband or a good father.

 

Exposure hurts these types. He's under a psychiatrist and a different psychologist plus on meds.

 

I like your attitude ladydesigner. Good for you.

 

Lion Heart.

[Ladyjane14]

MASSIVE cop out there! Is that a joke??? ^^^^^

Must be otherwise this "scientific account" for every boy to man from kindergarten MUST cover all the cheating WOMEN too!

 

Come on man. Reality is any person has an affair primarily because they WANT TO. Man or woman.

 

The ones who don't have affairs have a FAR better character and a list of other traits lacking in people who cheat. That's far closer to scientific fact than the joke you posted.

 

Lion Heart.

 

Nope. It's not a joke. I've spent more than a decade looking into it.

 

Now I'm not arguing the point that waywards cheat because that's what they WANT to do. But when it comes to why they want to do it... men are far more likely to become emotionally swamped and allow their physiology to outweigh better sense.

 

And when it comes to others... yeah, I find other women more culpable. Everyone knows you don't screw someone else's spouse, of course. But other women have the same emotional tools in their kit that I do, and do it anyway.

 

Don't mistake me.. we are all capable of behaving with integrity. I'm not saying we aren't. But while Chump Lady can describe the cheating apparatus, she doesn't really question why it exists.

[nightmare01]

Unless you're raised in the jungle or in some society I can't fathom, you KNOW that cheating on your spouse is wrong. And if you're single and getting involved with a married person you KNOW that's wrong too.

 

IMO people choose to have affairs. They know it's wrong but choose to go ahead and cheat anyway. The fact that they keep it a secret shows that they KNOW what they are doing is wrong and that it will hurt lots of people. They keep those secrets and do it anyway.

 

Both the WS and AP are equally at fault for making that choice. But a WS owes more to their spouse than does the AP. We do live in a civilized society however, and so the AP does carry some responsibility for the pain they cause the other person's spouse. The BS anger at the AP is entirely justified IMO.

 

We're not all victims of our hormones. We have the power to say NO to temptation whether we are male or female. Our sex does not in any way make us less culpable for the destruction we choose to bring into the lives of others.

 

I think fixing that internal / moral mechanism that made it ok to make that choice is more important than investigating any why's. Why's IMO tend to sound more like excuses because they fall in along the lines of hormones, or a bad marriage somehow made them cheat.

[Spark1111]

Unless you're raised in the jungle or in some society I can't fathom, you KNOW that cheating on your spouse is wrong. And if you're single and getting involved with a married person you KNOW that's wrong too.

 

IMO people choose to have affairs. They know it's wrong but choose to go ahead and cheat anyway. The fact that they keep it a secret shows that they KNOW what they are doing is wrong and that it will hurt lots of people. They keep those secrets and do it anyway.

 

Both the WS and AP are equally at fault for making that choice. But a WS owes more to their spouse than does the AP. We do live in a civilized society however, and so the AP does carry some responsibility for the pain they cause the other person's spouse. The BS anger at the AP is entirely justified IMO.

 

We're not all victims of our hormones. We have the power to say NO to temptation whether we are male or female. Our sex does not in any way make us less culpable for the destruction we choose to bring into the lives of others.

 

I think fixing that internal / moral mechanism that made it ok to make that choice is more important than investigating any why's. Why's IMO tend to sound more like excuses because they fall in along the lines of hormones, or a bad marriage somehow made them cheat.

 

I agree with this and Lady Jane's post.

 

You will never fix the internal moral mechanism that made it okay to choose to cheat until you get to the real why......and that has NOTHING to do with hormones or poor mariages.

 

It really has to do with low self-esteem, poor communication skills and conflict avoidance and few who embark on infidelity have the courage to examine that deeply. You have to want to go back to childhood to do so.....and like i stated, few choose to embrace that painful path.

 

Could men be more tempted to cheat because they have 10 times the testosterone women do? Could be.

 

But i believe women who cheat suffer the same characteristics as men who do, and they aren't physical in nature and affairs are not as prevalent as people say and I do Not believe if it wasn't this woman, it would be someone else.

 

APs have to find each other and share the same characteristics and be complicit in secrecy and betrayal and it is not as common as people think, IMO.

[Spectre]

I actually disagree with you if this MOW knew that your husband was married. It takes two to tango, your hubby blew the marriage and this woman had zero qualms about helping him do so. He should of known it was wrong and she should of known it was wrong. Especially because she has a husband of her own.

[Lion Heart]

Hi ladydesigner and LS peeps

 

Gosh we're an analytical bunch and it's great to get perspectives on the pain we share as BSs.

 

Anger about a spouse's affair is a biggie.

The psychologist I saw 4 days after D Day Number 1 said "you are just as angry as the amount you had invested in the M" and she wasn't talking $$ investment either but that's a biggie too!

I KNOW I was FURIOUS with WH.

I questioned the D Day Number 1 OW very gently and with compassion actually. All I knew when I phoned her was her name. I did become angry with her when I found out she had approached each of my 3 children in the school playground to introduce herself blah blah blah. The principal later banned her from entering school grounds ever.

 

I was angry at WH for exposing OUR children! And me and our home address and my workplace (part of his grooming routine).

 

Now I'm furious or angry or upset about SO many things around the affairs like WH motivation for them? The energy he used to deliberately groom each victim. Some were victims of sorts. He'd lied through his teeth. Some were eager and willing participants who JUMPED at the chance at his first comment ie

his affair with my "friend" who knew me, that we were married and knew all our children by name. THAT one took alot to be calm with but I got her story in the end. Much diluted but admission nonetheless.

 

So many things.

 

I'm trying desperately to diffuse my own anger about alot of things to do with WHs affairs (I mean my husband but almost choke at calling him "my" anything. In fact he was any body's! Puke).

 

I know my confusion... frustration...gobsmackedness! At the AUDACITY of WH makes me volcanically ERUPT! But it's only been 20 days since the "friend" A and the "old woman" A came out. Plus TT of "lesser events" leading up to those 2 big ones. It's truly crazy making stuff!

 

I know that suppressed anger has actually twisted my oesophagus. The A fogs made WH an extremely frustrating person to live with but if I knew about his As. .. I would have let my anger out instead of swallowing it.

 

I'm trying to let my anger OUT but I have a caring, loving, attentive side to me that's suppressed now. I just WANT ME BACK!

 

So that's my point. .finally lol. How can we as BSs allow our anger to be released in a healthy way, if that's possible but at least in a LEGAL way, so we can be the true essence of our selves? The triggers were shocking after D Day Number 1. Constant and relentless. I drank alcohol for a whole month solid only to be released into the sober reality of PTSD. 4 months to work effectively. Yeah I caught up.

 

But now it's back. I shake and lose words and feel my blood boil too often for my OWN liking. Triggers of different varieties! Roar!

 

Humour helps because it's so ridiculous! I have a desperate need to put this wasted fuel into something creative. I can't create a thing to hate! The memory of this time would haunt me every time I look at it anywhere. So I can't garden. But I must find some thing. I've got ideas but they're still in the creation stages in my mind.

 

I just realized I'm impatient with my own healing time.

Thanks guys.

 

I just feel like the angriest person on the planet right now!

X

Lion Heart.

[USEDOW]

So you think a psychiatrist is going to help that he doesn't want to be with you.... Sheesh I've heard it all

[ladydesigner]

So you think a psychiatrist is going to help that he doesn't want to be with you.... Sheesh I've heard it all

 

No but a psychiatrist can help a person figure out their destructive thinking patterns and coping mechanisms.

[Zenstudent]

Lion heart, why don't you open your own thread, you may get some valuable perspectives, ideas and support to deal with your anger - most of us have been there, I believe.

[Lion Heart]

So you think a psychiatrist is going to help that he doesn't want to be with you.... Sheesh I've heard it all

 

Is this a general question or a direct criticism? Lol.

 

I will respond from my personal perspective.

WH WANTS to see a Psychiatrist AND a psychologist because his life is a total mess! His employment has ALWAYS been a mess! I supported his training in FIVE different career choices of HIS OWN choosing in 15 years. Wow hey? It wasn't the jobs, it was his NPD sense of ENTITLEMENT that made him feel "I shouldn't really have to work. I can do whatever I like and I get it all on a platter." He is LAZY, SELFISH, self-centred, Narcissistic! And he now knows it's ruined his life at 45yo. He has ruined his own life! He only devastated ours for a short while tbh. We are recovering exceedingly well considering and will come out of this squeaky clean and secure. Because I'm not mentally ill (yes temporary insanity but checked out for everything).

 

I haven't checked your background Usednow but I intuit you are an AP.

 

I have told WH REPEATEDLY TO HAVE the OWs! Get out and have them all! At once if he wants! Would he ACTUALLY want a 70yo? Take her to meet his parents of the same age? They could discuss pensions and old aged care I suppose but the only thing that AP & WH had was their perversion for sex acts!

Oh yeah he can have her all right but SHE doesn't want him either lol.

 

My "friend" does every door knocking salesman I just discovered. No I hadn't seen her since this A but I met her at HS 30+ years ago and WH met her at playgroup when my twins were 1yo. Sickos! Not this APs ex-husband nor any man since has ACTUALLY wanted her long term. She's been single for over a decade! Now I wonder why? ....lol.

 

Let's be straight here for my situation at least. WH knows I'm divorcing his lazy, cheating a$$. There is ABSOLUTELY NO QUESTION of that. None.

 

WH wants to see a Psychiatrist AND a different psychologist to get well for me (puke) but IMO and more importantly FOR HIS CHILDREN. He has THREE biological children with me and there is NO WAY ON THIS EARTH that any Court of law would give him any freedom of access to my children considering his wayward behaviours that brought APs approaching them all in their school playground! He's a crazy loose cannon. Atm.

 

The only "access" to his kids would be what THEY request atm. 1-2 hours on a Saturday WITH SUPERVISION. My brother supervising. My eldest D or son-in-law etc. A RESPONSIBLE adult! And that was THEIR idea. Never seeing their grandparents again. They are crazy too duh.

 

So it's absolutely NOT for him to decide if WH "WANTS" me ofcourse he does. THATS a no brainer. It's just that he wanted "fun on the side", affairs, my money, OS holidays I paid for. He wanted all this too! He was a cake-eater! He knows he couldn't have taken ONE of those APs anywhere! He would have been embarrassed being seen with them. He never could have introduced them to his parents NOR one of his friends! He proudly took me to meet every single one asap.

 

There was NEVER A QUESTION in his mind that he was ever gonna leave us for any one of them. He "loved" us. He USED them. I was used immorally too IMHO so I'm divorcing WH.

 

I've actually pointed out to WH many times that he needs a psych to tell him that he doesn't love me!

 

I want him convinced.

I sure am but then we are talking several mental illness diagnoses here. Lives in Fairyland.

 

I hope you recover usednow. Present behaviours dictate your future.

 

Lion Heart.

[ladydesigner]

Is this a general question or a direct criticism? Lol.

 

I will respond from my personal perspective.

WH WANTS to see a Psychiatrist AND a psychologist because his life is a total mess! His employment has ALWAYS been a mess! I supported his training in FIVE different career choices of HIS OWN choosing in 15 years. Wow hey? It wasn't the jobs, it was his NPD sense of ENTITLEMENT that made him feel "I shouldn't really have to work. I can do whatever I like and I get it all on a platter." He is LAZY, SELFISH, self-centred, Narcissistic! And he now knows it's ruined his life at 45yo. He has ruined his own life! He only devastated ours for a short while tbh. We are recovering exceedingly well considering and will come out of this squeaky clean and secure. Because I'm not mentally ill (yes temporary insanity but checked out for everything).

 

I haven't checked your background Usednow but I intuit you are an AP.

 

I have told WH REPEATEDLY TO HAVE the OWs! Get out and have them all! At once if he wants! Would he ACTUALLY want a 70yo? Take her to meet his parents of the same age? They could discuss pensions and old aged care I suppose but the only thing that AP & WH had was their perversion for sex acts!

Oh yeah he can have her all right but SHE doesn't want him either lol.

 

My "friend" does every door knocking salesman I just discovered. No I hadn't seen her since this A but I met her at HS 30+ years ago and WH met her at playgroup when my twins were 1yo. Sickos! Not this APs ex-husband nor any man since has ACTUALLY wanted her long term. She's been single for over a decade! Now I wonder why? ....lol.

 

Let's be straight here for my situation at least. WH knows I'm divorcing his lazy, cheating a$$. There is ABSOLUTELY NO QUESTION of that. None.

 

WH wants to see a Psychiatrist AND a different psychologist to get well for me (puke) but IMO and more importantly FOR HIS CHILDREN. He has THREE biological children with me and there is NO WAY ON THIS EARTH that any Court of law would give him any freedom of access to my children considering his wayward behaviours that brought APs approaching them all in their school playground! He's a crazy loose cannon. Atm.

 

The only "access" to his kids would be what THEY request atm. 1-2 hours on a Saturday WITH SUPERVISION. My brother supervising. My eldest D or son-in-law etc. A RESPONSIBLE adult! And that was THEIR idea. Never seeing their grandparents again. They are crazy too duh.

 

So it's absolutely NOT for him to decide if WH "WANTS" me ofcourse he does. THATS a no brainer. It's just that he wanted "fun on the side", affairs, my money, OS holidays I paid for. He wanted all this too! He was a cake-eater! He knows he couldn't have taken ONE of those APs anywhere! He would have been embarrassed being seen with them. He never could have introduced them to his parents NOR one of his friends! He proudly took me to meet every single one asap.

 

There was NEVER A QUESTION in his mind that he was ever gonna leave us for any one of them. He "loved" us. He USED them. I was used immorally too IMHO so I'm divorcing WH.

 

I've actually pointed out to WH many times that he needs a psych to tell him that he doesn't love me!

 

I want him convinced.

I sure am but then we are talking several mental illness diagnoses here. Lives in Fairyland.

 

I hope you recover usednow. Present behaviours dictate your future.

 

Lion Heart.

 

(((Lion Heart))) my WH sounds very much like yours! An entitled cake-eating narcissist . I probably should be following suit and get a D as well! I've let my WH 'hoover' me one too many times. I know better now.