Why do guys refuse to provide closure?

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

My ex-boyfriend broke up with me last month....on the phone (yeah, how cowardly). Just a few days before we were celebrating our first anniversary. Dave planned for us to meet at the wine bar where we first met, made reservations at a fancy restaurant, and surprised me with an anniversary card in which he wrote the most beautiful words of love to me. He said I was his treasure, and that words could not describe how much he loved me. That weekend he told me that he was feeling closer to me than ever.

 

So I was really surprised. Didn't see this coming. And when Dave broke up with me, he refused to really answer all the questions I had. All he would say is that his "heart wasn't in it anymore." And that he thinks that just because two people love each other, doesn't mean that they should be together. I was (still am) devistated.

 

A couple of weeks later I learned from a friend that my Dave was most likely pursuing some ex-grad school "friend" just a few weeks before our anniversary. So I keep trying to get Dave to tell me why there were so many contradictions in his actions. I sent him the following email:

 

"Please read this before you delete it. My intention isn’t to bother you, because I know you’re moving on…but for my own sake I’m really trying to too, and it’s very hard to when I can’t understand how things really happened because of the contradictions. Questions haunt me, and I’m very numb, having so much trouble sleeping or eating. Therapy helps, but it doesn’t clarify some things. I really need to know if your decision to give up on our relationship was really about how you felt about a future together with me – and if so, then why does it sound like you were already pursuing someone else even before you planned that nice anniversary dinner and gave me the card you wrote those really big things in? If you were already thinking about being with this other person, then why present false feelings and intentions to me or play games with my heart? I’m not asking this to point blame, or to anger you, I just really need to understand, because it’s so confusing to me because I really felt that your words, intentions and actions were real. I really want to know what was true and what wasn’t."

 

Anyway, I just need closure. All of this not knowing is killing me. But of course, I haven't gotten a response from him.

 

If he really did cheat on me (sexually or in his heart), I am having a hard time understanding how he could do that...because he always resented his father for cheating on his mom. And he told me that he was always proud of the fact that he never cheated in past relationships, and never would. Plus, he's a shrink. You'd think he'd know how to treat someone...even if dumping me on the phone was very disrespectful to someone who gave him a year of their life.

 

Any thoughts? This stuff is keeping me up at night.

[DeaconFrost]

Well, I myself have a ton of unanswered questions going through my head these days as well (and I did the breaking up). And yes they at times probe deep into my brain. I even dream about them from time to time. The only conclusion that I am coming to is that I will NEVER receive answers to these questions.

 

A word of thought and advice to you...your not going to get a response from him. Accept it. And even if you do get a response, it will be half assed, unfulfilling, and only leave you with more questions that will piss you off even more. It sucks big time, but so do taxes...we just have to deal with it. Maybe I can sympathize with you in a few brief words...

 

Words are useless in love. They are merely poetry that is the first introduction into expressing the unexpressable. What he had written (or said) may have been warm and heartfelt, but without action to prove those words the text is meaningless. Love is not something you say, but something you do. If he dumped you immeadiately after your anniversary celebration than consider those words as nothing more than junk. They might as well have came printed on the card. He couldn't have meant them...he merely wrote them because he felt obligated to.

 

As for the dumping on the phone thing...I'll apologize for all guys and say "I'm sorry." Part of me thinks its genetically programmed in us to do this (we've all done it at one time...or recently in my case I wish I hadn't...it's harsh). I guess out of sight out of mind really does apply here. Sometimes things are so difficult to handle/deal with/accept that we do stupid stuff. I know your searching for closure, but I think in some ways we ALL are searching for closure that will never be truly achieved because a part of us will always feel unsatisfied. Just hang in there and keep telling yourself that you can't keep asking these questions. All you can do is move on and forget as best as you can...

 

Take care

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

Thanks for the response DeaconFrost. I know what you're saying is right. But "moving on" is so much easier said than done. The reason I haven't been able to move on is because I'm haunted with these questions that he hasn't had the balls to answer. I feel stuck. So very stuck. And to make it worse, I am clinically depressed, and this latest thing has thrown me back down into the deepest pit of depression. I feel suicidal most of the time, and therapy and drugs do little to help.

[DeaconFrost]

Whoa!!! Slow down girl. Between me and you, do not ever type, think, or say that again. I don't care what you perceive, but let me tell you that you are a flower and have a TON of worth. I understand things hurt deeply, but i promise you it is only temporary. I PROMISE. You can rely on yourself...you totally can get over it. It just takes patience. Everyone gets in funks, but you HAVE to stay positive. Don't give this guy the satisfaction of bringing you down. Answers are trivial in the end. Just be happy that you saved yourself from even worse heartache that could have happened years down the road if you stayed together longer.

 

What has been helping me lately is realizing that I'm lucky to get out of the mess I was in before it got worse, I'm a damn good catch, and I'm starting to find my way again towards Christ. There is something humbling in making peace with God. Maybe it could help you...

 

You are a flower that deserves to shine. Remember that. Don't cheat yourself out of soaking in that sunshine.

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

Thanks for saying that. Really. I know you don't know me, but it helps to hear that, even from a stranger. If it weren't for my very devoted mother, and a couple of good girlfriends, I don't think if I'd be alive right now. Depression makes these break-ups a million times worse than for someone without it. Hey, I just noticed...you're a Chicagoan too! Hi neighbor.

[DeaconFrost]

Well hello to you too! (You from the burbs or in chi?). Your welcome for the words. I wouldn't say them unless I thought they were true!

 

I know its tough. You wouldn't be human if you didn't hurt. But what your experiencing is just a small bump in the road. It seems big now, but as you keep driving the bump gets smaller and smaller in the rear view mirror. As I like to say, everything's gonna be AG (All Good ).

 

If it makes you feel any better, I fully acknowledge that most boys out there (they're not men...and probably never will be) are just savages. They only thing that sperates them from monkeys is that the don't throw s**t at you when they're bored (They just talk it ). This guy and anyone like him are not even worthy of your prescence. I say good riddance...

 

Do some chill-laxing in a spot that is just warm and fuzzy. Do something that's a break from the norm. That always helps me.

 

But most importantly, whenever you start to feel a little blue just tell yourself one thing...

 

There are never to many flowers in this world. Stay bright Sunshine...

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

I'm on the northwest side of chitown...orginally from the burbs.

 

The monkey analogy made me laugh! Thanks. I suppose it's true though. Somehow I thought he'd be a little more evolved on the monkey scale, since he's a shrink and should understand human emotions and how to treat someone respectfully in a relationship. But now I'm beginning to believe that a lot of shrinks are more messed up than their patients.

 

Part of my problem (and I do recognize it), is that I give too much of myself in relationships. Always being the one to love and commit more fully than the other. Someone on LS said that men like b!tches. I guess I'll have to learn to become one in order to keep a man.

[DeaconFrost]

Originally posted by jen_jen_heartbroken

Part of my problem (and I do recognize it), is that I give too much of myself in relationships. Always being the one to love and commit more fully than the other. Someone on LS said that men like b!tches. I guess I'll have to learn to become one in order to keep a man.

 

NOOOOOO!!!! Don't ever change that. Most men who are looking for a real relationship can't stand bitches. They're so damn high maintenance. If you start acting this way I'm going to have to file you in the "reject" category. Seriously don't ever change who you are because you meet idiot guys. Stay loving and stay passionate about it. It'll pay dividends in the end.

 

Your problem is not that you give too much. There is no such thing. I'll argue that the problem is one of timing. You probably expose yourself too early (It's okay...I where my heart on my shoulder too). Why would you want to give less to a relationship and make it less robust and powerful? Maybe you should just be a bit more selective and make a guy prove he is commitment worthy. You'll get a greater degree of assurance that way. Trust me, when they're interested (the right ones, that is) they will let you know.

 

Please don't become a bitter, little priss who thinks she is God's gift to man. Stay to true to who you are and never change because you meet juvenille guys. Don't hide your heart, just cover it up a bit more until the coast is clear (but for God's sakes don't hibernate).

 

BTW, I have some strange feeling like I should know you. You don't go to college do you?

[ReluctantRomeo]

Deacon seems to have covered this one pretty well, but I wanted to throw in my 2 cents.

 

First, it's not just guys who phone-dump. Juliet was in my house and told me it wasn't over, then ran off to her mum's (in another town) and rang me from there to dump me.

 

Another thing: some people are willing to help give closure, some aren't. It's always more difficult when they aren't. But closure still comes eventually. For example, you could remind yourself what a coward he was in the way he dumped you - not exactly prime relationship material. And mean too.

 

Please don't turn into a bitch - there are too many of them out there already. Deacon is right - those of us who are looking for real relationships are actively trying to filter out high maintenance girls and bitches.

 

He's also right that it's really a question of timing. Don't give too much too soon. Be sure you're at the same stage as the guy. Read Mars and Venus on a date, for a description of 5 stages of commitment. It is wise only to advance to the next stage together. And not to skip or rush stages.

[XNemesisX]

It does look like Deacon has covered this well but I wanted to throw some comments in....

 

Was your ex your own therapist before you got together? I ask this because I know that these sorts of relationships can occur more often than you think in therapist/client relations. If so, he already has been in a power position over you and maybe that is a hard image to break from. You might feel like he has all the control and power over you and your happiness especially if he used to be your own therapist who you confided in. If you already have psychological troubles, this might have made it even worse.

 

I am so sorry for what you are going through. If it makes you feel any better, I am still upset over my breakup and it was *7* months ago

 

I don't cry and feel as sick as I used to though. All of these thoughts you are having will pass. I am sure you have been in a relationship before this one, right? Do you remember how you felt in that relationship? You probably thought to yourself that you could never see yourself with anyone else, right? Then look! You found someone again, and you were able to feel that love again!

 

That is what I remind myself of constantly. I have loved before my last ex. I got over it...I found another person...and so the cycle goes until you find the one you are truly meant to be with.

 

You will find someone again, and you will love someone again. Just remember that all pain is temporary. Do not ever say you feel like killing yourself. I suffer from Major Depressive Disorder myself so I struggle with these same things you do. It does make a breakup worse than for someone who does not have MDD or clinical depression. But imagine this..what if you killed yourself and then maybe just days later you met your soul mate? Or what if there really IS life after death and you find you are no happier after your death? Just some thoughts...

 

Please hang in there and be strong...we are all here for you on here and most of us (if not all) can relate to what you are going through.

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

Originally posted by XNemesisX

Was your ex your own therapist before you got together?

 

No! Of course not. That's totally unethical, and anyone who does that can lose their license.

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

Originally posted by DeaconFrost

Maybe you should just be a bit more selective and make a guy prove he is commitment worthy. You'll get a greater degree of assurance that way.

 

I thought I was being selective. He came to my Grandma's funeral and held my hand through the entire wake...and this was after just five months of dating. That was also the day he first told me that he was in love with me. He did plenty of things like this to prove himself.

 

Stay to true to who you are and never change because you meet juvenille guys.

 

I suppose part of him may be emotionally stunted, but he's 37, not exactly someone I would expect to be juvenille.

 

Don't hide your heart, just cover it up a bit more until the coast is clear (but for God's sakes don't hibernate).

 

Hibernating sounds lovely. That's exactly what I'm doing today.

 

BTW, I have some strange feeling like I should know you. You don't go to college do you?

 

Nah. I haven't been college-aged for nearly ten years.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by DeaconFrost

NOOOOOO!!!! Don't ever change that. Most men who are looking for a real relationship can't stand bitches. They're so damn high maintenance. If you start acting this way I'm going to have to file you in the "reject" category. Seriously don't ever change who you are because you meet idiot guys. Stay loving and stay passionate about it. It'll pay dividends in the end.

 

Excellent advice!

 

Your problem is not that you give too much. There is no such thing. I'll argue that the problem is one of timing. You probably expose yourself too early (It's okay...I where my heart on my shoulder too). Why would you want to give less to a relationship and make it less robust and powerful? Maybe you should just be a bit more selective and make a guy prove he is commitment worthy. You'll get a greater degree of assurance that way. Trust me, when they're interested (the right ones, that is) they will let you know.

 

Right on target again. You can give too much too soon. I did the same thing and it pushed her away. She didn't believe I could love so much, so fast. I also agree on the timing issue as well as MATURITY. But most of all, it's about being UNEQUALLY YOKED. He's not in the same place she is. When that happens, the SO thinks you are giving too much when you really are doing exactly what you should when you are deeply in love: Showing them!

 

Please don't become a bitter, little priss who thinks she is God's gift to man. Stay to true to who you are and never change because you meet juvenille guys. Don't hide your heart, just cover it up a bit more until the coast is clear (but for God's sakes don't hibernate).

 

Staying true to who you are instead of playing games to land a man is indeed the best way to go. The reason for that is simple. You can't really change who you are and when you find someone who appreciates you for who you are, you will have a relationship that is blissful and will last a lifetime. People who ply with games and manipulation to win a mate will eventually become their normal selves and lose their SO because it's not the same person they fell for.

[DeaconFrost]

Originally posted by jen_jen_heartbroken

I thought I was being selective. He came to my Grandma's funeral and held my hand through the entire wake...and this was after just five months of dating. That was also the day he first told me that he was in love with me. He did plenty of things like this to prove himself.

I'm not trying to disenchant you at all, but aren't these things that EVERY boyfriend is supposed to do, especially after five months? Hell, I do these things after one week . What we're saying is that all you can do is gauge and be objective as best as possible. After five months I say it was certainly fair to allow yourself to show your true love. Maybe this instance has nothing to do with giving too much too soon. Maybe it just happened to be something that didn't work because it wasn't meant to.

 

If you know you have a habit of letting yourself give too early then just be a bit more akin to it in the future. Just try talking to him and ask him what he feels and where he is in the relationship. There are plenty of ways to do this without showing all your cards and scaring him away. If you get him talking about it chances are he'll tell you more than you thought is happening (yeah he's totally in love too!) and he'll be happy that your interested or he'll tell you where he's at and you can hold off a bit longer if need be. I know its frustrating, but its part of the dance of dating. I still say though that the one's who are worthy and are totally into you won't need time to figure out anything. They'll know that they're nuts about you and if you ask them I'll bet they would be delighted to tell you...

 

Originally posted by jen_jen_heartbroken

I suppose part of him may be emotionally stunted, but he's 37, not exactly someone I would expect to be juvenille.

Age is just a number. He may be 37 but he's probably still a kid who just happens to have a decent sized paycheck and signs of gray hair. Juvenille comes in all shapes and sizes. They can exist for a person's lifetime and given that there are so many goofs (or stunods as I like to call them) wasting space out there I'd say its hereditary too.

 

Originally posted by jen_jen_heartbroken

Hibernating sounds lovely. That's exactly what I'm doing today.

That's cool. I just meant it in a context where I'm saying that you shouldn't be emotionally closed off in the future (as in your emotions hibernating). Take some time for you and read a book or something. The waste that's on TV isn't going to help. Open the windows and get some fresh air too. It's a nice day today in our neck of the woods. Plus its $2 beers (w/ wings!) at McGees today (Sheridan and Racine I think..right by the Red line). Get some of the girls together and go out. Whatever will make you happiest. Just throwing out some suggestions

 

It'll be AG. I promise

[whitewhale]

Part of my problem (and I do recognize it), is that I give too much of myself in relationships. Always being the one to love and commit more fully than the other. Someone on LS said that men like b!tches. I guess I'll have to learn to become one in order to keep a man.

 

might have been me.. but I don't own the phrase, it's rather popular now - there's a book with that title "why men love bitches"

 

as 4 the guy, the out of the blue sceneario is what happened to me too, and there's no way he could give me sensible explanation beyond "I don't love you any more" "ur not the one" etc

 

consider him a lost cause, a jerk, whatever, sb who did what he did without any of the reasons that would really help you if you knew them. he might not really know himself.

[whitewhale]

NOOOOOO!!!! Don't ever change that. Most men who are looking for a real relationship can't stand bitches. They're so damn high maintenance

 

hmm, have you read the book?? because it has nothing to do with being a cold-hearted, money-oriented, luxury-drawn person. it's only about being who you are - also in a relationship.

 

I'm not quite sure I'm good at being that kind of self-reliant person. the key word about the new kind of bitch and sorry for the word, it's not really mine, is "intriguing" - don't you guys like that??

 

as for giving - I agree partly, but I resolved never to give more than I get, men loose respect for me when I do that. or for other women who do that, actually.

that's a mere observation. I haven't observed the WHOLE of male population on this planet LOL and I don't have a monopoly on truth, but I like to butt is sometimes

[whitewhale]

Originally posted by whitewhale

but I like to butt is sometimes

 

my English must be deteriorating - I meant sth like to throw in my two cents, and I remembered vaguely there's sth like "butt in", but can't really recollect

[XNemesisX]

Originally posted by jen_jen_heartbroken

No! Of course not. That's totally unethical, and anyone who does that can lose their license.

 

Doesn't mean it never happens! In the psychology dept at my school, it was talked about a LOT. Sorry if I offended you! Just thought that it could be possible...and something being unethical doesn't mean it doesn't happen...

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

Got fired today for being sick with debilitating degenerative disc disease and having taken time off. Now I don't have my job or my boyfriend or my health anymore. Rent is overdue and I'm broke from all the medical costs. My life is over.

[XNemesisX]

Your life is not over. Do you have any friends or family that can help you out for a while?

[jen_jen_heartbroken]

My family and friends are all of the fair-weather variety. My family is virtually non-existent, and the one friend that would help if she could is broke and living back at home. The other "friends" will give me a hug, pat me on the back and tell me it's going to be okay (easy for them to say), but they'd never open their wallets or their home.

[ReluctantRomeo]

Originally posted by jen_jen_heartbroken

Got fired today for being sick with debilitating degenerative disc disease and having taken time off. Now I don't have my job or my boyfriend or my health anymore. Rent is overdue and I'm broke from all the medical costs. My life is over.

 

I'm so sorry to hear this. How awful

 

There must be somewhere you can turn when such things happen, surely?

[DeaconFrost]

I know things can be beyond overwhelming at times, but your life is not over. When the s**t hits the fan you have to regroup and figure how to fix the situation. You need to take charge and resolve the issues. Jobs come and go. Health and relationship status improve. You just have to stay positive and know that and the end of the day you have pumped out as much as you can. Take a day to decompress and slow down. Then from the next day on figure out how to attack the situation and make your life improve. You've got the power sista...its just waiting for you to tap into it. Everyone has someone they can ask for help. Just ask! I bet they be willing to help out in some way, even if it is not monetarily. Maybe they know someone that's hiring. You never know. Ya gotta stay positive.

 

BTW, I don't see how they can fire you for medical issues. Its against the Family and Medical Leave Act to can someone when there health has taken a toll a bit. You should do some investigation here and find out if your rights have been violated.

[katiebour]

Hi Jen,

 

Breakups suck. Men who are so immature that they lie to your face, telling you they love you, then break up with you the next day suck. I was there four months ago and it still hurts.

 

As for the unanswered questions, I asked my ex all those questions, and he answered. I found that I became more and more depressed with each answer, each detail of why I wasn't right for him, of all the things I did wrong. Men don't neccessarily feel bad or guilty the way we'd like them to when we confront them with their lies and question them- some see it as an opportunity to list all the reasons why they're breaking up with you, as if any of those reasons would be a good enough excuse for breaking someone's heart.

 

Consider it carefully- do you really want to know why he lied to your face, in a big way about loving you? Do you really want to know if he was sneaking around behind your back with another woman right before your anniversary? Speaking from experience, the answers won't neccessarily make you feel any better. My ex made love to me in the most romantic, passionate way a month before we broke up- when I asked him how he could do that if he didn't love me, he just shrugged and said that he "enjoyed it."

 

I understand wanting to hibernate, hide away from all the stress and unhappiness. My whole career to this point just collapsed last weekend and now I'm making preparations to move to the Midwest with my folks, find a new job and hope that 2006 is better than 2005.

 

Jen, you need to take care of yourself. Whatever else happens, this is your life, and you may only have one (depending on your religious philosophy.) Treat yourself as though you were a friend of yours who was going through the same thing. If your friend had lost her love and her job, what would you do for her? What kindnesses would you show her? Think about it, then do those things for yourself.

 

Go outside, and forget about yesterday. Forget about tomorrow. Go to the park, enjoy the feel of grass beneath your feet, the blue sky overhead. Smell some flowers, take a good book. Escape into a book, a movie, or something healthy if you need to. Sometimes life is overwhelming, and we need to step back, relax, and get those stress hormones out of our systems. I know what it feels like, and it sucks.

 

There's a little green book called "How to Survive the Loss of a Love" that was a lifesaver for me. There's one section that I remember vividly, titled "The question of suicide." Their view was, "Keep it a question, because it's never an answer."

 

It takes courage to live, to face the music, to wake up every day alone, with no prospect of love/security in the near future. It's hard, but you can do it. This is your life, your experience here. Don't let any man make you give that up. There's so much beauty in the world, so much that you haven't seen; don't let him take that away from you.

 

Take care of yourself Jen- you're not the only person to feel this way. You've gotten your feet kicked out from underneath you, and it's hard. Take whatever time and help you need to get back on your feet.

 

You're a good woman, a strong woman, and you can get through this. I'm counting on you- I know you can do it.

 

Sending loving thoughts your way. Big Hugs!

[sleeplessincnd]

Originally posted by DeaconFrost

 

 

Words are useless in love. They are merely poetry that is the first introduction into expressing the unexpressable. What he had written (or said) may have been warm and heartfelt, but without action to prove those words the text is meaningless. Love is not something you say, but something you do. If he dumped you immeadiately after your anniversary celebration than consider those words as nothing more than junk. They might as well have came printed on the card. He couldn't have meant them...he merely wrote them because he felt obligated to.

 

I just have a question for Deacon - my situation is the opposite. My man was never very good at saying he loved me but he showed it all the time, that is why this whole break-up thing seems so strange. This was our second attempt that this relationship and both times it ended with him just saying that he didn't really have those "feelings" for me anymore. The first time it took about a month from him to realize that he really did want to be with me but now we have been back together for 2 months and we are right back where we were.

 

He has never changed his level of commitment tho, I can always tell that he loves me by the way he treats me. So what does it mean when he shows you he loves you all the time but tells you otherwise?

Right up until the end it felt like he loved me, doing things like buying me lunch, paying for outings, calling me hunny and sweetie (this was just hours before the break up).

 

Is this an indication that it might not be just about us and there might be extenuating circumstances impacting our relationship?

 

Thanks for the advice!