things have been going downhill, but last night about put me over

[oldshirt]

I've

 

If you know she's uncomfortable, why even pursue it? I know, you want sex. I know sex is bonding. I know. But where is the concern for what it's doing to her sexual feelings for you? The long term damage it may be doing to your sex life? That break from sex, so that she can get healed after a birth, or adjust to menopausal symptoms, is an investment in a life long sexual relationship.

 

I don't keep pursuing it once I know she's hurting. That's my point.

 

I do try to explore remedies and alternative techniques and accommodations. But I need her to work with me and meet me part way.

[xxoo]

I don't keep pursuing it once I know she's hurting. That's my point.

 

I do try to explore remedies and alternative techniques and accommodations. But I need her to work with me and meet me part way.

 

But what I'm hearing on this thread loud and clear is "I'm not living as roommates".

 

There is the weird assumption that women are looking for ways to get out of sex. Women who are healthy WANT sex. The goal should be to get your wife healthy so that she wants sex. The primary reaction should be concern--for your wife, not concern about sex disappearing forever.

 

How much of this is repeating a pattern from when the kids were born and her body didn't want sex for a while? How much of her saying "I'm fine" is because she remembers how you reacted then?

[why1234]

Hi Oldshirt. I was in the exact situation you were in. I spent about a year looking for the solution. Your mileage may vary, but here is what worked and didn't work for me.

 

What didn't help:

 

Communication - wife wanted to talk more, share more. She wanted me to open up. I opened up more than I had ever before. Didn't work at all. Sure it improved our relationship but did nothing to make her more interested in sex.

 

Being more considerate and doing more - I thought I could fix things by being nicer. Buying her presents. Taking her on romantic trips to Europe. Didn't work at all.

 

Backing off - Not bringing sex up. Giving her a sex holiday. Didn't work at all.

 

Basically, I tried everything people are suggesting here.

 

What helped:

 

The Red Pill. This is hard work, and it took about six months to get to the tipping point but once it kicked in, it transformed our marriage. We went from 2-3 times a year duty sex to great sex 3-4 times a week.

 

Per TRP, you can't talk your wife into desiring you. You have to put yourself into the physical and mental condition so that your wife will desire you - just because you're married doesn't mean she will desire you.

 

To implement TRP, what you need to do is get yourself into the best shape possible. Physically it means lifting weights, eating right, shedding fat. Mentally, it means you have to wean yourself from being a clingy wimp when it comes to your wife. Clingy wimp = letting your wife make all the decisions, letting your wife nag, doing far more for your wife than she does for you, etc. etc. If she doesn't want to have sex, you can't make her want to have sex. All you can do is improve yourself and become the kind of man that women (that includes your wife) would want to have sex with.

 

What kind of men do women want to have sex with? Basically, women like strong men, men who don't get pushed around, and most of all don't get pushed around by their wives. Men who look and act masculine (I don't mean macho, I mean confident). Men who don't give a s*** what the people around them think about them because they have inner peace.

 

What kind of men do women not want to have sex with? Men who whine. "Yes dear" men who dutifully do everything their wives want to do. Men who are fat, out of shape, and let themselves go (which it sounds like you're not). Men who think bringing home a paycheck, providing for the family, and being a good father, entitles them to sex even if they're unattractive or wimps. Men who get angry or butthurt just because they don't get sex. Most of all, men who beg for sex.

 

It also says that you can control only what you can control, namely yourself, and that you have to own your problems. Wife doesn't want to have sex? That's your problem, and you have to fix it, not her.

 

TRP is on reddit. I recommend the marriedredpill. It's very controversial, to give you fair warning. You may not like it, and many women think it's politically incorrect.

 

At first, I thought TRP was kind of crazy, but I had nothing to lose. And after I read Women's Infidelity, I knew that my wife may eventually have an affair with someone so I took the plunge.

 

All I can say is that I tried everything, and TRP is the only thing that worked for me. Your mileage may vary.

[why1234]

Just to add:

 

1) Very few women lose their libido. Women's Infidelity (you should read this, it will tell you that your wife is in Stage 1 of a slippery slope) and most high quality sources will tell you women love sex as much as men do. When the right person comes along, she will want to have sex with him. Passionate sex.

 

2) Don't blame your wife for the situation, because she can't make herself desire you (only you can do that). Let me ask you: are you attractive? Let me rephrase that: are you getting hit on all the time by women who are as attractive as your wife or more attractive than her? If yes, you should make sure she knows it. If no, then it's not surprising that your wife isn't attracted to you.

 

3) Are you the leader or the follower in your household? Do you make most of the important decision? Are you the strong one emotionally in the relationship? Do you have to get her permission if you want to buy a new car? New drill?

 

4) Do you put your wife on a pedestal? Does she know that? Women don't want to have sex with men they have to look down on. If you put her on a pedestal, she has no choice but to look down on you.

 

5) Yes there has to be consequences, but if you are saying you are going to punish her, then consider this: you can only punish her if she lets herself be punished. She's not going to let you punish her if she doesn't respect you. She's not going to respect you unless you're worthy of respect. So, what can you change about YOURSELF that will make you worthy of respect?

Edited October 2, 2015 by why1234

[autumnnight]

But what I'm hearing on this thread loud and clear is "I'm not living as roommates".

 

There is the weird assumption that women are looking for ways to get out of sex. Women who are healthy WANT sex. The goal should be to get your wife healthy so that she wants sex. The primary reaction should be concern--for your wife, not concern about sex disappearing forever.

 

How much of this is repeating a pattern from when the kids were born and her body didn't want sex for a while? How much of her saying "I'm fine" is because she remembers how you reacted then?

 

xxoo, you are one of the good ones. But I have to say, after reading lots of forums and knowing lots of women....it is sadly amazing how many women DO want to get out of sex. You'd be amazed at how they defend their refusal and band together to crucify men who want it. I even know of one woman who is proud of the fact that she withholds from her hubby for weeks at a time if they have an unpleasant conversation.

 

I don't think OS's wife is doing this, but I do think she is avoiding facing and solving the issue due to embarrassment, fear, whatever.

 

I do agree that chest beating and putting her in her place won't work, and oldshirt is wise not to get caught up in that crap.

[S2B]

Why aren't you considering marriage counseling?

[autumnnight]

Why aren't you considering marriage counseling?

 

I know he said they have been a couple of times.

 

I was married to someone who avoided discomfort and tended to be defensive. Marriage counseling with such a person can be......exhausting. They tend to remember what they want to remember and resist the rest. Not saying Mrs. Old is this way....but my ex and I broached the sex topic. Once the counselor mentioned that the man having the lower drive wasn't as uncommon as people think, that was all he needed to hear. Every time we talked after that he said, "The counselor said it wasn't uncommon. I'm not abnormal" as if that was the point.

 

Depending on how things went the other times, he may just not have the strength for it.

 

I do, however, think with the right counselor (probably male), it would be worth trying.

[oldshirt]

But what I'm hearing on this thread loud and clear is "I'm not living as roommates".

 

There is the weird assumption that women are looking for ways to get out of sex. Women who are healthy WANT sex. The goal should be to get your wife healthy so that she wants sex. The primary reaction should be concern--for your wife, not concern about sex disappearing forever.

 

How much of this is repeating a pattern from when the kids were born and her body didn't want sex for a while? How much of her saying "I'm fine" is because she remembers how you reacted then?

 

I get what you are saying and there is probably some truth to it.

 

I'm sure my posts here on an anonymous forum probably do come off as me sounding a bit like an ass or a whiner.

 

The truth is, after the kids were born I really didn't whine or pressure her or anything. I have no doubt she knew I wasn't thrilled but I did my best not to bitch or threaten or whine.

 

Where things blew up wasn't the birth of the kids, where things blew up was several years ago when she had PMDD so bad she was unbearable to live with and had to have surgery and put on meds to keep from killing all of us and then a few years ago when we were having serious relationship issues and ended up in another counselors office.

 

Yes she knows living as roommates is not an option. I can't help that she knows that. She knows the kind of man I am and I had to be upfront and honest with both her and the counselor that we either have a full service marriage or we have a cooperative coparenting relationship from two different households.

 

Maybe she would feel more safe and secure if she thought I would be by her side no matter what. But that is not the reality and I am not going to live a lie.

 

The reality is love and marriage are conditional.

 

There are things I have to do as well as things I cannot do if I want to stay married to her and have her love me. If I don't do those things, she walks. People seem OK when it's women that have conditions and stipulations.

 

But I have conditions and stipulations too and one of those is a marital sexlife. If she wants to be done with sex and live a life of celibacy, that's her choice and I won't begrudge her that. I just won't follow her down that path.

 

If she falls in love with and wants to be with someone else, that too will break my heart and I'll be sad, but again I won't try to keep her with me if her heart is somewhere else.

 

I talk tough here in the forums but I actually am a very reasonable and negotiable person. I do seek middle ground and solutions through diplomacy and working through problems. But at the end of the day, there is the bottom line and the bottom line is I can't do roommates.

[oldshirt]

Just to add:

 

1) Very few women lose their libido. Women's Infidelity (you should read this, it will tell you that your wife is in Stage 1 of a slippery slope) and most high quality sources will tell you women love sex as much as men do. When the right person comes along, she will want to have sex with him. Passionate sex.

 

2) Don't blame your wife for the situation, because she can't make herself desire you (only you can do that). Let me ask you: are you attractive? Let me rephrase that: are you getting hit on all the time by women who are as attractive as your wife or more attractive than her? If yes, you should make sure she knows it. If no, then it's not surprising that your wife isn't attracted to you.

 

3) Are you the leader or the follower in your household? Do you make most of the important decision? Are you the strong one emotionally in the relationship? Do you have to get her permission if you want to buy a new car? New drill?

 

4) Do you put your wife on a pedestal? Does she know that? Women don't want to have sex with men they have to look down on. If you put her on a pedestal, she has no choice but to look down on you.

 

5) Yes there has to be consequences, but if you are saying you are going to punish her, then consider this: you can only punish her if she lets herself be punished. She's not going to let you punish her if she doesn't respect you. She's not going to respect you unless you're worthy of respect. So, what can you change about YOURSELF that will make you worthy of respect?

 

Excellent posts Why.

 

The irony here is I have advised many men here on LS by saying exactly what you have said.

 

I signed on here at LS after getting through our last round of counseling a few years ago. Prior to that I had been on Married Man Sex Life and have read a number of books and articles by Athol Kay so I am familiar with red pill teachings.

 

I needed that red pill to get through the issues we were having at that time and thought I had come out the other side and survived. Then this past weekend pulled the rug out from under me and I trigger big time.

 

Why Athol Kay and his gang were so helpful is as opposed to the vast majority of the "alpha male" chest thumpers is MMSL also recognizes the importance of "good beta."

 

It was the beta that I needed to work on and it was turning up the beta while still maiming my core values and boundaries is what got us through it. If I had kept pounding my chest which is what most red pill proponents advise you to do, she would've been long gone and I would be the *******.

 

This is ultimately going to play out somewhat similar.

 

I am still devising a plan and that plan will include maintaining my core values and boundaries, but I know I am going to have to give a little too.

 

Where you are correct is she has to WANT to be with me. But Muscles and leadership can only go so far. Those work in the short term picking up chicks in bars. But for a 20 year marriage, she also has to like me and see a benifit of staying with me vs all the other guys out there that also have muscles and a strong personality.

 

Many of the alpha traits and behaviors come naturally to me (and some don't), the supportive and nurturing beta stuff, I have to work at.

[Marc878]

Uh I hate to tell you this but it doesn't seem to me that she has much respect for you.

 

You're probably to Mr. Nice plus you are afraid of her.

 

She no doubt senses your weakness and it has become very unattractive.

 

Better start turning that around.

 

Like NOW!!!!!!

[S2B]

You don't sound like an ass or a whiner to me.

 

You sound too weak and timid to take the action necessary to change this though.

 

Being afraid of what your wife may say or do is being too weak.

 

I don't think she respects you.

 

Do you think this is worth saving if it stays the same? It sounds like this has been an issue for years...

 

 

When is her way going to stop? When do your feelings and needs get top priority?

 

 

She has control. Her control means you don't get much sex. You either live with it or leave it.

[xxoo]

 

The reality is love and marriage are conditional.

 

There are things I have to do as well as things I cannot do if I want to stay married to her and have her love me. If I don't do those things, she walks. People seem OK when it's women that have conditions and stipulations.

 

But I have conditions and stipulations too and one of those is a marital sexlife. If she wants to be done with sex and live a life of celibacy, that's her choice and I won't begrudge her that. I just won't follow her down that path.

 

I don't see you considering the possibility (and in my experience as a woman: the reality) that a lapse in sex due to huge life change does not mean she wants a life of celibacy.

 

Can you love her through a life change that affects her sexuality for a season? What if she were sick with cancer? Does it matter if it's chemo or PMDD or menopause that's affecting her hormones if the impact to her sexuality is the same? Do you care about her experience and her struggle?

 

It really seems that is all about you for you, and maybe all about her for her at this point (although she was definitely putting your needs first for a long time). The solution is more thought and care for the other.

[ShatteredLady]

To be completely honest this thread terrifies me! I have cancer & I'm about to go through surgeries including hysterectomy. Is this my future? At the time in my life that I desperately need safety, security, love & understanding all I'm thinking is 'Is this the end then?'. On a really bad night, panic attacks, shaking with fear, thoughts of leaving my young children motherless I created a regrettable panic post here.

How does a woman get through this kind of nightmare without loosing everything? I completely understand the need for a passionate sex life. Should we just get divorced now? Why have "In sickness & health" in marriage vows when it can severely effect the "To have & to hold"?

Serious medical conditions are so overwhelming. Is it unreasonable to expect any person, regardless of history & promises, to be burdened with something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy?

 

How many marriages end in misery & divorce when menopause hits? Half of the human race goes through this. I need to learn more about how some marriages stay strong & secure....I dread ending on the trash heap. Loosing my ability to have more children, loosing my hair, loosing, loosing, loosing....looser

[why1234]

You're a well-informed man Oldshirt. I must say that I've read your post on other threads and I've been impressed.

 

Are you applying dread?

 

Do you have options? If your marriage collapsed, do you have outcome independence such that you could shrug and go on, albeit with pain?

 

Do you need your wife less than she needs you?

 

Let me rephrase. You need your wife less than she needs you. Do you accept that? At your age, and given your description of yourself and your wife, you know that you will likely upgrade and she will downgrade if you divorce.

 

If your know red pill, you know that you have to be willing to give her up if you want to keep her. Only if she realizes you would rather let her go than put up with her disrespect will she respect you. You surely know that.

[oldshirt]

To be completely honest this thread terrifies me! I have cancer & I'm about to go through surgeries including hysterectomy. Is this my future? At the time in my life that I desperately need safety, security, love & understanding all I'm thinking is 'Is this the end then?'. On a really bad night, panic attacks, shaking with fear, thoughts of leaving my young children motherless I created a regrettable panic post here.

How does a woman get through this kind of nightmare without loosing everything? I completely understand the need for a passionate sex life. Should we just get divorced now? Why have "In sickness & health" in marriage vows when it can severely effect the "To have & to hold"?

Serious medical conditions are so overwhelming. Is it unreasonable to expect any person, regardless of history & promises, to be burdened with something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy?

 

How many marriages end in misery & divorce when menopause hits? Half of the human race goes through this. I need to learn more about how some marriages stay strong & secure....I dread ending on the trash heap. Loosing my ability to have more children, loosing my hair, loosing, loosing, loosing....looser

 

 

 

Shattered Lady don't let my issues shake your faith in your husband, your marriage, your family or of men in general.

 

 

If your man knows that you love him, respect him, admire him and desire him, he will walk through hellfire, crawl through broken glass and twisted steel and will stand beside you through thick and thin.

 

 

It's when he has serious and legitimate doubt about those things that he will question whether he is barking up the wrong tree or not.

 

 

My issues are not whether my wife's vagina works or not. My issues are whether she loves, respects and desires me or not. If she doesn't, then I question whether there is any reason for me to be with her or not even if she is in perfect health and vitality and even if there is money in the bank and the happy, smiling kids are bringing home straight-A report cards.

 

 

If I were secure in her love/respect/desire for me, then no disease, no hardship and no tragedy or poverty would shake my devotion to her.

 

 

If I knew she loved, respected and desired me, then her jay-jay could fall clear off and it wouldn't shake my commitment to her. we'd work around it and keep on truck'n.

 

 

In my case she has looked me in the eye and told me if she knew how I'd be, she never would have married me. She has given me the ILYBNILWY. She has told me that she might as well be on her own for what little I have done for her.

 

 

Now all of those things were said in anger a few years ago when we were having relationship issues that landed us in the MC's office and she has since recanted and things have been a lot better, but you can see why my faith in her has been shaken.

 

 

So when some "life change" comes along, you can see why I may be a bit hesitant to assume that it is simply a shift in hormonal balance and I simply need to be more supportive and understanding.

 

 

We have come along ways since those dark days, but that doesn't mean that the "all-clear" siren has sounded or that I haven't wondered when the next shoe will fall.

[oldshirt]

I don't see you considering the possibility (and in my experience as a woman: the reality) that a lapse in sex due to huge life change does not mean she wants a life of celibacy.

 

Can you love her through a life change that affects her sexuality for a season? What if she were sick with cancer? Does it matter if it's chemo or PMDD or menopause that's affecting her hormones if the impact to her sexuality is the same? Do you care about her experience and her struggle?

 

It really seems that is all about you for you, and maybe all about her for her at this point (although she was definitely putting your needs first for a long time). The solution is more thought and care for the other.

 

 

 

See my response to Shattered Lady. I think it also covers a lot of the things you have brought up.

[oldshirt]

To Mark878 and S2B

 

 

I would agree that she has always had something of a lack of respect issue towards me. I wouldn't say that she outright mistreats me much or overtly disrespects me much. It's more a case of never really taking me seriously a lot of the time.

 

 

I do need to point out that her mother and her sister treat her father and BIL horribly. In fact I've been downright shocked at the way they treat their husbands at times.

 

 

And not only that, she had some female relatives that actually murdered their husbands. One was a great grandmother or a great aunt killed her husband in broad daylight on main street in front of witnesses one day back in '20s or '30s. And in the '50s another aunt or cousin shot and killed her husband at home, took the kids down to the river and drowned them one at a time and then shot herself.

 

 

So there's not a good track record of the women in that family treating their husbands well. (I didn't know about the murders until after we were married)

 

 

In regards to the comments about weakness and Mr Nice Guy etc. I know it seems like I'm being wishy washy and spineless at the moment, but it's part of an intentional plan at this moment.

 

 

I have never gotten physical with her and have never called her names or anything, but we have had some real knock down/drag outs in the past that have caused actual damage to our marriage and our relationship. Trust me, I have taken her to the mat on many occasions and while I have never gotten physical or called her names, there have been times that if someone had seen or heard me, they probably would've called the cops.

 

 

She has packed up the kids and fled before. If it happens again, she may not come back.

 

 

I have called her out on her $h!t many times and I will maintain solid boundaries on this issue. I just have to address it smarter, not harder.

 

 

We have both been pushed to the breaking point before. We won't survive another blow out like we've had in the past.

 

 

I'm not afraid of her. I'm afraid of me.

[oldshirt]

 

Are you applying dread?

 

No. And I won't. Dread would be the last thing to do if I wanted to save the relationship. I am sure she knows I am getting dissatisfied and despondent again and is probably watching for signs of me getting ready to bail and if she sees that, she'll be reaching for the ejection handle as well.

I will either do or not do depending on circumstances. I won't threaten or manipulate.

I am either going to be working on preserving the relationship if I see signs of life in it, or I will be pulling the plug if I see signs that death is imminent. I won't be utilizing dread to try to manipulate a response.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you have options? If your marriage collapsed, do you have outcome independence such that you could shrug and go on, albeit with pain?

 

 

Yes.

 

 

 

Do you need your wife less than she needs you?

 

 

I don't know the answer to that. She seems like she needs me pretty damn little. If I were to throw in the towel and file, she would be mad and bitter, but I honestly do not think she would shed a single tear of sadness.

I know I would survive a divorce and carry on OK. I think she would probably carry on OKer.

 

Let me rephrase. You need your wife less than she needs you. Do you accept that? At your age, and given your description of yourself and your wife, you know that you will likely upgrade and she will downgrade if you divorce.

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure that is a true statement. I have confidence I could get someone younger and with more vitality and probably more compatible in temperament to me.

But here's my dilemma, I have a great memory. I can remember the great times from years ago like they were yesterday. I know I could find others. And perhaps there could be days and nights happier than things are today. But I know I wouldn't find anyone that would be better than what we had in days gone by and that is what holds me back.

The present hasn't gotten bad enough to make me willing to jettison the past yet.

And as far as her downgrading, I wouldn't say she would downgrade at all. She is still doctor or lawyer material. Now it wouldn't be young and up and coming doctors and lawyers that would want to start a family or anything like that of course, but the older guys who have already given their first or even second wife the boot would take her in a New York minute. now that is assuming her mojo came back for them. if she treats them like she treats me now, forget it.

 

 

 

If your know red pill, you know that you have to be willing to give her up if you want to keep her. Only if she realizes you would rather let her go than put up with her disrespect will she respect you. You surely know that.

 

 

Yes I realize all of that. The catch is I don't have a solid reason to walk away yet. I have no evidence she's ever cheated. She treats me well the vast majority of the time. We do have sex pretty much weekly to week and 1/2.

What do I tell her daddy? that She grimaces when we have sex now and then and tells me to hurry up????

What do I tell the kids why they are going to get shuffled off between two houses? That their mother isn't the porn star she was when she was 25???

I was raised to stand up for myself and not to be pushed around or abused or manipulated. But I was also raised up to not walk away from marriage simply because I'm not haaaaaaaaaapy at the moment.

I need a reason. I need a documentable, observable, objective, factual reason to drop the bomb and I don't have it yet.

 

 

 

 

 

responses in bold above.

[S2B]

So when/what is bad enough to walk away?

 

You need to know - for your own self esteem.

 

 

You said she doesn't like who you've become? What's that about?

 

And how do YOU plan to earn her respect? You need a plan on that too - because women rarely get the hots to jump their man when they don't respect them. They will use them for what they need, but they won't happily bed them.

Edited October 3, 2015 by S2B

[Mr. Lucky]

In my case she has looked me in the eye and told me if she knew how I'd be, she never would have married me. She has given me the ILYBNILWY. She has told me that she might as well be on her own for what little I have done for her.

 

 

Now all of those things were said in anger a few years ago when we were having relationship issues that landed us in the MC's office and she has since recanted and things have been a lot better, but you can see why my faith in her has been shaken.

 

I think you're facing two separate issues that may not have that much overlap.

 

The adjustments we made in our marriage post menopause were a difficult 3-year process, lots of ups and downs. I went through the same cycle of desire and feeling short-changed by my wife's lack of same. Our sex life now is different then before in that we have longer sessions less often. In between, my wife gives me the occasional "extra attention" .

 

It doesn't seem the detachment your wife feels - and her willingness to express it so disrespectfully - has much to do with sex. Tough part is, to make any real process I'd venture you'll have to set the intimate issues aside and focus on dealing with her resentment and anger. Unless those things are addressed, not sure I'd want to sleep in the same bed with her anyway.

 

I'd be very careful to avoid simple solutions to complex challenges. You can demand your marital rights all day - and night - but I'd doubt you'd be satisfied with the response. You may need the patience of a saint and the wisdom of Job, a tall order for anyone. One day at a time...

 

Mr. Lucky

[why1234]

Oldshirt, I am a doctor, about same age as you. I would never take a 48 year old woman. I'm sorry, but I have to be blunt. I could get a very attractive 30 year old woman without a batting an eye were I single. In a Manhattan minute.

 

Here is a solid reason. If you don't earn her respect, then neither she nor you will be happy. If you care about her happiness, you would bring down the hammer and make her respect you. You would give her the ultimatum. Take a walk or shape up.

 

If you don't do that, no matter how hot of a 48 year old she is, she is going to end up a bitter woman with great regrets. I promise you.You will NOT be doing her any favors allowing her to leave you thinking she's going to do better. She may be able to bang a decent 30 year old but there is no way she's going to find a LTR with a 30 year old. She will end up regretting that she ever left you. MARK MY WORDS.

 

If you care about her, you need to stand up, be strong, and make her respect you. Tell her you will walk if she doesn't behave. And if she doesn't, walk.

Edited October 3, 2015 by why1234

[Mr. Lucky]

If you care about her, you need to stand up, be strong, and make her respect you. Tell her you will walk if she doesn't behave. And if she doesn't, walk.

 

Exactly the type of over-simplified, "my way or the highway" solution to avoid...

 

Mr. Lucky

[why1234]

Exactly the type of over-simplified, "my way or the highway" solution to avoid...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Mr. Lucky, I've read your comments on other threads, and I think they're great.

 

In this case, I'd be interested in understanding what experience you have as to why you think this is oversimplified. Have you tried this and seen it fail? I have tried this approach and it has been very successful for me in a situation that is almost identical to Oldshirt's situation.

 

The point is that Oldshirt's wife doesn't respect him. The only way to rebuild that respect is to be strong.

[why1234]

Oldshirt, just consider this. If you don't bring the hammer down, it's almost a certainty she will leave you and your kids will be shuttled between two houses. If you bring the hammer down, she may come to her senses and you may enjoy the porn star sex and save your marriage. Are you strong enough to take that risk?

 

We all get what we deserve. That's what I believe.

[Mr. Lucky]

In this case, I'd be interested in understanding what experience you have as to why you think this is oversimplified. Have you tried this and seen it fail? I have tried this approach and it has been very successful for me in a situation that is almost identical to Oldshirt's situation.

 

You can't command someone who feels desire for no one to desire you. And the difficult dynamic this creates causes resentment and frustration that manifest themselves in different ways.

 

I'm guessing oldshirt has considerable marital equity on the table he'd like to preserve and brute force isn't the way to do it. As always, YMMV...

 

Mr. Lucky