things have been going downhill, but last night about put me over

[sandylee1]

I gotta get off forums....

 

How many people think going in like some "Me boss of woman who need behave" caveman is going to help this marriage?

 

I get it. Lots of men on LS have been betrayed. But just because you're a hammer doesn't mean everything is a nail.

 

I agree with you. This old fashioned method will just put fuel to the fire. I'm speaking from a woman's perspective, which I think would benefit Oldshirt. I love it when my husband does nice things me and treats me special, shows his love and appreciation - because I feel taken for granted at times (as does he I'm sure ), but at least having been a loving an affectionate husband, who pays attention to her your wife and tries to rekindle the romance, you can absolutely say you did everything if she decides she is no longer interested.

 

I'm not saying reward bad behaviour ......I'm thinking of going forward and sometimes one person needs to lead the way in showing setting an example for the kind of marriage you want.

 

There's a book called 'the surrendered wife' that helped me a lot. A friend recommended it. Just swapping the roles around might give

you an insight.

 

It's not about begging your wife to desire you, but when you demonstrate certain behaviours the desire will show. Desire doesn't always mean sex either.

[oldshirt]

Interesting debate between Mr Lucky and Why1234.

 

 

It's making my head spin. The way I see it, you are both right. I do need to earn her respect before anything else can fall into place. But I can't use hammers to force that into place. I can't "Make her behave."

 

 

Not having porn feelings for me is not misbehavior. You can't punish someone's feelings. Behaviors, words and actions can have consequences, feelings can't.

 

 

I can't make her love or respect me. I can become a better man and hope that she does. And I can become a better man to the point that even if she doesn't love or respect me, someone else will.

 

 

The ultimate goal here is about me. I can't change her. I can only change myself. That may influence her into making positive changes in herself, but it may not. At that point I will have a choice.

[Mr. Lucky]

 

 

I can't make her love or respect me. I can become a better man and hope that she does. And I can become a better man to the point that even if she doesn't love or respect me, someone else will.

 

 

The ultimate goal here is about me. I can't change her. I can only change myself. That may influence her into making positive changes in herself, but it may not. At that point I will have a choice.

 

Oldshirt, is anything about this a lesson in appreciating the life you already have?

 

I know I'm at times guilty of so focusing on pushing the rock uphill, both financially and maritally, that I fail to appreciate the progress already made. This can be frustrating for a spouse not on the same page, especially if they feel they're fighting battles on multiple fronts.

 

The catch 22 for you is that your wife might be better equipped to deal with the sexual issues if she thought other areas of the marriage were unchallenged, even if some of those challenges were of her own making.

 

Too bad MC is a no go. You have lots to talk about...

 

Mr. Lucky

[xxoo]

Interesting debate between Mr Lucky and Why1234.

 

 

It's making my head spin. The way I see it, you are both right. I do need to earn her respect before anything else can fall into place. But I can't use hammers to force that into place. I can't "Make her behave."

 

 

Not having porn feelings for me is not misbehavior. You can't punish someone's feelings. Behaviors, words and actions can have consequences, feelings can't.

 

 

I can't make her love or respect me. I can become a better man and hope that she does. And I can become a better man to the point that even if she doesn't love or respect me, someone else will.

 

 

The ultimate goal here is about me. I can't change her. I can only change myself. That may influence her into making positive changes in herself, but it may not. At that point I will have a choice.

 

This is good.

 

There is obviously lot of history and complexity to the marriage issues you two are facing right now. Try to keep that in mind, and resist the urge to simplify things to her being wrong. I don't think the right/wrong approach is ever helpful in working out marriage problems. Sometimes it's necessary, but then it usually ends in a necessary divorce.

 

No one "wins" a battle in marriage. Winning means putting down the weapons and armor and helping each other up. If one goes down, both go down.

 

Your reactions are understandable considering the history. Her reactions are understandable considering the history. But marriages aren't strengthened through reacting. They are strengthened through resisting reacting, and responding from a place of strength and love. And of course, it takes two.

 

I wish you the best. I do think there is a lot of love between you two, and a lot to lose if you keep moving away from each other.

[oldshirt]

.

 

The catch 22 for you is that your wife might be better equipped to deal with the sexual issues if she thought other areas of the marriage were unchallenged, even if some of those challenges were of her own making.

 

Too bad MC is a no go. You have lots to talk about...

 

 

I think you may have some wisdom in what you are saying above, but it is going over my head at the moment.

 

 

Could you dumb it down a little bit and explain in a little more detail?

[oldshirt]

....in regards to MC.

 

 

We have gone to MC twice with two different counselors a couple years apart for somewhat different, yet somewhat similar issues.

 

 

It did help.

 

 

However it is going to have to be something that she wants and that she brings up and asks for. If she wants the marriage intact and is willing to go to MC and asks that we try MC again, I will do it and will go in good faith.

 

 

However I am not going to be the one to ask for it. My objectives are simple and I am direct in addressing what I see are the issues and I am willing to address whatever issues she brings to the table.

 

 

She is the one that has the terrible time addressing issues and she is the one that hates being subjected to even the slightest criticism. MC was a miserable and horrific process for her and left her quite scarred and scorned.

 

 

If the marriage means enough to her that she is willing to go through that again to save it, I will cooperate and support it.

 

 

However if I am the one that brings it up, she will just say, "oh here we go again. we already did that and here you are bellyaching about it again."

 

 

So no, phck that. if one of us is heading out the door and she doesn't care enough to try professional help to keep us together, I'm not going to cough up the time, money and energy to try lead that horse to water.

 

 

If she brings it up and convinces me that she'll put in a sincere effort, then I will take that as her being serious about trying to save the marriage and I will do my due diligence as well.

 

 

The MC ball will be in her court if it ever gets to that point. I'm not bringing it up again or going there again unless it is by her hand.

 

 

If I walk, I don't think she'll try to stop me or try to fix anything.

 

 

If she walks, I'll take that as her final answer and go on about my own business.

[SummerDreams]

The issue is she has no interest of her own and is just appeasing me - or in her words, "taking one for the team."

 

It is currently duty sex and starfish sex.

 

Every now and then she seems somewhat engaged and connected. Most of the time it's her doing me a favor. And there are times she's basically just letting me use her body to masturbate with.

 

 

Can I ask you something? If we accept, for the sake of conversation, that your wife is not interested in sex anymore for whatever reasons and she is willing to spend the rest of her life with the least sex she can have, doing it only as a favor to you, how would you feel about it? If she swears to you that the issue is not that she doesn't love you or she wants other men or anhything else, rather than she just stopped caring about sex, would you accept it or divorce? You said already you are not OK with living as roomates so I'm gonna assume you won't accept it.

 

But what shook me up this weekend is she appeared horny and wanting to play -

 

- Just not with me.

 

Are you sure whatt she did was due to "horniness"? Lets not forget it was her birthday. All women feel sad and insecure on their birthdays. She has you and she knows you are there. But maybe she wants some reassurance that she id still desired by other men. Sometimes women can play with men to get them turned on only to get the validation and not having sex in their minds at all (I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing). Have you considered this?

 

I can live with someone that loves me and wants to be with me but just has declining libido due to aging and menopause.

 

I can't live with someone who doesn't desire me and wants other men instead.

 

She just doesn't want me sexually anymore.

 

At this point I don't know if it's me, if it's menopause, or is she is simply wanting someone else.

 

I'm not sure why in your mind not wanting you equals wanting someone else. Have you considered her not wanting sex at all anymore? The reasons may vary but the result is the same; she is done with sex. Still she makes herself do it for you every week or week and a half you said. This shows me she does care for you and your needs. But I don't understand why not desiring you = desiring someone else. If she did desire someone else, I'm sure by now she'd have created an affair and you would know. But you have no signs of this so I just come to the conclusion that sex has become too painful for her + she loses her libido due to menopause + she may be a little bored of her husband of many years --> she just quits sex and get it over with without getting frustrated with these issues or having to deal with them, which can be hard and upsetting.

[SummerDreams]

Another thing I wanted to comment on is what she uses to tell you "It's all about sex for you". I don't want to become suspicious or rude but I can't stop wondering why she says that. She's your wife, she knows you very well, she must have a reason to assume this. Do you maybe put much pressure on her without even realizing it? Sometimes what we don't say become more obvious than what we don't. It may be a grin, a smile, a sigh, the body language says a lot and we may not realize it. She knows you so she knows when you are frustrated, upset, angry etc, even if you try to hide it.

[why1234]

I agree with you. This old fashioned method will just put fuel to the fire. I'm speaking from a woman's perspective, which I think would benefit Oldshirt. I love it when my husband does nice things me and treats me special, shows his love and appreciation

 

What a person (man or woman) says (and believes) she wants and what she actually wants are not always the same.

 

Women always say they want affection, tenderness, stability and communication. But when a hot muscular stucco contractor bad boy comes around, they hop in bed with him. Then they say "I don't understand why I did that." Go to the infidelity forum. How many of those women say before the affair, "I want to have an affair, wreck my marriage, and put my kids into therapy"?

 

The heart wants what the heart wants. You can say what you want is appreciation but how you act may show that you want leadership from your man. (I don't know you so perhaps not, but this is true for many or most women.)

 

There's a book called 'the surrendered wife' that helped me a lot. A friend recommended it. Just swapping the roles around might give

you an insight.

 

Hm, this is odd. I thought this book was very Red Pill.

 

It's not about begging your wife to desire you, but when you demonstrate certain behaviours the desire will show. Desire doesn't always mean sex either.

 

And those behaviors = showing strength.

[why1234]

 

> Are you applying dread?

 

No. And I won't. Dread would be the last thing to do if I wanted to save the relationship. I am sure she knows I am getting dissatisfied and despondent again and is probably watching for signs of me getting ready to bail and if she sees that, she'll be reaching for the ejection handle as well.

 

I will either do or not do depending on circumstances. I won't threaten or manipulate.

 

Well, dread can backfire (and so can ultimatums) if your attractiveness is below your wife's so this may be the right decision.

 

But your wife is dreading you my friend.

 

I have confidence I could get someone younger and with more vitality and probably more compatible in temperament to me.

 

But here's my dilemma, I have a great memory. I can remember the great times from years ago like they were yesterday. I know I could find others. And perhaps there could be days and nights happier than things are today. But I know I wouldn't find anyone that would be better than what we had in days gone by and that is what holds me back.

 

And as far as her downgrading, I wouldn't say she would downgrade at all. She is still doctor or lawyer material.

 

Your wife doesn't seem to think those memories are special. Are they still special to you if she's forgotten them?

 

We can go around and around on who would upgrade/downgrade. At some point you were close enough in attractiveness that you got married to each other. Given that, it's hard for me to understand why your attractiveness would not be substantially higher at your age, especially since you work out... No wait, I do, I thought the same as you about my wife a year ago. But I was wrong.

 

What you might want to do, if this is not prohibited by OKCupid, is to make a profile with a photo resembling you and one with a photo resembling your wife, with all the same background info. See how many responses a 48 year old divorcee with kids get, vs you.

[why1234]

You can't command someone who feels desire for no one to desire you. And the difficult dynamic this creates causes resentment and frustration that manifest themselves in different ways.

 

I'm guessing oldshirt has considerable marital equity on the table he'd like to preserve and brute force isn't the way to do it. As always, YMMV...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Ah, I see. There is a misunderstanding. I don't mean he needs to force her to do something. What I mean is that he has to become the kind of man who will not tolerate disrespect. The kind of man who will leave rather than do so. Both for his own self-respect as well as for his wife's.

 

It may be that (consciously or subconsciously) that his wife is testing him. She's wondering, "How much of a pushover is my husband? How emasculated is he? How much disrespect will he tolerate?"

 

She may be thinking she deserves someone who has more backbone.

 

Oldshirt, do you think she deserves someone who has more backbone, or do you think she deserves a pushover?

[why1234]

 

It's making my head spin. The way I see it, you are both right. I do need to earn her respect before anything else can fall into place. But I can't use hammers to force that into place. I can't "Make her behave."

 

Not having porn feelings for me is not misbehavior. You can't punish someone's feelings. Behaviors, words and actions can have consequences, feelings can't.

 

I can't make her love or respect me. I can become a better man and hope that she does. And I can become a better man to the point that even if she doesn't love or respect me, someone else will.

 

The ultimate goal here is about me. I can't change her. I can only change myself. That may influence her into making positive changes in herself, but it may not. At that point I will have a choice.

 

Bravo. If you take this approach, you will succeed.

 

One part of your original post I didn't recognize before as being really important: when you insisted that your wife leave the party, she did so. This is a very good sign. There is still a bit of respect left. I think my wife a year ago might have just laughed at me in the same situation. So you're not as far gone as I was.

 

If you don't want to go full TRP, and I understand - it's is not easy - then you might try what Fing_farted_on_me on Reddit did. I will post his story below, since I am not sure if LoveShack allows us to post links.

[oldshirt]

responses in bold below.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If we accept, for the sake of conversation, that your wife is not interested in sex anymore for whatever reasons and she is willing to spend the rest of her life with the least sex she can have, doing it only as a favor to you, how would you feel about it? If she swears to you that the issue is not that she doesn't love you or she wants other men or anhything else, rather than she just stopped caring about sex, would you accept it or divorce?

 

 

I want to experience love and passion and intimacy again. I'm not ready to sip lemonade on the porch yet. I am still healthy and virile and in reasonable shape for a man my age. I don't know how much longer any of those things will be the case. I wouldn't condemn her for her reality. But at this point in my life I don't think I can live in the same roof with a woman that doesn't want me.

Let me put in this way. If I am living with a woman that is beautiful and that I love and that I still desire and can remember great times of joy and passion with, but she doesn't want me. Then I feel rejection and heartbreak and despair every single day.

If I move on and am on my own, there are certainly no guarentees that I will find love again. But I can wake up every day thinking that today may be the day. It would at least be a possibility and I could put forth good faith effort and try.

Where as as long as I stay and accept those conditions, I am rejected and feel heartbreak every single day with no possibility for love and intimacy again.

 

 

 

Are you sure whatt she did was due to "horniness"? Lets not forget it was her birthday. All women feel sad and insecure on their birthdays. She has you and she knows you are there. But maybe she wants some reassurance that she id still desired by other men. Sometimes women can play with men to get them turned on only to get the validation and not having sex in their minds at all (I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing). Have you considered this?

 

Yes and I am even very willing to believe that this may have been a big part of it. As I have said before, I really am not upset about her dancing and socializing with other men. I am hurt that she wanted to do that with them and nothing with me.

 

 

I'm not sure why in your mind not wanting you equals wanting someone else.

 

 

It kinda didn't until I saw her dancing and talking smack with other men.

That was a trigger that slammed home she's not into me sexually any more.

 

 

 

 

Have you considered her not wanting sex at all anymore?

The reasons may vary but the result is the same; she is done with sex.

 

 

Of course I considered it. she's basically told me so.

It's like you have two doors infront of you and you have to pick one and go into that room. One room is full of man-eating snakes and the other is full of man-eating spiders. Which do you pick?

If she is just done with me but doesn't want anyone else, then my decision is do I accept a sexless marriage and sip lemonade on porch and accept that as my fate in life or do I move on and hope to find love again and be the one responsible for my kids losing their home and being despised by my inlaws?

But if she wants someone else, then I'm basically making both of us miserable if I try to get her to stay but at least I am not the bad guy.

Which door? Spiders or snakes?

 

 

Still she makes herself do it for you every week or week and a half you said. This shows me she does care for you and your needs.

 

 

Yes she is trying and I do credit her for that.

It does feel nice physically to feel her up against me. But it breaks my heart when I see her grimacing and scratching her head and looking at the clock and having her tell me to "hurry up."

Yes, I want to have sex but 99% of that is being wanted and being able to please and pleasure someone else. I want her to want me.

It's actually getting to the point where sex with her is no longer bonding and connecting but is actually making me feel dirty and like a creeper. It often times makes me feel less close, less bonded and less connected.

at the moment, I keep coming back because I keep hoping the next time will be different and the next time I'll hit the right combination and it will be good and it will make us feel closer again.

But eventually something will snap and I will be the one that is done with it and I will be the one sleeping in the guest room and be the one making excuses.

 

 

 

 

But I don't understand why not desiring you = desiring someone else. If she did desire someone else, I'm sure by now she'd have created an affair and you would know.

 

 

Part of that is my mind can't comprehend someone being asexual and not desiring something or someone. In my mind if it's not me she's desiring, then it must be someone else.

I know that may not be accurate, but it's how my mind works. When I saw her having fun dancing and frolicking with other men, it triggered that for me.

 

 

 

 

But you have no signs of this so I just come to the conclusion that sex has become too painful for her + she loses her libido due to menopause + she may be a little bored of her husband of many years --> she just quits sex and get it over with without getting frustrated with these issues or having to deal with them, which can be hard and upsetting

 

 

Spiders or snakes?

 

 

 

 

.

[autumnnight]

Ah, I see. There is a misunderstanding. I don't mean he needs to force her to do something. What I mean is that he has to become the kind of man who will not tolerate disrespect. The kind of man who will leave rather than do so. Both for his own self-respect as well as for his wife's.

 

It may be that (consciously or subconsciously) that his wife is testing him. She's wondering, "How much of a pushover is my husband? How emasculated is he? How much disrespect will he tolerate?"

 

She may be thinking she deserves someone who has more backbone.

 

Oldshirt, do you think she deserves someone who has more backbone, or do you think she deserves a pushover?

 

 

I am not sure how to say this circumscpectly in light of scrutiny, but I feel it is very important and relevant.

 

The above view, aliong with you other posts, is a view I have heard espoused by a very particular set of men. I am not saying good or bad men, just men with a very particular personality bent.

 

Men like this tend to marry a certain kind of woman. The kind of woman with whom heavy handedness, authority, "this IS how it is," etc. will work.

 

Because of old shirt's strong but kind and open type of personality (in my mind that very rare but perfect combination). I am thinking he probably did not marry that sort of woman. I know I, while very submissive by nature, am not that kind of woman. While please my partner (not just sexually) and making sure he knows I respect him is important to me....if he every came to me with the picture of man you are suggesting os present....my spine would straighten, my heart would slam shut, and I would respect him LESS for being a bully.

 

In other words, I do not think that oldshirt wants a wife who is afraid of him or subservient to him. I think that certain professions lend themselves to the type of personality that wants to "tell her how it's gonna be." But in this case, I believe with everything in me it will backfire.

 

I am a 48 year old ladylike, traditional woman with a high sex drive. I'm even one of those women who believes in that Ephesian 5 submission thing. But "bringing down a hammer" on me would result in me grabbing the frying pan and giving it back I know my own mind, and believe it or not, most other women do as well.

 

I hope as expressed that appropriately, as I believe it to be critical.

[oldshirt]

Another thing I wanted to comment on is what she uses to tell you "It's all about sex for you". I don't want to become suspicious or rude but I can't stop wondering why she says that. She's your wife, she knows you very well, she must have a reason to assume this. Do you maybe put much pressure on her without even realizing it? Sometimes what we don't say become more obvious than what we don't. It may be a grin, a smile, a sigh, the body language says a lot and we may not realize it. She knows you so she knows when you are frustrated, upset, angry etc, even if you try to hide it.

 

 

 

She knows I am a passionate man. She knows a lot of our original connection was sexual. She knows I am a man that won't be content to sit on the porch sipping lemonade.

 

 

She's seen me have sex with anywhere from 2 to 5 women in a night many times with her own eyes in the past.

 

 

I try not to pressure her and I try to be supportive. But I am sure on a very basic instinctual level, she knows a lion is not a vegetarian and will not be able to subsist on leaves and grasses very long.

 

 

That's why I told Why1234 that I won't use dread. She already knows the score and knows the stakes.

[autumnnight]

I see now that reddit has become involved. That explains a lot to me.

 

Oldshirt, I wish you the best.

[oldshirt]

responses in bold below.

 

 

Well, dread can backfire (and so can ultimatums) if your attractiveness is below your wife's so this may be the right decision.

I honestly don't know what my market value is anymore. All I know is I was lucky to get her back when we started dating 20 years ago. I was an average joe. She was an actual state-level competitor in our state's Miss America contest. I hit one out of the ballpark with the bases loaded and then bought a winning lottery ticket on the way home from the ballpark on getting her.

She's been a good wife and mother over the years. The last several years have been rough but it has been a good ride. I had a great life.

I have no doubt I could get a 40 year old with a couple kids that isn't obese or gross and I would be happy with that.

But I don't know if I could attract a 40 year old that was anything like she was at 40 if that makes any sense.

 

But your wife is dreading you my friend.

 

I don't think she's dreading me. I think she is happy with the status quo other than my restlessness and dissatisfaction and would be perfectly happy if I were to lose my libido too.

She would be as happy as a hog in slop if I were to become a menopausal woman.

 

 

Your wife doesn't seem to think those memories are special.

 

 

I don't think that is true. She does say she misses feeling the way she used to and misses the good times we used to have. I think she is sincere when she says that.

 

 

 

 

Are they still special to you if she's forgotten them?

 

 

Definitely. Those are treasured memories and times that I will always treasure regardless of whatever ultimately happens with us.

 

We can go around and around on who would upgrade/downgrade. At some point you were close enough in attractiveness that you got married to each other. Given that, it's hard for me to understand why your attractiveness would not be substantially higher at your age, especially since you work out... No wait, I do, I thought the same as you about my wife a year ago. But I was wrong.

 

 

 

 

I admit to still having wife goggles on. I will concede that to you.

 

What you might want to do, if this is not prohibited by OKCupid, is to make a profile with a photo resembling you and one with a photo resembling your wife, with all the same background info. See how many responses a 48 year old divorcee with kids get, vs you.

 

 

realistically, I will probably do better with finding people in the 40 year old range for a LTR.

however She would blow me out of the water with opportunities for hook ups.

 

 

yes her chances of a committed, healthy LTR with a single-never married-no kids, good looking, professional man in his 30s is probably virtually nil. Where as I MIGHT be able to pull off a non-obese, not-disfigured, single, career woman that doesn't want kids, in her upper 30s if I got real lucky again.

But she would still have a million offers and opportunities for dates and hook ups.

 

 

[oldshirt]

I see now that reddit has become involved. That explains a lot to me.

 

Oldshirt, I wish you the best.

 

 

 

I haven't ever been on reddit, but I am familiar with some of the 'red pill' concepts Why1234 speaks of.

[SummerDreams]

Lets sum things up. The possible reasons she doesn't want sex anymore are:

1. She doesn't care about sex anymore, she is done with it and it has nothing to do with you.

2. She doesn't desire you anymore but she wants to remain faithful.

3. She doesn't desire you anymore but she would want another guy.

 

The first 2 are workable if she has the will to work on them. For the first she could search the reasons about her lack of desire for sex and try to solve it. Fir the second, she could agree that you work on becoming close again and working on your relationship.

 

What you can do: Ask her which one it is. Maybe it's none of them. According to what she replies, have a plan ready. Listen to her without showing any emotions. Show you support her and respect her feelings.

 

We can't decide for you whether tgis situation is ok or not. For you it seems the lack of sexual intimacy is a deal breaker. Act accordingly.

[oldshirt]

I am not sure how to say this circumscpectly in light of scrutiny, but I feel it is very important and relevant.

 

The above view, aliong with you other posts, is a view I have heard espoused by a very particular set of men. I am not saying good or bad men, just men with a very particular personality bent.

 

Men like this tend to marry a certain kind of woman. The kind of woman with whom heavy handedness, authority, "this IS how it is," etc. will work.

 

Because of old shirt's strong but kind and open type of personality (in my mind that very rare but perfect combination). I am thinking he probably did not marry that sort of woman. I know I, while very submissive by nature, am not that kind of woman. While please my partner (not just sexually) and making sure he knows I respect him is important to me....if he every came to me with the picture of man you are suggesting os present....my spine would straighten, my heart would slam shut, and I would respect him LESS for being a bully.

 

In other words, I do not think that oldshirt wants a wife who is afraid of him or subservient to him. I think that certain professions lend themselves to the type of personality that wants to "tell her how it's gonna be." But in this case, I believe with everything in me it will backfire.

 

I am a 48 year old ladylike, traditional woman with a high sex drive. I'm even one of those women who believes in that Ephesian 5 submission thing. But "bringing down a hammer" on me would result in me grabbing the frying pan and giving it back I know my own mind, and believe it or not, most other women do as well.

 

I hope as expressed that appropriately, as I believe it to be critical.

 

 

 

Actually Autumn, I was going to reply to Why1234 and other people's assertion that I am weak and need to grow a spine, but you have said it better than I could have so I will quote your statements for emphasis.

 

 

The truth is my wife is happy to be subservient and allow me to take the lead on significant matters. However she isn't weak or dumb or manipulatable (if that is a word).

 

 

She will follow my lead when she knows that what I am working towards is collaborative effort for the betterment of us as a couple or all of us as a family unit. If she detects that I am trying to manipulate her or coerce her for my own benefit at her expense, she will kill me in my sleep.

 

 

I need her to be strong and smart. She needs me to be strong and smart.

 

 

We have been through serious issues in the past and have come out the other side. We accomplished that through collaboration and defining of boundaries. Not coercion. Not manipulation and certainly not through Pick Up Artist parlor tricks like dread and chest thumping and other "alpha male" mind tricks.

 

 

I understand why Why1234 and others are getting the impression I am being passive and sitting on my hands. I also understand why many may think that I am "afraid" to confront my wife with some of these issues.

 

 

I am strategizing. I am fact finding. I am weighing options. I am testing theories. I am formulating a game plan on moving forward.

 

 

As I said the other night, we have had serious fights that have caused damage to our marriage. I am not going to chest-beat and employ parlor tricks to score a piece of tail that is going to cause more damage to our home and family in the long run.

 

 

I have the ability to fight and prevail. Therefor diplomacy is an actual option and is not a plead for mercy.

 

 

I will employ diplomacy first to the best of my ability.

 

 

If diplomacy fails, I will defend myself and my well being to the best of my ability.

 

 

If I have to fight, I need to fight smarter than in the past. not harder.

 

 

In the past when dealing with these and similar issues, things improved and progress was made when I was collaborative and supportive while still defining and defending my boundaries and stating my limits and my objectives.

 

 

I am not weak.

 

 

I am not spineless.

 

 

I am not afraid of conflict.

 

 

My goal is not to rush into battle to win the fight. My goal is to ultimately win the peace. To do that I need time, information and contemplation.

 

 

There will come a time for action. I will share that when that time comes.

 

 

Patience Grasshopper.

[xxoo]

She knows I am a passionate man. She knows a lot of our original connection was sexual. She knows I am a man that won't be content to sit on the porch sipping lemonade.

 

 

She's seen me have sex with anywhere from 2 to 5 women in a night many times with her own eyes in the past.

 

 

I try not to pressure her and I try to be supportive. But I am sure on a very basic instinctual level, she knows a lion is not a vegetarian and will not be able to subsist on leaves and grasses very long.

 

 

That's why I told Why1234 that I won't use dread. She already knows the score and knows the stakes.

 

This Dread stuff (which I googled) is SO unattractive. It reeks of insecurity.

 

On a basic, instinctual level, I know my husband is a lion and sex is extremely important to him. He's very, very masculine and has a high libido. That's why, when I've run into problems with my drive, I've tried to push through and pretty much be available to him anyway. That's why, when I've had trouble with my drive, it has really been him that needed to reassure me that he's strong enough to go without. And that's exactly how I saw it: strong. I know his lust and desire didn't disappear. I didn't even pretend it did. I felt very protected, and like I was married to an amazingly loyal LION. It hits all my lust spots. And when my health was sorted out, RAWR!

[oldshirt]

to that I also need to add that everyone's input has been valuable and has helped me organize my thoughts and given me insight and helped shine some light into my blindspots.

 

 

Everyone has been 'right' about some things and everyone has given me a piece of the puzzle.

[hudson701]

Wow that reddit story above... Took my breath away. Heartbreaking a woman would put her husband through such hell and for him to show such strength and fortitude to carry on and power through, well, good for you, sir.

[autumnnight]

Oldshirt, I just read a very long post and had myself a good cry.

 

I am immensely triggered by your thread, not because i am a middle aged wife who doesn't like sex...but because I am a middle aged woman who just wanted my husband to touch me, and I got it turned around on me as if I was dirt.

 

I know what it is like to be emotionally manipulated, frozen out, and made to crumble into the floor in tears. I know what it is to have someone declare to me "how it was going to be" and not give a damn about my feelings, completely ignoring the YEARS I spent trying to be good enough. I know what it is like to be vulnerable and have it spat back at you in a display of "manhood."

 

It nearly destroyed me, but as a silver lining, it gave me the fortitude to leave a man who did not know how to love.

 

Please....please....you are such a good man....do not emotionally bully, manipulate, punish, and corner your wife into some pitiful heap at your feet just to make a point.

 

You are better than that. You know how to love.

[xxoo]

I know what it is like to be vulnerable and have it spat back at you in a display of "manhood.".

 

Hugs, Autumn. I found that post appalling, too.

 

That's not manhood. A man protects and cares for his own. He is fierce with others when needed, but tender with his own. And that's wildly sexy.