things have been going downhill, but last night about put me over

[Mr. Lucky]

The catch 22 for you is that your wife might be better equipped to deal with the sexual issues if she thought other areas of the marriage were unchallenged, even if some of those challenges were of her own making.

 

Too bad MC is a no go. You have lots to talk about...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I think you may have some wisdom in what you are saying above, but it is going over my head at the moment.

 

My point is simply you have a lot on your marital plate and it's unrealistic to think a Chinese menu approach where you pick one issue each from A, B and C is going to work. If the sexual issue is the most important one, you may have to be willing to take a step back in terms of dealing with other things. Very few people respond well to a feeling of being under all-out assault.

 

The one dealbreaker in this whole thing for me might be a willingness to go back to MC. Given the way you describe your wife's defensive nature, not sure things can improve without help.

 

Do you have a clear sense of what your wife wants to have happen?

 

Mr. Lucky

[underpants]

To be completely honest this thread terrifies me! I have cancer & I'm about to go through surgeries including hysterectomy. Is this my future? At the time in my life that I desperately need safety, security, love & understanding all I'm thinking is 'Is this the end then?'. On a really bad night, panic attacks, shaking with fear, thoughts of leaving my young children motherless I created a regrettable panic post here.

How does a woman get through this kind of nightmare without loosing everything? I completely understand the need for a passionate sex life. Should we just get divorced now? Why have "In sickness & health" in marriage vows when it can severely effect the "To have & to hold"?

Serious medical conditions are so overwhelming. Is it unreasonable to expect any person, regardless of history & promises, to be burdened with something I wouldn't wish on my worst enemy?

 

How many marriages end in misery & divorce when menopause hits? Half of the human race goes through this. I need to learn more about how some marriages stay strong & secure....I dread ending on the trash heap. Loosing my ability to have more children, loosing my hair, loosing, loosing, loosing....looser

 

Why would you put yourself on a 'trash heap'. Your marriage is killing you. This is the hill you have chosen to die on. Okay.

 

Let go? You won't though, like so many, you will stay and passively complain, as will Old shirt.

 

Wanting but scared of true freedom I guess?

[oldshirt]

 

 

. I know what it is like to be vulnerable and have it spat back at you in a display of "manhood."

 

Please....please....you are such a good man....do not emotionally bully, manipulate, punish, and corner your wife into some pitiful heap at your feet just to make a point.

 

.

 

Don't let the posts about, "grow some balls," and "drop the hammer down" and "make her respect you" etc etc bother you. Some of that is just how guys talk to each other and the verbiage that we use amongst ourselves.

 

 

the base message being relayed is " stand up for your interests and don't be BS'd or pushed around" and that is 100% valid advice.

 

 

"neither pushed around nor push-arounder be" is the common ground I am going to strive for.

[Ruby Slippers]

I read the whole thread. And I'm wondering - are your swinging days over? It seems that the biggest problem is that you feel undesired and unfulfilled with the sex you're having. Both of you have had the fortitude to weather outside sexual involvements before. Are those days over?

[oldshirt]

I read the whole thread. And I'm wondering - are your swinging days over? It seems that the biggest problem is that you feel undesired and unfulfilled with the sex you're having. Both of you have had the fortitude to weather outside sexual involvements before. Are those days over?

 

Yeah pretty much.

 

 

We haven't been active in that lifestyle for several years.

 

 

We still maintain a few friendships with some of our old swinger friends but we haven't had any kind of sexual contact with them for several years.

 

 

Every now and then we'll still get an invitation to a party or an event or something and we'll mention it, but there always seems to be some kind of kid activity going on that night or something else going on.

 

 

We've kind of left it as we'll consider it on a case-by-base bases and if the stars all line up and everything is falling into place, we'll play it by ear.

 

 

Maybe the best way to put it is we haven't ruled it out as an actual policy but we haven't lifted a finger to do anything in that world in a long time and perhaps never will.

[oldshirt]

Yeah pretty much.

 

 

We haven't been active in that lifestyle for several years.

 

 

We still maintain a few friendships with some of our old swinger friends but we haven't had any kind of sexual contact with them for several years.

 

 

Every now and then we'll still get an invitation to a party or an event or something and we'll mention it, but there always seems to be some kind of kid activity going on that night or something else going on.

 

 

We've kind of left it as we'll consider it on a case-by-base bases and if the stars all line up and everything is falling into place, we'll play it by ear.

 

 

Maybe the best way to put it is we haven't ruled it out as an actual policy but we haven't lifted a finger to do anything in that world in a long time and perhaps never will.

 

 

.....part of me would like to revisit it just so I could have the possibility of being with a woman that still has a sex drive and wants to be with me and has some enthusiasm for it, even if just for a night.

 

 

But my wife is so disinterested in it I assume it wouldn't be worth it.

 

 

And I'll admit, a part of me is a bit insecure that it's just me she's not interested in and that someone else may trip her trigger better and then it will be over at the drop of a hat.

 

 

But at this rate, it may be over for me anyway before too long so maybe I should pursue it just to shake things up and move things along a bit.

 

 

But that is just a fantasy. I'm not really going to do that.

......but I should (picture my devil grin)

[Ruby Slippers]

When I mentioned swinging, I was thinking more of you having a sex buddy on the side. But I suppose that's not really swinging - more an open relationship. Is that not something you would consider? I guess my assumption is that two people who have comfortably mixed with other partners before would be more open to this idea.

 

It sounds to me as though you're seriously considering getting divorced over this. It seems extreme to me to divorce after 20 years of marriage because your wife is going through the temporary roller coaster of menopause. But then I can understand how frustrating it must be to have lots of sexual mojo and no good outlet for it.

 

I'm sure it's easier said than done, but I'd try not to take the flirtation with the neighbor personally. I imagine that with her very weak sex drive these days, she's probably grasping at straws to find anything that will get her even a little excited. Science has shown that novelty, an outside partner, is especially exciting to both men and women. But I'd guess that former swingers are aware of this!

 

(edit: I have no idea why there's a giant smilie at the top of this post - I guess I clicked that accidentally)

[oldshirt]

When I mentioned swinging, I was thinking more of you having a sex buddy on the side. But I suppose that's not really swinging - more an open relationship. Is that not something you would consider? I guess my assumption is that two people who have comfortably mixed with other partners before would be more open to this idea.

 

It sounds to me as though you're seriously considering getting divorced over this. It seems extreme to me to divorce after 20 years of marriage because your wife is going through the temporary roller coaster of menopause. But then I can understand how frustrating it must be to have lots of sexual mojo and no good outlet for it.

 

I'm sure it's easier said than done, but I'd try not to take the flirtation with the neighbor personally. I imagine that with her very weak sex drive these days, she's probably grasping at straws to find anything that will get her even a little excited. Science has shown that novelty, an outside partner, is especially exciting to both men and women. But I'd guess that former swingers are aware of this!

 

(edit: I have no idea why there's a giant smilie at the top of this post - I guess I clicked that accidentally)

 

You make several good points. Here's a few random factoids in particular order.

 

- I'm not contemplating divorce because she's going through menopause. Check I'll probably be going through MANopause myself here before too long. I'm very frustrated and dissatisfied because she doesn't talk to me unless it's something about the kids or something that needs fixing in the house. She rarely has any warmth or affection or any warm feelings for me. She has no desire for me and when we do try to make love, she is detached and looking at the clock, telling me to hurry up and at times does not even lay a finger on me or touch me (and that is a literal fact and not a figure of speech).

 

- I do want to put in a full faith effort to rekindle some of her desire for me and I do want to remain married to her. But if my efforts fail or I find she has someone on the side or is simply just done with me, I will consider amicable divorce as an option.

 

- I would consider a FWB and would be OK with it as a concept. I imagine she would be fine with it as well. However I am a 51 year old bald guy that is not any kind of rich executive or millionaire or playing etc.

 

The chances of finding a real life FWB that is good with just a weekly hook up is small and I myself would probably want more eventually since my ultimate goal is a full service relationship.

[Ruby Slippers]

I'm very frustrated and dissatisfied because she doesn't talk to me unless it's something about the kids or something that needs fixing in the house. She rarely has any warmth or affection or any warm feelings for me. She has no desire for me and when we do try to make love, she is detached and looking at the clock, telling me to hurry up and at times does not even lay a finger on me or touch me (and that is a literal fact and not a figure of speech).

Ugh, this sounds bad. Do you think she's going through a spell of depression? My mom and a mom-like friend I know who went through menopause both told me that it wreaked a lot of havoc on their nerves and mood, much more than they expected it would.

 

I would consider a FWB and would be OK with it as a concept. I imagine she would be fine with it as well. However I am a 51 year old bald guy that is not any kind of rich executive or millionaire or playing etc.

 

The chances of finding a real life FWB that is good with just a weekly hook up is small and I myself would probably want more eventually since my ultimate goal is a full service relationship.

It might be fun to just look and see if you get lucky. You're not getting lucky at home, so even if you don't, nothing's changed. It could alleviate some of your frustrations.

 

In any case, I hope you can work it out. From your writing here in the past, I've gotten the impression you have a strong relationship that can weather a lot.

[spanz1]

bioidentical seeds would bring back her libido, AND help with her vagina wall soreness.

 

 

there is a book "healing painful sex" you can get her to read.

 

 

you are right to use LOTS of lubricant. a lot of women feel hey do not need it, then complain left and right about painful intercourse! I guess its some sort of denial mechanism.

[oldshirt]

 

 

It might be fun to just look and see if you get lucky. You're not getting lucky at home, so even if you don't, nothing's changed. It could alleviate some of your frustrations.

 

 

Here is kind of a bitter irony of the world. Getting no-strings FWBs on the side for married women is the easiest thing in the world. If some gal wants some extra on the side, darn near every man on the planet raises his hand and does the Pick Me! Dance.

 

It's completely different or married men. Women are funny, they will stab their sisters in the back and cheat with a married man if they think they can "win" in the end.

 

But they want nothing to do with a man who has his wife's blessing to get some on the side. It is actually a lot easier for a married man to cheat behind his wife's back than to get a FWB with his wife's blessing.

 

But that aside, here's my current thoughts on an open marriage arraingement. For me to get a somewhat attractive FWB that I would want to be around, I would have to look sharp, be fit, be nice and charming and take her out and do things and be a generally fun and sexy guy and establish a good rapport with her.

 

If I have to do those things anyway, I might as well try it first on my wife because if I can catch her interest I may be able to score and not have to leave the house LOL ;-)

 

In otherwords I have to exhaust the whole dance with my wife before I turn those attentions to other people.

 

If I do everything I can to be as desirable as I can to the best of my ability and my wife still has no interest, then I will consider other options.

[oldshirt]

Just bumping this back up so I can refer back to it for background.

[Hopeful714]

Hi Oldshirt,

 

I just spent a few hrs reading this entire post and figured I'd throw my two cents in.

 

I am a 50 year old single woman in the midst of the change of life and I'm here to say it's a pretty awful and difficult time. A time of change for sure.

 

Throughout the years, I have maintained well, or so I am told. Regardless of that, and that I exercise regularly and eat healthy, this hormonal change is just kicking my as#!

 

I, like your wife have experienced pms/pmdd. I have read that the women who do, may experience an even rougher hormonal transition. Everyone's experience is different.

 

Aside from the daily tiredness and exhaustion, there is the mood shifts, body aches, bloating, depression, vaginal dryness, low libido, headaches, and hot flashes. Combine this with the visible signs of aging we see in the mirror and the pressure we feel to be "our old self" when we really want to,,,,,but can't because we have all this going on,,,, and feel crappy most the time, and it makes for one heck of a difficult time in life. If only you men could understand...and I say that respectfully. Unfortunately, at this time many women just don't feel sexy. Period.

 

What I write of is pretty much the norm as all of my friends who are around my age feel some, if not all or more of the same symptoms I described. So I'm sure your wife at 48 feels something similar, if not heightened as she still needs to play the role of mother and wife at this time when MANY, MANY women say they just want to be left alone for a while. To sort themselves out, find relief from the symptoms, and yes, come to terms with the fact that it's nearing lemonade time....very quickly.

 

Let me tell you that right now, I'd guess your wife is not thinking of other men at all. She is most likely trying and fighting to stay afloat amidst this sea of hormones (and lack of them) that are stealing her body, thoughts and mind. Her encounters with the neighbors (although disrespectful) were most likely a fleeting moment where she was swept away and feeling like her old self again. I'm sorry these moments with you are not as frequent right now.

 

There is no cure for this. Antidepressants don't really work because it's a hormone thing and hormone therapy can be costly, may or may not work, and may even be dangerous for some women. The truth is Oldshirt, your wife is aging. She will never be the same, but hopefully, she can emerge into a stronger, positive, more energetic and different woman, who has much love for you, once this transition is complete. That takes time though, maybe several years, (which you don't appear to have) and depends entirely on her and how she views herself, her life, and you, as she gets set for her third, and final act in life.

 

I hope this helps you somewhat in trying to understand what she may be feeling. But wow...you guys really need to talk, and you will need to remain supportive if you wish to stay together. Any type of tough guy antics won't be tolerated by a menopausal woman! Trust me.

 

I do believe that you have every right to be validated however. She OWES you the right to have an open discussion with her, to explain to you how she feels, hear you out, and to make you feel wanted and desired, and not just with sex ...if she still wants this relationship for the long haul.

 

That's all I can say for now as this rollercoaster ride is far from over, but I do know that many women have crossed to become better women. And, I have been told by MANY that it DOES get better! I hope your wife is one who transitions well, and that you can accept some new changes. You seem like a really decent guy. Good luck!

 

P.S. at 50, you may feel ok NOW, but your no spring chick yourself! Wink!

[oldshirt]

Hi Oldshirt,

 

I just spent a few hrs reading this entire post and figured I'd throw my two cents in.

 

I am a 50 year old single woman in the midst of the change of life and I'm here to say it's a pretty awful and difficult time. A time of change for sure.

 

Throughout the years, I have maintained well, or so I am told. Regardless of that, and that I exercise regularly and eat healthy, this hormonal change is just kicking my as#!

 

I, like your wife have experienced pms/pmdd. I have read that the women who do, may experience an even rougher hormonal transition. Everyone's experience is different.

 

Aside from the daily tiredness and exhaustion, there is the mood shifts, body aches, bloating, depression, vaginal dryness, low libido, headaches, and hot flashes. Combine this with the visible signs of aging we see in the mirror and the pressure we feel to be "our old self" when we really want to,,,,,but can't because we have all this going on,,,, and feel crappy most the time, and it makes for one heck of a difficult time in life. If only you men could understand...and I say that respectfully. Unfortunately, at this time many women just don't feel sexy. Period.

 

What I write of is pretty much the norm as all of my friends who are around my age feel some, if not all or more of the same symptoms I described. So I'm sure your wife at 48 feels something similar, if not heightened as she still needs to play the role of mother and wife at this time when MANY, MANY women say they just want to be left alone for a while. To sort themselves out, find relief from the symptoms, and yes, come to terms with the fact that it's nearing lemonade time....very quickly.

 

Let me tell you that right now, I'd guess your wife is not thinking of other men at all. She is most likely trying and fighting to stay afloat amidst this sea of hormones (and lack of them) that are stealing her body, thoughts and mind. Her encounters with the neighbors (although disrespectful) were most likely a fleeting moment where she was swept away and feeling like her old self again. I'm sorry these moments with you are not as frequent right now.

 

There is no cure for this. Antidepressants don't really work because it's a hormone thing and hormone therapy can be costly, may or may not work, and may even be dangerous for some women. The truth is Oldshirt, your wife is aging. She will never be the same, but hopefully, she can emerge into a stronger, positive, more energetic and different woman, who has much love for you, once this transition is complete. That takes time though, maybe several years, (which you don't appear to have) and depends entirely on her and how she views herself, her life, and you, as she gets set for her third, and final act in life.

 

I hope this helps you somewhat in trying to understand what she may be feeling. But wow...you guys really need to talk, and you will need to remain supportive if you wish to stay together. Any type of tough guy antics won't be tolerated by a menopausal woman! Trust me.

 

I do believe that you have every right to be validated however. She OWES you the right to have an open discussion with her, to explain to you how she feels, hear you out, and to make you feel wanted and desired, and not just with sex ...if she still wants this relationship for the long haul.

 

That's all I can say for now as this rollercoaster ride is far from over, but I do know that many women have crossed to become better women. And, I have been told by MANY that it DOES get better! I hope your wife is one who transitions well, and that you can accept some new changes. You seem like a really decent guy. Good luck!

 

P.S. at 50, you may feel ok NOW, but your no spring chick yourself! Wink!

 

 

 

Thank you for taking the time to read the whole thread and for your thoughtful and insightful post.

 

 

You bring up a lot of good points and there are a number of things I am working on in regards to making sure I am doing the best that I can to deal with some of these issues.

 

 

I am not sure if you have read my other thread but I have detailed the topics I am working on in the thread titled "Hoping to Stop the Downhill Plunge...." and I will be updating that at a later point today.

 

 

Some of the things you have brought up in this post, I have addressed or am addressing in that other thread.

[underpants]

Just yucky... I can't imagine.