things have been going downhill, but last night about put me over

[GorillaTheater]

let kindness and love be your guide- not all these other suggestions to treat her like s!ht.

 

I can't speak for the other posters, but I certainly wasn't advocating that. Even after I went through this mind-shift, realizing that maybe my marriage wasn't going to last, I treated her respectfully and was the funny and fun guy I've always considered myself to be. Because I began to distance myself emotionally, I was probably better at that than I would've been otherwise, all wound up and resentful and pissy about things. I was sure headed in that direction, before I mentally shifted gears.

 

NDY, whether you agree with how I handled things or not, the one piece of advice that I know will help you and maybe your marriage as well is to start looking after yourself, eating right, exercise, and exploring hobbies. Essentially, getting a life that's in part independent from her. Or maybe more aptly put: not dependent on her. The confidence and attitude shift will serve you whatever happens, and might just begin to attract your wife (but DON'T do it for that reason, you're trying to avoid resentment and not building expectations that may not be met).

 

I'd also recommend reading "No More Mr. Nice Guy" by Robert Glover. It's not about becoming a jerk, but rather getting your sh*t together.

[oldshirt]

So while I have a few minutes here are a few more points I want to share.

 

When we had our talk last week, she made special mention that I have her blessings to "take care of yourself as much as you want."

 

I've tried not to be threatening or an ass or anything but I calmly and respectfully stated that if she is telling me I have to take care of myself from now on, why be married at all? I reaffirmed my position from our counseling that being platonic roommates is not an option.

 

I could telling she was going to go all defensive and on the counter attack so that is where we left it.

 

I didn't bring up anything about getting a hall pass or open marriage or anything, but I would be willing to bet, she would be fine if I got it elsewhere. I don't really wan to go there yet but I'm starting to consider things that would have never crossed my mind in the past.

 

More later.

[kgcolonel]

If I can make just a couple of comments here: My wife and I have been married 32 years, some great and some not so great but faithful and no major issues. That being said, the hypothetical conversation you diagramed was very similar to one we could have had. Note also that when my wife went through menopause, the crazy truly came out, this is a tough time with all the hormonal changes happening. No excuse but truth.

 

Maybe a different approach that might yield a dual purpose for each of you:

 

You might start by: Hey honey, that night was a very different night we had for your birthday. Did you have fun? Do you think you would like more nights similar to that one? You really seemed to be enjoying your self. I haven't seen you relaxed and loose like that in a very long time. What are your thoughts on the evening overall?

 

This approach will not put her on the defensive and will not pre-state your displeasure of how things went down. This will yield true answers from her as to if this is a direction she intends to continue or if it was a one time thing that took its course and she is over it or that she really hasn't given it much thought and its no big event in her mind.

 

This way, you might actually see what's on her mind by not putting her on the defensive by letting her know how disrespected you feel up front. (I'm not saying you don't get to state this but I have found that it is important to understand the other person's perspective unabridged and un-biased before taking a position. This can prevent making a mountain from a molehill...southern expression).

 

Just a thought.

[USEDOW]

Ordering her home from her birthday party like a neanderthal.... M'y ex did that and I lost respect for him. OK I was flirting but only that at the time... Not a good move You are in the every move leads to sex era during your long marriage. Try quick hugs for a bit no sex and genuine kisses which do not lead to sex. .

Edited September 29, 2015 by USEDOW

[OldRover]

NotDead,

 

You still have a LOT going for you, and while it seems like a lot of folks say dump her, divorce, etc., you are far from that.

 

Have a good talk with her and tell her things will be better. Get a copy of 5 Love Languages and read it to her, and then implement into your lives. That's a good start. Work HARD on reestablishing a loving relationship.

 

And, she has indicated a willingness to solve the sex issue. Work with her, and find the right Dr or Therapist that can help. This CAN be fixed, or at least significantly improved.

 

Also, you will have to establish boundaries that you both agree to, and once you reestablish a loving relationship, it should be easy. Her behavior that night was totally past any reasonable boundaries. You might limit "drinking night out" a bit, and I could argue to NEVER EVER get drunk again when with others.

 

Good luck.

[oldshirt]

Ooops, I really goofed up guys.

 

Notdeadyet is really me.

 

I've made a habit of chastising guys in this situation and now Karma has struck and its me in this situation.

 

I understand if your losses and understand if the Admins kick me off for the other profile but I did it to have a clean slate.

 

The situation is real and my concern is sincere. This has really shaken me and I kind of am getting to the end of my rope.

 

I am sorry for the imposter account but I though if I got fresh ideas it would help.

 

I'm getting to a point I'm stumped on what I can do. I am sorry for the deception and understand if no-one wants to help and understand if I get the boot from the site.

[S2B]

I need to make a couple quick clarifications. We did not have a fight the other night. The theoretical conversation that I mentioned in an earlier post is my assumption on how I assume it would have gone if I had brought it up. That assumption is based on past discussions we have had a few years ago when we were in counseling.

 

 

She typically does treat me with common courtesy. That hasn't always been the case though. There was a period of time when she was nice to the homeless drunk under the bridge but every word that came out of her mouth towards me was snide and snotty. That was one of the big issues addressed in counseling and the counselor basically told her if she wanted to be married at all, she better knock that off. And since then I do call her out on it and walk away if she's getting catty.

 

 

I just know in my gut that is how she would have reacted this weekend if I brought it up. It didn't actually happen.

 

 

I also want to reiterate that I have not been whining or bitching about our sexlife for the last couple years. It was another point of contention when we were in counseling but since then I have made a concerted effort not to be complaining or pressuring.

 

 

We did have a reasonably polite conversation last week about the decline in quality that she initiated and she apologized for being basically a dud in bed. I haven't brought anything up since then.

 

 

 

You may not have had a fight - but she was flirty with men and you didn't (haven't) told her how that made you feel. You've stayed silent knowing you resent how she behaved.

 

You've handed her all your power. She knows this.

 

And you seem afraid to be honest with her - about how she acted, about how you feel - and about getting YOUR needs met.

 

She may be going through menopause... But that shouldn't give a woman a pass to ignore her husband's needs and wants. She's just being a crappy wife yet you are afraid to tell her she's being crappy.

 

You need to get back to counseling. You need to speak up in a calm way.

 

And you need to regain some strength in this Union. Stop handing her all the power like she's the boss of you.

 

You feel neglected? Tell her. You feel disrespected? Tell her. You feel she's not considering you? Tell her.

 

If she doesn't intend to change then you know what you can or can't live with.

[GorillaTheater]

Ooops, I really goofed up guys.

 

Notdeadyet is really me.

 

I've made a habit of chastising guys in this situation and now Karma has struck and its me in this situation.

 

I understand if your losses and understand if the Admins kick me off for the other profile but I did it to have a clean slate.

 

The situation is real and my concern is sincere. This has really shaken me and I kind of am getting to the end of my rope.

 

I am sorry for the imposter account but I though if I got fresh ideas it would help.

 

I'm getting to a point I'm stumped on what I can do. I am sorry for the deception and understand if no-one wants to help and understand if I get the boot from the site.

 

No offense taken on my part, and I know how you feel. After a while you sort of become "established" on a site, and for whatever odd reason become reluctant to share intimate details of your life. Beats the hell out of me why, but I've been there myself.

 

We're still good, and on your behalf I'm asking for some understanding on the part of the folks who run this site.

[S2B]

My position stands no matter what poster you are.

 

 

Your wife doesn't respect you.

 

She's ready for an affair if she's not having one.

 

You are being too weak to regain power in this marriage. Start being stronger. Be honest with her - she isn't being a good partner.

 

If she's unwilling to change and reconnect with you this M is over - unless she intends to open the M so you can get your needs net outside the marriage.

[GorillaTheater]

When we had our talk last week, she made special mention that I have her blessings to "take care of yourself as much as you want."

 

I've tried not to be threatening or an ass or anything but I calmly and respectfully stated that if she is telling me I have to take care of myself from now on, why be married at all? I reaffirmed my position from our counseling that being platonic roommates is not an option.

 

I could telling she was going to go all defensive and on the counter attack so that is where we left it.

 

I didn't bring up anything about getting a hall pass or open marriage or anything, but I would be willing to bet, she would be fine if I got it elsewhere. I don't really wan to go there yet but I'm starting to consider things that would have never crossed my mind in the past.

 

Now that I know what's going on, I'll comment on this.

 

It's a big red flag. It tells me one of two things: that she has so disconnected from you that she really doesn't care who you schtup, or that she is or is seriously considering doing the same and it would make her feel less guilty about it if you were going outside the marriage, too. Both may be true.

 

I could be wrong, but I think you have a real problem on your hands. I'd point you back to that Evidence Gathering link for some recon on your part. Information is power.

[kgcolonel]

I think you need to fully understand her desires / direction going forward with respect to your relationship and set your course accordingly. My approach may be considered weak from the beginning but, if you think about it, it will be a very decisive and clear direction once you determine some of the following:

 

1. Does she desire more evenings like that on her birthday?

 

2. Does she see this as a one time experience where she was able to walk outside the lines for an evening with you there to keep her safe?

 

3. Is she okay with you doing the same thing? (not necessarily that this is what you want but to understand her mindset will allow you to make accurate decisions based on where she is headed).

 

I see this as a crossroad whether or not you two stay together or not is not necessarily the issue but what and how to conduct yourself and to expect from her going forward is the key.

[Mr. Lucky]

Ooops, I really goofed up guys.

 

Notdeadyet is really me.

 

I've made a habit of chastising guys in this situation and now Karma has struck and its me in this situation.

 

I understand if your losses and understand if the Admins kick me off for the other profile but I did it to have a clean slate.

 

The situation is real and my concern is sincere. This has really shaken me and I kind of am getting to the end of my rope.

 

I am sorry for the imposter account but I though if I got fresh ideas it would help.

 

I'm getting to a point I'm stumped on what I can do. I am sorry for the deception and understand if no-one wants to help and understand if I get the boot from the site.

 

It would be easier to chastise you if I didn't admit I'd had the same (unacted upon) idea myself. When you have an extensive posting history, people tend to look at you a certain way which colors their responses.

 

I was just about to quote your cross-post and ask if it was from another thread. Glad you came forward.

 

If I recall, you have a fairly unconventional marital history. Do you think it has any impact on this?

 

Mr. Lucky

[oldshirt]

Thanks for understanding. I am actually quite disgusted at myself for outing myself. I really wanted to have some anonymity and have this situation judged solely on its own merits and not be influenced by my previous history or my posting history.

 

But it is what it is and my plan at this point is to swallow my pride, tuck my tail between my legs, beg for Foregiveness and then keep moving forward openly and honestly.

 

The situation and the impact it has had on me were exactly as I have stated. My plan is to keep moving forward unless the mods pull the thread.

[oldshirt]

It would be easier to chastise you if I didn't admit I'd had the same (unacted upon) idea myself. When you have an extensive posting history, people tend to look at you a certain way which colors their responses.

 

I was just about to quote your cross-post and ask if it was from another thread. Glad you came forward.

 

If I recall, you have a fairly unconventional marital history. Do you think it has any impact on this?

 

Mr. Lucky

 

My unconventional marital history definately plays this role-

 

#1. It highlights that I am not jealous, paranoid or squeamish about her dirty dancing and flirting up with other men. We've probably been out dancing and partying a hundred times. This is different. I can't quantify it or back it with objective facts, but this is different.

 

#2. I know when she has her game face on and is ready to throw down. She had her game face on and was ready to bring it Sat night, only this time she didn't want me in the game. This has never happened before.

 

#3. We havent been in that lifestyle for a number of years and it was clear that this was just a regular evening out with neighbors. There were no plans or expectations of this being a swinging event. Whatever she was doing, she was doing on her own time and her own dime, it wasn't part of plan.

 

 

And again, I have no objective facts or figures. This is all gut instinct and internal alarm bells going off.

 

I could be wrong about everything.

 

........but I am very very rarely completely wrong about things like this anymore after being on this site for so long.

 

Is being on here making me paranoid or I am picking up signs long before there is objective evidence.

[Mr. Lucky]

The situation and the impact it has had on me were exactly as I have stated.

 

If that's the case, then this is a pretty damaging statement:

 

When we had our talk last week, she made special mention that I have her blessings to "take care of yourself as much as you want."

 

I've tried not to be threatening or an ass or anything but I calmly and respectfully stated that if she is telling me I have to take care of myself from now on, why be married at all? I reaffirmed my position from our counseling that being platonic roommates is not an option.

 

The unsaid part of ""take care of yourself as much as you want." is "and so will I". So the implication is, while you might be platonic with each other, you'd be active with others. Puts her interaction with the neighbors in a different light.

 

I'll also add that menopause required a huge adjustment in our marriage and one that took several years to make. Things never got back to "normal", we had to find a new way to stay intimately connected. Let's just say if foreplay ever becomes an Olympic event, I might be a medal contender. If my wife's not feelin' it, she takes care of me. Communication has been the key to our marital survival...

 

Mr. Lucky

[oldshirt]

 

 

 

The unsaid part of ""take care of yourself as much as you want." is "and so will I". So the implication is, while you might be platonic with each other, you'd be active with others.

 

i really think she was referring to masturbation when she said that as opposed to offering open marriage. I suppose I should have asked for clarification.

 

I'll also add that menopause required a huge adjustment in our marriage and one that took several years to make. Things never got back to "normal", we had to find a new way to stay intimately connected. Let's just say if foreplay ever becomes an Olympic event, I might be a medal contender. If my wife's not feelin' it, she takes care of me.

 

This kind of how we have been operating the last couple years. I missed the good old days but I could live with making accommodations for menopausal challenges.

 

This is assuming she wants to be with me at all to begin with. The problem is the last several months things have been degrading to the point I strongly question whether she wants an intimate life with me at all.

 

Then this past weekend when The Force was telling me she wanted me out of the way so she could have fun with neighbors barely know, it brought it all crashing down.

 

Now I am questioning everything all over again.

 

 

 

Responses above.

[Mr. Lucky]

This kind of how we have been operating the last couple years. I missed the good old days but I could live with making accommodations for menopausal challenges.

 

This is assuming she wants to be with me at all to begin with. The problem is the last several months things have been degrading to the point I strongly question whether she wants an intimate life with me at all.

 

Then this past weekend when The Force was telling me she wanted me out of the way so she could have fun with neighbors barely know, it brought it all crashing down.

 

Now I am questioning everything all over again.

 

Too bad, I've seen the same thing in the marriages of several friends.

 

It's ironic that you work together as a couple to get to the "goal" - children raised, some financial security, career(s) winding down, grandkids on the way - and then sh*t falls apart. It's almost as if the distractions and demands of the journey keep you from addressing the issues in your marriage.

 

I'm sorry you're in this situation...

 

Mr. Lucky

[S2B]

So what if she may have been referring to masturbation - OR - someone else fulfilling YOUR needs...

 

The point is SHE has no intention of participating, of pleasing you, of connecting, of making effort to be/get intimacy in the marriage.

 

In fact, she's doing her best to eliminate those qualities that make a marriage fun, healthy and exciting.

 

 

It's up to you to change things. What do you plan to do? You need to regain respect. You need to shift the power away from it being handed to her on a silver platter.

 

You need to make adjustments to restore balance to this unhealthy marriage.

 

 

She's being a total jerk!!! Why is that ok? It's not.

[oldshirt]

 

The point is SHE has no intention of participating, of pleasing you, of connecting, of making effort to be/get intimacy in the marriage.

 

In fact, she's doing her best to eliminate those qualities that make a marriage fun, healthy and exciting.

 

 

 

 

 

She's being a total jerk!!!.

 

 

That's not exactly true. At least not yet.

 

As I said in my opening posts, she is not rejecting me. We are still technically sexually active.

 

The issue is not that we are sexless. The issue is she has no interest of her own and is just appeasing me - or in her words, "taking one for the team."

 

It is currently duty sex and starfish sex.

 

Every now and then she seems somewhat engaged and connected. Most of the time it's her doing me a favor. And there are times she's basically just letting me use her body to masturbate with.

 

She is currently trying but I can see her motivation to try is decreasing.

 

I am willing to work with her to make our sexlife work for our mutual benifit if this is a menopause issue. But what shook me up this weekend is she appeared horny and wanting to play -

 

- Just not with me.

 

I can live with someone that loves me and wants to be with me but just has declining libido due to aging and menopause.

 

I can't live with someone who doesn't desire me and wants other men instead.

 

And I wouldn't say she's being a jerk. Most of the time she is pleasant to me and seems to thoroughly enjoy our home and family life. She just doesn't want me sexually anymore.

 

At this point I don't know if it's me, if it's menopause, or is she is simply wanting someone else.

[Dolfin80]

That's not exactly true. At least not yet.

 

As I said in my opening posts, she is not rejecting me. We are still technically sexually active.

 

The issue is not that we are sexless. The issue is she has no interest of her own and is just appeasing me - or in her words, "taking one for the team."

 

It is currently duty sex and starfish sex.

 

Every now and then she seems somewhat engaged and connected. Most of the time it's her doing me a favor. And there are times she's basically just letting me use her body to masturbate with.

 

She is currently trying but I can see her motivation to try is decreasing.

 

I am willing to work with her to make our sexlife work for our mutual benifit if this is a menopause issue. But what shook me up this weekend is she appeared horny and wanting to play -

 

- Just not with me.

 

I can live with someone that loves me and wants to be with me but just has declining libido due to aging and menopause.

 

I can't live with someone who doesn't desire me and wants other men instead.

 

And I wouldn't say she's being a jerk. Most of the time she is pleasant to me and seems to thoroughly enjoy our home and family life. She just doesn't want me sexually anymore.

 

At this point I don't know if it's me, if it's menopause, or is she is simply wanting someone else.

 

Hey didn't you say on another thread that she stopped wanting sex after having kids? If so then she has been like this for some time then.

 

Could she be now asexual?

[oldshirt]

Hey didn't you say on another thread that she stopped wanting sex after having kids? If so then she has been like this for some time then.

 

Could she be now asexual?

 

Her libido did drop off the cliff when the kids came along but it did bounce back a year or so after the 2nd.

 

It never was the same as before kids but who's is. I'd say at one point she was back to around 85% of her pre-kids level. So yes it has been kind of a roller coaster.

 

The last couple years it's been dropping off significantly and the last several months have pretty much nose- dived.

 

Where I'm at now is being back to square one where I don't know if she is becoming asexual do to hormonal/menopausal issues, a relationship issue between us, just asexual towards me, or wanting someone else.

[GorillaTheater]

I'm not a HUGE fan of MC, if for no other reason than it's so dependent on how good the counselor is, but have you considered it? It can be a good place to put the issues on the table in a more-or-less controlled environment.

 

Would she go for it? If not, her not wanting to do something that might help your marriage is yet another issue.

[oldshirt]

I'm not a HUGE fan of MC, if for no other reason than it's so dependent on how good the counselor is, but have you considered it? It can be a good place to put the issues on the table in a more-or-less controlled environment.

 

Would she go for it? If not, her not wanting to do something that might help your marriage is yet another issue.

 

I'd bet my last dollar she'll refuse another round of MC. But I'll be honest here, I'm not sure if I would go for it either.

 

We've been through two rounds with two different counselors. It did help, it really did.

 

But I'm not sure either of us have it in us to do it again. I'm at the point where I realize the onus is on me to $ht or get off the pot and decide whether we continue to keep trudging along or seek other alternatives.

 

I'm the dissatisfied party here. I'm the one with the beef. Her only complaint is my restlessness and dissatisfaction with her. If I could be perfectly happy living as roommates, she would be happy as a clam.

 

But I can't do roommates. So it's kind of on me to decide what to do and how to proceed. I am working on coming up with a plan on what to do from here.

 

I do need to do a little more fact finding to make sure I am doing it from an informed perspective.

 

I have a VAR but haven't deployed it yet. That may be one of the next steps. I have been hesitant to do so but I have noticed a couple of the guys from the other night have friended her on Facebook but not me. That may be the probable cause I need to put it into use.

[oldshirt]

........another tidbit of info in regards to MC. There are two things she hates more than anything else in this whole world.

 

One is opening her mouth and communicating about unpleasant things that matter.

 

And the other is being called out and held accountable for her own bad behavior.

 

Neither of those things went well for her in MC.

[GorillaTheater]

Where I'm at now is being back to square one where I don't know if she is becoming asexual do to hormonal/menopausal issues, a relationship issue between us, just asexual towards me, or wanting someone else.

 

From your description of the evening with the neighbors, she doesn't sound asexual across the board.

 

Where would you put the VAR? Her car? Does she work outside the home or stay home during the day?

 

At the risk of harping on that thread I posted, there's a lot of info on VARs, as well monitoring phones and laptops. In my case, I came up empty, but even that's an answer of sorts.