things have been going downhill, but last night about put me over

[oldshirt]

I don't see you considering the possibility (and in my experience as a woman: the reality) that a lapse in sex due to huge life change does not mean she wants a life of celibacy.

 

Can you love her through a life change that affects her sexuality for a season? What if she were sick with cancer? Does it matter if it's chemo or PMDD or menopause that's affecting her hormones if the impact to her sexuality is the same? Do you care about her experience and her struggle?

 

It really seems that is all about you for you, and maybe all about her for her at this point (although she was definitely putting your needs first for a long time). The solution is more thought and care for the other.

 

 

 

See my response to Shattered Lady. I think it also covers a lot of the things you have brought up.

[oldshirt]

To Mark878 and S2B

 

 

I would agree that she has always had something of a lack of respect issue towards me. I wouldn't say that she outright mistreats me much or overtly disrespects me much. It's more a case of never really taking me seriously a lot of the time.

 

 

I do need to point out that her mother and her sister treat her father and BIL horribly. In fact I've been downright shocked at the way they treat their husbands at times.

 

 

And not only that, she had some female relatives that actually murdered their husbands. One was a great grandmother or a great aunt killed her husband in broad daylight on main street in front of witnesses one day back in '20s or '30s. And in the '50s another aunt or cousin shot and killed her husband at home, took the kids down to the river and drowned them one at a time and then shot herself.

 

 

So there's not a good track record of the women in that family treating their husbands well. (I didn't know about the murders until after we were married)

 

 

In regards to the comments about weakness and Mr Nice Guy etc. I know it seems like I'm being wishy washy and spineless at the moment, but it's part of an intentional plan at this moment.

 

 

I have never gotten physical with her and have never called her names or anything, but we have had some real knock down/drag outs in the past that have caused actual damage to our marriage and our relationship. Trust me, I have taken her to the mat on many occasions and while I have never gotten physical or called her names, there have been times that if someone had seen or heard me, they probably would've called the cops.

 

 

She has packed up the kids and fled before. If it happens again, she may not come back.

 

 

I have called her out on her $h!t many times and I will maintain solid boundaries on this issue. I just have to address it smarter, not harder.

 

 

We have both been pushed to the breaking point before. We won't survive another blow out like we've had in the past.

 

 

I'm not afraid of her. I'm afraid of me.

[oldshirt]

 

Are you applying dread?

 

No. And I won't. Dread would be the last thing to do if I wanted to save the relationship. I am sure she knows I am getting dissatisfied and despondent again and is probably watching for signs of me getting ready to bail and if she sees that, she'll be reaching for the ejection handle as well.

I will either do or not do depending on circumstances. I won't threaten or manipulate.

I am either going to be working on preserving the relationship if I see signs of life in it, or I will be pulling the plug if I see signs that death is imminent. I won't be utilizing dread to try to manipulate a response.

 

 

 

 

 

 

Do you have options? If your marriage collapsed, do you have outcome independence such that you could shrug and go on, albeit with pain?

 

 

Yes.

 

 

 

Do you need your wife less than she needs you?

 

 

I don't know the answer to that. She seems like she needs me pretty damn little. If I were to throw in the towel and file, she would be mad and bitter, but I honestly do not think she would shed a single tear of sadness.

I know I would survive a divorce and carry on OK. I think she would probably carry on OKer.

 

Let me rephrase. You need your wife less than she needs you. Do you accept that? At your age, and given your description of yourself and your wife, you know that you will likely upgrade and she will downgrade if you divorce.

 

 

 

 

I'm not sure that is a true statement. I have confidence I could get someone younger and with more vitality and probably more compatible in temperament to me.

But here's my dilemma, I have a great memory. I can remember the great times from years ago like they were yesterday. I know I could find others. And perhaps there could be days and nights happier than things are today. But I know I wouldn't find anyone that would be better than what we had in days gone by and that is what holds me back.

The present hasn't gotten bad enough to make me willing to jettison the past yet.

And as far as her downgrading, I wouldn't say she would downgrade at all. She is still doctor or lawyer material. Now it wouldn't be young and up and coming doctors and lawyers that would want to start a family or anything like that of course, but the older guys who have already given their first or even second wife the boot would take her in a New York minute. now that is assuming her mojo came back for them. if she treats them like she treats me now, forget it.

 

 

 

If your know red pill, you know that you have to be willing to give her up if you want to keep her. Only if she realizes you would rather let her go than put up with her disrespect will she respect you. You surely know that.

 

 

Yes I realize all of that. The catch is I don't have a solid reason to walk away yet. I have no evidence she's ever cheated. She treats me well the vast majority of the time. We do have sex pretty much weekly to week and 1/2.

What do I tell her daddy? that She grimaces when we have sex now and then and tells me to hurry up????

What do I tell the kids why they are going to get shuffled off between two houses? That their mother isn't the porn star she was when she was 25???

I was raised to stand up for myself and not to be pushed around or abused or manipulated. But I was also raised up to not walk away from marriage simply because I'm not haaaaaaaaaapy at the moment.

I need a reason. I need a documentable, observable, objective, factual reason to drop the bomb and I don't have it yet.

 

 

 

 

 

responses in bold above.

[Mr. Lucky]

In my case she has looked me in the eye and told me if she knew how I'd be, she never would have married me. She has given me the ILYBNILWY. She has told me that she might as well be on her own for what little I have done for her.

 

 

Now all of those things were said in anger a few years ago when we were having relationship issues that landed us in the MC's office and she has since recanted and things have been a lot better, but you can see why my faith in her has been shaken.

 

I think you're facing two separate issues that may not have that much overlap.

 

The adjustments we made in our marriage post menopause were a difficult 3-year process, lots of ups and downs. I went through the same cycle of desire and feeling short-changed by my wife's lack of same. Our sex life now is different then before in that we have longer sessions less often. In between, my wife gives me the occasional "extra attention" .

 

It doesn't seem the detachment your wife feels - and her willingness to express it so disrespectfully - has much to do with sex. Tough part is, to make any real process I'd venture you'll have to set the intimate issues aside and focus on dealing with her resentment and anger. Unless those things are addressed, not sure I'd want to sleep in the same bed with her anyway.

 

I'd be very careful to avoid simple solutions to complex challenges. You can demand your marital rights all day - and night - but I'd doubt you'd be satisfied with the response. You may need the patience of a saint and the wisdom of Job, a tall order for anyone. One day at a time...

 

Mr. Lucky

[why1234]

Oldshirt, I am a doctor, about same age as you. I would never take a 48 year old woman. I'm sorry, but I have to be blunt. I could get a very attractive 30 year old woman without a batting an eye were I single. In a Manhattan minute.

 

Here is a solid reason. If you don't earn her respect, then neither she nor you will be happy. If you care about her happiness, you would bring down the hammer and make her respect you. You would give her the ultimatum. Take a walk or shape up.

 

If you don't do that, no matter how hot of a 48 year old she is, she is going to end up a bitter woman with great regrets. I promise you.You will NOT be doing her any favors allowing her to leave you thinking she's going to do better. She may be able to bang a decent 30 year old but there is no way she's going to find a LTR with a 30 year old. She will end up regretting that she ever left you. MARK MY WORDS.

 

If you care about her, you need to stand up, be strong, and make her respect you. Tell her you will walk if she doesn't behave. And if she doesn't, walk.

Edited October 3, 2015 by why1234

[Mr. Lucky]

If you care about her, you need to stand up, be strong, and make her respect you. Tell her you will walk if she doesn't behave. And if she doesn't, walk.

 

Exactly the type of over-simplified, "my way or the highway" solution to avoid...

 

Mr. Lucky

[why1234]

Exactly the type of over-simplified, "my way or the highway" solution to avoid...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Mr. Lucky, I've read your comments on other threads, and I think they're great.

 

In this case, I'd be interested in understanding what experience you have as to why you think this is oversimplified. Have you tried this and seen it fail? I have tried this approach and it has been very successful for me in a situation that is almost identical to Oldshirt's situation.

 

The point is that Oldshirt's wife doesn't respect him. The only way to rebuild that respect is to be strong.

[why1234]

Oldshirt, just consider this. If you don't bring the hammer down, it's almost a certainty she will leave you and your kids will be shuttled between two houses. If you bring the hammer down, she may come to her senses and you may enjoy the porn star sex and save your marriage. Are you strong enough to take that risk?

 

We all get what we deserve. That's what I believe.

[Mr. Lucky]

In this case, I'd be interested in understanding what experience you have as to why you think this is oversimplified. Have you tried this and seen it fail? I have tried this approach and it has been very successful for me in a situation that is almost identical to Oldshirt's situation.

 

You can't command someone who feels desire for no one to desire you. And the difficult dynamic this creates causes resentment and frustration that manifest themselves in different ways.

 

I'm guessing oldshirt has considerable marital equity on the table he'd like to preserve and brute force isn't the way to do it. As always, YMMV...

 

Mr. Lucky

[sandylee1]

I gotta get off forums....

 

How many people think going in like some "Me boss of woman who need behave" caveman is going to help this marriage?

 

I get it. Lots of men on LS have been betrayed. But just because you're a hammer doesn't mean everything is a nail.

 

I agree with you. This old fashioned method will just put fuel to the fire. I'm speaking from a woman's perspective, which I think would benefit Oldshirt. I love it when my husband does nice things me and treats me special, shows his love and appreciation - because I feel taken for granted at times (as does he I'm sure ), but at least having been a loving an affectionate husband, who pays attention to her your wife and tries to rekindle the romance, you can absolutely say you did everything if she decides she is no longer interested.

 

I'm not saying reward bad behaviour ......I'm thinking of going forward and sometimes one person needs to lead the way in showing setting an example for the kind of marriage you want.

 

There's a book called 'the surrendered wife' that helped me a lot. A friend recommended it. Just swapping the roles around might give

you an insight.

 

It's not about begging your wife to desire you, but when you demonstrate certain behaviours the desire will show. Desire doesn't always mean sex either.

[oldshirt]

Interesting debate between Mr Lucky and Why1234.

 

 

It's making my head spin. The way I see it, you are both right. I do need to earn her respect before anything else can fall into place. But I can't use hammers to force that into place. I can't "Make her behave."

 

 

Not having porn feelings for me is not misbehavior. You can't punish someone's feelings. Behaviors, words and actions can have consequences, feelings can't.

 

 

I can't make her love or respect me. I can become a better man and hope that she does. And I can become a better man to the point that even if she doesn't love or respect me, someone else will.

 

 

The ultimate goal here is about me. I can't change her. I can only change myself. That may influence her into making positive changes in herself, but it may not. At that point I will have a choice.

[Mr. Lucky]

 

 

I can't make her love or respect me. I can become a better man and hope that she does. And I can become a better man to the point that even if she doesn't love or respect me, someone else will.

 

 

The ultimate goal here is about me. I can't change her. I can only change myself. That may influence her into making positive changes in herself, but it may not. At that point I will have a choice.

 

Oldshirt, is anything about this a lesson in appreciating the life you already have?

 

I know I'm at times guilty of so focusing on pushing the rock uphill, both financially and maritally, that I fail to appreciate the progress already made. This can be frustrating for a spouse not on the same page, especially if they feel they're fighting battles on multiple fronts.

 

The catch 22 for you is that your wife might be better equipped to deal with the sexual issues if she thought other areas of the marriage were unchallenged, even if some of those challenges were of her own making.

 

Too bad MC is a no go. You have lots to talk about...

 

Mr. Lucky

[xxoo]

Interesting debate between Mr Lucky and Why1234.

 

 

It's making my head spin. The way I see it, you are both right. I do need to earn her respect before anything else can fall into place. But I can't use hammers to force that into place. I can't "Make her behave."

 

 

Not having porn feelings for me is not misbehavior. You can't punish someone's feelings. Behaviors, words and actions can have consequences, feelings can't.

 

 

I can't make her love or respect me. I can become a better man and hope that she does. And I can become a better man to the point that even if she doesn't love or respect me, someone else will.

 

 

The ultimate goal here is about me. I can't change her. I can only change myself. That may influence her into making positive changes in herself, but it may not. At that point I will have a choice.

 

This is good.

 

There is obviously lot of history and complexity to the marriage issues you two are facing right now. Try to keep that in mind, and resist the urge to simplify things to her being wrong. I don't think the right/wrong approach is ever helpful in working out marriage problems. Sometimes it's necessary, but then it usually ends in a necessary divorce.

 

No one "wins" a battle in marriage. Winning means putting down the weapons and armor and helping each other up. If one goes down, both go down.

 

Your reactions are understandable considering the history. Her reactions are understandable considering the history. But marriages aren't strengthened through reacting. They are strengthened through resisting reacting, and responding from a place of strength and love. And of course, it takes two.

 

I wish you the best. I do think there is a lot of love between you two, and a lot to lose if you keep moving away from each other.

[oldshirt]

.

 

The catch 22 for you is that your wife might be better equipped to deal with the sexual issues if she thought other areas of the marriage were unchallenged, even if some of those challenges were of her own making.

 

Too bad MC is a no go. You have lots to talk about...

 

 

I think you may have some wisdom in what you are saying above, but it is going over my head at the moment.

 

 

Could you dumb it down a little bit and explain in a little more detail?

[oldshirt]

....in regards to MC.

 

 

We have gone to MC twice with two different counselors a couple years apart for somewhat different, yet somewhat similar issues.

 

 

It did help.

 

 

However it is going to have to be something that she wants and that she brings up and asks for. If she wants the marriage intact and is willing to go to MC and asks that we try MC again, I will do it and will go in good faith.

 

 

However I am not going to be the one to ask for it. My objectives are simple and I am direct in addressing what I see are the issues and I am willing to address whatever issues she brings to the table.

 

 

She is the one that has the terrible time addressing issues and she is the one that hates being subjected to even the slightest criticism. MC was a miserable and horrific process for her and left her quite scarred and scorned.

 

 

If the marriage means enough to her that she is willing to go through that again to save it, I will cooperate and support it.

 

 

However if I am the one that brings it up, she will just say, "oh here we go again. we already did that and here you are bellyaching about it again."

 

 

So no, phck that. if one of us is heading out the door and she doesn't care enough to try professional help to keep us together, I'm not going to cough up the time, money and energy to try lead that horse to water.

 

 

If she brings it up and convinces me that she'll put in a sincere effort, then I will take that as her being serious about trying to save the marriage and I will do my due diligence as well.

 

 

The MC ball will be in her court if it ever gets to that point. I'm not bringing it up again or going there again unless it is by her hand.

 

 

If I walk, I don't think she'll try to stop me or try to fix anything.

 

 

If she walks, I'll take that as her final answer and go on about my own business.

[SummerDreams]

The issue is she has no interest of her own and is just appeasing me - or in her words, "taking one for the team."

 

It is currently duty sex and starfish sex.

 

Every now and then she seems somewhat engaged and connected. Most of the time it's her doing me a favor. And there are times she's basically just letting me use her body to masturbate with.

 

 

Can I ask you something? If we accept, for the sake of conversation, that your wife is not interested in sex anymore for whatever reasons and she is willing to spend the rest of her life with the least sex she can have, doing it only as a favor to you, how would you feel about it? If she swears to you that the issue is not that she doesn't love you or she wants other men or anhything else, rather than she just stopped caring about sex, would you accept it or divorce? You said already you are not OK with living as roomates so I'm gonna assume you won't accept it.

 

But what shook me up this weekend is she appeared horny and wanting to play -

 

- Just not with me.

 

Are you sure whatt she did was due to "horniness"? Lets not forget it was her birthday. All women feel sad and insecure on their birthdays. She has you and she knows you are there. But maybe she wants some reassurance that she id still desired by other men. Sometimes women can play with men to get them turned on only to get the validation and not having sex in their minds at all (I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing). Have you considered this?

 

I can live with someone that loves me and wants to be with me but just has declining libido due to aging and menopause.

 

I can't live with someone who doesn't desire me and wants other men instead.

 

She just doesn't want me sexually anymore.

 

At this point I don't know if it's me, if it's menopause, or is she is simply wanting someone else.

 

I'm not sure why in your mind not wanting you equals wanting someone else. Have you considered her not wanting sex at all anymore? The reasons may vary but the result is the same; she is done with sex. Still she makes herself do it for you every week or week and a half you said. This shows me she does care for you and your needs. But I don't understand why not desiring you = desiring someone else. If she did desire someone else, I'm sure by now she'd have created an affair and you would know. But you have no signs of this so I just come to the conclusion that sex has become too painful for her + she loses her libido due to menopause + she may be a little bored of her husband of many years --> she just quits sex and get it over with without getting frustrated with these issues or having to deal with them, which can be hard and upsetting.

[SummerDreams]

Another thing I wanted to comment on is what she uses to tell you "It's all about sex for you". I don't want to become suspicious or rude but I can't stop wondering why she says that. She's your wife, she knows you very well, she must have a reason to assume this. Do you maybe put much pressure on her without even realizing it? Sometimes what we don't say become more obvious than what we don't. It may be a grin, a smile, a sigh, the body language says a lot and we may not realize it. She knows you so she knows when you are frustrated, upset, angry etc, even if you try to hide it.

[why1234]

I agree with you. This old fashioned method will just put fuel to the fire. I'm speaking from a woman's perspective, which I think would benefit Oldshirt. I love it when my husband does nice things me and treats me special, shows his love and appreciation

 

What a person (man or woman) says (and believes) she wants and what she actually wants are not always the same.

 

Women always say they want affection, tenderness, stability and communication. But when a hot muscular stucco contractor bad boy comes around, they hop in bed with him. Then they say "I don't understand why I did that." Go to the infidelity forum. How many of those women say before the affair, "I want to have an affair, wreck my marriage, and put my kids into therapy"?

 

The heart wants what the heart wants. You can say what you want is appreciation but how you act may show that you want leadership from your man. (I don't know you so perhaps not, but this is true for many or most women.)

 

There's a book called 'the surrendered wife' that helped me a lot. A friend recommended it. Just swapping the roles around might give

you an insight.

 

Hm, this is odd. I thought this book was very Red Pill.

 

It's not about begging your wife to desire you, but when you demonstrate certain behaviours the desire will show. Desire doesn't always mean sex either.

 

And those behaviors = showing strength.

[why1234]

 

> Are you applying dread?

 

No. And I won't. Dread would be the last thing to do if I wanted to save the relationship. I am sure she knows I am getting dissatisfied and despondent again and is probably watching for signs of me getting ready to bail and if she sees that, she'll be reaching for the ejection handle as well.

 

I will either do or not do depending on circumstances. I won't threaten or manipulate.

 

Well, dread can backfire (and so can ultimatums) if your attractiveness is below your wife's so this may be the right decision.

 

But your wife is dreading you my friend.

 

I have confidence I could get someone younger and with more vitality and probably more compatible in temperament to me.

 

But here's my dilemma, I have a great memory. I can remember the great times from years ago like they were yesterday. I know I could find others. And perhaps there could be days and nights happier than things are today. But I know I wouldn't find anyone that would be better than what we had in days gone by and that is what holds me back.

 

And as far as her downgrading, I wouldn't say she would downgrade at all. She is still doctor or lawyer material.

 

Your wife doesn't seem to think those memories are special. Are they still special to you if she's forgotten them?

 

We can go around and around on who would upgrade/downgrade. At some point you were close enough in attractiveness that you got married to each other. Given that, it's hard for me to understand why your attractiveness would not be substantially higher at your age, especially since you work out... No wait, I do, I thought the same as you about my wife a year ago. But I was wrong.

 

What you might want to do, if this is not prohibited by OKCupid, is to make a profile with a photo resembling you and one with a photo resembling your wife, with all the same background info. See how many responses a 48 year old divorcee with kids get, vs you.

[why1234]

You can't command someone who feels desire for no one to desire you. And the difficult dynamic this creates causes resentment and frustration that manifest themselves in different ways.

 

I'm guessing oldshirt has considerable marital equity on the table he'd like to preserve and brute force isn't the way to do it. As always, YMMV...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

Ah, I see. There is a misunderstanding. I don't mean he needs to force her to do something. What I mean is that he has to become the kind of man who will not tolerate disrespect. The kind of man who will leave rather than do so. Both for his own self-respect as well as for his wife's.

 

It may be that (consciously or subconsciously) that his wife is testing him. She's wondering, "How much of a pushover is my husband? How emasculated is he? How much disrespect will he tolerate?"

 

She may be thinking she deserves someone who has more backbone.

 

Oldshirt, do you think she deserves someone who has more backbone, or do you think she deserves a pushover?

[why1234]

 

It's making my head spin. The way I see it, you are both right. I do need to earn her respect before anything else can fall into place. But I can't use hammers to force that into place. I can't "Make her behave."

 

Not having porn feelings for me is not misbehavior. You can't punish someone's feelings. Behaviors, words and actions can have consequences, feelings can't.

 

I can't make her love or respect me. I can become a better man and hope that she does. And I can become a better man to the point that even if she doesn't love or respect me, someone else will.

 

The ultimate goal here is about me. I can't change her. I can only change myself. That may influence her into making positive changes in herself, but it may not. At that point I will have a choice.

 

Bravo. If you take this approach, you will succeed.

 

One part of your original post I didn't recognize before as being really important: when you insisted that your wife leave the party, she did so. This is a very good sign. There is still a bit of respect left. I think my wife a year ago might have just laughed at me in the same situation. So you're not as far gone as I was.

 

If you don't want to go full TRP, and I understand - it's is not easy - then you might try what Fing_farted_on_me on Reddit did. I will post his story below, since I am not sure if LoveShack allows us to post links.

[oldshirt]

responses in bold below.

 

 

 

 

 

 

If we accept, for the sake of conversation, that your wife is not interested in sex anymore for whatever reasons and she is willing to spend the rest of her life with the least sex she can have, doing it only as a favor to you, how would you feel about it? If she swears to you that the issue is not that she doesn't love you or she wants other men or anhything else, rather than she just stopped caring about sex, would you accept it or divorce?

 

 

I want to experience love and passion and intimacy again. I'm not ready to sip lemonade on the porch yet. I am still healthy and virile and in reasonable shape for a man my age. I don't know how much longer any of those things will be the case. I wouldn't condemn her for her reality. But at this point in my life I don't think I can live in the same roof with a woman that doesn't want me.

Let me put in this way. If I am living with a woman that is beautiful and that I love and that I still desire and can remember great times of joy and passion with, but she doesn't want me. Then I feel rejection and heartbreak and despair every single day.

If I move on and am on my own, there are certainly no guarentees that I will find love again. But I can wake up every day thinking that today may be the day. It would at least be a possibility and I could put forth good faith effort and try.

Where as as long as I stay and accept those conditions, I am rejected and feel heartbreak every single day with no possibility for love and intimacy again.

 

 

 

Are you sure whatt she did was due to "horniness"? Lets not forget it was her birthday. All women feel sad and insecure on their birthdays. She has you and she knows you are there. But maybe she wants some reassurance that she id still desired by other men. Sometimes women can play with men to get them turned on only to get the validation and not having sex in their minds at all (I'm not saying this is a good or bad thing). Have you considered this?

 

Yes and I am even very willing to believe that this may have been a big part of it. As I have said before, I really am not upset about her dancing and socializing with other men. I am hurt that she wanted to do that with them and nothing with me.

 

 

I'm not sure why in your mind not wanting you equals wanting someone else.

 

 

It kinda didn't until I saw her dancing and talking smack with other men.

That was a trigger that slammed home she's not into me sexually any more.

 

 

 

 

Have you considered her not wanting sex at all anymore?

The reasons may vary but the result is the same; she is done with sex.

 

 

Of course I considered it. she's basically told me so.

It's like you have two doors infront of you and you have to pick one and go into that room. One room is full of man-eating snakes and the other is full of man-eating spiders. Which do you pick?

If she is just done with me but doesn't want anyone else, then my decision is do I accept a sexless marriage and sip lemonade on porch and accept that as my fate in life or do I move on and hope to find love again and be the one responsible for my kids losing their home and being despised by my inlaws?

But if she wants someone else, then I'm basically making both of us miserable if I try to get her to stay but at least I am not the bad guy.

Which door? Spiders or snakes?

 

 

Still she makes herself do it for you every week or week and a half you said. This shows me she does care for you and your needs.

 

 

Yes she is trying and I do credit her for that.

It does feel nice physically to feel her up against me. But it breaks my heart when I see her grimacing and scratching her head and looking at the clock and having her tell me to "hurry up."

Yes, I want to have sex but 99% of that is being wanted and being able to please and pleasure someone else. I want her to want me.

It's actually getting to the point where sex with her is no longer bonding and connecting but is actually making me feel dirty and like a creeper. It often times makes me feel less close, less bonded and less connected.

at the moment, I keep coming back because I keep hoping the next time will be different and the next time I'll hit the right combination and it will be good and it will make us feel closer again.

But eventually something will snap and I will be the one that is done with it and I will be the one sleeping in the guest room and be the one making excuses.

 

 

 

 

But I don't understand why not desiring you = desiring someone else. If she did desire someone else, I'm sure by now she'd have created an affair and you would know.

 

 

Part of that is my mind can't comprehend someone being asexual and not desiring something or someone. In my mind if it's not me she's desiring, then it must be someone else.

I know that may not be accurate, but it's how my mind works. When I saw her having fun dancing and frolicking with other men, it triggered that for me.

 

 

 

 

But you have no signs of this so I just come to the conclusion that sex has become too painful for her + she loses her libido due to menopause + she may be a little bored of her husband of many years --> she just quits sex and get it over with without getting frustrated with these issues or having to deal with them, which can be hard and upsetting

 

 

Spiders or snakes?

 

 

 

 

.

[autumnnight]

Ah, I see. There is a misunderstanding. I don't mean he needs to force her to do something. What I mean is that he has to become the kind of man who will not tolerate disrespect. The kind of man who will leave rather than do so. Both for his own self-respect as well as for his wife's.

 

It may be that (consciously or subconsciously) that his wife is testing him. She's wondering, "How much of a pushover is my husband? How emasculated is he? How much disrespect will he tolerate?"

 

She may be thinking she deserves someone who has more backbone.

 

Oldshirt, do you think she deserves someone who has more backbone, or do you think she deserves a pushover?

 

 

I am not sure how to say this circumscpectly in light of scrutiny, but I feel it is very important and relevant.

 

The above view, aliong with you other posts, is a view I have heard espoused by a very particular set of men. I am not saying good or bad men, just men with a very particular personality bent.

 

Men like this tend to marry a certain kind of woman. The kind of woman with whom heavy handedness, authority, "this IS how it is," etc. will work.

 

Because of old shirt's strong but kind and open type of personality (in my mind that very rare but perfect combination). I am thinking he probably did not marry that sort of woman. I know I, while very submissive by nature, am not that kind of woman. While please my partner (not just sexually) and making sure he knows I respect him is important to me....if he every came to me with the picture of man you are suggesting os present....my spine would straighten, my heart would slam shut, and I would respect him LESS for being a bully.

 

In other words, I do not think that oldshirt wants a wife who is afraid of him or subservient to him. I think that certain professions lend themselves to the type of personality that wants to "tell her how it's gonna be." But in this case, I believe with everything in me it will backfire.

 

I am a 48 year old ladylike, traditional woman with a high sex drive. I'm even one of those women who believes in that Ephesian 5 submission thing. But "bringing down a hammer" on me would result in me grabbing the frying pan and giving it back I know my own mind, and believe it or not, most other women do as well.

 

I hope as expressed that appropriately, as I believe it to be critical.

[oldshirt]

Another thing I wanted to comment on is what she uses to tell you "It's all about sex for you". I don't want to become suspicious or rude but I can't stop wondering why she says that. She's your wife, she knows you very well, she must have a reason to assume this. Do you maybe put much pressure on her without even realizing it? Sometimes what we don't say become more obvious than what we don't. It may be a grin, a smile, a sigh, the body language says a lot and we may not realize it. She knows you so she knows when you are frustrated, upset, angry etc, even if you try to hide it.

 

 

 

She knows I am a passionate man. She knows a lot of our original connection was sexual. She knows I am a man that won't be content to sit on the porch sipping lemonade.

 

 

She's seen me have sex with anywhere from 2 to 5 women in a night many times with her own eyes in the past.

 

 

I try not to pressure her and I try to be supportive. But I am sure on a very basic instinctual level, she knows a lion is not a vegetarian and will not be able to subsist on leaves and grasses very long.

 

 

That's why I told Why1234 that I won't use dread. She already knows the score and knows the stakes.

[autumnnight]

I see now that reddit has become involved. That explains a lot to me.

 

Oldshirt, I wish you the best.