Thanks everyone, I am done.

[Qboro90]

You miss the point here, I have done this a ton of time and immediately I order water and "oh you don't drink at all, that's odd". Immediately the interest wanes.

 

People put a massive emphasis on drinking as part of socialising and if you don't in many circles you are considered anti social.

 

I find it hard to believe that you've gone out with SO many alcoholics. It's more likely that they're just teasing you or saying it as banter. It would take an extremely rude and brash person to call someone out on not drinking during a first meeting. Doubtful that you've somehow run into the most vile women on so many occasions.

 

Club soda or tonic is a little better visual than water as ordering a water at a bar gives off the vibe that you don't want to be there at all. And if you don't want to be there then instead of agreeing to drinks when asked you can suggest a cafe or lounge. "Yea wanna grab a drink sometime".... Reply - "I know a nice lounge/cafe in the area we could go".

 

If a woman did confront you about drinking a simple "you're attractive so there's no need for beer goggles tonight" playfully which is a compliment and passes the comment by suavely.

[Qboro90]

As people have so eloquently (another word most dates don't understand) pointed out here it doesn't matter what one does one needs to be fun and I have no idea what fun is, for me fun is talking to someone I can actually engage with and challenges me on issues.

 

You above example is flawed because not matter what aspect of life, improvements motivate us to continue and if one sees no improvement then why continue?

 

My mood is filthy, why because once again I got turned down, this time a ex co worker I kept in contact with, she contacted me out of the blue as she was overseas and heading back to SA for a few months.

 

I casually asked if she would like to come to event as my friend, took her one week to reply which was NO, suddenly she had a boyfriend.

 

The forum will be glad to know I have cancelled the event I was going to where K would be there. I'd simply rather not go.

 

Then a friend thinks its a great idea I take someone who has a fiancé to a dinner as my partner as she is looking to network at said dinner, needless to say I rejected this straight away which again started a tired old argument.

 

"You are too negative, you are too that"

 

 

What's a "challenging conversation or challenging issue" that a woman could discuss with you on date number 1? Give an example on something that if you sat down to dinner, you would be like "OMG this is wonderful I can't believe she's talking about this with me!!"

 

First dates are general getting to know one another experiences. Who, what, where, when, why, type convos about what they do, where they grew up, and so on.

 

Challenging one another is something that develops as a relationship takes place. I enjoy political talks and debates but I'd never bring up the presidential candidates or election or challenge them on their thoughts regarding gun control while appetizers are being enjoyed.

 

I understand that those mundane conversations don't interest you but its ESSENTIAL and necessary in the early stages of dating. That's how you learn what areas you can delve deeper into and what the boundaries are. You have admitted to only being as experienced as far as 1 date, maybe 2. At those stages you're just not going to get the interaction and level of depth that you're searching for.

 

That doesn't mean that they can't offer you that eventually or challenge you like no one else. But you can't jump to step 8 before completing steps 1-7 first.

[ZA Dater]

What's a "challenging conversation or challenging issue" that a woman could discuss with you on date number 1? Give an example on something that if you sat down to dinner, you would be like "OMG this is wonderful I can't believe she's talking about this with me!!"

 

First dates are general getting to know one another experiences. Who, what, where, when, why, type convos about what they do, where they grew up, and so on.

 

Challenging one another is something that develops as a relationship takes place. I enjoy political talks and debates but I'd never bring up the presidential candidates or election or challenge them on their thoughts regarding gun control while appetizers are being enjoyed.

 

I understand that those mundane conversations don't interest you but its ESSENTIAL and necessary in the early stages of dating. That's how you learn what areas you can delve deeper into and what the boundaries are. You have admitted to only being as experienced as far as 1 date, maybe 2. At those stages you're just not going to get the interaction and level of depth that you're searching for.

 

That doesn't mean that they can't offer you that eventually or challenge you like no one else. But you can't jump to step 8 before completing steps 1-7 first.

 

Strange then that some of provide that challenge when I first meet them. Trust me if they can't illustrate any sort of worldly knowledge in 30 min they simply don't have it.

 

Firstly someone who can actually speak good English is wow to me.

 

Despondent is how I feel now, usually there is something to chase, now there is nothing.

[ZA Dater]

I find it hard to believe that you've gone out with SO many alcoholics. It's more likely that they're just teasing you or saying it as banter. It would take an extremely rude and brash person to call someone out on not drinking during a first meeting. Doubtful that you've somehow run into the most vile women on so many occasions.

 

Club soda or tonic is a little better visual than water as ordering a water at a bar gives off the vibe that you don't want to be there at all. And if you don't want to be there then instead of agreeing to drinks when asked you can suggest a cafe or lounge. "Yea wanna grab a drink sometime".... Reply - "I know a nice lounge/cafe in the area we could go".

 

If a woman did confront you about drinking a simple "you're attractive so there's no need for beer goggles tonight" playfully which is a compliment and passes the comment by suavely.

 

You have just pointed out what I call society norms. If want water I am going to have water, why must I order something else because it may give off a different vibe.

 

The more objectively I look at this the more I realize I am totally unsuited for dating in terms of what people seem to expect.

[Toodaloo]

Her: lets got for a drink?

Me: We can Id be happy to but I don't drink.

Her" Oh ok well I don't think it will work I like to drink.

 

ZA how it should have gone is

 

Her: lets go for a drink

You: Sure sounds great

Her: fantastic

 

You are installing negatives and making it hard for people to interact with you.

 

So you don't drink. **NEWFLASH** bars also sell non alcoholic drinks and even tea and coffee these days!

 

Stop being so damned negative ALL the time. Its draining not just to you but to EVERYONE around you.

 

10 years of negativity is going to bring you down! 10 years of negativity is also going to make others feel glum about you. Its an aura that will surround you and put people off. Change it. Vamp it up with some positive thinking.

[Toodaloo]

You have just pointed out what I call society norms.

 

No you have pointed out what YOU think are society norms. Which are in fact false.

 

9/10 days the only liquid to pass my lips is water. Am I unhappy or ashamed of that - no. Am I abnormal or weird. Probably but not because of my lack of addiction to booze but what the heck - I own it.

[ZA Dater]

ZA how it should have gone is

 

Her: lets go for a drink

You: Sure sounds great

Her: fantastic

 

You are installing negatives and making it hard for people to interact with you.

 

So you don't drink. **NEWFLASH** bars also sell non alcoholic drinks and even tea and coffee these days!

 

Stop being so damned negative ALL the time. Its draining not just to you but to EVERYONE around you.

 

10 years of negativity is going to bring you down! 10 years of negativity is also going to make others feel glum about you. Its an aura that will surround you and put people off. Change it. Vamp it up with some positive thinking.

 

I can only be me and if me is construed as negative then so be it

People are put off anyway so it hardly matters what I do, I simply can't be someone that I am not. I'd love to be that sunny happy go lucky guy but it just isn't me, I live with huge regrets each and every day. Sure I can be positive right until reality hits.

 

If I could say just for once I achieved what I set out to, it would be OK but everything I really want always ends is disappointment, that's not negative, its the honest truth.

[ZA Dater]

ZA how it should have gone is

 

Her: lets go for a drink

You: Sure sounds great

Her: fantastic

 

You are installing negatives and making it hard for people to interact with you.

 

So you don't drink. **NEWFLASH** bars also sell non alcoholic drinks and even tea and coffee these days!

 

Stop being so damned negative ALL the time. Its draining not just to you but to EVERYONE around you.

 

10 years of negativity is going to bring you down! 10 years of negativity is also going to make others feel glum about you. Its an aura that will surround you and put people off. Change it. Vamp it up with some positive thinking.

 

Her interest totally waned when I mentioned I don't drink. In fact she said " oh ok i think i am too wild for you" conversation died soon after.

[Toodaloo]

Her interest totally waned when I mentioned I don't drink. In fact she said " oh ok i think i am too wild for you" conversation died soon after.

 

Which is my point!

 

Just because you don't drink doesn't mean that you are not an interesting guy. People can be perfectly exciting sober.

 

However if you make it sound like a curse (which you did) rather than just one of those things (which you didn't) its going to put others off.

 

Negativity breeds negative responses.

 

Its not what your saying its the way in which you are saying it.

 

Its not a case of being anything other than who you are its about projecting your positives rather than the things that YOU perceive as negatives.

[ZA Dater]

Which is my point!

 

Just because you don't drink doesn't mean that you are not an interesting guy. People can be perfectly exciting sober.

 

However if you make it sound like a curse (which you did) rather than just one of those things (which you didn't) its going to put others off.

 

Negativity breeds negative responses.

 

Its not what your saying its the way in which you are saying it.

 

Its not a case of being anything other than who you are its about projecting your positives rather than the things that YOU perceive as negatives.

 

Oh well. I wasn't that interested in her anyway.

 

I can't find any positives that impress anyone, yes I try but its never what people want, even when the positive is a common interest. Sure I can list my achievements but again they aren't what people seem to want based on fact they don't impress anyone.

 

Fact is I am so far behind the learning curve experience ratio nobody who has any sort of option would pick me over a more experienced guy. Not negativity but common logic.

[Toodaloo]

ZA

 

You might not see it but as I read that post I heaved a resigned sign and shook my head.

 

The tone of it is just "drag your feet through the mud" negative. You even managed to make your positives negative!

 

The greatest change you need to make is to actually start liking yourself enough to accept you as you are.

 

Who would you rather chat to Eyeore or Roo?

 

Be more Roo...

[ZA Dater]

ZA

 

You might not see it but as I read that post I heaved a resigned sign and shook my head.

 

The tone of it is just "drag your feet through the mud" negative. You even managed to make your positives negative!

 

The greatest change you need to make is to actually start liking yourself enough to accept you as you are.

 

Who would you rather chat to Eyeore or Roo?

 

Be more Roo...

 

Hard to accept who I am when others don't like who I am.

[Yummm]

This is so hard to read.

 

Mate, you're getting SOLID advice from Toodaloo. Like attracts like, positive people will FEED off your positive energy if you portray it. Not in a single post do you portray positivity.

 

Why you are trying to justify your 'I am me' approach to that girl who asked you for a drink really baffles me. No need to sweep it off by convincing yourself 'ah I wasn't that into her so it didn't matter', because what if you genuinely were interested in her? You would have messed up either way.

 

You don't drink, perfectly fine, but the approach could have been very different in that moment. Should have told her you'd love to go out for a drink and get to know her.

 

You don't need to change who you are, be yourself, but portraying yourself in a positive matter SHOULD be yourself, it shows that you have some oomph, it shows that even if you have issues you are actively trying to make yourself better (hence why you're here saying you have no GF) but it seems like you don't take any advice and put it to good use.

 

Really trying to be constructive here so please don't take it the wrong way, just try snap out of it and change up your attitude just a LITTLE bit and it really will go far.

 

Hard to accept who I am when others don't like who I am.

 

You need to flip this around mate.

 

As cliche as it sounds and you've probably heard it a million times before... How will anyone else like you and your attitude if you don't like it yourself?

[ZA Dater]

This is so hard to read.

 

Mate, you're getting SOLID advice from Toodaloo. Like attracts like, positive people will FEED off your positive energy if you portray it. Not in a single post do you portray positivity.

 

Why you are trying to justify your 'I am me' approach to that girl who asked you for a drink really baffles me. No need to sweep it off by convincing yourself 'ah I wasn't that into her so it didn't matter', because what if you genuinely were interested in her? You would have messed up either way.

 

You don't drink, perfectly fine, but the approach could have been very different in that moment. Should have told her you'd love to go out for a drink and get to know her.

 

You don't need to change who you are, be yourself, but portraying yourself in a positive matter SHOULD be yourself, it shows that you have some oomph, it shows that even if you have issues you are actively trying to make yourself better (hence why you're here saying you have no GF) but it seems like you don't take any advice and put it to good use.

 

Really trying to be constructive here so please don't take it the wrong way, just try snap out of it and change up your attitude just a LITTLE bit and it really will go far.

 

 

 

You need to flip this around mate.

 

As cliche as it sounds and you've probably heard it a million times before... How will anyone else like you and your attitude if you don't like it yourself?

 

Sure the advice is solid but how do I implement it? Each time i try the result is the same. At the end of the day one needs to make decisions and those decision s to lesser and greater degrees are based on experiences.

 

The only thing I ever wish for is for someone I like to like me.

[ZA Dater]

This is so hard to read.

 

Mate, you're getting SOLID advice from Toodaloo. Like attracts like, positive people will FEED off your positive energy if you portray it. Not in a single post do you portray positivity.

 

Why you are trying to justify your 'I am me' approach to that girl who asked you for a drink really baffles me. No need to sweep it off by convincing yourself 'ah I wasn't that into her so it didn't matter', because what if you genuinely were interested in her? You would have messed up either way.

 

You don't drink, perfectly fine, but the approach could have been very different in that moment. Should have told her you'd love to go out for a drink and get to know her.

 

You don't need to change who you are, be yourself, but portraying yourself in a positive matter SHOULD be yourself, it shows that you have some oomph, it shows that even if you have issues you are actively trying to make yourself better (hence why you're here saying you have no GF) but it seems like you don't take any advice and put it to good use.

 

Really trying to be constructive here so please don't take it the wrong way, just try snap out of it and change up your attitude just a LITTLE bit and it really will go far.

 

 

 

You need to flip this around mate.

 

As cliche as it sounds and you've probably heard it a million times before... How will anyone else like you and your attitude if you don't like it yourself?

 

Bold point 1: why then am I walking around in clothes I don't like because "girls like guys in clothes like that", have a hair style I don't like "girls like guys with hair that isn't shaved short".

 

I read here and I read here a lot and there are guys who can approach people, guys who are apparently much better looking than me and yet they are no more successful than I am? Sorry maybe I am missing something here but objectively this seems to be a next to impossible challenge for someone like me with no experience at all.

 

Should I pretend I am a stud, should I pretend I am super confident, should I pretend I am many things in the hope people will perhaps like that more? That's what I read into a change of attitude.

[LookAtThisPOst]

ZA

 

You might not see it but as I read that post I heaved a resigned sign and shook my head.

 

The tone of it is just "drag your feet through the mud" negative. You even managed to make your positives negative!

 

The greatest change you need to make is to actually start liking yourself enough to accept you as you are.

 

Who would you rather chat to Eyeore or Roo?

 

Be more Roo...

 

I had sympathy for ZA Dater, until a woman actually asked him out and STILL he turns her down? Hate to say it, but am starting to not feel sorry for him now.

 

That was pretty much a deal breaker for me to related to him when that post came across my screen.

[ZA Dater]

I had sympathy for ZA Dater, until a woman actually asked him out and STILL he turns her down? Hate to say it, but am starting to not feel sorry for him now.

 

That was pretty much a deal breaker for me to related to him when that post came across my screen.

 

Firstly she never asked me out I suggested meeting up to which she suggested lets go for a drink. She is a 35y with two kids, not exactly what I am looking for anyway.

 

The day someone asks me out is the day the world stops turning.

[Toodaloo]

Hard to accept who I am when others don't like who I am.

 

ZA if you can't see how negative and off putting comments like this are then you are blind.

 

If you don't like yourself or feel good about yourself why the heck should anyone else?

 

This statement alone screams self pity, woe is me and desperation.

 

NONE of which are attractive.

 

Have you ever considered that others are not accepting you because on a subconscience level you are letting them know that you don't accept yourself?

 

I drive a clapped out old banger, I have blobby bits, I am FAR from perfect. But I don't care - I am who I am and I LIKE who I am. This comes across in everything I do and how I present myself. THAT is why people like me.

[JuneJulySeptember]

Re wording it and presenting it in a different manner is not the same thing as lying about your traits and falsely advertising yourself just as quick bait to get dates. The counselor wasn't suggesting you do that at all. If you said something like "Prefer going to Starbucks and reading a book over engaging in awkward mundane conversations elsewhere"

 

And she tailored it to say "avid reader and thoroughly enjoy a latte and the classic (insert authors name here) novels"..... You're both saying the same thing, she's just making it look/sound more appealing.

 

That's part of the thing though. I avoid pretension. I want 'down to Earth'. That is my #1 requirement. I don't care about your job, how much $ you make, but I DO care that you are that.

 

"I'm an avid reader and thoroughly enjoy a [carmel macchiatto] while enjoying the musings of [Malcolm Gladwell] on the hierarchy of life."

 

Not only does that sound pretentious, that attracts somebody who expects me to wax philosophical about that subject which I mean to be honest, although I have read Gladwell [and if you haven't, google it, it will definitely earn you 'points' with the smart chicks], truth is, I would rather watch football and drink beer.

 

That is what I enjoy doing. I might as well enjoy life, I'm half dead ya know.

 

But really, I wasn't trying to make a federal case out of it. I agree with you guys that coming on here and whining is the worst thing you can do.

Edited October 14, 2015 by JuneJulySeptember

[ZA Dater]

ZA if you can't see how negative and off putting comments like this are then you are blind.

 

If you don't like yourself or feel good about yourself why the heck should anyone else?

 

This statement alone screams self pity, woe is me and desperation.

 

NONE of which are attractive.

 

Have you ever considered that others are not accepting you because on a subconscience level you are letting them know that you don't accept yourself?

 

I drive a clapped out old banger, I have blobby bits, I am FAR from perfect. But I don't care - I am who I am and I LIKE who I am. This comes across in everything I do and how I present myself. THAT is why people like me.

 

Probably very true!

 

Extremely hard to change though, I will be the first to admit I am cynical and bitter. Should I be, perhaps yes and perhaps no. Do I think I can do better, yes. Do I think its going to make much of a difference, not really because I am essentially trying to build a house on ground which isn't flat, it will fall down each and every time.

 

The problem here is simple, a total lack of confidence, new clothes, don't really make me feel any better if anything I feel more self conscious, the problem I just feel more and more self conscious. Essentially I have always been happy to be an individual but I told I need to be more like other people and that's incredibly hard when you spend 15 odd years being who you want to be without worrying about anyone else.

 

Fact is though its the individual thing that has ruined my chances. I bang on about the people I have liked, all of them were different from the norm in some way or other, perhaps for me that is the true wow, someone who is different in some tangible or intangible way.

 

I consciously decided mid teen years I wanted to be my own person and be who I wanted to be instead of following anyone else.

 

Today I find myself a lonely virgin misfit.

[Toodaloo]

Do I think its going to make much of a difference, not really because I am essentially trying to build a house on ground which isn't flat, it will fall down each and every time.

 

Today I find myself a lonely virgin misfit.

 

Thats why people have homes that have different floor levels... Simple solution.

 

Well thats your opinion of yourself and if that is who you want to be then please carry on because after a while (a short while) this self pitying gets tedious. If this is what it would be like being in a relationship with you I can see why women are running for the hills even if you do look like some greek god...

 

We keep telling you how to change your perspective and attitude. We keep trying to help you. Do you know beating your head against a brick wall burns around 150 calories an hour? Right now I am thinking that would be far more productive.

 

Carry on like this ZA and you will find yourself a 40 or 50yr old virgin...

[JuneJulySeptember]

 

Today I find myself a lonely virgin misfit.

 

I actually think when people say stuff like this, it is attractive.

 

Like if I met a woman and she said "I don't think I'm that attractive, not too many guys like me." I would think it is very attractive. It implies groundedness and humility, and also I might assume I don't have to fight off 30 other men to get a date.

 

If I met a woman and she said something like "I'm attractive and a desirable woman." it would be a turn off.

 

But I think I'm probably in the 5% minority with something like this. I had a thread about this before if I recall and most people think self-deprecating behavior is unattractive.

 

Just watch it guess. Make sure it's not too obvious.

[WomenWubber]

If you are a "sad virgin loser" and have rejected a woman, then you're being too picky.

 

Have you thought about dating sad virgin losers such as yourself? (believe me there are)

[ZA Dater]

If you are a "sad virgin loser" and have rejected a woman, then you're being too picky.

 

Have you thought about dating sad virgin losers such as yourself? (believe me there are)

 

 

No thanks.

[serial muse]

 

Should I pretend I am a stud, should I pretend I am super confident, should I pretend I am many things in the hope people will perhaps like that more? That's what I read into a change of attitude.

 

Honestly, I think the thing that you need to "pretend" is that you like other people. My sense is that mostly you look down on them. That's certainly the sense I get from your posts here. You veil that in this "nobody likes me" talk, but what you really mean is that you don't like anybody. Well, hardly anybody.

 

THAT is a turnoff. What Toodaloo is saying about a positive attitude is directly related to my point as well: People respond positively to positives and negatively to negatives. You're so damn focused on what people think of you that you don't realize that you are very likely projecting all kinds of dislike out there, and THAT is what they are responding to.

 

Rethink your superior attitude. That's my advice to you. Look deeper, and be less shallow. You seem to assume an awful lot about people, and you use that as fuel to decide they're not interesting or smart enough for you. Well, look deeper, and find things to like rather than dislike. Just as an exercise at first, perhaps. No one's saying you have to marry a person you go on a date with. But at least try spending that date -- even if it's not a love match!!!1!! -- focusing on pleasant things, and see where that takes you.

Edited October 14, 2015 by serial muse