Thanks everyone, I am done.

[lino]

If you don't like those clothes you bought, sell them on ebay and recoup some of the money.

 

Lesson learnt... Never clothe or style yourself specifically for someone other than yourself.

 

I was saying before this also... Improve yourself for yourself only if it's what you want to do.

Can't stress enough, women will leave you at some point for ridiculous reasons. Don't ever change anything about yourself just for women.

 

And again, do try to make friendships with men who are successful with women, they'll teach you a lot more than you'll learn in this message board.

 

You mentioned a woman you recently went out with? Even if it's not your style, you do need to rack up some experience as inexperienced men are considered one notch above broke men on women's attraction scale unfortunately.

Not pleasant but the world is like that.

[Popsicle]

Your pain is palpable. I'm sorry you're having such a hard time. I hope you feel better somehow, someway soon. *hugs*

[ZA Dater]

If you don't like those clothes you bought, sell them on ebay and recoup some of the money.

 

Lesson learnt... Never clothe or style yourself specifically for someone other than yourself.

 

I was saying before this also... Improve yourself for yourself only if it's what you want to do.

Can't stress enough, women will leave you at some point for ridiculous reasons. Don't ever change anything about yourself just for women.

 

And again, do try to make friendships with men who are successful with women, they'll teach you a lot more than you'll learn in this message board.

 

You mentioned a woman you recently went out with? Even if it's not your style, you do need to rack up some experience as inexperienced men are considered one notch above broke men on women's attraction scale unfortunately.

Not pleasant but the world is like that.

 

You are so right. I will donate the clothes to an orphanage that way at least someone benefits.

 

Unfortunately my absolute desire to try get something lead to me just doing what I was told, same with the hair style and being caught up in false positivity. Deep down i knew clothes wouldn't suddenly make me attractive.

 

My friend is successful with women, he has a lovely wife and before that very nice gfs. Unfortunately he and I are not on the same page when it comes to ladies. He has a gift of charm and can sell icd to a polar bear.

 

Not much I can do about inexperience but thanks for your honesty its appreciated. As i say this hurtful experience has taught me much, more about how people perceive me as well the fact it's best not to dream.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

thought i'd post this, surprisingly there are huge female FA's:Who is the oldest person you know in PERSON who has never had a girlfriend/boyfriend? - GirlsAskGuys

[ZA Dater]

If you don't like those clothes you bought, sell them on ebay and recoup some of the money.

 

Lesson learnt... Never clothe or style yourself specifically for someone other than yourself.

 

I was saying before this also... Improve yourself for yourself only if it's what you want to do.

Can't stress enough, women will leave you at some point for ridiculous reasons. Don't ever change anything about yourself just for women.

 

And again, do try to make friendships with men who are successful with women, they'll teach you a lot more than you'll learn in this message board.

 

You mentioned a woman you recently went out with? Even if it's not your style, you do need to rack up some experience as inexperienced men are considered one notch above broke men on women's attraction scale unfortunately.

Not pleasant but the world is like that.

 

My question here is what is worth changing to become attractive, where does one draw the line as to what should be changed and what should not be changed?

[ZA Dater]

Your behavior and outlook in this thread perfectly explain why you have not had any success with dating.

 

After pages and pages of helpful, useful, proven methods of advice and effort from dozens of complete strangers to help reinforce positivity and motivation in hopes you'd take advantage of all that support and guidance, its gotten to a point where you've managed to offput nearly everyone who was once on your side.

 

Best of luck with wherever you go from here.

 

Proven on what basis exactly?

 

Tell me how you find positivity in constant rejection, I am asking this question again because everyone says find positivity but nobody can say how?

 

Motivation, surely you jest, how on earth does one motivate oneself when every time the same thing happens.

 

As my friend said to me, "only losers sit in the corner and mope", you know what, that's exactly what I am because a loser is also someone who never has any success.

 

I fit both bills perfectly.

[Teraskas]

Usually I'm the "silent / observing" type on these forums, but this thread struck a chord with me.

 

ZA, I am more or less in the same position as you...

 

With the exception that I'm 23. (A week away from 24)

Thus far, I too have faced years of rejection. 4 years so far.

Constantly being generalised as "too young" or on gender for mistakes other men have made which I have nothing to do with.

(I.e. All men are predators, all men are bad, men only think about sex, men only want to impregnate a woman and move over to the next, etc.)

For me, it's considerably hard as mentally I'm on the level of someone in their 30s.

Yet when I approach women between the ages of 23-30, I'm always (to my frustration) given the "you're too young" argument.

Seems that apparently here in Belgium we've already progressed to the point of America medium in terms of shallowness.

 

I know what it feels like to experience constant rejection, women who ultimately aren't interested, etc.

 

I look for my positivity and confidence not in the dating realm, but in my hobbies and family.

When I'm tooling on oldtimers, I know what I'm doing and can easily spot/fix problems. Things like that give me confidence.

Another part of that hobby is WW 2 reenactment.

I draw from positivity there, as countless women always want to take a picture of me or with me.

That in itself gives me a feeling of positivity. One that I am finally good (looking. ) enough for women as a whole.

 

Even though after all these years I have grown cynical and bitter, I have simply learned how to do a better job at hiding it.

 

Bottom line is: Look for positivity elsewhere. Hobbies or generally other things that make you happy.

(Heck, you could even change your hobbies for something new, should you desire.)

Trying to find positivity in dating has proven to be pointless for me.

Over the years, I have put a steel armour around my heart, let rejection slide off my shoulders and never get too invested initially...despite how much I might like that person if I didn't hold back.

But hopefully someday, that cycle will end with acceptance...and someday we'll be redeemed.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Teraskas

[ZA Dater]

Usually I'm the "silent / observing" type on these forums, but this thread struck a chord with me.

 

ZA, I am more or less in the same position as you...

 

With the exception that I'm 23. (A week away from 24)

Thus far, I too have faced years of rejection. 4 years so far.

Constantly being generalised as "too young" or on gender for mistakes other men have made which I have nothing to do with.

(I.e. All men are predators, all men are bad, men only think about sex, men only want to impregnate a woman and move over to the next, etc.)

For me, it's considerably hard as mentally I'm on the level of someone in their 30s.

Yet when I approach women between the ages of 23-30, I'm always (to my frustration) given the "you're too young" argument.

Seems that apparently here in Belgium we've already progressed to the point of America medium in terms of shallowness.

 

I know what it feels like to experience constant rejection, women who ultimately aren't interested, etc.

 

I look for my positivity and confidence not in the dating realm, but in my hobbies and family.

When I'm tooling on oldtimers, I know what I'm doing and can easily spot/fix problems. Things like that give me confidence.

Another part of that hobby is WW 2 reenactment.

I draw from positivity there, as countless women always want to take a picture of me or with me.

That in itself gives me a feeling of positivity. One that I am finally good (looking. ) enough for women as a whole.

 

Even though after all these years I have grown cynical and bitter, I have simply learned how to do a better job at hiding it.

 

Bottom line is: Look for positivity elsewhere. Hobbies or generally other things that make you happy.

(Heck, you could even change your hobbies for something new, should you desire.)

Trying to find positivity in dating has proven to be pointless for me.

Over the years, I have put a steel armour around my heart, let rejection slide off my shoulders and never get too invested initially...despite how much I might like that person if I didn't hold back.

But hopefully someday, that cycle will end with acceptance...and someday we'll be redeemed.

 

You make an incredible good point about hiding it, I am going to try that. As for the other points, you sound a lot like a male version of the subject of this thread.

 

I'd be lying if I said I wasn't curious as to who has left her so smitten.

[Toodaloo]

I sat down, thought about it. Re read this thread and you know what the real issue is I simply don't meet people. Had a chat to my friend, yes he didn't try sell anything good about me because apparently I am too negative about everything.

 

I have to say that a. you have a good friend there who is honest and truthful with you. and b. Everyone here can see that is you main down fall.

 

Yes, the advice here is solid but it simply ignores the fact I couldn't get it to work with someone I did have things in common with, that in itself is extremely rare.

 

So work on expanding your hobbies and interests. Go and do the things you enjoy. Try new things. Don't just think well this is me and thats that. Challenge yourself to expand, develop and grow rather than limiting yourself like this. I know a VERY good looking guy who struggles and its simply because as you get to know him he is as boring as can be and has this "thing" that because he is bored someone should come along and entertain him. Yes he gets laid but he is still alone, lonely, unhappy and above all bored as hell...

 

I am still waiting for someone to tell me how to be positive about dating when none of it has been positive? How do I do that, simply its easier just to remove the entire idea and try to just fill the void with other things, very difficult the way I am feeling now.

 

ZA. I didn't have anyone tell me that me are in general great after my ex abandoned me dead and worse had a go at me when he discovered I had survived because I was such an inconvenience to him... I worked it out for myself. I also worked out that actually I am worth far more than he thinks I am. Instead of allowing myself to get low, I picked myself up and pulled myself up. I was not supposed to be here. When the doctors brought me back they told me to put my affairs in order because I only had a few months longer. Sod that! I wanted to live so I am! They still have no clue how I got ill nor why I am walking around now, much happier and healthier than before its called being bloody minded in a positive way.

 

In many ways I think ibwas strung along by my inherent inability to give up, could I become something she may like or other people may like? I truly do not know, it seems like a shot in the dark to me. Unfortunately I don't really feel I don't know how to change, or what to change to.

 

No you are being strung along by your inherent negativity and refusal to see things as they are. Your friends have tried to help. They tried to encourage a woman who had no interest in you to take an interest. They tried to help you feel more "hip" and "happening". Time to change your thinking stop making up stories in your head and instead face reality and only waste your time, effort and most importantly your emotions on someone who will reciprocate.

 

Perhaps the other hurtful thing is my friends were not honest, they don't even like me either, hence its easier to set me up for faliure rather than success.

 

Utter balls. They know how hurt you are by all of this and they are trying to help you but you are refusing to open your eyes or take your head out of the sand. It is impossible to set someone who constantly puts themselves down. Its impossible to get your other friends to enjoy the company of someone who is miserable all the time.

 

It's extremely tough to realise you are not perceived how you think you are perceived.

 

Correct. It is. Right now you are perceived as the sad lonely man who has no hope because he simply doesn't believe in himself. Thats all. Its not because he isn't good looking enough or is inadequate in some way its simply because of this constant negativity - its exhausting... Only you can change that

 

In short I don't know what to do because nothing is making me feel better right now and I don't know if its even worth trying to fundamentally change who I am or if its even possible. In short incentive is there to change? Apparently there is none because I can't think of a way to overcome what I am or how to explain why I have no experience and why I am hurting so much.

 

If you want to stop hurting yourself you need to learn how to be more positive but also learn how to accept that its not always peaches and cream out there. The right girl for you may not be what you think so you need to learn how to give others a chance. You need to learn how to turn negatives into positives and learn from that. You need to learn how to expand your horizons.

You know it would been different if someone had said to me ," OK you like her, why not try this or try that" I was encouraged by said friends to pursue her, yet when I needed guidance the most and advice the most it was never given.

 

Yes they did. They tried to help you "change" into what she would find attractive. The whole point is though is that this girl was not all you made her out to be. Somewhere along the line she would disappoint you. Perhaps your friends knew this so didn't want you to get hurt and so were not as enthusiastic as you wanted them to be for the simple reason that they do not want to encourage you to set yourself up to fail! Quit blaming them.

 

I don't know, maybe I over rated my friends who apparently think very little of me anyway. I am simply told " oh it happens to everyone " sure it does but others at least have some success but apparently I an too negative so I will never have success.

 

You have tried with fewer women than I have with the men I have been meeting. You have allowed every "no" to fester into something more and bring you down instead of accepting that its time to move forward.

 

Answer me this.

 

Two women. Both equals in every way except one smiles and says hello and engages with people. The other stands in the corner looking miserable.

 

Which one are you going to want?

 

Chances are you will not even notice the one in the corner.

 

Same principles apply to you.

[ZA Dater]

You have tried with fewer women than I have with the men I have been meeting. You have allowed every "no" to fester into something more and bring you down instead of accepting that its time to move forward.

 

Answer me this.

 

Two women. Both equals in every way except one smiles and says hello and engages with people. The other stands in the corner looking miserable.

 

Which one are you going to want?

 

Chances are you will not even notice the one in the corner.

 

Same principles apply to you.

 

Firstly I commend you on not giving up! That's inspiring, keep going!

 

Let me start at the bottom

 

"They tried to change you into something she may find attractive" I am sorry but I must be feeling stupid today or everyday but I thought this too but clearly that was never the idea at all because she isn't single now, so are you proposing I chase someone who isn't single? Sorry because I don't understand?

 

I am sorry but I have definite likes and I am not prepared to compromise on that, that for me will be saying "oh that will do" and I simply cannot do that, I'd rather have nothing than have something I don't want.

 

How does being realistic be construed as being negative? I am not going to say the sky is blue if its cloudy? I am not going to say something is nice if I don't think it is. If I am honest negativity has grown due to unending constant disappointment, yes I have done well at some things, achieved a few things but its just not enough and the most negative thing in my life, the thing which poisons almost everything else is a total inability to find a gf. I have a lot to give, I really think I do, I can talk about almost anything, I am happy to do almost anything and as I said before for this person I would change to anything because I can see potential, with everything I look for potential and a certain degree of harmony.

 

Third last comment is a total almost exact copy of what a friend told me.

 

I will contend that did nothing of the sort to try and get her to take an interest in me, there is next to zero tangible evidence that this ever happened, I was encouraged to take an interest in her but the reverse never happened. Another sore point with me.

 

I am boring too, nobody younger than 30 has any of the same interests that I do, or very few do. I sit down and try and talk to people and all they are interested in is last nights party and who drank too much. With K, she is interested in lots of things, can talk about lots of things, like me she writes, like me she speaks well and there is just interesting. Maybe I am boring, that's probably an issue too.

 

The unfortunate thing about me is when I want something I don't give up until I get it and for many that's an outstanding trait to have but for me I see it as a difficult trait to have because I really don't know what to do now? Stands to reason why I all through academic life I walked away with the perseverance prize.

 

Do I

: build myself up and try to woo her again should I ever get the opportunity, create the best me I can on the hope I get another chance, this seems like fairly tale idea to me. This pretty much ties in with the above paragraph.

: carry this hurt around and disguise it as best I can (going to have to do this anyway)

: remove myself from society so I don't need to feel like a misfit (this is a perception I have which really ties into the way many people look and interact with me)

: simply construct a life around work and allow myself no distractions where I feel lonely.

: do I subscribe into the theory one can change and be better and get another chance? I'd have to be an optimist to get this right but that's not an impossibility.

 

I really don't know what to do to be honest, giving up an idea is easy, giving up on an ideal isn't nearly as easy.

 

In part what has shattered me here was I was/am trying to build a better me with the hope of having a chance again, the hope and the chance is now gone.

[Toodaloo]

ZA - she doesn't want you. Leave her alone and concentrate on others.

 

So its hard. Welcome to my world. Welcome to Gaetas world, to Neowulfs world and a 100 others here who are all putting themselves out there. All of us equally as disappointed and upset when it doesn't work out, all of us equally have needs in a partner that are totally different to yours or any other persons and all equally hard to find.

 

You say you don't give up but that is EXACTLY what you are doing.

 

If you think you may be boring then go and expand your interests. Boring is as boring does. If you want to try a new look go for it. If you are comfortable in your chinos then stick with your chinos.

 

You are NOT being realistic. You are being negative and pessimistic.

 

A realistic attitude would be that its a shame you didn't match up with this girl but there may be others. With that attitude you would give yourself a couple of days to get over it then you would get up and get going to try and find ways of meeting that special someone.

 

A negative and pessimistic view is to go completely over the top decide that you are awful and not worthy and give up...

 

Which are you going to be here ZA? Which are you going to be?

 

"Do I

: build myself up and try to woo her again should I ever get the opportunity, create the best me I can on the hope I get another chance, this seems like fairly tale idea to me. This pretty much ties in with the above paragraph.

: carry this hurt around and disguise it as best I can (going to have to do this anyway)

: remove myself from society so I don't need to feel like a misfit (this is a perception I have which really ties into the way many people look and interact with me)

: simply construct a life around work and allow myself no distractions where I feel lonely.

: do I subscribe into the theory one can change and be better and get another chance? I'd have to be an optimist to get this right but that's not an impossibility."

 

You do none of these things. Instead you move on. Your far too hooked on one woman. There are billions out there. Now get up. Get your best chinos on and get out there and smile. Engage with people, talk to them.

[ZA Dater]

ZA - she doesn't want you. Leave her alone and concentrate on others.

 

So its hard. Welcome to my world. Welcome to Gaetas world, to Neowulfs world and a 100 others here who are all putting themselves out there. All of us equally as disappointed and upset when it doesn't work out, all of us equally have needs in a partner that are totally different to yours or any other persons and all equally hard to find.

 

You say you don't give up but that is EXACTLY what you are doing.

 

If you think you may be boring then go and expand your interests. Boring is as boring does. If you want to try a new look go for it. If you are comfortable in your chinos then stick with your chinos.

 

You are NOT being realistic. You are being negative and pessimistic.

 

A realistic attitude would be that its a shame you didn't match up with this girl but there may be others. With that attitude you would give yourself a couple of days to get over it then you would get up and get going to try and find ways of meeting that special someone.

 

A negative and pessimistic view is to go completely over the top decide that you are awful and not worthy and give up...

 

Which are you going to be here ZA? Which are you going to be?

 

"Do I

: build myself up and try to woo her again should I ever get the opportunity, create the best me I can on the hope I get another chance, this seems like fairly tale idea to me. This pretty much ties in with the above paragraph.

: carry this hurt around and disguise it as best I can (going to have to do this anyway)

: remove myself from society so I don't need to feel like a misfit (this is a perception I have which really ties into the way many people look and interact with me)

: simply construct a life around work and allow myself no distractions where I feel lonely.

: do I subscribe into the theory one can change and be better and get another chance? I'd have to be an optimist to get this right but that's not an impossibility."

 

You do none of these things. Instead you move on. Your far too hooked on one woman. There are billions out there. Now get up. Get your best chinos on and get out there and smile. Engage with people, talk to them.

 

I am boring in the context of what society finds interesting. Ibrefyse to believe a better me wouldn't at least be good enough to be her friend. Today I spent a massive amount of money on something I love, make me feel a bit better but also maybe a way to try woo her and meet others.

 

Unfortunately she is the standard against all other will be judged, not fair but really she is my bucket list person. I need to emphasise that it's her personality.

 

I really don't know what to wear that people will like, my friend says ladies don't like chinos.

 

You right I won't give up but I am not giving up on this ideal either, if I have to wait make myself better and then try again with her then so be it, that challenge will give me motivation to be better and lift my head up. Someone else said sometime to me. "J because she doesn't like you now isnt the end, when ibfirst met my future husband I didn't like him either but after quite a while he really grew on me a lot" I take some inspiration from that.

 

My mistake is being impatient, you may not agree with me but there is something special here and I am not prepared to give up on that. If someone else similarly wow comes along great but for now as you say I need to heal, think positive thoughts and not give up on what i want.

 

I would also like to thank you, your posts have really helped me today.

[impatiently_patient]

You know, skimming the thread here, I've got to say, I've seen this spiral before and a lot of it comes from the "well meaning helpers" not knowing the person and his or her individual context at all. It turns into a lot of popular advice (which isn't the same thing as popular solutions) and then berating the OP for not taking it (or they MIGHT be things he tried that didn't work for him, because again: advice versus what really works) for shooting them down. I've been there. It's not to frustrate the repliers, it's looking for the right solutions. Don't like how he's reacting to your suggestions, don't participate in the thread. Simple as that.

 

That said, I'll put in my two cents as a reference for him:

 

- Confidence is complete and utter bulls___. It's crap advice and I swear people say it because: 1. it sounds like the right thing to say, or 2. They're attractive and charismatic individuals that could fart and get good results. Frankly, I'm a confident guy... not going to pretend I could land a plane when I can't... but anything reasonably within the scope of my capabilities I go into with a positive outlook on outcome. This has never done s___ to garner any success with dating. Heck, I'm more knowledgeable, capable, and socially adept as I grow older and my ability to attract women has done nothing but dwindle.

 

- I'm not anti- join a club, try your church/cult (we're not all religious, thank you), volunteer, yada, yada, yada... but I don't REALLY know too many people who met their S.O. there. I don't know any, really. This is like the number on go-to advice and I just don't think it's all that great. Meetups too, while I like going and it's fun to meet new people, aren't exactly a haven for available and eligible women in my experience... and the singles ones have very specific demographics. Great if you're a divorcé / empty nester. Forget it otherwise.

 

- Bars aren't as bad as everyone says. One of the nice things is you can target your crowd a bit. I'm a muso / gentrified type and tend to be more comfortable in the more hipster / rock crowd joints over douchebag dance places. People are a little more loosened up thanks to the alcohol. That said, they still mostly suck, as they're still pretty cliquey environments with no real driver for social interaction necessarily, and too drunk women are impossible to connect with.

 

- Online dating is the biggest mystery in the universe so far as I'm concerned. I've got more mental clarity on how the Higgs-Boson plays into M-theory. It's a ____ing miserable, frustrating, and largely fruitless. experience. That said, it's the only place I've gotten dates in the last six years or so... about one a year. So, yeah, there's that.

 

- OP: Forget the one girl. Just forget her. There is no point in wasting time, energy, thought, or breath on someone that's not into you. A lot of people will dismiss others on the stupidest s___ imaginable. Move on.

 

- Also, OP: I'd question the quality of your friends. Nice that they want to hook you up (not that they're obligated to), but lame if they don't know anything about you or what you're looking for in a mate. I've had friends, even ones I didn't know that we'll, offer to hook me up before but they had the sense to poll on what I was looking for. If you're not into big women and they're trying to set you up with big women, they're being d__ks, IMO.

 

Anyway, highly anecdotal, but my two cents.

[ZA Dater]

You know, skimming the thread here, I've got to say, I've seen this spiral before and a lot of it comes from the "well meaning helpers" not knowing the person and his or her individual context at all. It turns into a lot of popular advice (which isn't the same thing as popular solutions) and then berating the OP for not taking it (or they MIGHT be things he tried that didn't work for him, because again: advice versus what really works) for shooting them down. I've been there. It's not to frustrate the repliers, it's looking for the right solutions. Don't like how he's reacting to your suggestions, don't participate in the thread. Simple as that.

 

That said, I'll put in my two cents as a reference for him:

 

- Confidence is complete and utter bulls___. It's crap advice and I swear people say it because: 1. it sounds like the right thing to say, or 2. They're attractive and charismatic individuals that could fart and get good results. Frankly, I'm a confident guy... not going to pretend I could land a plane when I can't... but anything reasonably within the scope of my capabilities I go into with a positive outlook on outcome. This has never done s___ to garner any success with dating. Heck, I'm more knowledgeable, capable, and socially adept as I grow older and my ability to attract women has done nothing but dwindle.

 

- I'm not anti- join a club, try your church/cult (we're not all religious, thank you), volunteer, yada, yada, yada... but I don't REALLY know too many people who met their S.O. there. I don't know any, really. This is like the number on go-to advice and I just don't think it's all that great. Meetups too, while I like going and it's fun to meet new people, aren't exactly a haven for available and eligible women in my experience... and the singles ones have very specific demographics. Great if you're a divorcé / empty nester. Forget it otherwise.

 

- Bars aren't as bad as everyone says. One of the nice things is you can target your crowd a bit. I'm a muso / gentrified type and tend to be more comfortable in the more hipster / rock crowd joints over douchebag dance places. People are a little more loosened up thanks to the alcohol. That said, they still mostly suck, as they're still pretty cliquey environments with no real driver for social interaction necessarily, and too drunk women are impossible to connect with.

 

- Online dating is the biggest mystery in the universe so far as I'm concerned. I've got more mental clarity on how the Higgs-Boson plays into M-theory. It's a ____ing miserable, frustrating, and largely fruitless. experience. That said, it's the only place I've gotten dates in the last six years or so... about one a year. So, yeah, there's that.

 

- OP: Forget the one girl. Just forget her. There is no point in wasting time, energy, thought, or breath on someone that's not into you. A lot of people will dismiss others on the stupidest s___ imaginable. Move on.

 

- Also, OP: I'd question the quality of your friends. Nice that they want to hook you up (not that they're obligated to), but lame if they don't know anything about you or what you're looking for in a mate. I've had friends, even ones I didn't know that we'll, offer to hook me up before but they had the sense to poll on what I was looking for. If you're not into big women and they're trying to set you up with big women, they're being d__ks, IMO.

 

Anyway, highly anecdotal, but my two cents.

 

Really good post, thanks for taking the time to contribute to the thread.

 

You raise a lot of interesting points, ones I had thought about but not in this context.

 

Its true to say I do battle a bit with social confidence, its something I have decided to work on, setting myself targets and in all probability this is what let me down with this particular lady, she appears to be supremely socially confident so every time I spent time with her that confidence tended to rub off on me. I think confidence has its place but its perhaps not the deal winner some make it out to be but is certainly helps to have it.

 

Clubs and meet ups I have tried, ironically so has the subject of this thread and in the context of South Africa the people these clubs and meet ups attract are unfortunately not what I am looking for, it become extremely difficult to relate to them because there is no real common interest.

 

Online dating singularly the biggest breaker of my confidence, the biggest contributor to my apparent negative outlook, if I could do it again I wouldn't go there, mainly because of this and this may sound stupid.

 

Take tinder: I like everyone to see who likes me back, without question its never the people I actually find attractive but rather people I find severely unattractive, my mind then connects these matches to how appealing I am and my self confidence goes south very quickly "If that's the best I can attract"

 

Elite singles, the same thing, I am message many people and without doubt its always the ones I don't find attractive who reply.

 

Not going to forget her, she is too alluring for that but I am going to create a better me, read through this thread again and you know its easy to sit and mope, the easiest thing actually and I am guilty here of letting raw emotion trump logic. Sure, she found a guy on Tinder, clearly it works for some people but I do question Tinder as a dating platform and I know her own dating history is every bit as bad as my own, still I wish her the best but because there is some guy on the scene does not mean I cant built myself up, be better and compete. I think many here think I am being stupid doing this but its all down to feeling, when I see her I feel something, I don't know what it is but I am moved. Nobody has ever done that to me.

 

Your last point is perhaps so incredibly true, said friend is married to an amazing lady, she has the looks, the intelligence and a really warm heart but when he tries to set me up with people its based only on looks. For me looks are secondary to personality and maybe nobody is going to understand me but what I truly love is someone with a vibrant, confident personality....and a pretty face. She doesn't need to be a model and she shouldn't be large either but its all in the personality and she should be well spoken.

 

You see my friend puts no value on any of those things, for him its mostly looks so already there is a disconnect, the lady the subject of this thread, he cannot understand why I am besotted by her because she really isn't super pretty.

 

Could I get the model type, I don't really know but would I really want that?

 

I have my list drawn up of what I am going to do to make myself better, the first of which is to adopt winning thinking, the second of which is to bulk up considerably

[Qboro90]

Proven on what basis exactly?

 

Tell me how you find positivity in constant rejection, I am asking this question again because everyone says find positivity but nobody can say how?

 

Motivation, surely you jest, how on earth does one motivate oneself when every time the same thing happens.

 

As my friend said to me, "only losers sit in the corner and mope", you know what, that's exactly what I am because a loser is also someone who never has any success.

 

I fit both bills perfectly.

 

On the basis that these women who "reject" you in all likelihood are subjected to at least some insight into what a draining experience it would be to date you and have to listen to a constantly negative view on everything around your life and views. The side of you where you're absolutely unwavering in your own hopeless self degrading view, despite the multiple attempts to give you a different perspective-that's hopeful, being expressed in this thread are sure to also manifest themselves in the dates you go on and the interactions you have.

 

There's almost a nature to it where it comes off like you know how ridiculous what you're saying about being an all time loser who's ugly and should never try dating again etc is, yet you're so resigned to playing the part of this loser, and it's easier to just point at society's standards, the unfairness of it all, and leech of the positivity being replied to you.... Than to actually open yourself up to really addressing the areas you lack socially and emotionally.

 

You ask how does one motivate themselves with no success? In a previous reply I sent which you glazed over without addressing I gave you a way to do so.....

 

"You're not a victim. There are people who have real depression and issues in their lives.... With good reason. People who's spouses have cheated on them after 10 years of marriage, people who are fighting to work 2 jobs or find work in order to feed their 3 kids, soldiers who come home without limbs and PTSD, women who have had physically abusive boyfriends, men who find out their fiancée is having an affair a month before the wedding. Parents who's children are born with an illness or physical limitation....Those are actual problems. Not getting laid and being single at 31 is a problem I bet many would opt to trade with you. You're a healthy, self supported, self sufficient man who has actual lasting/caring friends and family. This is such an incredible blessing that sooooo many are desperate to have and you're asking what there is to be happy and positive about? Be freaking happy that you have the ability to even get rejected. There's always going to be a "tomorrow" and another shot to find her.

 

If you were a sports team that had been in existence for 50 years yet never been to the playoffs or won a championship..... Would you disband the organization and just resign yourself to thinking "well if we were gonna ever win then it would've happened by now" and quit the league? The Chicago Cubs haven't won a World Series in over 100 years yet their fan base is one of the most loyal and dedicate in all sports. They're constantly year after year not making it and having to say "there's always next year"... Then spring comes and they have the glimmer of hope that this year just might be their year!

 

You could look at it and say "this next girl just might be the one that shines some light on my life" and have that mindset each and every time. The hunt and the chase of finding someone who excites and interests you then the excitement of getting to know her and possibly learning that she likes you too is such a thrilling part of life. Even if it's baby steps, those are things to look forward to. The first time a girl flirts with you or looks at you in public and you're aware enough to recognize it and react properly/invitingly.

 

The girl I'm about to marry, I met her at 19 years old. Over the period of 6 years I would run into her or reach out to her and ask her out and/or try to get to develop a relationship only to be rejected every single time. While I dated other girls and enjoyed college and post college completely, I never would go more than 6 months without finding some way to talk to her or interact. Eventually I was able to soften her heart enough to give me a chance and she's gonna be my wife. Miss K could be just like that yet you're throwing a tantrum because it doesn't make sense why she doesn't see how much you have in common and therefore giving up on the visible progress you've made and any hope for the future.

 

 

Personally I think you need to leave K behind for good. Just because you think that it makes perfect sense for you two to date and she should like/want you because you get along and have so much in common and are likeminded personalities.... Doesn't mean she's ever going to want to hang out with you.

She's entitled to have 0 reason for just not liking you either. You're seeing it as if she's nonsensical and if she only gave you a chance she would see what a mistake it would be to not explore more with you. Only an obsessive and controlling person would resent or fault her for not feeling the way you want her to.

[BronzeAgeJaeger217]

thought this reddit posts would make you feel better:

 

 

 

 

[Qboro90]

Dating for you and women in general has become such an in depth and mind wracking process which is making it way more difficult and complicated than it actually is.

 

Unless your friends or colleagues set you up with someone you know or have spent time around then obviously it would be strangers who you would go out with right? You're never going to be able to read or understand or connect with someone's personality through OLD profiles or things of that nature. The first step whether you want to admit it or not is attraction physically. Don't accept or like back girls who you aren't physically attracted to whatsoever. If you're on the fence about their looks then it's probably worth it for you to take a shot.

 

When date night comes there is no preparation or thought that needs to go into what you will show her or sell to her as to why you're a great catch. You just get home from work, shower, put on some clothes that make your appearance look sharp and head to pick her up or meet at dinner. I went on dates and just enjoyed the process of getting to know a complete stranger and trying to find out how their mind works and what kind of a person they are.

 

 

Being staunchly against the most readily available places to meet women is just a dumb idea to be blunt. No need to go to clubs but bars and lounges where it's an older 25+ crowd are awesome places to interact and you would actually be able to talk and hear one another because places that cater to an older demographic aren't bumping techno at 2 am.

 

I don't know if you're just so morally conscious but screw it..why not just continue to date a girl you knew that you weren't fully into.... Just to enjoy having the company and trying to practice romance on a non risky/threatening person. Not saying you should take her to $2-300 dinners but having a girl over your place and cooking her dinner for a 2nd date or getting drinks with her and trying to get ahead physically is better than being on here Saturday night.

 

Here in America we call them "Slump Busters"... Just finding a partner that's not attractive to you whatsoever but doing it just to get off the schnide

[ZA Dater]

On the basis that these women who "reject" you in all likelihood are subjected to at least some insight into what a draining experience it would be to date you and have to listen to a constantly negative view on everything around your life and views. The side of you where you're absolutely unwavering in your own hopeless self degrading view, despite the multiple attempts to give you a different perspective-that's hopeful, being expressed in this thread are sure to also manifest themselves in the dates you go on and the interactions you have.

 

There's almost a nature to it where it comes off like you know how ridiculous what you're saying about being an all time loser who's ugly and should never try dating again etc is, yet you're so resigned to playing the part of this loser, and it's easier to just point at society's standards, the unfairness of it all, and leech of the positivity being replied to you.... Than to actually open yourself up to really addressing the areas you lack socially and emotionally.

 

You ask how does one motivate themselves with no success? In a previous reply I sent which you glazed over without addressing I gave you a way to do so.....

 

"You're not a victim. There are people who have real depression and issues in their lives.... With good reason. People who's spouses have cheated on them after 10 years of marriage, people who are fighting to work 2 jobs or find work in order to feed their 3 kids, soldiers who come home without limbs and PTSD, women who have had physically abusive boyfriends, men who find out their fiancée is having an affair a month before the wedding. Parents who's children are born with an illness or physical limitation....Those are actual problems. Not getting laid and being single at 31 is a problem I bet many would opt to trade with you. You're a healthy, self supported, self sufficient man who has actual lasting/caring friends and family. This is such an incredible blessing that sooooo many are desperate to have and you're asking what there is to be happy and positive about? Be freaking happy that you have the ability to even get rejected. There's always going to be a "tomorrow" and another shot to find her.

 

If you were a sports team that had been in existence for 50 years yet never been to the playoffs or won a championship..... Would you disband the organization and just resign yourself to thinking "well if we were gonna ever win then it would've happened by now" and quit the league? The Chicago Cubs haven't won a World Series in over 100 years yet their fan base is one of the most loyal and dedicate in all sports. They're constantly year after year not making it and having to say "there's always next year"... Then spring comes and they have the glimmer of hope that this year just might be their year!

 

You could look at it and say "this next girl just might be the one that shines some light on my life" and have that mindset each and every time. The hunt and the chase of finding someone who excites and interests you then the excitement of getting to know her and possibly learning that she likes you too is such a thrilling part of life. Even if it's baby steps, those are things to look forward to. The first time a girl flirts with you or looks at you in public and you're aware enough to recognize it and react properly/invitingly.

 

The girl I'm about to marry, I met her at 19 years old. Over the period of 6 years I would run into her or reach out to her and ask her out and/or try to get to develop a relationship only to be rejected every single time. While I dated other girls and enjoyed college and post college completely, I never would go more than 6 months without finding some way to talk to her or interact. Eventually I was able to soften her heart enough to give me a chance and she's gonna be my wife. Miss K could be just like that yet you're throwing a tantrum because it doesn't make sense why she doesn't see how much you have in common and therefore giving up on the visible progress you've made and any hope for the future.

 

 

Personally I think you need to leave K behind for good. Just because you think that it makes perfect sense for you two to date and she should like/want you because you get along and have so much in common and are likeminded personalities.... Doesn't mean she's ever going to want to hang out with you.

She's entitled to have 0 reason for just not liking you either. You're seeing it as if she's nonsensical and if she only gave you a chance she would see what a mistake it would be to not explore more with you. Only an obsessive and controlling person would resent or fault her for not feeling the way you want her to.

 

The first bold part is inspiration right there, thanks for sharing that! The second bold part, well there is no harm in me doing what you did, work at making myself better iron out the things I am not so good at, really work on myself and take the time to be better, things cant change over night and I need to give myself time to build up to who I want to be.

 

I am probably guilty of being impatient more than anything else.

 

I don't resent her at all, at this moment in time I am not what she wants, that's perfectly fine, I know I cam be considerably better than I am now, that's a given, this morning I sat down and made a list of all the things I am good at, each day I am going to read that list and equally each day I am going to try change the things about me I don't like so much, I am going to try be less stubborn and maybe the forum doesn't really see that but I think I am a nice genuine person.

 

In some ways I am fairly lucky, by virtue of mutual friends K and I will run into each other from time to time.

 

I think its often easier to see the negative than to see the positive and that's something I am really, really going to try hard to change, its not going to be an easy process but you know what if I don't try I don't know what I can actually be.

 

There are millions of cases where people have beaten the odds, there are some of this very forum, you yourself took a situation and turned it around and it sounds funny to say, me sitting half way around the world but I take a great degree of encouragement from reading those experiences. Everything I have done was about me beating the odds, working dam hard to get what I wanted for some reason I had been lulled to believe dating would be easier, in fact I need to apply myself the same way I did when I want about getting other things in my life.

[ZA Dater]

Dating for you and women in general has become such an in depth and mind wracking process which is making it way more difficult and complicated than it actually is.

 

Unless your friends or colleagues set you up with someone you know or have spent time around then obviously it would be strangers who you would go out with right? You're never going to be able to read or understand or connect with someone's personality through OLD profiles or things of that nature. The first step whether you want to admit it or not is attraction physically. Don't accept or like back girls who you aren't physically attracted to whatsoever. If you're on the fence about their looks then it's probably worth it for you to take a shot.

 

When date night comes there is no preparation or thought that needs to go into what you will show her or sell to her as to why you're a great catch. You just get home from work, shower, put on some clothes that make your appearance look sharp and head to pick her up or meet at dinner. I went on dates and just enjoyed the process of getting to know a complete stranger and trying to find out how their mind works and what kind of a person they are.

 

 

Being staunchly against the most readily available places to meet women is just a dumb idea to be blunt. No need to go to clubs but bars and lounges where it's an older 25+ crowd are awesome places to interact and you would actually be able to talk and hear one another because places that cater to an older demographic aren't bumping techno at 2 am.

 

I don't know if you're just so morally conscious but screw it..why not just continue to date a girl you knew that you weren't fully into.... Just to enjoy having the company and trying to practice romance on a non risky/threatening person. Not saying you should take her to $2-300 dinners but having a girl over your place and cooking her dinner for a 2nd date or getting drinks with her and trying to get ahead physically is better than being on here Saturday night.

 

Here in America we call them "Slump Busters"... Just finding a partner that's not attractive to you whatsoever but doing it just to get off the schnide

 

Good solid advice all of it. This overthinking I do does/has become a problem I am trying to root it out as best I can and in some ways its combined with the fact I am incredibly hard on myself, combine that with me constantly striving for some degree of perfection and you can easily see how I ended up typing much that I did in this thread.

 

Solid suggestion to try a "slump buster" but morally I cant really do it, I'd hate someone to do that to me so it would never be something I could contemplate doing to someone else. My other "problem" is I just go over the top when it comes to dates, sure there is a finite limit to financial resources but I like giving, its one thing I always like doing, hence my other thread of date ideas.

 

A lot of the way I react is also out of a degree of fear, most of the people I know are married and I haven't yet had a gf, it does worry me to a certain extent but perhaps it shouldn't really worry me?

 

Ultimately I need to realise this simple fact:

 

In order to attract someone, you need to wow them, just like I like being wowed they to would like to be wowed, be it in physical appearance or personality or a combination of both.

[impatiently_patient]

In order to attract someone, you need to wow them, just like I like being wowed they to would like to be wowed, be it in physical appearance or personality or a combination of both.

 

Yeah... I wish I could figure any of that out...

 

[Qboro90]

While I'm glad to hear you're taking the more rational and hopeful approach, it's important that you prepare that this isn't going to be a quick fix where you're guaranteed to see results in the coming days,weeks,month. We just saw you get into this same "gung-ho" plan only to have you drastically declare it all a massive failure and waste of time just because the 1 girl you have a huge crush on ended up dating someone 3 weeks into your lifestyle change.

 

While my story was meant to inspire and show you that being rejected doesn't mean you should give up.... I also was sure to mention that I did not spend those 6 years it took before my gf said yes to a date, miserable and thinking that I was a loser and not exploring and getting excited pursuing other options. I had other girlfriends during that 6 year period where I didn't think of her whatsoever. There's a big difference between that and what you're doing and how you're looking at it. Yes, I felt after meeting my current fiancée initially that she was different from the rest of the girls I had met up until that point and was a challenge for me..

 

Once she was my gf 6 years later she ended up telling me during a random convo that she started getting attracted when she saw either out at a bar or social event, or on social media, that I was always happy and enjoying the people I was with and people I could meet. The fact that I could ask her out, then go out and have a epic night out with my friends showed her that I didn't rely on her or a girl in general in order to be a happy and enjoyable person.

Every time in those 6 years when I'd see her , I acted and treated her like we had seen each other the day before even if it had been 5 months, as opposed to acting awkward and unsure of she wanted to talk to me. That makes it tense and uncomfortable therefore not allowing the girl to let herself enjoy your company because she can tell your unsure of yourself etc

The reason she said she went out with me was because after she finished school and started her career she wasn't able to do much socially anymore with her friends and while she was dating guys here and there (never more than 1-2 dates ) she realized she wasn't having any fun or enjoying her time. Hence why the next time I asked her out she thought "screw Jt, I always smile and he makes me laugh whenever we see each other, even if the date sucks I know he's gonna be easy to hang out with"

 

So the ability to appear and show that you're in control of your own happiness is an attractive quality. K needs to know that you're not drooling over her. The common friends and social circle you have has made it very clear that you have a crush and strong feelings for her. Even if you've never told her, she's definitely aware. She needs to see that you're capable of creating your own happiness. Not needing to talk to her every time you see her or are at the same place, not hearing from people that "Za was asking about how you were the other day and who you were dating" . Females are driven to attraction by seeing that a guy is/can attract other girls. That "he must have something to offer if that girl is hanging out with him"

[impatiently_patient]

ZA... forget this guy's hot air... and forget the girl... Seriously.

[ZA Dater]

While I'm glad to hear you're taking the more rational and hopeful approach, it's important that you prepare that this isn't going to be a quick fix where you're guaranteed to see results in the coming days,weeks,month. We just saw you get into this same "gung-ho" plan only to have you drastically declare it all a massive failure and waste of time just because the 1 girl you have a huge crush on ended up dating someone 3 weeks into your lifestyle change.

 

While my story was meant to inspire and show you that being rejected doesn't mean you should give up.... I also was sure to mention that I did not spend those 6 years it took before my gf said yes to a date, miserable and thinking that I was a loser and not exploring and getting excited pursuing other options. I had other girlfriends during that 6 year period where I didn't think of her whatsoever. There's a big difference between that and what you're doing and how you're looking at it. Yes, I felt after meeting my current fiancée initially that she was different from the rest of the girls I had met up until that point and was a challenge for me..

 

Once she was my gf 6 years later she ended up telling me during a random convo that she started getting attracted when she saw either out at a bar or social event, or on social media, that I was always happy and enjoying the people I was with and people I could meet. The fact that I could ask her out, then go out and have a epic night out with my friends showed her that I didn't rely on her or a girl in general in order to be a happy and enjoyable person.

Every time in those 6 years when I'd see her , I acted and treated her like we had seen each other the day before even if it had been 5 months, as opposed to acting awkward and unsure of she wanted to talk to me. That makes it tense and uncomfortable therefore not allowing the girl to let herself enjoy your company because she can tell your unsure of yourself etc

The reason she said she went out with me was because after she finished school and started her career she wasn't able to do much socially anymore with her friends and while she was dating guys here and there (never more than 1-2 dates ) she realized she wasn't having any fun or enjoying her time. Hence why the next time I asked her out she thought "screw Jt, I always smile and he makes me laugh whenever we see each other, even if the date sucks I know he's gonna be easy to hang out with"

 

So the ability to appear and show that you're in control of your own happiness is an attractive quality. K needs to know that you're not drooling over her. The common friends and social circle you have has made it very clear that you have a crush and strong feelings for her. Even if you've never told her, she's definitely aware. She needs to see that you're capable of creating your own happiness. Not needing to talk to her every time you see her or are at the same place, not hearing from people that "Za was asking about how you were the other day and who you were dating" . Females are driven to attraction by seeing that a guy is/can attract other girls. That "he must have something to offer if that girl is hanging out with him"

 

Again good solid advice, which I will try my best to take to heart.

 

Yes, its not going to be a quick fix, to physically get myself into where I want to be will take time in itself. During that time I can work on my mind. Yesterday I did achieve another one of my life ambitions and its one which some may find commendable and attractive but it was something I did for me.

 

Look if someone else comes along who wows me then sure I will give it a try and see how it goes, distractions can be good.

 

The second last point is where it fell down I think, she became too aware of how much I liked her and therein the problem was created, once that happened I think I should have turned away.

 

I had a rather possibly bad idea, find somebody super hot to take to an event where I know she will be...

 

How terrible an idea would that be?

[Qboro90]

Lastly... I completely disagree with your last paragraph.. You have mentioned this a lot in your posts I notice. Needing to "WOW" the girl and be Wowed in return in order for you to get involved.

 

That's the same "love at first sight" mindset that keeps people from exploring the actual perfect partner just because they didn't blow their freakin mind on the first date or two. It's not a performance of showmanship where you're trying to leave the date and just collapse because she's an angel who came down from heaven just for you.

 

You'll never meet anyone that way. And no one wants to feel like you're putting on a show or acting in order to impress them. The relationships that work develop slowly and get stronger because you're uncovering little things about the person every time you're together that add to the initial attraction.

 

Thats like thinking that a baseball player will only have a good game if he hits a home run on his first at bat of the year. My fiancée didn't blow my mind the first time or two that I was around her. But as I learned more about her I just liked little things that she absolutely was not doing purposely and just part of her overall nature.

 

And the things that Wow you and make sense to you I can almost guarantee won't be the same things that WOW a girl. Just like the things a girl or K for example would consider WOW'ing, might be something you do so subtly and are unaware of that you couldn't replicate it and present it to her intentionally even if you knew what it was. So my opinion is that you just need to place less of emphasis on the "Omg she's everything I've ever wanted!" Immediately and more "she seems like a really sweet girl, it's nice to be around her" and nothing further. Letting feelings develop naturally will always be more effective

[Qboro90]

Again good solid advice, which I will try my best to take to heart.

 

Yes, its not going to be a quick fix, to physically get myself into where I want to be will take time in itself. During that time I can work on my mind. Yesterday I did achieve another one of my life ambitions and its one which some may find commendable and attractive but it was something I did for me.

 

Look if someone else comes along who wows me then sure I will give it a try and see how it goes, distractions can be good.

 

The second last point is where it fell down I think, she became too aware of how much I liked her and therein the problem was created, once that happened I think I should have turned away.

 

I had a rather possibly bad idea, find somebody super hot to take to an event where I know she will be...

 

How terrible an idea would that be?

 

Bad idea simply because you are doing things with K as the reason behind it. Forget K as a factor right now. Just resign yourself to the fact that you're not going to win her over in the next 3-6 months. You're just not, and living your life and doing things because you think she will like it or react to it will just continue to paralyze your growth. When you're able to meet a good looking girl and ask her to an event because you think she'd be fun to go with and nothing else then you're in the right track.

 

Plus the honest truth is that she probably will never feel the way you want her to about you. Just because my story expressed hope of continued pursuit and you like reading that the 1 in a million chance ended up working out and your goal is to beat the odds, doesn't mean that it's gonna happen to you. You can tell your son that he can be a pro football player if he trains hard enough and dedicated himself relentlessly. But if he never gets drafted and at 35 years old is still without a job then you've failed to also prepare him for the sad reality that not everything we want ends up being attainable. You would tell your son that it's time to find a different job and interest other than the NfL wouldn't you?

 

So I'm telling you... Time to hang up the cleats and realize the NfL isn't calling.