Married guy with secret relationship with female friend

[MightyPen]

I guess I'm just looking for general advice about whether this relationship can be saved, and if so, how?

 

 

I'll try to keep my summary concise:

 

 

Me: Married guy, mid 30s, married for 11 years. I've never strayed in my marriage until recently (see below).

 

 

About a year ago, out of boredom I suppose, I checked out an online adult chat site. I ended up getting sucked into the chats, many of which are totally platonic, although others certainly aren't. Chatted with a few folks but one woman stood out from the rest.

 

 

We haven't went more than a week without emailing/chatting since then. We are both in relationships and neither of us is trying to move anything into "real life." This has been our secret little relationship where we spill our guts, share innermost thoughts, etc. I am sexually attracted to her (we've traded tons of pics) and she says she's very attracted to me as well. That being said, 90% of our talks are totally platonic. We talk about our lives in a very intimate way, but there's not a huge amount of sex talk.

 

 

At one point, feelings of guilt caused us to try to trim out the sexy talk and make it 100% platonic, but that attempted transition didn't last long. Things grew more intense over the summer. We started talking on the phone. I tell myself that I can compartmentalize my feelings and I can "flip the switch" at home, but it's not always easy to do. I think about her all the time. Every day. Many times, she's the last person I think about when I close my eyes at night. I frequently wonder what she's doing at a particular moment (like right now). She has become one of my best friends and vice versa.

 

 

How can I keep this going without damaging her life (or mine)?

 

 

Can men and women ever just be "buddies" (as same-sex friends might be) if they are attracted to each other and value each other's intelligence, sense of humor, opinions and companionship? If we can't do this, I can't see how ANYONE can. We're both intelligent, professional people who try to be pragmatic about things. We're not dreamy-eyed kids.

 

 

Has anyone successfully continued this sort of secret friendship on a long-term basis?

[craw]

Sounds super risky to me and it seems like you're already having second thoughts.

 

Personally, I have had close friendships with men - it usually ends up the guy had other intentions.

 

If your wife were to find out, would she be happy about it? I doubt it.

[MightyPen]

I acknowledge it's risky. You're certainly right about that. But my wife wouldn't accept the relationship even if it were 100% platonic. She'd never be okay with me having private chats with a woman other than her.

 

 

The woman and I have racked our brains trying to figure out how to slowly incorporate each other into our "real lives," understanding that the frequency and intimacy of our talks would necessarily have to decrease, perhaps relegated to quick FB "heys" or things like that. See, the thing is, I don't think I want that. It would sort of suck to have something deep and substantive be reduced to something so casual. Plus, it would be extremely risky anyway. How would I ever explain to my wife who this person is if she saw a FB message or something?

 

 

So for now, the forbidden friendship route seems far less risky and far more meaningful.

[purplesorrow]

I acknowledge it's risky. You're certainly right about that. But my wife wouldn't accept the relationship even if it were 100% platonic. She'd never be okay with me having private chats with a woman other than her.

 

 

The woman and I have racked our brains trying to figure out how to slowly incorporate each other into our "real lives," understanding that the frequency and intimacy of our talks would necessarily have to decrease, perhaps relegated to quick FB "heys" or things like that. See, the thing is, I don't think I want that. It would sort of suck to have something deep and substantive be reduced to something so casual. Plus, it would be extremely risky anyway. How would I ever explain to my wife who this person is if she saw a FB message or something?

 

 

So for now, the forbidden friendship route seems far less risky and far more meaningful.

 

Would you be ok with your wife having this type of friendship? You have already crossed the line because you are sharing things you wouldn't want your wife to know about. My ex's affair started as a secret friendship. It ended with our divorce. His secret friend moved on to the next husband. Just stop before you both ruin your lives.

[MightyPen]

I hope you don't mind a follow up question.

 

 

What if we were able to keep the sex talk out of it? Is it necessarily a bad thing to have conversations with friends that you wouldn't have with your spouse? Would you have minded if your ex had a friendship (that didn't involve sex) with the other woman?

 

 

I mean, women talk with each other about things they don't share with their husbands. Men do the same with pals. Just because you're married, I don't think it means that you should be privy to every conversation your spouse has with other people. In other words, I don't think that if I tell my friend "John" something in confidence that he should feel free to share it with his wife.

 

If she and I were able to scrub this clean of sexual or romantic feelings or talk, we'd still have a TON to talk about. I find her fascinating in every way.

 

Yes, I'm looking for a way...any way...to keep this going.

[purplesorrow]

I hope you don't mind a follow up question.

 

 

What if we were able to keep the sex talk out of it? Is it necessarily a bad thing to have conversations with friends that you wouldn't have with your spouse? Would you have minded if your ex had a friendship (that didn't involve sex) with the other woman?

 

 

I mean, women talk with each other about things they don't share with their husbands. Men do the same with pals. Just because you're married, I don't think it means that you should be privy to every conversation your spouse has with other people. In other words, I don't think that if I tell my friend "John" something in confidence that he should feel free to share it with his wife.

 

If she and I were able to scrub this clean of sexual or romantic feelings or talk, we'd still have a TON to talk about. I find her fascinating in every way.

 

Yes, I'm looking for a way...any way...to keep this going.

Dude! You are seriously tripping! You know you are wrong. You can't have a secret friendship with some woman behind your wife's back. You wouldn't want your wife having the same convos with some dude behind your back. The more intamacy you build with your other woman, the more you take from your wife. You will soon have a void with your wife. You should be protecting your marriage and your wife. You are doing neither. You are letting some woman spy on her life and slip into the cracks you are creating. My ex is still trying to win me back.

Be careful and stop trying to justify this.

[Michelle ma Belle]

I hope you don't mind a follow up question.

 

 

What if we were able to keep the sex talk out of it? Is it necessarily a bad thing to have conversations with friends that you wouldn't have with your spouse? Would you have minded if your ex had a friendship (that didn't involve sex) with the other woman?

 

 

I mean, women talk with each other about things they don't share with their husbands. Men do the same with pals. Just because you're married, I don't think it means that you should be privy to every conversation your spouse has with other people. In other words, I don't think that if I tell my friend "John" something in confidence that he should feel free to share it with his wife.

 

If she and I were able to scrub this clean of sexual or romantic feelings or talk, we'd still have a TON to talk about. I find her fascinating in every way.

 

Yes, I'm looking for a way...any way...to keep this going.

 

I'll repeat the same advice I posted on your other thread regarding this exact same issue.

 

A friendship IS an emotional relationship. Just because you may succeed at removing the sexual aspect of your virtual relationship doesn't change anything about what is going on between the two of you. If it's just friendship than why not tell your partners about each other?

 

You already know you've crossed a line here. You're both leaning on each other for happiness and fulfillment which is something you're supposed to get from your partners. How exactly is that fair to your partners?

 

And if you think you can sustain this long term, you're fooling yourselves. At some point someone is going to want to meet in person in the name of "friendship" only to end up in bed together.

 

What happens then?

[Michelle ma Belle]

And remember, we always want what we can't have.

[Satu]

Your choice is this:

 

Live a lie, or live a life of honesty and integrity.

 

Your dishonesty makes you less than the man you could (should) be.

 

End it with the other woman, confess all to your wife, and ask to be forgiven.

 

That's the only way you can recover your integrity.

 

 

Take care.

[MightyPen]

For what it's worth, I have never (excluding this episode) strayed during my marriage. I'm not saying I deserve a medal or anything, I'm just trying to say that I'm not some dog always on the prowl. Hell, I'm having a relationship with a woman WITHOUT any sex. Many guys would scoff at me.

 

 

I give to charity and I think I'm a good dad. Until recently, I think I was a decent husband as well.

 

 

And I do feel guilt about the situation. She does too. If it was one-sided, I think it would be easier to let it die, but she's telling me that she's never felt this way about anyone before, and of course I'm telling her the same thing, so we're feeding into each other.

[MightyPen]

I appreciate everyone's replies. I'll likely gather my thoughts tonight and check back in tomorrow morning.

[purplesorrow]

For what it's worth, I have never (excluding this episode) strayed during my marriage. I'm not saying I deserve a medal or anything, I'm just trying to say that I'm not some dog always on the prowl. Hell, I'm having a relationship with a woman WITHOUT any sex. Many guys would scoff at me.

 

 

I give to charity and I think I'm a good dad. Until recently, I think I was a decent husband as well.

 

 

And I do feel guilt about the situation. She does too. If it was one-sided, I think it would be easier to let it die, but she's telling me that she's never felt this way about anyone before, and of course I'm telling her the same thing, so we're feeding into each other.

 

It only takes once to destroy everything.

[Gloria25]

I understand your situation and have empathy...

 

If you "do" decide to end it with the other woman, don't tell your wife. All it's gonna do is create a wedge in your RL and your wife is never gonna forget it. Plus, then your wife is gonna be insecure and for what? You ended it.

 

My fav podcaster had a call where the guy was promising this woman he was gonna go on vacation with her and all that. They haven't even kissed - but were chatting for like a yr or something. I agree with my fav podcaster - no need to tell the wife cuz nothing happened. All the guy did was chat with this woman and it never went anywhere.

 

I don't believe in telling someone something just to "tell" them and/or turn it into a confessional you reserve for your priest cuz you gotta ask yourself - "What is that person gonna do with the info I gave them?" If you tell your wife about your chats with this woman and you ended it, then what do you expect your wife to do with that info? I can guarantee you that she'll hold it over your head for eternity. Women never forget and a lot of them love to have something to hang over your head to beat you with.

 

If you "do" decide to continue chatting with this woman. I highly suggest you never meet her offline. Cuz yes, two people alone - the devil is the third person in the room.

[Popsicle]

Ask your wife how she feels about it and what you should do and then you'll have your answer.

[Popsicle]

And why do men like to chat so much? I really don't get it.

[MightyPen]

I understand your situation and have empathy...

 

If you "do" decide to end it with the other woman, don't tell your wife. All it's gonna do is create a wedge in your RL and your wife is never gonna forget it. Plus, then your wife is gonna be insecure and for what? You ended it.

 

My fav podcaster had a call where the guy was promising this woman he was gonna go on vacation with her and all that. They haven't even kissed - but were chatting for like a yr or something. I agree with my fav podcaster - no need to tell the wife cuz nothing happened. All the guy did was chat with this woman and it never went anywhere.

 

I don't believe in telling someone something just to "tell" them and/or turn it into a confessional you reserve for your priest cuz you gotta ask yourself - "What is that person gonna do with the info I gave them?" If you tell your wife about your chats with this woman and you ended it, then what do you expect your wife to do with that info? I can guarantee you that she'll hold it over your head for eternity. Women never forget and a lot of them love to have something to hang over your head to beat you with.

 

If you "do" decide to continue chatting with this woman. I highly suggest you never meet her offline. Cuz yes, two people alone - the devil is the third person in the room.

 

I appreciate finally getting a sympathetic response. I don't mind tough love - no one forced me come to this place and spill my guts, after all - but it's reassuring to know at least one person understands the struggle I'm having. I agree with you and your podcast host. How does confessing to something like this help the relationship? She would never forgive me. It would be more logical to get a divorce rather than open this can of worms.

[MightyPen]

And why do men like to chat so much? I really don't get it.

 

I obviously can't speak for "men," just for myself.

 

 

I was attracted to the idea of having intimate conversations with people (women) with none of the hangups of real life. Chats just boil down to communication skills, talking, typing, coming up with quick comebacks, etc., and those skills play to my strengths. I am a bit of an introvert in real life (not overly so, just on the quiet side) so I was never good at making small talk at parties, clubs, etc.

[Popsicle]

I obviously can't speak for "men," just for myself.

 

 

I was attracted to the idea of having intimate conversations with people (women) with none of the hangups of real life. Chats just boil down to communication skills, talking, typing, coming up with quick comebacks, etc., and those skills play to my strengths. I am a bit of an introvert in real life (not overly so, just on the quiet side) so I was never good at making small talk at parties, clubs, etc.

 

You're not single, youre married, you can't chat women up. You can chat your wife up.

 

I agree with Gloria25 not to tell, but You have to stop, youcan't become a serial cheater, even if it's just online, or a cake eater.

Edited September 29, 2015 by Popsicle

[MightyPen]

I agree with Gloria25 not to tell, but You have to stop, youcan't become a serial cheater, even if it's just online, or a cake eater.

 

I'm trying. That's why I'm here. I just need support. I have no one I can really spill everything to in real life. I have a couple close guy friends who I know would keep it in confidence, but it would change how they look at me and I don't want that.

[Popsicle]

I'm trying. That's why I'm here. I just need support. I have no one I can really spill everything to in real life. I have a couple close guy friends who I know would keep it in confidence, but it would change how they look at me and I don't want that.

 

Okay good keep posting here.

[MightyPen]

Can anyone give me advice on how (the logistics) to end it?

 

She and I are still "taking a break." We have picked a date (a few weeks down the line) to restart communications. Should I just wait until then and tell her we should end it? Or should I go ahead and reach out to her now?

 

The danger of waiting until our "restart" date to tell her is that I'm afraid that it will negate any healing or progress I'll make this month. I feel like it would be like starting all over again. I also think it would be cruel for me to have her waiting around for a few more weeks expecting me to call her and for us to "catch up," with me knowing all along that I am going to end it.

 

Is there any reason I shouldn't restart communications immediately (like today) so we can get some closure and say our goodbyes?

 

 

Also, how honest should I be about my feelings? Is it kinder to act like I've moved on, in the hope it will help her move on too? I would be lying about that obviously, as I still have deep feelings for her on many levels, but I don't think trying to wrap it all up with a bow and ending it with, "I'll remember you for the rest of my life," would help her deal with the end of the relationship either. Maybe a middle ground?

Edited October 1, 2015 by MightyPen

[Bittersweetie]

MP,

 

I posted on your other thread.

 

You cannot remain friends with your EAP. You are trying to rationalize a scenario where that will be okay. I did that too. I thought, we could email occasionally then maybe meet once a year and my H will never know. Then I can have both men in my life and everything will be fine.

 

Then my AP stopped talking to me, and I had a d-day. I almost ended up with neither. Fortunately my amazing H gave me a second chance and I am thankful. I made a choice to live honestly and with integrity. I have a friend that says it's not what you do when everyone is looking that counts...it's what you do when no one is looking. I find that to be true.

 

I look back at my actions and think WTF. How could I have been so selfish, self-centered, and stupid? I have a feeling that someday you will think this too.

 

PS. Logistically on how to end it:

 

Send a note saying that you cannot communicate anymore, that you need to focus on yourself and your family.

 

Then stay NC, every day. No contact, no googling, no FB stalking.

[MightyPen]

MP,

 

I posted on your other thread.

 

You cannot remain friends with your EAP. You are trying to rationalize a scenario where that will be okay. I did that too. I thought, we could email occasionally then maybe meet once a year and my H will never know. Then I can have both men in my life and everything will be fine.

 

It is so helpful to hear from people who have been in the same position. I really appreciate you sharing your experience. It means a lot to me.

 

Our modes of communication are pretty safe, so yes, we've both been trying to figure out how "to make it work" on a long-term basis. I feel sick to my stomach thinking about never talking to her again. We recently told each other that we viewed the other as among the closest of friends, perhaps potential life-long friends. We use words like "connection," probably in an attempt to make it seem less shady.

 

I'm beating myself up because, under other circumstances, where we were above board from the start, maybe things would end up differently.

 

The idea of just sending her an abrupt note and cutting it off and never ever hearing her reply also sickens me. I feel like I'm stabbing her in the back. (And yes I know, someone is going to say I'm doing that to my wife, so please lay off. I'm just being open about my feelings here).

 

Ugh I just FB stalked her. This is going to be f*cking impossible. The last time I broke up with someone, it was like 2002. How the hell do you avoid the temptation with instantaneous access this days?

Edited October 1, 2015 by MightyPen

[Bittersweetie]

How do you avoid temptation? You make a choice and stick to it. It may not be easy, but it is simple.

 

This is a secret relationship right now. If you truly want it to be real, and continue, then take it above board. Tell your wife, tell your friends, tell your family. If you don't want to do that, that in itself says a lot. It's showing disrespect not only for your wife, family, and marriage, but also for your EAP.

 

There is also a strong addiction element here. I can attest to it. I realized that I was completed addicted to the rush I felt when xAP emailed me, chatted with me, texted me. I even got that rush from visiting his FB page. But I stopped. I took it one day at a time. Using phrases like "never ever hearing her reply" doesn't help, it only feeds the drama...but say, "I will not do it today," and then those days turn into weeks into months into years.

 

How do you want to live? Hiding things, lying, disrespecting the people you claim to care about? Or do you want to live honestly and with integrity? It is totally up to you.

[Bittersweetie]

Oh, and one more question...how do you know that your EAP isn't emailing with someone else in addition to you? You did meet her on an adult chat site.

 

I ask because, in my situation, xAP had this amazing connection...I thought he was my soulmate...then he said he had another girlfriend. Other than his wife. And I was so invested in our "connection" that I refused to believe it...