Married guy with secret relationship with female friend

[privategal]

Deleted my post too personal to share.

Edited November 23, 2015 by privategal

[MightyPen]

sure but keep in mind that you don't love your mother or a sister the way you love a wife or a husband. we CAN indeed love more than one person at the time - but those are different kinds of love and aren't considered poly.

 

can we been IN love and be passionately and romantically in love with more than one people at the time? probably not.

 

judging from his previous threads - the OP isn't i love with his wife at all. so him feeling something for someone else isn't poly at all... it's actually monogamous.

 

we aren't monogamous by nature or polygamous by nature - monogamy & poly are a matter of choices. when one person falls in love with someone else while being married or attached - they aren't proving that they can love two person at one time... they usually love only one in a romantic way so really... we are far more monogamous than poly.

 

what ISN'T natural or realistic to us is the expectations of spending your entire life with just one person.

 

 

So the whole concept of being torn between romantic/potential romantic partners is a Hollywood invention?? What about Bella and Jacob and the sparkly vampire dude? What about Katniss and Peta and Thor's brother? Okay, wait...these may not be the best examples...

 

Anyway, my point is we can love many different people in any different ways. It seems VERY arbitrary to say, "you only have eros for one person no matter what." Says who??

 

I DO agree with "what ISN'T natural or realistic to us is the expectations of spending your entire life with just one person."

 

And regarding the part I bolded from your quote: It is very presumptuous for you to assume I have no love for my wife. That is very untrue. Many people here in my position would blast you for making such a statement, but I will restrain myself and just say you are wrong.

Edited November 23, 2015 by MightyPen

[whichwayisup]

I DO agree with "what ISN'T natural or realistic to us is the expectations of spending your entire life with just one person."

 

But that is what you promised your wife, isn't it?

 

If you truly feel that you are meant to not be tied down to one person for the rest of your life, why not come clean and instead of sneaking around behind your wife's back, betraying her in the worst possible way, come clean and TELL her the truth. Discuss having an open marriage so she can enjoy the benefits of another man like you are enjoying another woman. Only fair, right? Or would you be jealous and hurt if you had to share your wife with another man.... Just stuff for you to think about.

 

Haven't read this whole thread so I don't know if this has been brought up earlier.

[MightyPen]

But that is what you promised your wife, isn't it?

 

If you truly feel that you are meant to not be tied down to one person for the rest of your life, why not come clean and instead of sneaking around behind your wife's back, betraying her in the worst possible way, come clean and TELL her the truth. Discuss having an open marriage so she can enjoy the benefits of another man like you are enjoying another woman. Only fair, right? Or would you be jealous and hurt if you had to share your wife with another man.... Just stuff for you to think about.

 

Haven't read this whole thread so I don't know if this has been brought up earlier.

 

 

My relationship with my friend has been limited to chats/emails/phone/limited social media. There's no exchanging of risqué pics or things like that. I don't love her and she doesn't love me. We just enjoy our connection and sharing little snippets of our lives. People have overblown this quite a bit. You might want to read the rest of the thread (although I know there's a lot!).

[lil hoodlum]

Yes, a lot of you have gotten jumped on by the majority here because people choose to believe in the idea of monogamy and until death do you part (monogamous marriage) mindsets. However, if that wasn't the norm shoved down our throats and perhaps we all had a much different outlook and perspective of relationships then you'd be getting much more varied and supportive advice.

 

Instead you're judged for being "different from what's normal." It's only been a recent thing out of the thousand years humans have lived that we are force-fed the idea of monogamy. This is a prime example of why monogamy is not meant for everyone.

 

I got news for you and I'm sure I'll get a ton of hate for saying this, but, it's completely healthy and natural to love more than one person at a time. You did it from the day you were born.

 

 

I'm not sure I agree with you about what everyone is jumping on about. You have spun it that others are upset about monogamy. I believe what gets everyone upset is the dishonesty about the posters who are carrying on with emotional affairs.

 

 

If humans aren't meant to be monogamous, why not be open and honest with your significant other that you have "secret" feelings in your heart for another person?

 

 

I believe that most, if not all, people would be geniunely hurt and upset to find out the truth that their loved one is laying next to them in bed all the while thinking of someone else in a romantic sense and holding "secret" desires in their heart.

 

 

The reason more people aren't honest about this is because for most people it is a deal breaker and a fantastic way to destroy trust and relationships.

[whichwayisup]

My relationship with my friend has been limited to chats/emails/phone/limited social media. There's no exchanging of risqué pics or things like that. I don't love her and she doesn't love me. We just enjoy our connection and sharing little snippets of our lives. People have overblown this quite a bit. You might want to read the rest of the thread (although I know there's a lot!).

 

It's a lot more than that, you invested in her with a lot of emotions. It's still an inappropriate friendship that IS doing damage to your marriage and your connection with your wife. I skimmed the rest of your thread. I see a man who does love his wife and his life as he knows but also wants extra stimulation on the side, an ego feed, a connection with another woman, so what if it's just through social media...It's still an emotional affair where you're putting effort into another woman instead of your own wife. Please don't lie to yourself and minimize this like it's nothing. If your wife knew (and read) what you've said to this OW, I'm betting she would feel hurt, betrayed and cheated upon.

[MightyPen]

It's a lot more than that, you invested in her with a lot of emotions. It's still an inappropriate friendship that IS doing damage to your marriage and your connection with your wife. I skimmed the rest of your thread. I see a man who does love his wife and his life as he knows but also wants extra stimulation on the side, an ego feed, a connection with another woman, so what if it's just through social media...It's still an emotional affair where you're putting effort into another woman instead of your own wife. Please don't lie to yourself and minimize this like it's nothing. If your wife knew (and read) what you've said to this OW, I'm betting she would feel hurt, betrayed and cheated upon.

 

 

I appreciate you being objective and fair in your analysis. Yes, we are fond of each other and yes there is an underlying "I adore you" element to our relationship, but again, no risqué pics, no "I love you"s, no requests to meet up, no sexy talks, nothing like that at all.

 

In fact, we are trying to support each other in our relationships with our SOs. We now talk openly about our SOs, and I think that can deepen our friendship because maybe instead of, in the back of our heads, viewing each other as a rival for our affections versus our SOs, we can view each other as people who care about the other's best interests, which to be honest, was always really the case.

 

I have (somewhat jokingly) told her that I'll pretty much always take her SO's side if they have an argument, so there won't even be an appearance of me trying to drive a wedge between them (and vice versa).

[whichwayisup]

You're welcome. I may come off harshly at times but it's more because some posters (like you! ) need a reality check.

 

I still think you're lying to you're lying to yourself, you mentioned sexual chemistry etc in your opening post and feelings, yet now it sounds like you're justifying and downplaying and denying the seriousness of the friendship.

 

Let me ask, does your wife have any idea of this friendship? If no, why not? If you're such good friends with this other woman, why doesn't your wife know about it and not met or had a conversation with her? same goes vice versa, you and this OW's husband, does he know of you?

 

It's a self serving and selfish friendship. You are getting something out of it, something that you're not getting at home... It's just different male/female and you know this! If you were opening up with your male buddies that's okay but this isn't. It's hidden and secretive. Damaging and in your earlier posts you seemed much more 'into her' than you are (pretending) now. Lying to yourself to make it seem like this friendship is purely platonic and innocent is not helping you at all. Think long term not in the heat of the moment.

[whichwayisup]

I will call you on your BS and re-reading a few of your posts on the first page vs what you are saying now is BS (bs as in bullcrap not betrayed spouse)!!!!

 

How would you feel if your wife was emotionally investing like this with another man? Secretly opening up to him about intimate things, discussing you, your marriage and other personal things?

[MightyPen]

I will call you on your BS and re-reading a few of your posts on the first page vs what you are saying now is BS (bs as in bullcrap not betrayed spouse)!!!!

 

How would you feel if your wife was emotionally investing like this with another man? Secretly opening up to him about intimate things, discussing you, your marriage and other personal things?

 

 

You're right about things having changed since my first post. They had to.

 

 

The whole thing was admittedly unhealthy and we both felt very guilty. Those feelings of guilt led to our taking a break. I think we're in a much healthier place now, as described in my post above. Everyone on the forums has said that we can't build a true, long-lasting friendship, but we're going to try our best to prove them all wrong.

 

 

I told my friend about all the forum comments and her response was, "-expletive- all the haters!" (I swear she is very smart and well-spoken).

[Bittersweetie]

In fact, we are trying to support each other in our relationships with our SOs. We now talk openly about our SOs, and I think that can deepen our friendship because maybe instead of, in the back of our heads, viewing each other as a rival for our affections versus our SOs, we can view each other as people who care about the other's best interests, which to be honest, was always really the case.

 

Are you in contact with AP again? I thought you had ended the relationship.

[whichwayisup]

You're right about things having changed since my first post. They had to.

 

 

The whole thing was admittedly unhealthy and we both felt very guilty. Those feelings of guilt led to our taking a break. I think we're in a much healthier place now, as described in my post above. Everyone on the forums has said that we can't build a true, long-lasting friendship, but we're going to try our best to prove them all wrong.

 

 

I told my friend about all the forum comments and her response was, "-expletive- all the haters!" (I swear she is very smart and well-spoken).

 

Ah, you still don't get it. And I don't think you will until the shi.t hits the fan (meaning when your wife realizes that you have a close female friend she knows nothing about) and it explodes in your face.

 

You're not understanding the whole point of this. Marriage is for you and your wife, not you, your wife and another woman.

 

I do not believe for one second that the feelings are poof! All gone between you and this OW. You're fooling yourselves. Ow's reaction to what you told her that's been said on her is more proof! She says 'haters'.... Those who say stuff like that are the ones with the issues. Myself and many others are not haters, we're trying to help and open your eyes.

 

Again, you've still not answered any of my questions about how YOU would feel if your wife had an inappropriate and close friendship with another man. Maybe because you know it would hurt and you wouldn't like it so it's easier just to ignore and pretend you're in a bubble with this OW and you feel like you're not doing anything wrong.

 

How long was your 'break' from the OW? From feelings of sexual lust and from the heart, to now platonic and innocent friendship? Again, I think you both are fooling yourselves....

[MightyPen]

Are you in contact with AP again? I thought you had ended the relationship.

 

 

Yes just very recently. We missed each other and we're now talking like friends talk. No cutesy nicknames or sexual talk or anything like that. There's no way to bring it "above ground," at least for now, so no our SOs wouldn't like it, but as long as we can keep our talks away from the romantic area, I don't think we'll feel guilty anymore.

[Michelle ma Belle]

Ah, you still don't get it. And I don't think you will until the shi.t hits the fan (meaning when your wife realizes that you have a close female friend she knows nothing about) and it explodes in your face.

 

You're not understanding the whole point of this. Marriage is for you and your wife, not you, your wife and another woman.

 

I do not believe for one second that the feelings are poof! All gone between you and this OW. You're fooling yourselves. Ow's reaction to what you told her that's been said on her is more proof! She says 'haters'.... Those who say stuff like that are the ones with the issues. Myself and many others are not haters, we're trying to help and open your eyes.

 

Again, you've still not answered any of my questions about how YOU would feel if your wife had an inappropriate and close friendship with another man. Maybe because you know it would hurt and you wouldn't like it so it's easier just to ignore and pretend you're in a bubble with this OW and you feel like you're not doing anything wrong.

 

How long was your 'break' from the OW? From feelings of sexual lust and from the heart, to now platonic and innocent friendship? Again, I think you both are fooling yourselves....

 

Sorry MP but I'm gonna have to agree with this post.

 

I'm not sure how I missed all of this and I didn't realize you reconnected with this woman. I'd be lying if I didn't say I was deeply disappointed. I was sure you would make it and was proud to see you doing right by your wife and your family. A shining example of what is possible.

 

 

I also think you're both fooling yourselves. Anyone can see that but it's your life and your marriage you're gambling with.

 

I doubt anything anyone has to say on this subject will really matter anymore so good luck.

[lil hoodlum]

You are only fooling yourselves.

 

If your EA ever gets discovered and blows up in your face, I hope it is worth all of the collateral damage it causes.

[MightyPen]

Sorry MP but I'm gonna have to agree with this post.

 

I'm not sure how I missed all of this and I didn't realize you reconnected with this woman. I'd be lying if I didn't say I was deeply disappointed. I was sure you would make it and was proud to see you doing right by your wife and your family. A shining example of what is possible.

 

 

I also think you're both fooling yourselves. Anyone can see that but it's your life and your marriage you're gambling with.

 

I doubt anything anyone has to say on this subject will really matter anymore so good luck.

 

 

I'm sorry to disappoint you, Michelle (I didn't mean that in a smart alec way). You've been nice to me and I hope we can at least talk about other topics even if you're disappointed in my decision here.

[MightyPen]

You are only fooling yourselves.

 

If your EA ever gets discovered and blows up in your face, I hope it is worth all of the collateral damage it causes.

 

It almost sounds like you want it to blow up in my face.

 

 

But we've started fresh. Deleted alllll the old messages. Every single one. We've promised to call each other out if either of us gets lovey dovey, even for a minute. She has a wicked sense of humor...almost as good as mine...and we have plenty to talk about outside of sex/romance.

[whichwayisup]

It almost sounds like you want it to blow up in my face.

 

 

But we've started fresh. Deleted alllll the old messages. Every single one. We've promised to call each other out if either of us gets lovey dovey, even for a minute. She has a wicked sense of humor...almost as good as mine...and we have plenty to talk about outside of sex/romance.

 

You're still in the wrong here by investing and laughing and talking to this OW. What about your wife? Why do you feel it's okay to do this and not let your wife know anything? you don't have to answer my questions out loud on here, but at least for your own sake, answer in your head so you know. My guess is you're not willing to 'go there' because you know deep down this is all so wrong.

 

All you've done is hidden the evidence. I can tell you pretty much 100 percent those feelings are NOT gone, they are just hidden and you both are being careful.

[MightyPen]

You're still in the wrong here by investing and laughing and talking to this OW. What about your wife? Why do you feel it's okay to do this and not let your wife know anything? you don't have to answer my questions out loud on here, but at least for your own sake, answer in your head so you know. My guess is you're not willing to 'go there' because you know deep down this is all so wrong.

 

All you've done is hidden the evidence. I can tell you pretty much 100 percent those feelings are NOT gone, they are just hidden and you both are being careful.

 

Of course I wish it could be different. I don't like the hiding and the sneaking. I'm not a sociopath. I wish I would have met her in a different way and that we wouldn't have given into our sexual/romantic desires. If we had met at the local Birdwatches Meetup group and exchanged friendly emails about....birds?...things would be different.

 

So we're doing the next best thing and holding each other accountable to make this something that can be healthy for us. And I'm NOT thinking about her at night anymore or having dreams about her. And I don't miss her on the weekends nearly as much as I used to. Things have definitely cooled off, and that's a good thing. It was destined to flame out soon anyway if things stayed that intense. Now the relationship is slower, easier, more relaxed, and hopefully, something that can last a long time.

Edited November 23, 2015 by MightyPen

[lana-banana]

Of course I wish it could be different. I don't like the hiding and the sneaking. I'm not a sociopath. I wish I would have met her in a different way and that we wouldn't have given into our sexual/romantic desires. If we had met at the local Birdwatches Meetup group and exchanged friendly emails about....birds?...things would be different.

 

So we're doing the next best thing and holding each other accountable to make this something that can be healthy for us. And I'm NOT thinking about her at night anymore or having dreams about her. And I don't miss her on the weekends nearly as much as I used to. Things have definitely cooled off, and that's a good thing. It was destined to flame out soon anyway if things stayed that intense. Now the relationship is slower, easier, more relaxed, and hopefully, something that can last a long time.

 

No, this isn't "the next best thing". The right thing to do is to cease all contact and go back to your wife, or, failing that, obtain divorces so you and your affair partner can be together openly and honestly. You continue to wound your wife and your marriage, over and over, all so you can have it both ways. You are blissfully indifferent to how disrespectful you're being and I don't think you believe for a second that things between you and the AP have cooled off for good. You don't seem to care how you'd feel if the shoe were on the other foot. You may not be a sociopath, but what do you call someone who persists in doing wrong even when he knows it's wrong?

[whichwayisup]

Of course I wish it could be different. I don't like the hiding and the sneaking. I'm not a sociopath. I wish I would have met her in a different way and that we wouldn't have given into our sexual/romantic desires. If we had met at the local Birdwatches Meetup group and exchanged friendly emails about....birds?...things would be different.

 

So we're doing the next best thing and holding each other accountable to make this something that can be healthy for us. And I'm NOT thinking about her at night anymore or having dreams about her. And I don't miss her on the weekends nearly as much as I used to. Things have definitely cooled off, and that's a good thing. It was destined to flame out soon anyway if things stayed that intense. Now the relationship is slower, easier, more relaxed, and hopefully, something that can last a long time.

 

You still aren't understanding what I'm getting at. Having a hidden 'friendship' and keeping it from your wife is wrong. Part of marriage is giving up certain things and one of them is having side flings, emotional or physical with another woman. If you two had met up through a bird watching site and she had met your wife, and all of you spent time together is fine, that's different. But in your circumstance, this woman you had an EA with and both of you are clinging to the 'friendship'. Feelings ARE being felt regardless if it's been discussed. You both are in denial and each of you are hurting your spouses by being dishonest and having this selfish friendship. that's my point - But you are hell bent on hanging on to her and nurturing a friendship with her instead of bonding with your wife. Your wife should be enough...

 

Men and women can be friends as long as they are boundaries, no sexual tension (flirting and discussing it), and being too emotionally involved/attached. Not sure how you and her actually managed to rid of all the feelings mentioned above and now all of a sudden be just friends. Again, I think you're in denial about it all. Less than a few weeks ago you were loving this woman and missing her like crazy.... now that the contact is constant you feel content and all is good again. That is the addictive feelings that go along with an EA which you're still having...you can call it friendship or whatever, it's still an EA and doing damage to your relationship and connection with your wife.

 

Nobody has mentioned sociopath, that thought never occurred to me. What comes to mind is selfishness and putting yourself first above your wife, marriage and kids. You want what you want and that's that. the thing is, when one is married you can't just have your cake and eat it too!

[CarrieT]

Yes just very recently. We missed each other and we're now talking like friends talk.

Oy vey.

 

No cutesy nicknames or sexual talk or anything like that.

Doesn't matter.

 

There's no way to bring it "above ground," at least for now, so no our SOs wouldn't like it, but as long as we can keep our talks away from the romantic area, I don't think we'll feel guilty anymore.

You *should* feel guilty and if you have to hide it from your wife, it is wrong.

 

Doesn't matter if it is romantic or not. It is time, energy, and feelings away from your marriage - which you were working on - that will distract you.

 

Ultimately, I predict, your marriage is going to fail.

[Dylon]

I kind felt that you will contact her. Either that or one day there's another like her. You did went to look for companion.

 

In all truthness, there's a lot of what's the right thing to do such as NC, but rarely it works in your situation. Like I said, I wouldn't have stopped even if I came here and got the same advices. Those feel good neurochemicals released when we connect with the AP is too additive and until there's a sudden "shock" to the addiction, it's hard to stay away. Maybe it will be a D day for you or for her. Even then, it still can be too much to hold back and give up. Sure I still have the urge to talk to the OW despite going through hell. I know I can't and I won't but the desire is strong. I had distractions and reasons to stay away: my wife, my family, her family, her pain, my emotional state. Yours aren't strong enough yet. It might come or if you are lucky, it dies off. I doubt it. I think you too will get into it deeper. There's no such thing as holding back with words and keeping a check on each other. In an A, the two make up the rules as they see fit to keep the survial of the A and to keep those "good" feelings going. Of course no one approves of the A so everyone else are labeled outsider, don't understand, ect. I've been there. We gave each other validation of our existence. We had rules too but when rules were broken, it was agreed between us so no consequences as long as no one knew about it.

 

I know you started this thread with the need for validation for keeping this "friend" but deep inside, you didn't feel right. Heck, I used the whole "friend" speech too with my wife. Of course I was in deeper but at an earlier stage, I could have said she is just a friend and it would have been partially true. In reality, she was a friend with "potential". Now you probably don't need this thread because you made your decision. Keep us updated anyway. I know I gave you my opinions and I said what I feel is right, but I understand that somethings with things like this, maybe it's a road that need to be experienced before a decision can be made. It's a road that I needed to take before it can end. In hindsight, you would think I feel that I should have been able to stop earlier. No, I still believe that I couldn't have stopped it without going through the course of events.

Edited November 24, 2015 by Dylon

[Marc878]

That sort of thing will suck the life out of your marriage.

 

Plus at some point someone will happen on the phone bill and boom!!!!

[MadJackBird]

I wrote this to you 8 days ago.

 

Stop selfishly thinking about yourself and start thinking about your BW. Yes she is a betrayed wife. You were in the midst of a full blown emotional adultery. Good job getting out of it... No stay NC for life and stop thinking about rekindling your full blown emotional adultery.

 

You are now back into your full blown emotional adultery. Don't believe me? Read up on the wikipedia page for emotional affair (UGH I hate the word affair, stop beating around the bush and call it what it is... You are committing adultery!) everything you say is from the definition of someone in an emotional adultery situation.

 

You never answered my questions about what your wife would think about your actions. You never answered how you would feel if the roles were reversed and your wife had secret friend that she shares intimate details of her life.

 

Do you even care about your wife? You say you love her, but you have a secret relationship behind her back. Doesn't sound very loving to me.

 

Stop justifying your emotional adultery saying it is to keep you accountable. If you need accountability find a male friend of counselor.

 

I don't know if you remember my story. All of my former wife's multiple physical adultery always started as emotional adultery/connections first. Every single one of them. Her newest husband is her latest AP. Now he's telling me she is returning to old Emotional/Physical AP and is cheating on him. Your lack of boundaries are not much different then hers.

 

Have you looked into yourself and figured out why you need the ego boost of emotional adultery?

 

Seek out IC. If you want to stay married (Which you strangely have told me multiple times you do?!?!) Then you need to come clean about your emotional adultery and seek out MC. Your marriage is built on a foundation of lies and deception. Not really solid.

 

:sick::sick:

 

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Emotional_affair