I need some help here

[Mz. Pixie]

J-

 

My intention was not to upset you, at ALL. I apologize profusely if I did.

 

My thinking is this- what possible reason could she have for doing this?? For talking as if she'd end the marriage because of not playing pool??? In my mind, you'd only end your marriage for something that is very very bad. Do you really think it's the pool game here or something more?

 

I don't think she's cheating, I'm just speculating as to why she would want to spend time with this guy? I'm sorry, but if it were me, I'd want to stay as far away from him as possible- for what he did to me and out of respect for my husband.

 

Time in his presence either way cannot be a good thing.

 

Soulmate made some good points about the restraining her. I don't think you did it hurtful but you did restrain her. I had my exh do something to me like that and in relating it to others in conversation they couldn't believe it. I didn't address that in my earlier posts.

 

The thing is- in her mind- she is possibly thinking "Okay, this man calls me when I'm at work, doesn't want me to hang out with my dad or my friends, calls my mom and my stepmom about my behavior" not to mention the earlier incident. Now, I'm not saying that she's looking at it the right way but someone who is already upset could twist all of that into "He's controlling me". I also take her stepmom's earlier comment "You treated her good before" or something like that to mean they don't think you're treating her so hot right now. Remember, they are only getting what she says and its depending on what kind of picture she's painting.

 

I certainly do not want you to leave her because of this! I want you to work on this marriage, if that's what you want and clearly it is!

 

I believe you need to determine why it is so important for her to be around this guy that she will lie to cover it up- that she will actually think about ending her marriage because of it- and that she feels she's entitled to be with him once a week. That's a good beginning point. She needs to give you some straight answers about what's going on and you have to start by asking her!

 

Some good questions might be-

 

1. Why is this guy and this pool game more important to you than our marriage?

 

2. Are you cheating or thinking of cheating with this guy?

 

3. Do you want to work on this marriage?

 

Sitting there and not having some concrete ideas is enough to drive a person crazy!

[jmargel]

I do believe her first reason in doing this was to spend time w/ her dad. As for her giving me the ultamatium, that's something that hurts alot. I never in my wildest dreams thought it would come to that. It's like she just doesn't care. She can either stay or go. And that's what she said. I know she is depressed, she takes meds for it but they worn off. She's been on them for two years.

 

I just know if this continues one day I will get upset. I will slip and say something snide about her spending time with him. I know myself. It's something I am not going to be able to handle. Even through all the bad times with him she said he's a 'friend'. Somehow I know what that really means. Maybe I'm being paranoid there but..

 

I can understand now where her thinking process is. It's not on the same level as mine. Actually it's probably way different than mine.

 

I'm just so worn out. Emotionally. I'm exhausted yet I can't sleep. Well I can't anyway since I"m at work. I just feel like I'm slipping into a depression.

[jmargel]

Originally posted by CurlyIam

Yes, but of other men. And you don't have to "play" the victim. You are her victim.

 

I think you owe it to yourself to try very hard to fix your mariage. I believe you mustn't give up untill you are convinced of it. Unless the love is over.

 

Just tell me: what are you to change of yourself? Didn't you already try to talk to her dad, to her family? Jeff, don't kid yourself. Accept that the only reason you're not doing anything isn't just because of love. IT's because you're afraid of losing her.

 

We're here for you and please know that no one here's judging you. Not me, anyway. You are simply doing what you have to do to save your marriage. Personally, I believe you're wrong, but then love can transform people in miraculous ways. I do wish you that, Jeff. I really do.

 

Hugs,

 

Curly

 

I don't know if you might consider this controlling or not but here are the things I do that I guess upset her

 

1) She works at a restuarant during the weekends, until closing. She walks out by herself. If she's late 30 mins or so, I'll call her to see if she's ok.

 

2) Just recently with this situation and what happened last week, I talked to her mom since she will give me sound advice.

 

3) Every once in awhile I'll email her or call her at work to see how her day is.

 

4) Another example on Tuesday. We were going to go out. I got home she wasn't there, she left a message saying she was going to practice pool with her (female) friend for awhile in town. I went there, thinking all would be cool. She didn't like that.

 

5) If she goes out with friends, I'll ask her some questions. Nothing in detail. Just asking if she had a good time, and sometimes jokingly ask if any guys hit on her, etc.. When she answers them she doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

 

6) If she's going out I'll ask her to give me a general time when she might be back or might ask where she's going. Or if she's late getting back I'll ask her where she's been. She hates that. I think it's being reasonable to ask those questions.

 

I guess from her this could be perceived as controlling to some degree. She is a very private person. I'm willing to let up on some of these things to work out the marriage. But this whole pool thing really has me upset.

[FolderWife]

She wants to hang out with her dad. Her dad asked one of his buddies (her ex bf) to be on the pool team. He asked his daughter, your wife, to be on the pool team.

 

She isn't on the team to hang out with her ex...she's on the team to hang out with her dad. In her eyes, you are asking her to drop time with her dad for you.

 

Also, her dad probably said, "Jmargel won't LET you do this...he's a lousy husband bla bla bla" and she's TRYING to prove him wrong.

 

Don't you trust her?

[FolderWife]

Originally posted by jmargel

I don't know if you might consider this controlling or not but here are the things I do that I guess upset her

 

1) She works at a restuarant during the weekends, until closing. She walks out by herself. If she's late 30 mins or so, I'll call her to see if she's ok.

 

If this were my husband, he'd think it was controlling. I on the other hand would be glad someone cared about me and was watching out for me.

2) Just recently with this situation and what happened last week, I talked to her mom since she will give me sound advice.

 

My husband wouldn't like this and neither would I.

3) Every once in awhile I'll email her or call her at work to see how her day is.

 

My husband would be irritated by this, but I would love it.

 

4) Another example on Tuesday. We were going to go out. I got home she wasn't there, she left a message saying she was going to practice pool with her (female) friend for awhile in town. I went there, thinking all would be cool. She didn't like that.

 

Oh puhlease...she's not an idiot. She knows you were going there to make sure 'he' wasn't with her...and even if you HONESTLY weren't, if it looks that way to me, it looks that way to her.

 

5) If she goes out with friends, I'll ask her some questions. Nothing in detail. Just asking if she had a good time, and sometimes jokingly ask if any guys hit on her, etc.. When she answers them she doesn't seem to have a problem with it.

 

This irritates me when my husband does it. If I want to tell him something, I'll tell him. He HATES when I do this. my mom used to do this and I hated it

 

However, some people like that. I like it when my best friend asks me questions, but not my husband, because my husband will use it against me, or make rude comments about it

 

6) If she's going out I'll ask her to give me a general time when she might be back or might ask where she's going. Or if she's late getting back I'll ask her where she's been. She hates that. I think it's being reasonable to ask those questions.

 

I guess from her this could be perceived as controlling to some degree. She is a very private person. I'm willing to let up on some of these things to work out the marriage. But this whole pool thing really has me upset.

 

If she hates it (as would I) she probably HATES that she's a grown woman, yet she can't be late without getting the third degree.

 

And why does the pool thing upset you? Because she won't just stop doing something that you're uncomfortable with? Like my husband won't just stop watching porn, because it makes me feel like sh#t? In her eyes, she's doing absolutely nothing wrong. YOU are the one who has a problem with it, so YOU work on YOURSELF. She's not cheating on you...she's playing pool with her dad. You want her to stop...you control freak.

 

I agree with your side of this THREE HUNDRED PERCENT. She should not do anything that makes you this uncomfortable. But from advice I've gotten on here a million times with the porn issue, I can conclude that this is the mindset of spouses.

[jmargel]

Thank you monday.. I needed to hear that.

[jmargel]

I still don't know what to say to her tonight so I wrote up a letter. I was thinking of just laying it on the table. Here are the contents, I'm sure you'll come up with revisions of it, which is fine. That's what I'm seeking.

 

Brandy,

 

I wanted to write this to you since I feel this is the best way to get some things out. Last night and

this morning I didn't say anything to you because I was still doing alot of thinking. I still am today.

I wrote this letter because sometimes it's easier for me since I have a tendency of screwing up my words.

I have to admit that I can be on the controlling side. It's not that I want to be and when those occasions

happen it's not because I mistrust you or I want to control you. I do it because more of a guess you can

say 'concerned' feeling for you. I know, it sounds like an excuse. I don't want to change who you are. I

called Carolyn and going to talk to her next week, not because just of us but myself as well. You deserve

to be with the 'me' that isn't that way.

 

As for what happened last Thursday I wish I could say 'Im sorry' enough times for you to forgive me and

move on from that event. I can see how that was controlling. Unless you were in immediate danger I

should have never done that. I do some stupid things at times. What I can promise you is that it won't happen again. I know words might not mean much now but I can only show that to you.

 

When I talked to Rhoda last night some things she said were true about how it can be considered

controlling by standing in front of the door. But Brandy, one thing you have to know is that I would

never, ever hit you or restrain you physically. She didn't accuse me of that but for about 10-15 minutes

she was talking about how her ex-husband was that way first and hit her later on and that it was a symptom

of me doing that to you. I told her I'm not her ex-husband, that this was a rare occurance. My ex was

very abusive to me and I never hit her. That's something either of you two can ask her.

 

She said something else that really opened my eyes to something. She mentioned that she thinks I stole

you away from your ex. I told her that he wasn't there for you and did not treat you the way you should be

treated. She then mentioned 'Well you treated her good while she was with him'. And I then told her it

was because I care for her and this is how your suppose to treat someone that you think is special. That

Brandy has a mind & a heart of her own and she fell in love with me. It was her decision alone to be with

me & marry me. And that marrying you was the best decision I have ever made. It's the happiest day in my life and think about it often.

 

I don't know what she told you about the call but it basically ended when I asked her if they wanted us

split up. The reason why I asked that was because of all the things that was being said. She said no,

then hung up.

 

Brandy you know me better than anyone else. You know that I have nothing but love for you. God, I hope she's not scaring you by saying how I could turn abusive. The calling when you are 30 mins late from work, etc.. will stop. I can see how you consider that controlling as well.

 

As for this whole pool thing. If I could turn back the clock and not have that night happen I would in a

heartbeat. I would have loved to have been on that team with you. It's something we could have been doing together and now it's something we're not. I didn't know where to have drawn the line with your dad, and though I know him I didn't know him well enough to know all this was going to happen.

 

As for what's going on now. You lying to me really hurt me bad. And yes, if you would have told me

before, truthfully I would have been not happy and probably would have said I don't want you on the team if he's going to be on it. But that's a natural reaction, anyone would feel that way.

 

Brandy, I can't make decisions for you. If you still want on the team then I hope you have a good time

on it even if you don't want me at the matches. I trust you in making the right decisions while playing.

Does it bother me? I would be lying if I said it didn't. This is something I don't like. I would never

ask you to accept me shutting you out while I played games with an ex and I can't believe you really would

ask it of me even considering that circumstances. Will it cause problems between us while this is going on? Truthfully, I don't know. It's hard to be comfortable when I know you are going to see your ex on a weekly basis and knowing now what Rhoda said and knowing how your dad feels. I'm not going to nag you with questions or hound you before or after each match. Like I said before I trust you in making the right decisions and that you have our marriage at your best interest.

 

I get the feeling that you are scared to stand up to your dad or rhoda when you think they are wrong.

And considering the circumstances I understand. All I ask is if you feel they are saying something about

our marriage that isn't right to please let them know. They will listen to you.

 

That said my main importance above everything and everyone else is you. You are my #1 priority in my

life. I need you in so many ways. You are not only my best friend but my true love. My soulmate. I know

our frustration levels can get pretty high at times but I know it's because we are still learning to

communicate with each other. Everyone goes through that, it's a learning process.

 

With that said, I am not going to plead or beg for you to be with me. If you love me & want to be with

me you will make that choice. Personally I married you for better or for worse and right now I admit that

it's kinda on the worse side at least with what's recently gone on. It's not because of you personally,

it's because of the whole mess of things. I know you understand. Although I don't like what is going on I

can say I am not at that line where I want to give up.

 

If you want to talk about it tonight just let me know. I'll listen. If not then that's ok.

 

Love,

 

Jeff

[quankanne]

1) She works at a restuarant during the weekends, until closing. She walks out by herself. If she's late 30 mins or so, I'll call her to see if she's ok

 

and

 

6) If she's going out I'll ask her to give me a general time when she might be back or might ask where she's going. Or if she's late getting back I'll ask her where she's been. She hates that. I think it's being reasonable to ask those questions

 

can be construed as "he's trying to conrol me!" Your best bet is to catch her when she's calm and gently explain to her that your goal isn't to rile her or make her think you need to have her on a leash, but that you worry about her because you care very much for her. And that you know what sometimes happens to people if they get caught unawares by someone who doesn't think twice about hurting or killing if that person is in their way.

 

2) Just recently with this situation and what happened last week, I talked to her mom since she will give me sound advice

 

very understandable, because who better than her mom to give you an idea what it was like for her growing up. I talk to DH's sister or my guy friends to help me figure out my husband sometimes, and I don't think I'm betraying anyone. Just be careful that you don't portray what's going on as something completely different or that you overwhelm her mother by having her feel like she's in the midle of things ...

 

3) Every once in awhile I'll email her or call her at work to see how her day is

 

would you like to give lessons to MY husand? I'll even pay you a stipend! to me, nothing says "I love you" better than an unexpected, just had to hear your voice cause I missed you phone call. Though, coming from your wife's background, I can see where she'd be suspicious of those calls and consider them abuse or harassment.

 

4) Another example on Tuesday. We were going to go out. I got home she wasn't there, she left a message saying she was going to practice pool with her (female) friend for awhile in town. I went there, thinking all would be cool. She didn't like that

 

and

 

5) If she goes out with friends, I'll ask her some questions. Nothing in detail. Just asking if she had a good time, and sometimes jokingly ask if any guys hit on her, etc.. When she answers them she doesn't seem to have a problem with it

 

she sees this as you infringing on her alone time, which is highly valued by just about everyone.

 

when you get to the point where you feel you can talk with her without being upset or angry, maybe y'all should lay down some ground rules: that each of you get your private time, but with the understanding that this doesn't mean doing something that hurts the marriage. That even as you disagree with what the other person does, that doesn't affect the love-basis of your marriage. That it's all right to disagree, but you have to figure out some way to reconcile the situation to where both parties feel the solution is agreeable (i.e., compromise). That as much as you need or love your family, your family of two comes first.

 

I realize I'm preachhing to the choir here, that you have already thought these things through, but maybe you can take a look at what you want and find different, less-threatening-to-her way of presenting it to your wife. You're always going to have to deal with her incessant need to prove herself lovable or worthy of her daddy, possibly even her ex, but with enough perseverance you can tip the balance in your favor. As much as it hurts to think this, when it comes to a point of no return and your marriage cannot be helped, there's no disgrace in walking away for good. Because in order to survive, both parties have to work at it, period.

[Mz. Pixie]

J-

 

In marriage you are accountable to one another. She is accountable to you and you are accountable to her. That's the way it should be. Irregardless of people liking to be independent, yada yada, you are to be ONE. That's a concept that alot of people do not get about marriage.

 

I don't believe any of these were controlling. The only thing I would call borderline is when you went there when she was practicing with her friend- but even then, she had plans with you and blew them off to go do that. You naturally do not have 100 percent trust in her because of her lies. Who can blame you for that? I certainly cannot.

 

Right now- what is she giving to this relationship?? It seems like you're giving a fair percentage and willing to compromise. What is SHE doing for you lately?

 

I'm in a exclusive relationship leading up to marriage right now, you can bet I'd be upset if my bf came in really late one night (without calling to say he was running late) and didn't want to account for his time. I trust him but I wouldn't like it, and I wouldn't like more his not fessing up to why he was running late to begin with.

 

Because of his exwife cheating during "girls night out" you can for sure bet he would ask me where I went and what all went down too. There is a difference though- I would be like, "We went so and so" and freely give up the information.

 

Alot of this is consideration, and you're not being controlling to expect it. It's what people who are MARRIED do. IMO, she is acting a bit like a single woman who comes and goes as she pleases.

 

I hate this for you-

[jmargel]

I've told her in counseling before that the reason why I hang on so tight is because I feel she makes me insecure because of the things she says to me. She has backed off some which I have noticed but very, very rarely she'll say something like 'Im so lucky to have you'. She'll tell me she loves me. She's mentioned a couple times that I need to back off and let her come to me. It's hard because I'm an affectionate person. I tend to smother her at times and it's because I love her so much. I was accustomed to doing that with my ex and she loved it. Brandy is totally opposite.

 

I equate affection with love. And when I don't get any of it I feel like she doesn't love me as much as she used to. I'm not just talking about sex. Stuff like where she'll curl upto me or take & hold my hand. She doesn't do that very often and I love initmacy. If she were to show me that and know that she appreciates me and loves me for who I am alot of this insecurity of mine which turns into me calling her, etc would stop. I've told her this, but her reaction is 'You need to stop what you are doing first THEN I'll do my part'. But I try and maybe I don't have enough patience but if a couple of days goes by w/o any touching etc. then I get scared a distance is between us.

 

Maybe I'm just talking like a fool. I don't know. I just wish I could move away somewhere else with her.

[Debster]

I would advise against that letter. To me it appears as if you are acting like a poor puppy who got kicked and are taking the blame. Your wife's actions are wrong. What her family is doing is wrong. Your behaviour might be a bit controlling and/or clingy but it is NOT in the same leagues as the lying and disrespect your wife has shown you and your marriage.

 

To fix your part of the problem I recommend that instead of admitting it in a letter, do something about it.

 

As hard as it may be, I advice you to leave it alone. Don't ignore her or be mean to her but go about your business. Let her miss you. Let her realize what she's missing. Get a life. Start spending time with friends. Start doing hobbies. Start living. Stop clinging to her and looking to her for your happiness. It seems to me like you've been too pre-occupied with her wants and needs that you've become a bit of a whipping boy that she has lost respect for.

 

I'm not writing this to be harsh. Rather to get you to see another side of the situation.

Good luck.

[CurlyIam]

Great point, Deb. Stop breathing her air and let her miss you. It's pretty obvious that she hardly ever reads your email since you write her so often.

 

So start having a life. Not including her.

[jmargel]

I won't give her the letter. I just wished I knew what was on her mind and what her true intentions are.

[jmargel]

Curly.. I try. She works 40 hrs a week, plus works 3 nights as well. Alot of the other times she's at her dads. So I get Tues-Thurs with her. I usually go visit my parents on Sunday, where as most of the time she stays home since I know she needs time for herself.

 

Being with her those 3 nights a week to me isn't overbearing. Maybe I'm wrong though.

[New_Wife]

Jeff (because I forget the entirety of your screen name)

 

I hurt for you when I read all of that. FYI.

 

I still endorse my prior suggestion that you take this weekend ALONE and get some calm in your soul. Your thoughts and emotions are all racketing around inside your head like a handball on crack - if I read you right. This problem - it'll wait for you to get back. And perhaps, with some quiet alone time of her own - wondering where you are and what you are feeling - your wife will get some clarity or perspective as well.

 

But I've got to tell you - I also agree with the poster with the funny nun avitar who told you to inject some life back into your own life. If she left you, what are you? If your answer is nothing, that's a huge problem. No one person can be another's everything - the responsibility/burden there is simply too much. Now if she left and you'd be sad - well shoot - that's normal. But if you'd find yourself without another thing in your life, you've got a HUGE codependancy crisis there. I know all about those - it's a family tradition here in my neck of the woods.

 

It's been my experience that any decision made in the heat of anger or pain/fear, etc is the wrong one. Never make life decisions when you're Hungry Angry Lonely or Tired (HALT) - I can't claim that one, it came from a group of folks much wiser than I. Please take 48 hours to take care of YOURSELF and only YOURSELF and then see if this seems any clearer to you.

[JadeStar]

"I just wished I knew what was on her mind and what her true intensions are."

 

She probably doesn't even know whats on her mind or what her intensions are either. Shes confused just as you are. I don't know if she ever got indivdual counseling for what happened to her in her childhood, but I would imagine until she does and until shes really willing to work on herself and finding closure with the past, shes not gonna be happy in any relationship. Be it with you or someone else. New Wife made a point earlier, and I hate to say it, but if shes acting like this with you because of her past, I can't imagine what the situation would be like if you all had kids. My guess is she would treat them like she has you. Until shes helped I just see it like that. Once again I'm sorry about all this, I know you feel stuck between a rock and hard place. It sucks!

 

 

Jade

[Mz. Pixie]

You're not talking like a fool, hon. You're hurt and trying to process. Are you sending her the letter/giving it to her?

 

I know that my exh and I used to have that whole argument. I wanted intimacy and he wanted sex. That was always his excuse too- you do your part and THEN I'll do mine. Problem is, I kept trying that and he never returned the favor. So, I know how you feel.

 

You guys did MC? When?

[Ladyjane14]

I agree...you should probably not give her the letter.

 

You have to think about what her example of "manhood" has been.....club-wielding knuckle-draggers in the forms of her father and her ex.

 

If you're overly emotional with her, she might think you're effeminate. Geez, she can't possibly be accustomed to guys who will share their feelings. She' not appreciative of how great it is not to have to play the 'emotional-guessing-game' with a man. She has no frame of reference.

 

I'm not suggesting AT ALL, that you don't tell her how you're feeling. You definately should. Maybe just a bit less verbose. Make her work for it a bit. Present her with a little more challenge. You know, let her DRAG it out of you.

[jmargel]

Thank you for your replies. I'm writing from home. She came home & is taking a nap. She didn't "want to talk about it". So I'm not pushing it. I have to wait for the right time. When it all hits me I just feel tears swell up in my eyes but I stop myself from crying. I normally never cry. It's hurting me this much. If she saw that she would just sport an attitude. TY for all your help, I'll be on tomorrow.

 

*hugs*

[WithOrWithoutYou]

I would also advise against a letter like the one you just proposed. She doesn't need to hear from you how controlling you are, and how sorry you are about it and how you are going to change. That is what abusive guys say, and you are not one of those. I have seen those in action, and had to deal with people like that, and you sound much better than that to me. She hears that you are just "another" abusive guy enough from her dad, and if she is going to resign herself to being with "just another abusive guy who vows to change", she's got a lot more history with her abusive ex-husband (who her dad IS trying to re-pair her up with) than she has with you. That is NOT the stance you need to take. Stop apologizing, as you have done nothing major wrong. Yes, there is a situation or two you could have handled better, but after what she has put you through, I think you have done pretty damn well.

[WithOrWithoutYou]

Originally posted by Monday

She wants to hang out with her dad. Her dad asked one of his buddies (her ex bf) to be on the pool team. He asked his daughter, your wife, to be on the pool team.

 

She isn't on the team to hang out with her ex...she's on the team to hang out with her dad. In her eyes, you are asking her to drop time with her dad for you.

 

Also, her dad probably said, "Jmargel won't LET you do this...he's a lousy husband bla bla bla" and she's TRYING to prove him wrong.

 

Don't you trust her?

 

If I understand your post correctly, I disagree with most of what you have said in this particular post.

 

1. Yes, she wants to hang out with her dad, but she also wants to hang out with the ex. That is pretty obvious, from her two prior secret rendezvous with him.

 

2. Her dad probably did say something like what you propose that he said. He did it to control her, because he knew it would likely result in her spending time with the ex, and he knew that no self-respecting husband would abide the sort of behavior that Jmargel's wife is engaging in. He knew that it would make any NORMAL man (no abusive tendencies required) very angry and insecure, and her father wants badly to destroy the relationship between jmargel and his wife, and see her get back together with her abusive ex-husband, who as you pointed out, is also his buddy. It does not surprise me that her dad is also an abusive guy. She learned as a little girl, exactly how a marriage "should work", which probably explains her tendency to find any excuse to return to her abusive guy (she knows at heart that Jmargel is not one of those, which is why she is not respecting him, and is treating him like dogfood). THIS is also why people in abusive relationships should get out of them, and why staying for the sake of the kids is always a bad idea. The children grow up to be people with the characteristics of Jmargel's wife, who will seek out an abusive mate, and toss away a guy who treats her like a human being (i.e. like Jmargel).

 

3. She isn't trying to prove him wrong. She may have rationalized in her own mind that is what she is trying to do, but she obvisouly wants to spend time not only with her father (who is playing matchmaker between her and her ex), but also wants to spend time with her ex to see where it goes, as she has attempted to do this in secret on two prior occasions. She just doesn't want to have to be secretive about it anymore, has calculated that Jmargel loves her enough to "take it" (must keep decent guy as backup plan in case abusive guy won't have her now or that doesn't happen), and is so sure she wants to try that, she is willing to throw her marriage to the wind if necessary in order to make seeing where it can go with her ex happen like dear old dad (who is again, also controlling her) wants. She is requiring Jmargel to either "take" the extreme disrespect she is showing him as her husband, or effectively end the relationship by asking her to move out. Jmargel is quite understandably searching for a way to do neither of those things, even though those are the two "options" she has effectively given him. The way she probably sees it, either she will end up with the ex again where she gets the drama she subsconsciously craves, or Jmargel will start acting out (as many, even non-abusive, people would act out, when presented with this set of behaviors from their spouse), and she will get her drama from him. It is starting to look like she may be an ill woman, probably as a result of the years spent with her abusive guy (the ex she will now be shooting pool and God knows what else with, under supervision of dear old Dad who wants to break up her marriage), and probably does not consciously know what she is doing. Oh, she knows what she is doing, as in what actions she is taking, and that it could result in the end of her marriage, but I'm not sure she fully understands the why. She may also not be doing these things for the PURPOSE of hurting her husband (Jmargel), but she IS doing them with a reckless disregard for his feelings, and her marriage, and is showing him extreme disrespect.

 

4. Jmargel has no reason to trust his wife at this point. She has given him reason to believe she will sneak around on him to meet the ex, actually done so in the recent past with this same ex, has given him absolutely no reassurances that she will not do so in the future, told him he was easy to lie to (implying that she would do so again if it was easier), and told him that what he does not know would not hurt him. Would you trust your husband if he did those things, and told you those things?

 

Perhaps you could clarify if I have misread something you have said.

[tokyo]

Originally posted by jmargel

I've told her in counseling before that the reason why I hang on so tight is because I feel she makes me insecure because of the things she says to me. She has backed off some which I have noticed but very, very rarely she'll say something like 'Im so lucky to have you'. She'll tell me she loves me. She's mentioned a couple times that I need to back off and let her come to me. It's hard because I'm an affectionate person. I tend to smother her at times and it's because I love her so much. I was accustomed to doing that with my ex and she loved it. Brandy is totally opposite.

 

I equate affection with love. And when I don't get any of it I feel like she doesn't love me as much as she used to. I'm not just talking about sex. Stuff like where she'll curl upto me or take & hold my hand. She doesn't do that very often and I love initmacy. If she were to show me that and know that she appreciates me and loves me for who I am alot of this insecurity of mine which turns into me calling her, etc would stop. I've told her this, but her reaction is 'You need to stop what you are doing first THEN I'll do my part'. But I try and maybe I don't have enough patience but if a couple of days goes by w/o any touching etc. then I get scared a distance is between us.

 

Maybe I'm just talking like a fool. I don't know. I just wish I could move away somewhere else with her.

I recognize myself in your words, but I also see where she's coming from. I only skipped through your email, but it was enough to confirm my view. In order to accept your love and pain, she would have to accept her wrongdoing first and with all your pleading and pushing and begging to understand you, you only confirm her opinion that you are weak. I think deep down inside she knows that she's wrong, she doesn't want to admit it though. It's not only love that she needs, she also needs someone who is independent and strong, strong, but not angry.

 

You explain yourself too much in your letter. She didn't ask for explanations, she is just accusing you of doing things wrongs. If you continue to give explanations you will look weak. Next time she brings up your "misdeeds", ask her if she wants explanations or talk with you about things. When she says yes, that's when you should give your explanations, not before. Stop bugging her with what she did wrong, she knows it already. If you shove her your pain and your anger in her face, she's not going to hear you and she's not going to admit that she did something wrong. Why should she, she just got the confirmation she needed to justify her lies, you're controlling, and that's why she has to hide things from you. She's in defensive mode, because of her past.

 

You need to show her you love her enough whenever she needs you, but that you won't control her like her father did (threatening to leave your marriage is a big no-no, it doesn't matter that she's doing the same, because she won't see it as the same. She will see it as you trying to blackmail her to do get control over her, while her threat to leave is her way to preserve her freedom.) Also that you're strong enough not to put up with her crap. If you manage to be all that, then you give her a better alternative than her father and she will choose you.

 

I think it's hard to accept the fact that when we're clinging to someone that we're not that attractive anymore. We're at our most vulnerable state and we get rejected. It would be wonderful if she would wake up and see how much you love her, but by pursuing her you're not achieving much. Few people would realize they were wrong and come to accept the truth, because they also had some reasons for their actions. Stupid illogical ones maybe, but still. Few people do things with the intention of hurting someone else. If you really want her to stay, you might have to put your pain and your need to be loved and treated in a respectful way aside and deal with her needs first. That would be a really big sacrifice that you have to do.

 

I don't think your wife is creating all this drama with intention. If you stay calm, it will pass. Don't accept it, but also don't start playing this game with her. If you're a good and understanding man, who never pushes her or smothers her, she'll stay. If she wasn't convinced somehow that you were a good choice, she wouldn't have married you. Don't let your insecurity convince you otherwise.

[jmargel]

Thank you again for your posts. All of these have made alot of good points and helped me when I talked to her last night. I didn't give her the letter, but I basically told her some of the things that were in it.

 

She came home last night, I was exhausted just from everything going through my head the past couple of days. I slept until about 8:30 and we went out to get something to eat. On the way I didn't say much to her. I've been withdrawn, its because I can feel depression setting it. She kept asking me what was on my mind. I then told her everything.

 

I told her what her lying has done to me, how this current situation is bothering me alot how I have been through a range of emotions. I told her that I've gone from really thinking about ending it to looking to see what I've been doing as well. I also told her I talked to my dad about all of this. She wanted to know what he thought, I guess she values his opinion. I told her he wasn't happy about the situation. I then told her that even though you lied to me that I have to trust you in your decision making. She mentioned that she didn't talk to him and that she was going to keep it strictly pool related. That she's going because of her dad. She said that next week she won't have to play at the same table as him anymore. I just have a feeling though it's just a matter of time before he starts to make his move.

 

I told her that I would never shut you out from coming to a game if I was playing on the same team as my ex. I also told her about what her step-mom said to me on the phone. She said she heard most of the conversation herself and didn't agree with what she said. She said her dad is scary even though he loves her and that she's scared to stand upto him. I told her if they are saying things to you about our marriage you have to stand upto them.

 

I then told her that I have to admit that I do call her frequently and it's because I care about her. Although I can see how it might seem controlling to other people. I told her that I am going to stop this. That I am going to see a counselor, hoping that she would go. I told her about this whole pool thing that I don't have a good feeling about this and that I don't know if this is going to strain us.

 

She just says that she loves me and she wouldn't just marry anyone. That I can't let my fear worry me into the ground. Well it's still hard knowing everything she has done to me. I'm not the total victim here but she needs to take responsibility for what she has done. I don't think she has. The rest of the night went by fine. I'm just totally drained. This morning she was moody. It's because neither of us have slept much.

 

I'm going to talk to my dad and have him talk to her. I'm hoping he might put some sense into her. My dad is more rational while my mom is more emotional. My dad is the type to kind of lay it out like 'If 'A' happens and 'B' happens, then there's almost a 100% chance 'C' is going to happen'. He's easy to talk to and laid back.

 

Personally I don't think I am going to be able to last through the summer with this happening. Even when it's over there's no guarantee that this won't continue onto the fall. Before I do anything I need to talk to the counselor. Last night Brandy made me feel good about ourselves. Although that's something I need from her everyday. Whether or not she is truthful in what she says, that I don't know. I have no choice but to force myself to trust her. I just wish she would take into consideration the way I am feeling.

 

Last night as well, my German Shepherd (she's been sick this past week) was acting fine until out of the blue she was hunched over in a sitting position just crying out in pain. God, it was awful. It's like someone was stabbing her with a knife. I never saw her like this. I called the vet right away and it took awhile for a dr. to call me back. In the mean time I was able to get her to lay down. After about 10 minutes I called her over to me, and slowly she walked over. My heart is breaking over this. The vet called and said it could be a number of things. They'll do more tests next week when she goes in for her rabies shot. We are still awaiting the blood work results from her too.

[Mz. Pixie]

Awwww, sorry about the puppy! Do you think it could be arthritis?? Some dogs have hip problems. We had a fiest one time that had to have aspirin everyday!

 

Does Brandy need to work this second job financially??? If not, I suggest that she quits this so you can spend more time together. As it is, you guys don't have alot and it doesn't make sense to me how she would always want to be away. I may not have the whole picture about your relationship but do you get what I'm saying?

 

I long to be with my bf. He works three jobs right now because he's a single dad and has a home etc- trying to get out of debt. He's helped me with expenses for the kids. I can't work another job because of my kids schedule and I have no family to help. When we have a chance to be together that's all either one of us can think about. I can't imagine either one of us blowing the other off for whatever reason. He likes to play golf, but when I don't have the kids and we can have some couple time, he's not running out to the golf course to play. I went through the whole married but living separate lives thing the first time and it's just not for me. True, everyone should have some private time and their own things to do- but where is your marriage falling on her lists of priorities????

 

DO NOT feel that you are the bad person here. You are NOT. None of the lies etc were your fault.

 

I'm glad you're feeling somewhat better. What gets me is that you sat there and told her you weren't sure what this would do to your relationship and she still didn't offer to quit. I would have been like, "Well, if it's that serious I would hate for it to cause a problem in our marriage- let's reach a compromise" I would have been trying to fix it!!!

[jmargel]

Also that you're strong enough not to put up with her crap. If you manage to be all that, then you give her a better alternative than her father and she will choose you.

 

So how am I suppose to accomplish this without her thinking I am controlling? It's this issue of her being on this pool team with him. What she is doing IS crap. It IS wrong in alot of ways. I have alot of anger and resentment towards her for this. If I show this however it won't be her thinking 'OMG what have I done' it'll be 'Look at him, insecure controlling jerk'.

 

What am I suppose to be doing these Monday nights for the next 3 months while I know she is at some pool hall/bar with her ex? Knowing that he has nothing to lose in all of this and having her dad & step-mom try to get him to act like a part of their family with her in it. That's majorily messed up. No hobby is going to take my mind off of this fact of what might be possibiliy going on.

 

I told her last night in regards to this, that I won't hound her with questions afterwards. But I know my attitude is going to be extremely distant and mistrustworthy of her. I can tell myself I need to force myself to trust her in this but in all reality I don't think I can. My mind is going to be wandering way too much.

 

It's like I get screwed either way. And what about when this ends? Do I tell her I don't want her on the team if he's on it? What if she decides to do that again this fall? If I let her do this for the summer I know her dad is going to try to continue it to the fall season when it starts up again.

 

Right now I need some way to cope for myself. I hate feeling this way. No one should have to go through this.