I need some help here

[jmargel]

You just make me feel like giving up on her and our marriage completely.

[whichwayisup]

Jeff, don't let ANYBODY make you feel that way.

 

You love her, she's your life. You took vows and you have them in your heart. Don't ever give up!

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by jmargel

You just make me feel like giving up on her and our marriage completely.

 

I'm confused! Don't give up though. It's your life, your decision. Until you want to give up, don't let words on a screen change your mind.

[jmargel]

I know.. I'm not. It's just disheartening because it seems like we'll never truly get through all this stuff that is trying to stop us from being happy together.

[blind_otter]

Here's a thought.

 

Maybe you never will get through all the stuff. But you can love each other "in spite of" the stuff.

[jmargel]

TY Blind_Otter. I need to hear those encouraging words at times. I wrote her poems and this is the poem I wrote her when I proposed to her. I just re-read it and thought maybe I can show you all, even though things might be tough this is what I truly feel about her:

 

You are my heartbeat and my strength.

You are an angel sent from above

You are the only true love I know.

And you will always be my love

 

You saved me from all my heartache,

You wiped away my tears.

You kissed away the bad dreams

And blew away my fears.

 

Sometimes I wonder what I did to deserve you.

To know you is to know a mystery.

To hold you, my one true wish.

And to kiss your lips so softly

 

Others can't understand it,

How we fell so fast.

Showing all the people,

That our love overcomes our past.

 

So now it comes time,

To prove this love so true.

Test after test, we show others

That we're stronger together,

Stronger than we ever knew.

 

You are my other half,

The missing link of me.

You complete my soul,

Like no other can ever be.

 

YOU are what true love is

And I know this is meant to be

So I take your hand and bow on knee

Will you marry me?

[whichwayisup]

J, I remember your past poems...This one, like your others, speak from your heart and they are incredible. Maybe channel this sad energy into your poetry as you definately have the talent for it.

 

If my husband ever wrote me something half as beautiful my heart would melt. Just a shame my H isn't romantic and will never write me like you wrote your wife.

[jmargel]

Well last night she came home.. I just had one question for her: "When are you packing up your things and leaving?"

 

It started when I got home, she left a message on our machine saying she was going to shoot pool with some co-workers. That was at 4:30. 7:00 rolls around, no sign of her. Called her cell, she turned it off. I looked for her in the next town over at some of the places. She wasn't there.

 

I knew something was up I went to this place where her ex lives. This place where people shoot pool. It's along a very busy highway, thousands of cars travel it a day. It was about 8:30 it was dark out. I didn't see her car and decided to turn around. I pull out onto the highway and noticed a car behind me. It looked like her headlights from her car. Speed limit was 55, so I slowed down to 40, the car behind me slowed as well. So I pulled along side the road and the car passed by. It was her!

 

I decided to follow her, she knew it was me. She drove into her dad's place. I got out, her step-mom runs up the driveway to me and I see her & her ex get out of her car! Her step-mom is like 'Jeff I have no clue what's going on'. I said 'She's ****ing cheating on me!'. I was pissed. But didn't yell. Of course her dad comes out so I was waiting for the showdown. Her step-mom asked me to leave.

 

Went to my folks upset. They don't live far from there. I came home about an hour later. She arrived 30 mins later. Walks in, doesn't say a word and just smiles. Hmm.. I called her over. 'Brandy, I have one question for you. When are you packing up your things?'. She's like 'You want me to leave?'. I told her I was done with this I'm not going to be cheated on like this. She's like I didn't cheat on you, I called him up because I wanted to get a pool stick and my dad wasn't home and I knew he would give me advice. I said you gotta be kiddding me. I'm like where's the pool stick? She's like at my dad's place, I can show you the receipt.

 

I then just laid it on her. I told her that if she wants to be married to me she needs to change things. My dad last night told me she needs counseling bad, I mentioned that to her. I said that I'm not living a marriage like your mom and dad did. I'm done being lied to and disrespected. That I deserve better than this. I'm tired of the attitude and the remarks about me being controlling and insecure. It's because you make me that way. She said well if I leave I want a divorce. I said fine. I'm truly at the end. I'm tired of giving into this marriage and getting nothing out of it. This marriage isn't about YOU it's about us.

 

This morning I asked her what is it going to be? And she's said it's my choice and she'll go along with what I say. I told her I want to work on this but she really needs to change. I called off of work, I have to clear my head. She got ready and just looked at me before leaving for work.

 

Right now I don't know if she's telling me the truth. She told me that she went out w/ her co-workers for an hour & called him to get a pool stick. This place was supposedly an hour away (btw I am going to see that receipt). I asked her if she cheated on me at all and she said no. I'm like what in the f*ck would possess you to call him and lie to me like this after all we are going through? Of course she tries to give me those innocent eyes and say I just wanted to get a pool stick.

 

I'm so pissed right now. Yea, I know.. More of the same from the past. I talked to her mom last night and she told me to just tell her to leave. This isn't a healthy marriage because of what she's doing. I don't know what I am going to do right now. I truly thought everything was over last night. I still don't trust her in what everything happened last night. I don't have any trust for her now. She ruined it. I guess from what she said before on how she thought it was so easy to lie to me and how what I don't know won't hurt me.. She believes. All I told her is the chances of me pulling in front of you on that highway are about the same as winning the lottery. That it's a sign to stop the damn lying.

 

I'm going to talk to the counselor tonight. My sanity is just about gone.

[CurlyIam]

She knows you're not gonna leave. You've played this game before and didn't go through with the threat. I'm afraid you're actually gonna have to make her leave in order for her to see you're serious.

 

Sorry, Jeff, I really do think this is the healthy way to go. You need to let her go in order for her to come back to you. This is not about the pool stick. She saw him AGAIN, without talking to you. Her dad could have done it, her mom could have done it, her friends could have taken that pool stick.

 

Don't LIE to yourself.

 

I think she is cheating, Jeff. I'm really sorry. I really am convinced she is cheating. Otherwise she would have reacted differently, she would have been scared and hurt and ... she just doesn't give a damn anymore.

 

Please leave. It's the right time.

[jmargel]

Honestly I am still thinking about telling her to leave. I need to clear my head some. It's time that I start thinking about myself now too.

[tokyo]

I disagree with Curly, I don't think she's cheating. She sabotaging her marriage, that's true, but what her motivations are no one knows and no one can understand them who hasn't gone through this amount of abuse. I doubt that she she herself knows why she's acting like this. I can't offer much solution, but I'm damn sure that with this girl you're not achieving much by yelling at her. That is only going to raise her defense mechanisms and rather to obey to your commands she's going to let you go, that may hurt like hell, but she's not going to give in to your demands. Also asking her to go with you to counseling is a demand. If you don't have anything to lose anyway, why don't you give her some space now and let her come to her senses on her own? Include her opinion in this process. That's how I feel you should handle the situation, but if you try the radical method, that might help, too, I don't know. I'd ensure though that this is a really radical breakup where she has to deal with completely everything on her own. Drop from the face of the earth, maybe that will wake her up.

 

By the way, her mom seems hardly better than her dad. I mean, she continued this relationship with this guy whose son raped her daughter? And she let her other boyfriend molest her child at home? What kind of mom does this???? It strikes me as weird that you ask this woman for advice about her daughter.

[CurlyIam]

The truth is, you're in no condition to make a decision right now. IF you leave her, it's because of your hurt, if you stay with her, you'll lose your self respect and blame her for it.

 

I think you should just separate. Take a time off. Go somewhere and think. Put your life in order. If, of course, you bare the thought of not controlling her, not seeing her, not knowing if she still sees her ex or not.

 

Take a break, you're at your wits end!

[jmargel]

Kooky,

 

The guy who raped her was the son of a woman that her dad was dating, not her mom. The only reason why I talk to her mom for advice is because she raised Brandy and she lived with her ex-husband (Brandy's dad) for 9 years. She sees the similarities between them.

 

I told her last night that I really wish she would goto counseling with me, then let it go. I don't see how asking her to goto counseling is a demand. She values my dad's opinion so I just told her what he told me. I'm just tired of all the uncertainity. If we do end it I will not contact her at all. I will not be there for her. I can't. I haven't yelled at her, and won't. I do all my anger venting somewhere, where no one can hear me.

 

I just feels like I have an angel on my one shoulder & a devil on my other. The devil is saying she is cheating, leave her, you don't trust her she'll never treat you good. Then the angel says she does truly love you, she needs help and if you stay you'll end up in a great marriage although it will take work she will be a better person for it.

[blind_otter]

I feel for you J - you are in a tough spot. I think I said this previously - in many ways there have been a lot of people enabling her, keeping her from hitting rock bottom. Yes (I agree with kooky) - she could be sabotaging her relationship because she is emotionally crippled. I have done that myself. It takes courage to live through what she has lived through, but also -- it takes more courage to face those demons.

 

I hope you come to a resolution, I really do.

[whichwayisup]

I feel horrible for you Jeff...That is just sad news the way everything went down.

 

May I make a suggestion? Take it or leave it, it is up to you...

 

Have you POURED it all out there for her? I mean shown her your absolute LOWEST. Showing her all your sadness, even crying. Maybe if she actually sees that pain she's inflicted on you it will get to her?

 

Anyway, just a suggestion.

 

Hugs to you cuz you need one.

 

WWIU

[billybadass36]

I really feel for you, J. I've been sorta in your shoes a LONG time ago with a similar situation. My then-fiancee didn't have the courage to end the relationship straight out, so she engaged in a course of action that she knew would kill the relationship.

 

You cannot shoulder the burden of this relationship and all of its problems on your own. You cannot be a doormat for the rest of your life. This isn't a marriage by any stretch of the imagination, and I only hope you come to realize this sooner rather than later. You've done everything you can EXCEPT seperate. That's the only thing you haven't tried to get her to come around.

 

Try to extract yourself from the situation and advise yourself on your next course of action like you would advise someone else on this board, like you do so well. I think you know where this is headed, and I just think you're afraid to admit it. You cannot make her engage in the type of marriage you want her to. She's not being a wife to you. Hell, she's not even being a friend to you.

[Bronzepen]

JMargel, I've been following your story and I always feel this way after reading your story.....helpless.

 

You keep trying diffrent ways to reach your wife but nothing seems to work. The frustration you must have, must be overwhelming.

 

You love her, there is no denying that but the question is, Are you happy?

 

When you think about your wife, what's the first thing that comes to your mind?

 

Ask yourself this, Have you tried everything to make things work?

 

Yes, you have explained WHY she is the way she is (her troubled past) but you are still looking for a solution. There should be a statue of you erected with the title perseverance written on the pedestal.

 

The thing is, only she can help herself. You can talk to her, guide her, comfort her and understand her but in the end it's up to her if she wants to get help or not.

 

Yes, your her husband and you have proven that you are there for her and will support her but from what you have said, it looks like she doesn't feel the same way towards you.

 

Do take some time to yourself. Don't make any hasty decisions.

 

Ask yourself "Can this marriage work?" What can I do or what haven't I done to make it work? Have I taken all the avenues?

 

Is my wife helpless and/or is the situation hopeless?

 

Jmargel are you happy, is your wife happy?

 

Is the marriage salvageable?

 

 

Jmargel, I am very sorry for what's happening to your marriage. From what I can tell you seem to be doing all the right things but sometimes that isn't good enough.

 

Take a break, leave for a couple of days and contemplate your situation.

[billybadass36]

Originally posted by Bronzepen

Jmargel, I am very sorry for what's happening to your marriage. From what I can tell you seem to be doing all the right things but sometimes that isn't good enough.

 

Take a break, leave for a couple of days and contemplate your situation.

 

What he said. I took the time to go back and re-read your posts from last summer leading up to your marriage. Adds some backdrop to this whole situation, and you need to ask yourself if this woman was EVER a part of this marriage or if she just "went along with it". Don't know, man.

[Sal Paradise]

You don't need counseling, you need a better wife. I don't see how you can allow her to continue to disrespect you like that. You need to start seeking a divorce. What more evidence of cheating do you need?

[Bubbles]

jmargel,

 

You need to pack her things. Call her Mother on the telephone and tell her to get the room ready for Brandy because you have changed the locks on the door and she is NOT welcome any-more.

 

Seriously friend! I wish, I wish, I wish bubbles, blind_otter, kooky, curlyIam and the rest of us could have an intervention with her just to let her know exactly how much you love her and how you are willing to lay your life down for her.........and if she does'nt respect you for that? Then we can take Jeff home with us tonight!

 

I HATE the things she is doing to you. She is screwing around on you and if she is'nt? Then she sure as hell is making it look like she is. Don't be fooled any longer my friend. No MORE! Enough Already dammitt!

 

Why does she feel the need to dis-respect you? Because she can! That's why! You are waaaaaay too soft hearted for this womans pain. Personally? I sincerely think you should pack her bags and put her out. Let her do her own thing. That obviously what she wants to do any-ways so......why should you be there for her to wipe her feet on?

 

bubbles

[jmargel]

Went to the counselor, she basically said even though she hasn't physically cheated, when she deceives you and lies to you to spend time with another man, that is cheating. She then said I have two options. To tell her to leave or come to an agreement on what each of us needs.

 

She told me not to tell her 'You can't lie to me', but instead say 'I need you to be honest with me'. To change my way of saying things.

 

We went out last night and she brought it all up. Needless to say she tried turning it around all on me. How we are not compatible, i'm not strong, she doesn't respect me saying I'm not an authority figure to her (I have no clue wtf that means), etc.. She then said would you give me a divorce if I wanted one? I'm like yep. I then told her that you have never taken responsibility for what you've had done. That it's your actions that have made me this way. I said your anger outburst for no reason is not normal. She's like just because you don't do it doesn't mean it's not normal. You are trying to fix me. Then in the same conversation she says that she is trying to make 'me' a better person. I'm like we can both improve.

 

She's like I just want to enjoy marriage and have fun. I'm like so do I. She keeps saying that I focus too much on the marriage that it revolves around my whole life. That I need other things to do. I told her that the only reason why I focus on it alot now is because you have me on edge by doing this ****. She's like alot of the times I don't want to come home, i'm like why? I let you do your own thing, I don't know what else you want from me? She's like it's your core personality. I'm like well that's a blanket statement so give me examples. She really didn't.

 

Got home, I went to bed. She actually wanted sex. I gave it to her. Sex to her is a big thing. Anyway afterwards she told me that she hasn't had her anti-depressants in over two days. Well, that explains alot of her attitude. Whenever she goes more than a day without them she's like the devil. This morning, I woke up got dressed, asked her if she wanted me to get it refilled, she said she would. I just let out a sigh and she's like 'what?'. I'm like you really hurt me last night, she's like just act normal that's all I want. I'm like normal? You put me in this spot. Show me some security and start giving what I need and I'll focus less on the marriage. Then I said how about we both do these things together. When I left I told her I love you and she's said 'You know I love you right?'.

 

Her way of trying to take responsibilty for something or to avoid the situation is to try to lash back. I can just tell nothing is going to change unless she does her share. That is upto her though.

[CurlyIam]

Her idea of arriage isn't compatibale to yours. You're both expecting different things.

 

I'll just put one of Pocky's posts here, I hope it helps.

 

It's perfectly acceptable - people want different things out of life. However, you have to determine if you both want the same thing because if you don't the relationship isn't going to succeed. You both may care for each other and love each other, but if you have two sets of expectations and two sets of needs that can't coexist then one person will eventually look elsewhere.

 

You should make a list of things you're missing in the relationship and share this with him. Give him examples of what you expect and what you need so that she can understand your perspective. Try not to say, "you don't do this and you don't do that," but say, "I need this form a relationship." Hopefully, that will thwart any blame and finger pointing that she may perceive and not cause her to be defensive.

 

 

However, I can put all my money in the fact that she won't make the list, she won't talk to you about your marriage, because she understood that she can be married and act like a single woman too. She's calling all the shots, she comes and leaves as she pleases and she's NOT putting any type of effort in meeting your needs. In her mind, it's you the one who's wrong. You're just being a cry baby. I also think she had sex with you in order to manipulate you. Make you cave in to her will once more.

 

Do you think the therapist would have agreed to having sex while other much more important issues haven't been solved? You can't sweep everything under the rug, have sex and then forget about it. It will come back. In fact, it never goes away.

[jmargel]

Actually I didn't initate the sex, she did. The counselor said what is important right now among everything else is that she's coming home to you, making love to you and that is important. I asked her about her family trying to interfere. She said that Brandy can make her own choices and just like she's not listening to you right now she won't listen to them as well. Brandy mentioned last night that she was over there for a little bit and they didn't want her to come home to me. That pisses me off. Brandy I think goes over there because whatever she says about me, they agree with. That's another thing that has to stop. To give us a chance if she goes over there, I hope she would stop telling them things about our marriage. Brandy is like 'Even though they didn't want me to come home to you, I did'.

 

They are trying their hardest to make me seem like a total jerk and I see how it's affecting her. As far as the list goes, I don't know if she would. It would depend on the moment I guess. It just seems like she's hell-bent on ending it but yet she won't leave. I know her dad has her messed up. Like I said before she has no one else to talk to. Yet she doesn't try either. She's not the same woman that I've known. I told her that last night that she has changed alot since this whole thing happened with her family & me.

[CurlyIam]

I know she's the one who initiaited sex. The question is why?

 

Anyway, what's your next move? You've figured out what's wrong and what's at the bottom of it, what are you going to do next?

[jmargel]

Well I would hope because it was her showing me she loves me even though she has not been showing it in other ways.

 

My next move? Well, just try to continue what I'm doing, let her play those pool matches, not hound her with questions but be clear on what I need from her. Even though this is very hard right now I also must force myself to trust her. To not hound her with questions and to let her come to me. It just pisses me off that last night she said that she went with him for a pool stick because he was a friend of the family. WTF! That didn't set well with me even though she said she didn't want to be with him. That is something I am going to make very clear to her this weekend as I told her last night. That just pushes my buttons.

 

I feel like I'm going in a circle, unless she starts talking to someone else about what is bothering her, that will give her sound advice then I don't see much changing. She likes to talk to people who agree with her and her dad wants us to divorce, he said it himself. So as long as they keep putting pressure on her its' like a tug-o-war.

 

I told her last night that if you divorce me you're going to be losing out on someone extremely special. I truly hope we can work this out and that at the end of this, we can give each other what we need.