I need some help here

[Mz. Pixie]

Ewww, that stuff in the eyes is the worst!! You need a shot!

 

I'm sorry about your grandma! That's awful! My grandmother was the most precious person in the world to me and I miss her everyday.

 

J- I'm not saying she's cheating but her behavior sure points to it sometimes. If it would give you peace of mind I say hire the PI. If she is cheating she will never admit it until she's forced to.

[whichwayisup]

Sorry about your grandmother, I do hope she will be OK. Scary for her I bet.

 

And yuk! for the poison Ivy thing. I know two friends who are highly allergic to the stuff and always have to go on steroids atleast twice a year because of reaction from it. Don't know how the heck they stumble into it, but somehow it always finds 'em!

 

Well Jeff, you seem to be at a point where the mind and heart has come together, some sort of acceptance. The s*** or get off the pot time. You're doing well, seem less devistated than you were afew days ago. Can only take so much before ya shut down completely.

 

Right now the ball is in her court as for if she lives up to what she said she'd do. I certainly hope she isn't cheating on you and has been lying all along. I don't think she is, but one can never tell. Probably more emotional than anything - God only knows why. He (ex) isn't worth it as from you said he's still single! Guy sounds like a complete loser, why would any woman find him approachable let alone wanting to have a relationship with him.

[jmargel]

My grandmother seems to be doing better, her eyes got more swollen but now they are healing. My grandfather (who passed away in '96) was watching over her that day. After I visited her, I went to his gravesite to thank him. Him and I were really close.

 

As for Brandy, she was distant last night. Asked her what was wrong and she just wanted to be left alone. She then snapped back saying 'Is being distant against one of your rules?'. I just had to chuckle to myself. That's her teenager immaturity speaking out. I got the book 'Love must be tough' today and read about 100 pages of it. Alot makes sense, that it's not just necessarily communication in a relationship that makes or breaks it, it's the perception that your partner has of you which does change over time. Respect is the main ingredient here, where if one partner loses respect then really no amount of communication is going to work. Ie, by just 'telling' them how you feel. I didn't get Brandy to love me by latching onto her and holding onto her tight. I let her make that decision on her own. So it would be stupid of me to latch onto her or allow her to continue to disrespect me to just try to save the marriage. I'm not here to make her feel trapped, if she wants to go she can, but I can't take her back. I won't be someone's 'second choice' especially since she already said her vows to me. I'll still be loving to her, I won't douse her in it, but it's either she has to do what I need from her or she can find someone else.

 

One of the things mentioned in the book about this is whether or not this will push your spouse totally away. They used the scenerio of heart surgery, where the surgery itself has a 3% risk of killing you, however if you don't get it done you will eventually die a slow and painful death. This goes for marriages as well. Unless you deal the with issues now, it will eventually cause the marriage to end. If she were to end it now because of my needs, then it would end a year later anyways if I tolerated all of this. If I do something about this now then there is a chance that she might 'wake' up and realize what she is doing is harming the marriage and doing a foolish thing. That me doing this isn't a conditional love, but it's an act of love to try to save us from future problems.

 

I really hope she realizes this. However this is something I can't tell her, it won't make her understand. She needs to figure that out on her own. I just hope she does before it's too late.

[Mz. Pixie]

Glad you got the book J. Makes ALOT of sense!

 

Glad grandma is better too!

[moimeme]

Alot makes sense, that it's not just necessarily communication in a relationship that makes or breaks it, it's the perception that your partner has of you which does change over time. Respect is the main ingredient here, where if one partner loses respect then really no amount of communication is going to work

 

This is gold.

[whichwayisup]

My grandmother seems to be doing better, her eyes got more swollen but now they are healing. My grandfather (who passed away in '96) was watching over her that day. After I visited her, I went to his gravesite to thank him. Him and I were really close.

 

Glad she's doing better. I do believe he was keeping an eye on her! Definately!

 

As for Brandy, she was distant last night. Asked her what was wrong and she just wanted to be left alone. She then snapped back saying 'Is being distant against one of your rules?'. I just had to chuckle to myself. That's her teenager immaturity speaking out. I got the book 'Love must be tough' today and read about 100 pages of it. Alot makes sense, that it's not just necessarily communication in a relationship that makes or breaks it, it's the perception that your partner has of you which does change over time. Respect is the main ingredient here, where if one partner loses respect then really no amount of communication is going to work. Ie, by just 'telling' them how you feel. I didn't get Brandy to love me by latching onto her and holding onto her tight. I let her make that decision on her own. So it would be stupid of me to latch onto her or allow her to continue to disrespect me to just try to save the marriage. I'm not here to make her feel trapped, if she wants to go she can, but I can't take her back. I won't be someone's 'second choice' especially since she already said her vows to me. I'll still be loving to her, I won't douse her in it, but it's either she has to do what I need from her or she can find someone else.

 

Next time don't ask her what is wrong. She is just going to react badly towards you, like she did lastnight. She's being smartassy and rude to you. You're right, teenaged behaviour, immature, childish, all of it. That just shows the resentment that is inside of her Jeff. Not good.

 

If she at some point is willing to go to MC or therapy to better herself and the marriage, even if that means you've left or she has moved out and then she starts to realize wtf she's doing and how much she is about to lose, then take her back, give her a chance. I do believe she has NO CLUE what life will actually be like, how unhappy she will feel if you're not in her life. She may need to be alone, experience living on her own and being responsible ALONE before the lights go on inside her head. If that doesn't happen and her behaviour doesn't change - She loses out.

 

One of the things mentioned in the book about this is whether or not this will push your spouse totally away. They used the scenerio of heart surgery, where the surgery itself has a 3% risk of killing you, however if you don't get it done you will eventually die a slow and painful death. This goes for marriages as well. Unless you deal the with issues now, it will eventually cause the marriage to end. If she were to end it now because of my needs, then it would end a year later anyways if I tolerated all of this. If I do something about this now then there is a chance that she might 'wake' up and realize what she is doing is harming the marriage and doing a foolish thing. That me doing this isn't a conditional love, but it's an act of love to try to save us from future problems.

 

It's a chance you have to take though because how things are now is bordering mental breakdowns, not only for you but for her. She's already displaying odd reactions and pissy moments that will only get worse. I just don't to see it boil down to a big blurt session where both of you say things you can't take back...

 

I'm glad you're reading that book, it sounds very helpful. Do whatever you can so you can feel more at peace, or atleast more detached to what is going on around you.

 

I really hope she realizes this. However this is something I can't tell her, it won't make her understand. She needs to figure that out on her own. I just hope she does before it's too late.

 

Yup she does, and hopefully she will. If it too late, it's her own fault sadly enough.

[jmargel]

She wanted to go to her dad's last night. I went to my folks. My folks are not far away from her's, and coming home I can actually see her dad's driveway. Coming home I noticed yet again her ex's truck in the driveway while she was there.

 

I went to her brother's place then to talk to him. To basically tell them I have to tell her it's over. I can't live like this anymore. Talked for about an hour and he mentioned that she is not going to change that she is wired differently then most people.

 

Got home and she was home. It was around 9:30 and she was already trying to sleep. I asked her how it went & she said fine. I then asked her if her ex was there & she said he came later. Saying that he called her dad's house. I find that hard to believe, especially on a Thursday night. Her saying that she was just playing pool and he was talking to them. I then told her I can't deal with this anymore and that I want her out by this weekend. She didn't want to talk much except saying she isn't doing anything wrong.

 

This morning we had a blow out. Her basically cursing at me. I then told her that in this past month you haven't seen your dad by yourself at all without him being there. That this was for you & your dad, not your ex. She has that bitchy attitude so I told her again that she can leave this weekend. She then said 'Well I'll just live with my ex then, just to piss you off'. All I told her was that it wouldn't, it would just tell me that you don't love me. She then mentioned that she's tired of me telling her to leave.

 

She was honest with me when I asked her if he was there, but on the other hand she still stayed there while he was hanging around. I knew her step-mom invited him. I'm truly tired of the lack of respect and I'm at the point that I don't care if she goes. At least it would be a weight lifted off my shoulders. God only knows what this weekend is going to bring. You think me saying this was out of line?

[blind_otter]

Finally!

 

This is a slow motion train wreck. I think you did what you had to do. Stick to your guns. You need a vacation.

[tiki]

If she flees to him, she deserves him.

 

I wouldn't be surprised if she was dabbling in something she shouldn't have. As a matter of fact, I'll bet my Saturday mornin' Eggo waffle on it. Syrup and all.

 

She's not being a wife. She's being a player.

[jmargel]

She isn't being a loving wife to me right now, but I don't believe she is being a player. She is panicing right now and that's the reason why she said those things to me this morning. I'll continue to show her I love her but I won't let up until this issue is resolved. I don't know what it's going to take for her to realize what she is doing is foolish and harming us. I can't physically remove her from the house and I won't throw her out if she has no place to go.

[Bubbles]

jmargel,

 

You're doing it again..........you are being leanient with her and she's going to abuse it!

 

If she is not packed and out of the house by sunday afternoon - do it for her. Put her out.........She does'nt think that you are serious and she's probably laughing at you behind your back because she knows damn well that you don't have the jam to do what you say.

 

Look at what you have already put up with so far? She's laughing and so is her family - I'm telling you.

 

 

bubbles

[jmargel]

How am I suppose to physically remove her from the house if she doesn't want to go? Even if I packed her bags she could easily just say she's not leaving. I'm not making excuses or being leninent.

[guestww]

"She isn't being a loving wife to me right now, but I don't believe she is being a player. She is panicing right now and that's the reason why she said those things to me this morning. I'll continue to show her I love her but I won't let up until this issue is resolved. I don't know what it's going to take for her to realize what she is doing is foolish and harming us. I can't physically remove her from the house and I won't throw her out if she has no place to go."

 

 

She isn't being a loving wife to you and honestly it's time for her to realize she's going to lose you. Stick to your guns on this. Follow through and get her out of the house. She figures you don't have the nerve to do this, so she'll be nice to you and then you'll back off, then things will go back to where they have been.

 

She does have a place to go. Many places. Her brother, her father, her Ex even. Actually she can stay with a girlfriend too, but trust me, she won't starve or be on the streets.

[tiki]

You've either got warped views of marriage, or someone stole your brain and replaced it with a couple of scrambled eggs, cuz wake up dude, you're being played.

 

You're in denial, man.

 

SHE IS NOT BEING A WIFE.

[Bubbles]

Does she not go to "visit" her family on sunday afternoons? Jeff you've gotta do something. It's not like she doesn't have a place to go.......the problem here is that YOU don't want to let go and I can't blame you for that but the sooner you realize that tough love is the ONLY thing that is going to make her start actually using her brain rather than sitting on it will be when YOU take drastic measures.

 

Who gives a crap what her family says about you? As a matter of fact I hope her family tongue you down to the lowest so that she will start realizing that you are NOT all of what they are saying......trust me.......this will happen.

 

You need to make a move and it's not by saying one thing and then turning around and doing another. You know I am right......you know it.

 

bubbles

[tiki]

Originally posted by jmargel

How am I suppose to physically remove her from the house if she doesn't want to go? Even if I packed her bags she could easily just say she's not leaving. I'm not making excuses or being leninent.

 

Be a man.

 

She's already said she'd move in with the ex. What other proof do you need?

 

What part of 'forsaking all others' did she not understand?

[blind_otter]

My exhusband had nowhere to go, so I got the "for rent" advertisements and asked him how much he could spend and gave him a list of apartments to look at. He was out of my house in a month. We slept in separate bedrooms until then.

 

She can stay with her parents. She has friends. She has to have places to go. Stop renigging. Do it. Empty threats make you look weak.

[Bubbles]

And if you pack her bags and put them outside the door - even if she says that she is not leaving? I would (with fire in my eyes) turn around and ask her this "AND WHY THE HELL WOULD YOU WANT TO STAY HERE???? WHAT FOR BRANDY? SO YOU HAVE A NICE SAFE BED TO SLEEP IN? SO YOU ONLY HAVE TO COPE WITH YOUR EX AND YOUR FATHER WHEN YOU CHOOSE TO DO IT? OTHERWISE YOU HAVE A NICE SAFE PLACE TO RUN TO DON'T YOU! WELL, YOUR FATHER AND YOUR EX CAN HAVE YOU NOW BECAUSE I DON'T WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH YOU ANY-LONGER"

 

Notice that I wrote in all caps? Yes, I am telling you to yell at her and then insist that she leaves. She'll beg you to stay........and THAT is when you two will start making progress.......only when you stand up to her and put her out.

 

She is getting her step-mom to call her ex for her and she is also using her father as good cover. She knows that her parents approve of him and not you and she also knows that in order to stay in good graces with her father (if there is any money due to her at the end of his life) then she has to do what HE wants her to do - he knows it. All three of them know what they are doing. Just lucky for them Jeff came along and took the financial burden of Brandy off their hands.

[tiki]

JMargel, reference http://www.loveshack.org/forums/t52337/.

[Bubbles]

Excellent tiki! Very good read!

 

bubbles

[jmargel]

Bubbles, I know I need to do the tough love. That's why I told her the things I did last night and this morning. You think that was easy?

 

She believes that since nothing physical is going on and she's not telling him she wants to be with him, etc.. that it is not cheating. I disagree. What she is doing is foolish and hurting me. If I was doing this to her, just her reactions to this would be making me think about what I am doing.

 

She is like under her dad's spell at this point. Personally I don't think she would ever move in with her ex, she has told me many times, even last night that she doesn't have feelings for him. She told me because she said it would piss me off. Nah, she said it because she was trying to piss me off. It didn't. She is throwing a tantrum because I refuse to put up with this and that she knows she's wrong.

 

I think she is also coming to the conclusion that her step-mom and dad are activily pursuing her ex to come when she is there. She doesn't want to admit that they have no other motives but to see her. Otherwise she is facing possible rejection from them if she talks to them. That and the fact that I believe she has put me down so hard when she's over there, any attempt of making things right would make her look like she has not been truthful about me to them.

 

I just can't understand how it could be so hard for her to finally put things in their place. I really don't care about what her dad or step-mom think of me and I have told her that. The only reason I would reconile is because of Brandy. Sooner or later her dad & step-mom will say something about me that she will react to in terms of defending me. At least I would hope so. I'm not a bad person and I will not let her perceive me as one.

 

She really, truly has to come to the realization on what she wants in life. That in 50 years from now when she looks back, that this is one of those crucial moments that will affect her for the rest of her life.

[blind_otter]

You can't control her actions, only yours. You can wish and hope all you want that she will come to a better understanding....but as my Dad says, "Wish in one hand, sh*t in the other, and see which one gets full first"

 

Empty threats make you look weak, and if she hasn't already lost respect for you, she will, and physical infidelity will quickly follow. Follow through. Read Tiki's thread.

[guestww]

J, she only told you she'd move in with her ex to peeve you off - You know she isn't going to do that.

 

I think that you should still go away one weekend, I know I suggested this for you to do afew weeks ago. Be away from her for afew days. Come back refreshed and maybe feel stronger to what you may have to do sometime soon.

 

I wish she WOULD realize she IS doing so much wrong, but once again, as you posted her brother said she's wired differently and sadly, she probably isn't going to change her ways, for you or anybody else in her life. She is who she is, if you like it, great, if not, Oh well...

 

Hang in there Jeff.

[jmargel]

My threat is not empty. I don't want to be in a marriage that is going on like this. What TMW said in tiki's thread had importance in it as well.

 

How can you say physical infidelity will quicky follow? Don't try to use scare tactics to get me to do certain things. It's like selling home security systems, saying if you don't buy this you WILL get robbed!

 

I truly believe she is not having physical contact with him. When her & I were just friends for that year, we were not physical at all, she kept her promise to stay faithful to him. It was not until after we became a couple and she broke it off with him that we had sex. We had plenty of opportunities to have sex way before and even the times that I tested to see how far she would go she stood firm.

 

As you can tell things are coming down to a wire, things are going to change.

[NiCoLe20]

even though i havent read thru every page in this thread, i get the main idea.

 

YOU deserve to be treated with respect. you deserve to have someone who says they love you, they miss you, they cant wait to see you, they love everything about you, etc....

 

does ur wife ever do this anymore? listen man, people change, some for the worse, and some for the better. you gotta accept this and accept that life does go on. you shouldnt be sitting around worrying about whats happening in your marriage, because you shoudnt have to worry period. shes just not the one. i mean, she cant see how much she's hurting you? not only is that extrememly selfish, but what is that saying to you?!!

 

this woman needs to recognize that you wont settle for less, and you wont settle for these little games with her x. i agree with bubbles that you gotta pack up her bags, leave em on the porch! if that doesnt work, get divorce papers and leave them hanging around where she will find them, and she will know you mean business... if she loved you in the first place, she wouldnt be doing this to you... you HAVE to realize and accept that.... the one you want and deserve to have is out there, get rid of this woman b/c she is stalling it from happening. you deserve better.