I need some help here

[tiki]

That's fine to see how far you can push her to get the end result, but you're not exactly 'pushing' by letting her stay. Test your boundaries by putting her stuff in a Heft bag out on the front porch. If she wants to stay, she'll make it clear. If she wants to leave, please, God, let her.

 

Something's gotta give, no?

[binturong]

I see a simple solution to her not wanting to leave. Next time she goes to work, to her dad's, to play pool, pack up her bags and throw them on the front porch. Then call a locksmith and have all the locks changed. Voila! She can't get into the house, therefore she can either sleep on the front porch or leave. She's being a bitch, Jmargel. Don't coddle her and try to make things easy for her. She's not doing that for you.

[jmargel]

Tiki,

 

I have told her to go, when she told me last week she wanted to leave I told her to leave quickly. I have mentioned to her leaving a few times during this past week and a half. That in itself does not do our marriage any good. Some people get remorseful and some get defensive. She is the latter. All it turns into is things being turned around on each other. Yes something has to give and the only thing she will admit to is that this situation is weird and the fact that she has not put herself into this marriage 100% these past few months.

 

If she doesn't want to leave when I told her, me putting her stuff in a garbage bag is not going to make her want to leave either. What I really want her to do is MAKE the decision for herself and for HER to want to make this marriage work. Me throwing her out like that is MY way of making her do something about this marriage. In the long run that isn't going to work. I'm trying to look at the present and the future here.

 

What's strange is that beyond this, we get along good. We don't agrue and we actually have good times together. That is what makes this so damn frustrating!

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by jmargel

My threat is not empty. I don't want to be in a marriage that is going on like this. What TMW said in tiki's thread had importance in it as well.

 

How can you say physical infidelity will quicky follow? Don't try to use scare tactics to get me to do certain things. It's like selling home security systems, saying if you don't buy this you WILL get robbed!

 

I'm not trying to scare you. But if she loses respect for you then you have no clout. No pull. You get to be pitited rather than loved. You don't understand what I'm saying, perhaps because you don't want to.

 

If you don't want her to move out, stop saying it. If you do, then do it. Don't dither about saying one thing and doing another. You are enabling her and preventing her from hitting rock bottom. She has no consequences for her unacceptable behavior. She is a kid in a candy store. You have no boundaries with her.

[jmargel]

Brandy,

 

This won't be long since I know you are busy. I knew somehow this morning

was going to turn out the way it did. You get upset because you believe

nothing bad is going on (in which I believe you) and I get upset because I

feel like he's always going to be in our life. What you said today hurt me,

and I'm not telling you to move out because I don't want you. I'm trying to

tell you that I can't have another guy, ex or not involved in our life.

 

We love each other and I feel this has consumed us with our arguing. I

know you can't stop Rhoda from inviting him but please do what you feel is

best for us regarding this. I am going to let you handle it the way you see

fit. I trust you with that. I don't even want to talk about 'him' anymore,

all I want is for you to enjoy time with your dad by yourself.

 

I really want to have a nice weekend with you, I have been looking forward

to it since you aren't working nights anymore.

 

Love,

 

Jeff

 

----

 

Bash me on this if you want, but I sent her this today. Although it just may seem like another chance, if you read it carefully I have told her I don't want to be in a marriage with him being involved and then giving her the chance to handle it her way. Now it's on her. If she fails to handle it at all like she has been then I can walk away with a clear conscious. This also gives her the 'power' to make her own decisions about this and if she really wants us to work out she will do it. I won't tell her how to do it, that's for her to decide. I need to be sure I have done 110% possible before divorcing. Like I said before throwing her out is not going to be used as a tactic by me to get her to do what I want, it's because I don't want to be with her anymore. That's not how you go about with effective communciation and respect will not come from that.

 

Personally I doubt this will make a difference but this is my LAST try. Since this has started I have been down her throat on what 'she' should do. I'm allowing her to make her own decision and I only want her if she wants me anyways.

 

Call me weak or whatever you wish. It's something I feel like I had to do.

[Moose]

I'm trying to look at the present and the future here.

Then stand your ground man. I CANNOT believe you let her go over there again without you..... You just keep shootin' yourself in the foot......there's no hope for this situation unless you insist on NC with the EX UNLESS you're present.......AND you have to make that effort yourself.......this is sooooo friggin' simple, yet you're making so friggin' complicated.......damn I'm pissed!

[Moose]

I need to be sure I have done 110% possible before divorcing.

I told you what YOU need to do to ensure this......you just won't do it......so no, you'll never accomplish this 110% if you continue this route.....that letter you sent is another waste of your time and effort.........

[jmargel]

Moose it might be simple here on paper (or on screen) but when it's involved into real life it's not as simple as it seems.

 

I would admit that if Brandy were to say I can't see my parents I would be pissed, for whatever reason. They are my parents. I love them and no one is going to tell me I can't see them. That's how she would react and most of you on here if that was done to you.

 

If she wanted to she could go off and see him anytime she wants. She could just tell me she's going to the store and instead hook up with him, but she's not. YES it's wrong with what her family is doing and yes it's wrong that she's put us into this situation but she is also in a tough spot herself. I'm not condoning what she has done or whimping back. I'm trying to be fair and look at both sides of this even though she is not.

 

If you think you are pissed how do you think I feel? My options are limited and none are pointing to anything good. My main goal is to save this marriage, remember above all I love her. When my ex left I had guilt because I didn't try everything I could, I vowed my next relationship I would put everything I have into it. That is what I am doing right now.

[guestww]

But you have to know when to stop. When banging your head against a brick wall actually starts to hurt too much.

 

You have tried everything and given SO much, been patient and understanding more than many.

 

Hope she does come around and wakes up before it's too late.

[Moose]

I would admit that if Brandy were to say I can't see my parents I would be pissed, for whatever reason.

You're not telling her she CAN"T see her parents.....she just can't be there in his,(ex), presence WITHOUT YOU!

My options are limited and none are pointing to anything good.

NO they are not.....you have the right and ABILITY to be there with her when the ex is present.....but, you don't, or won't for what ever reason.....and whatever excuse you come up with, it's lame! You need to get off your duff and make that effort, and if you're not willing to do that little extra work, you're not doing EVERYTHING you can to salvage this marriage.

[Mz. Pixie]

J-

 

By telling her to handle it whatever way she sees fit, you're telling her to continue as she has. She's BEEN doing as she has seen fit.

 

Also- the issue here is not her seeing her parents- it's the ex's involvement. SHE should ask them not to invite him over when she's going to be over. That's a simple solution. Or you should go with her.

 

IMO she spends too much time over there that she should be spending with you. QUestion is why??

[jmargel]

Pixie,

 

She is very competitive and she keeps practicing pool. Not just there but even during her lunch breaks at work. She went to a retirement party at this one place with co-workers and she spent most of the time shooting pool. She's going to burn herself out over it. I even found a pool table in the paper for $250 that I was going to tell her about, just to put it in our basement so she can play until her heart's content at home.

[Mz. Pixie]

I can see that, but why would you be so competitive that you would risk your marriage over anything like that??

 

This whole thing is just starting to smell fishy.

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by Mz. Pixie

I can see that, but why would you be so competitive that you would risk your marriage over anything like that??

 

This whole thing is just starting to smell fishy.

 

True.

[tiki]

My personal opinion, she's already in too deep. From an outsider looking it, it seems really obvious that she has feelings for the dude.

[Mz. Pixie]

J-

 

I think you think something is going on here too, but you just don't want to face it. If this was anyone else posting this problem, what would you say??

[lilmoma1973]

hey jmargel

i am really sorry to hear about what's going on.. she needs to wake up and smell the coffee and see what she has ... it will be her loss and someone elses gain .. good luck hope it all works out...

[MWC_LifeBeginsAt40]

I think this is a great idea. So far you have been back and forth with the same issues and the same results. I wouldn't even ask her input, just go out and buy it and see if she's home practising more often.

 

Why did you freak when you saw her ex's car at her dad's place? Then you went to her brother's? Why didn't you go knock on her dad's door? Oh yes, you're afraid of getting your azz kicked by him.

 

Here - I'm Brandy after getting your email:

 

Dear Jeff

 

I've told you a hundred times that I love you and that I don't have any feelings for my ex. I can't do anything about it when I go see my dad, and he just shows up. I'm not going to just leave because nothing is going on. I'm just practising pool and visiting my dad. If my step mom called him to come over, I have no control over that. I can't tell him to leave because it's not my house. My dad wants him there and he wants me there too. I came home as soon as I was finished and it was only 9:30.

 

Brandy

 

Okay Jeff this is the same kind of answers you've been getting from her all along. Nothing will change. IMO you are overreacting but in any case you need to take a new course of action.

 

You have two choices. (1) END IT or (2) Stand up for yourself. Start going with her to her dad's. If she won't stand up to her father, then you will have to do it for her. I believe that as soon as you start taking a more aggressive stance towards the situation and make yourself come between her and her father/ex/stepmom, Brandy might even be thankful. If you show that you can stand up for yourself in all this IMO Brandy will come to respect you more. She is too weak to stand up to her father. She needs you to do this.

 

No more forbidding her to be in the presence of her ex. Just make sure that you are there and that you can handle what comes of it. Are you too weak also? Or are you up to the challenge?

 

Say to her "If you won't stand up to him I WILL". I think that deep down she wants you to stand up to her father.

 

If it all blows up in your face, well, you're the one who said you wanted to put everything into this relationship, and would do whatever it takes, so do it Jeff.

[hotgurl]

J, this reminds me of a situation with my friend. She is his live in gf does all the cleaning cooking etc. Takes care of the pets, they have sex several times a week. She wants to get married. They've been dating six years. He pays for most of the bills as she has a low paying job. She gave him an ultimatum last month, you need to decide whether or not you want to marry me. I need an answer by this weekend I'll take no answer as a no and leave. He never gave he a clear answer she didn't leave.

 

He won't marry her. He won't pitch in around the house and he won't change. He is a selfish guy. He has her and he knows it. He knows she can't afford to leave and is too scared to. Especially since she didn't follow though on her ultimatum. He has her by the balls so to speak and knows it. So she will never get what she wants, and deserves until she leave.

 

Brandy has you by the balls and knows it. She won't change because she know she doesn't have to. Even though you complain she knows you will never do anything to follow through on those complaints because you have shown her that you are unwilling to. Jeff sometimes words, even though they are truthful are empty. Right now you words are empty to her. For her to change would be inconvenient for her; and right now there is nothing to motivate the change.

[jmargel]

Your right MWC. If she is not going to stand upto him, I will. However I know this will result in a physical altercation. She was telling me Sat. that this will all eventually pass. I told her it won't, that it's only going to get worse. That this will lead into holidays and all family events. Sunday was the first day she spent with her dad without her ex being around. However she was still her cold self to me. Her mom harped on her some Sat. night when Brandy called her. Her telling Brandy she is not being a wife and what she is doing is wrong. Brandy has a tendency of leaving out alot of information to her mom about things. Her mom is aware of this.

 

Anyway, I told her Sat. I am unhappy in this marriage that I cannot do this anymore with the way things are going. Her match is tonight and I won't see her until it's over. Let's see what time she comes home tonight and if there's alcohol on her breath. I told her Sat. that I've talked to my parents about ending the marriage in which I have. There's hardly any initmacy between us during these past two weeks. I asked her last night if she was still in love with me, she said Yes, but if this continues I don't know how much longer I will be with her. Some people think I am overracting to this situation, some don't. All I know is if I just 'let things go' it will esculate to even worse than what it already is.

 

I just wish she would goto therapy or a counselor. Right now I don't trust her and I definetly don't trust her dad. I'm still working on getting a friend to stop in during those matches to see if anything is going on. I would rather find out that way, me being there won't tell me the truth if something is going on.

[tiki]

Originally posted by jmargel

I just wish she would goto therapy or a counselor.

 

If I were you, I'd just wish she'd chose me over the ex.

[whichwayisup]

AHHH, I just did a whole long PM to ya, and your mailbox is full, did a back-a-page and lost it all! lol Oh well...Try again later..

 

If you do go and stand up to him, (I think somebody suggested this before???) call your local police station, let them know the situation - That you're going to talk - But this guy is a real hot head and ready to take you out - Just give them some warning so that when it happens, atleast your a$$ is covered...

 

Ofcourse Brandy is not going to paint herself in any bad light, to her mom or to anybody, which to me, means that she isn't ready to see things as they are, she's not ready to "own" up to her mistakes and admit her faults. Until she see's that 100% clearly, this unfortunate and preventable situation is going to go on...

 

What she isn't (or maybe she is) aware of - EVERY part of what she is doing is slowly ripping down piece by piece parts of the marriage that was built. All your good feelings, respect for her...She's undoing by her actions. Her disrespect, her coldness and her attitude in general. YOU are not overreacting. At all...

 

Until she is ready to admit her mistakes, see wtf she is doing to herself, you and the marriage - Things won't change as in her mind she can justify it so there's no guilt or bad feelings. In her mind, it's you and not her. Duh, most people can only take SO much before they get worn down and fall apart, so she's not willing to see her part in this, there isn't anything more you can really do except close your heart more and more, put your walls up and NOT let her close to you emotionally and intimately UNTIL she shows some follow through on her words.

 

Keep on your friend, if he can't do it, then ask him to get one of his friends to do it for ya. Pay the friend a nice bottle of wine or a case of beer for doing this favour.

[Mr Spock]

I'm pretty sure the police station will tell him not to go over there, so I don't think that will be helpful at all.

[Moose]

Originally posted by Mr Spock

I'm pretty sure the police station will tell him not to go over there, so I don't think that will be helpful at all.

I've covered that Spock. Jeff is technically Brandy's next of Kin now. He has every right to go over there and ask to speak to Brandy......if she chooses to stay there and doesn't wish Jeff to be there with her, she will literally have to tell Jeff in the presence of the police.

[johan]

I don't think anything is going on with the ex.

 

She doesn't want to go, or she would have left.

 

You don't seem concerned that anything is going on between them. I haven't seen any evidence that you think there is. You just don't like him around.

 

Maybe she just wants you to back off and let her make her own decisions. Let her burn out on pool. Be there for her. Be strong and steady and quit threatening her with divorce. You don't have to approve, you just have to stop disapproving so much.

 

That's my take on it, anyway. You seem convinced that all this is disrespectful to you, but I think you're drawing lines all over the place all the time out of insecurity. I just think if this was really a deal-breaker, then the deal was broken and you should be gone. Or else it wasn't and you should pick your battles more wisely.