I need some help here

[tokyo]

Originally posted by jmargel

I told her last night that if you divorce me you're going to be losing out on someone extremely special.

I don't want to give you more hard times, but what you said let's me think that you are trying to sell yourself very hard. I also tend to believe that she knows it, that's what she means when she tells you, you're too weak for her. Stop telling her what she's missing out or that she's doing something wrong. I bet, she's a person who reacts very sensitive to people who invade her space, the more you push, the more she will do things that she likes without taking your feelings into consideration.

[CurlyIam]

So you wanna change nothing, after all. Don't worry, she's not changing anything herself. You have been warned. You're staying with her because she dominates you and because she's making you feel as if you were a bad husband. And this way, you're unconciously paying for the way you've treated your ex.

 

 

Jeff, I'm sure you've alianated yourself from all of your friends and the only people you're talking to are either her family or your family. Talk to your friends about their relationships, meet with your ex, see her and remember, try to remember for at least one second what a normal relationship looks and feels like. You'll see how far you are from it.

 

 

Maybe she's not that far off after all. I do believe you're breathing her air, because it's Brandy Brandy Brandy all the time. Get a life, man. You'll be doing both of you a favour. Stay, if that's what you want, but get off her case!

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by CurlyIam

Maybe she's not that far off after all. I do believe you're breathing her air, because it's Brandy Brandy Brandy all the time. Get a life, man. You'll be doing both of you a favour. Stay, if that's what you want, but get off her case!

 

I think this would be a good idea. My exhusband started becoming obsessed with my life. Everything was about me and fixing me. I was struggling because you really have to fix yourself. I know you acknowledge this, but do you really implement it??

 

You really should be doing some kind of activity on your own, at least to pass the time. How old are you? You say all your friends are married with kids...I know plenty of people in their mid-twienties to mid-thirties who go hang out just like I do, at the bar or (now, for me since I quit drinking for a while) - at the coffee shop. You can take martial arts classes, or go to the gym....do something on your own to distract yourself from the situation.

[jmargel]

What good is seeing my ex going to do?

 

Yes I would get off of her case, but what she is doing is the reason why I am on it. What the hell am I suppose to do when she goes off with her ex, she's lying to me and just sporting an attitude? I need for her to show me that she wants to be with me, that she loves me. I have no problem doing my own "thing". Hell, I do it 3 nights a week while she's working nights. Now I'll be doing it a 4th night since she's playing pool. That's over half the week.

 

I'm not trying to push her away but I can't do this all on my own. This whole thing with her ex has me extremely upset and she doesn't show any regret over it. Instead of showing regret she gets defensive & gives excuses. If she wants to be with him fine, do it. However don't drag me through the mud and make me feel like I'm someone bad in the process. If she truly wants to be with me only then I need her to show that to me.

[blind_otter]

Honestly - I don't think she knows how to do this....

[jmargel]

Funny.. Even though she's always had her anger problems there have been quite a few times she's shown her love for me. I strongly feel that her dad's pressure is making her think so negative about us. I mean I just can't believe she would lie to me and go with her ex to get a pool stick. To me that's just telling me she would rather be with him and that it's the beginning of the end for us.

 

Hell why wouldn't she? Her dad wants us to split up, she's finally getting the attention from him, right now there is alot of stress between us (due to this), she goes to shoot pool & has fun while her ex is just re-enforcing that.

 

How do I not feel like I'm competing against all these people? I'm just very hurt by this and it seems like there is no hope in sight. How can I just act like everything is fine when I get such confusing signals? Her talking about divorce, yet she tells me she loves me the next morning. She keeps saying 'Im married to you, that should be enough'. It's not though. I need for her to be honest, show me the love she has for me, stand up for me when it comes to her dad and to stop trying to sneak around with the ex.

 

I can get my own hobbies, etc.. but that's not going to change much unless she's willing to change. It hurts so much that I believe she doesn't think she has to. You would think she would want to do it for me at least.

[Debster]

Jmargel, you are starting to sound like a poor wounded dog that is getting constantly kicked. If that's how you want to be, and how you want to live your life, then fine. Keep it up and stay on the alert for whatever scraps of attention and affection your wife decides to dole out. And find a way to cope with the way she treats you the remainder of the time.

 

If that's not how you want to be, or how you spend your life, then do something about it. Stand up to her. Take some action. Tell her that this is a sham of a marriage and that this is not what you want your future to be. Take a good hard look at your relationship with her - warts and all. She has always started conflict in your relationship. If it wasn't her fighting over the song to go down the aisle, it was her fighting to go out with her coworkers after work and telling you, you can't go, or lieing about seeing her ex, etc.... The list just keeps going on. Admit it. She is high maintenance. IMO you will never have a calm, peaceful, relaxing, loving relationship with her for more than a couple of months.

 

Stop using her history as an excuse. Yes, it is a horrible past. I agree. HOWEVER, she needs to get over it and move forward. If she refuses to, than she is, IMO damaged beyond repair and would never be able to sustain a happy, healthy relationship - let alone a marriage.

[billybadass36]

IMO you should have started listening to Debsster a little under a year ago.

[jmargel]

We had differences on the wedding song but we found a compromise. That's what a marriage should be about. I don't regret marrying her at all. And I absoletly agree that she needs to take responsibility for what she's done and what will she do in the future. To recognize that she hasn't treated me as good as she should have and to want to fix this.

 

Right now I just have to play it day by day. I really have no choice. The best I can do is to do my own part. My dad mentioned that he thinks she has two personalites. One that shows me love and wants to be with me, and the other which is influenced by her dad alot that she could do better, that I'm the reason why she's unhappy, etc.. On she can figure that out on her own.

[whichwayisup]

You're right...Take it day by day.

 

Sooner or later you will have to decide though to accept her just as she is as from what you've said and what I've read back from other posts she is who she is and isn't going to change her ways for ANYBODY. As long as YOU know that and accept it (means letting go and allowing her do what she wants) then the peace will be kept and she'll be happy. Yet, in saying this, it's NOT fair at all to you but I'm afraid that is the only way she will stay in the marriage. Has nothing to do with how she feels about you Jeff. She LOVES you. Don't doubt that. Just she has to live life freely and not have to be tied down. Her defination of "marriage" isn't the same as yours, doubt it ever will be - That can be turned into a positive - as long as she doesn't cheat on you. The rest (if you can or want to) can be accepted because you've accepted her, quirks and all.

[jmargel]

I don't want her to feel tied down. If she wants to go out with friends, that's fine. I trust her. However not with an ex. As the counselor said, that's cheating. The only other thing I don't want her to do is to live life like she is single, which I don't think she would do but that is what I'm afraid of. Maybe I'm afraid if I let loose of the reigns something will happen that's bad. But I guess I have no choice because me wanting to spend time with her I guess is just backfiring.

 

It's this whole thing with the ex and her dad interfering in our marriage. If those two problems were eliminated alot would be solved. Since this has happened things have quickly gotten worse for us, that was my fear all along.

[whichwayisup]

Maybe I'm afraid if I let loose of the reigns something will happen that's bad. But I guess I have no choice because me wanting to spend time with her I guess is just backfiring.

 

It's this whole thing with the ex and her dad interfering in our marriage. If those two problems were eliminated alot would be solved. Since this has happened things have quickly gotten worse for us, that was my fear all along.

 

Yeah I see what you're saying...I wish there was an easy solution to fix this for you. No matter what you try right now it's going to blow up in your face. So, when in doubt, do nothing - Let it play out bit by bit as you can't try to control this situation.

 

Man, I feel frustrated for you and can only imagine what you're filling inside these days. I hope that you're taking caring of YOU (meaning eating enough, drinking water etc...yeah yeah yeah, sounds like a nagging wifey! LOL! We just care about ya and don't want you falling to pieces healthwise too!)

[jmargel]

I know.. Thank you. I've lost weight which I needed to anyway. Been drinking alot of water. It's frustrating because I love her SO much and want her happy in life. Honestly before all of this crap that started in April, we would have our quabbles but for the most part really enjoyed each other. Now it seems like it's a huge mess. I just want to take her & move away with her somewhere so we are away from those distractions and interference.

 

She said some very hurtful things last night such as if she would've waited on marrying me, she would have not gotten married, etc.. Right now I know she's in PMS mode (her period is due next week) plus the fact that she hasn't taken her anti-depressants the past few days. PMS mode with her is bad enough but w/o the medication she's on it's like she's fighting the world.

 

It's hard to tell her what I need from her without her getting atagonized and becoming more resentful. The only thing I can really do is show her my appreciation, etc.. and let her come to me and do the same.

 

I just hope.. that deep down inside really wants to stay married to me and really work on this problem.

[whichwayisup]

She said some very hurtful things last night such as if she would've waited on marrying me, she would have not gotten married, etc.. Right now I know she's in PMS mode (her period is due next week) plus the fact that she hasn't taken her anti-depressants the past few days. PMS mode with her is bad enough but w/o the medication she's on it's like she's fighting the world.

 

Yeah that's a bad combo. Eeekk. How can you not be hurt by what she said, even due to PMS and not taking Anti-Deps.

 

Here's a suggestion...Surprise her! This weekend, just jump in the car and GO! Even if it is going out for lunch at a nice restaurant, or going to a nearby park to play some frisbee...Pack a wee picnic for the park or something. Maybe having some fun and laughing would perk her up, see that all isn't doom and gloom cuz of her actions. SHOW her a good time and see how that goes.

[jmargel]

I know.. I really want to do that. I told my mom today that I just want some time with her that we are just smiling & happy. To put this all behind us for awhile. She works the whole weekend from 5pm-10pm. Problem is, I know her dad is going to try to take her. It's even hard to plan something with her, they are either always calling her or coming into the restuarant when she's working.

 

Anyway, I plan on doing something fun with her. We need a break from all the crap that's around us.

[Bubbles]

You're kidding me right?

 

 

YOU need the break........she's fine with this crap!

 

Sorry Jeff.........my heart is broken for you and I can't stand it when someone I think highly of is in this kind of crappy situation......it makes me want to lash out at someone!

 

It's the Mama Bear in me........sorry again

 

 

bubbles

[lilmoma1973]

Hey JMargel,

I am so sorry for the way things are going.. I so can relate with the inlaws causing problems.. My h mom likes his ex better than me !! I guess it is because they are so much alike and can relate to one another.. That isn't a compliment either in other words they are rednecks and trashy lol! MIL has always tried to come in between me and my h and it worked once and she pushed h right back to the ex .. They have a child together but h ended up realising that he made a huge mistake and came to me and i wasn't so sure i wanted to but i did and we stay as far from the inlaws as we can it makes things better.. MIL turned FIL against me too so my daughter doesn't see them and i like it that way.. They even resent my daughter because she is mine .. Oh well their loss and my mom and step dads gain .. So hang in there.. I know it is hard but it gets better i promise

[jmargel]

Ty lilmoma. All my wife said is that she knows what he's like, I told her that what is important is what you think about the marriage, not him but that I just hope that he does not try to influence you in anyway. That he needs to work on his own marriage and leave ours alone.

 

The weekend went quite well. Didn't argue at all. We stayed in all day Sat. and Sunday went to her mom's picnic. Monday we spent time with my neice who is only 8 years old. We only talked about the situation last night, it was brought up because I happened to come across that Dr. Phil show and she sat down to watch it. It was about this guy cheating on his wife with her best friend. I asked her what would be a deal breaker with me? Kinda surprised her. I asked her what would it take? Me going out w/ someone, me kissing them, me having sex, etc? She got a look on her face, saying she never thought about it. After awhile she said that it would probably be sex, that would be the deal breaker. She then said 'I hope your not getting any ideas' but then said that she could see me finding comfort in someone else because she's been so difficult. I told her I would never cheat on her, then just asked her how would she feel if one of her friends came upto her and said she saw another woman with me. She couldn't say much. I kinda hit it from a different angle. She apologized for what happened on Wednesday. I told her that I trusted you that you wanted to play pool because you are spending time with your dad and nothing else.

 

We were talking for about 20 mins and I know she doesn't like the 'us' discussions because it's usually me pointing out things that she's done to hurt me. The last question I asked was did she want to be with him? She said no, then I asked does she have feelings for him. She didnt say anything, and I she think was more upset that I would ask that from her more than her having feelings for him. She's just been more affectionate this past weekend then she's really ever had. Especially last night after we talked. She actually wanted to wrap herself around me & kiss me without having sex. Yesterday was the first day that she did not go to her dads in about 3 weeks. Although I'm sure she's going to go there today. They called her Sunday night and she decided to go with me after work instead of there place. I heard her dad on the phone since she was sitting so close. It's like he didn't want to talk to her, he was really short with her and not trying to joke around with her. It's that stuff that makes me upset that he would actually do that to her because she is spending time with me. It's his way of controlling her. All I told her was that she's an adult and can make her own choices.

 

I think I am going to talk to her about the question she didn't answer last night. Last week when I asked her she said she didn't and just thought of him as a friend. I asked her last night to tell me if there was any underlying reason (ie. wanting to spend time with him, check to see if there are still feelings, etc..) on why she went with him for that stupid pool stick. She just looked at me for about 10-15 seconds and said no. All I know is if she decides to be on the same team as him in the fall, then I can't continue this marriage. I have not given her that ultamatium, I just told her that it's taken me alot to tolerate this and I hope you don't continue to play with fire by allowing this to continue in the fall.

 

I still harbor alot of resentment, she thinks I should just 'let it go' and not worry about it. That I'm making more of an issue about it then it already is. I just can't do that.

 

In the mean time I start my Shepherd in training classes. It's the same night as her pool match. It only lasts 1 1/2 hours, but at least it might allow me to focus on something else for a little bit.

 

Last night her, me & my brother went to shoot pool (again) because she wanted to. I knew a woman (Kelly) there from my previous work. Brandy never met her. While Brandy went to get us drinks, Kelly was like 'Hey, you must be Brandy'. Brandy is like 'Yea, how do you know?'. She's like 'I know Jeff'. I didn't see her right away so Brandy told me when she came over. I told her I was going to talk to her some. About 10 mins later I came back, she asked me how I knew her. About an hour later Kelly came and put quarters on the table to play. Brandy wanted to play her. Needless to say Kelly kicked her butt. While she was playing Brandy was like 'I don't like her very much', I'm like why? She's been nice to you. After we left she was asking questions. I'm thinking my god, I can tell she is jealous (over nothing) yet I have to put up with her crap?

 

So, I don't know where this is all going. I don't think I am going to get a long lasting change from her unless she goes to counseling. I just keep praying to God that one day she'll wake up. There's only so much I can do.

[Bubbles]

Baaaaa Haaaaa Haaaaa.........looks good on her! Jeff, you saw the green monster come out in Brandy and you handled it with grace and style my friend! Grace and Style. Gawd, I only wish you could have known what was going on inside her head! She did'nt like her very much huh?

 

Tough!

 

Sounds like Brandy likes to play the game as long as SHE is winning and YOU are loosing. That's just mean Jeff! She sounds an aweful lot like her father.

 

 

bubbles

[Mz. Pixie]

Okay, let me recap what I missed over the holiday-

 

1. She lied to you about where she was going.

 

2. You follow her and she gets out of the car with her ex. They went to get a pool stick or wtf ever. She doesn't fall down sobbing saying I'm not cheating. She doesn't chase after you.

 

3. In numerous discussions about your marriage she's never once asked you not to leave her. In fact, she's listing all kinds of reasons as to why you should leave her.

 

4. When asked if she still has feelings for her ex- she doesn't answer you.

 

5. SHE's trying to make you a better person. Yeah, abusing someone you love always makes them a better person.

 

6. She's PMSing and not on her meds so naturally she is not responsible for her behavior??

 

I'm sorry J- I think you're awesome but all of this rubs me the wrong way. This woman is giving NOTHING to this marriage as of right now-she's doing whatever she wants to and you're accepting it. She rode in the car with him, without a thought to how you would feel about all of that- she didn't care.

 

She's not a teenager- she's a married woman. It's time to grow up and be a partner. I'm with Bubbles- I think that the only way for you to wake her up is to pack her stuff.

 

I know she's had problems and all of that- but let's not use that as an excuse for her actions for the rest of her life.

 

I seriously think you should investigate some information on borderline personality disorders- the way she keeps turning that crap around on you reminds me of my mother- and she had one. PM me if you want the website address.

 

Please take care of yourself and put your needs first right now.

[jmargel]

Looking up borderline personality disorders I saw that alot of her traits match those described there. At least now I can put a name to alot of her behaviors.

 

These are the symptoms that match her:

 

Traits involving emotions:

Quite frequently people with BPD have a very hard time controlling their emotions. They may feel ruled by them. One researcher (Marsha Linehan) said, "People with BPD are like people with third degree burns over 90% of their bodies. Lacking emotional skin, they feel agony at the slightest touch or movement."

 

1. Shifts in mood lasting only a few hours.

 

2. Anger that is inappropriate, intense or uncontrollable.

 

8. Frantic efforts to avoid real or imagined abandonment

 

 

Splitting: the self and others are viewed as "all good" or "all bad." Someone with BPD said, "One day I would think my doctor was the best and I loved her, but if she challenged me in any way I hated her. There was no middle ground as in like. In my world, people were either the best or the worst. I couldn't understand the concept of middle ground."

 

Alternating clinging and distancing behaviors (I Hate You, Don't Leave Me). Sometimes you want to be close to someone. But when you get close it feels TOO close and you feel like you have to get some space. This happens often.

 

Great difficulty trusting people and themselves. Early trust may have been shattered by people who were close to you.

 

Sensitivity to criticism or rejection.

 

Miscellaneous attributes of people with BPD:

People with BPD are often bright, witty, funny, life of the party.

Many have a background of childhood physical, sexual, or emotional abuse or physical/emotional neglect.

 

Thing is like I said before unless she recognizes that she has a problem then there's not much I can do. She's going to end up like her dad, who in the end will live a very lonely life. Her step-mom basically gave up her 16 year old daughter because all he did was cause problems. She then had the nerve to tell me 'We hardly fight now since she's gone.'. Her own mother said this! I then replied 'Funny, the time I went to breakfast with you all, you were fighting so much that you were crying'. I have put up with quite a bit, but that's something I would never tolerate. The whole thing is, her step-mom is so messed up mentally now because of him she actually believes that it was her daughter's fault for leaving. She didn't like the 'supervision'. It's not. I've seen it firsthand, the verbal abuse he would give to her, the threats, the putdowns.

 

That's why it will get to a point where if Brandy doesn't go see someone I will have no choice but to leave. Right now however I am trying my best to at least show her what is wrong while trying to maintain my own dignity. I'm far from perfect but I can see the big picture here.

[whichwayisup]

That's why it will get to a point where if Brandy doesn't go see someone I will have no choice but to leave. Right now however I am trying my best to at least show her what is wrong while trying to maintain my own dignity. I'm far from perfect but I can see the big picture here.

 

Yup. You can only take so much, eventually this drama and her ups and downs will ruin things, even though the love is there. Until she decides enough is enough and gets some professional help I honestly can't see things changing alot. Bit by bit things could get better but with the way she is, the potiental of slipping back into old habits is always there waiting in the wings.

 

I hope someday she sees the big picture. Right now she can't see cuz of those blinders.

 

It's interesting to read about how she felt about this Kelly woman. Definately got her thinking -AND that is good! If it has had an effect on her - TAKE that and run with it. That is the example to keep on using - HOW she felt that night - Maybe she will understand your pain more because of that experience.

 

Definately ask her again about those feelings for her ex. I highly doubt she's inlove with him - But she may have some emotional attachment to him, which ofcourse, he knows and so does her father...Together they can play that up and use it against her...Sadly she doesn't see wtf is really going on and how they are manipulating her. It's very sad.

 

Hang in there Jeff! Good to hear your weekend went well.

[lilmoma1973]

Hey JMargel,

I have to agree with Ms Pixie.. I think you are giving what you can to this relationship and she is having her cake and eating it too..Did you say in your post that she doesn't have feelings for you anymore? Or was you talking about the ex.... I hope she see how lucky she is and releaze it before it is too late.. good luck hang in there!!

[blind_otter]

Originally posted by jmargel

Looking up borderline personality disorders I saw that alot of her traits match those described there. At least now I can put a name to alot of her behaviors.

 

I'm just going to say that I certainly respect the amount of effort that you've put into this relationship. But don't make the mistake of doing random psychological diagnoses without the proper training. I remember when I was getting my undergrad degree, we joked about "psych student syndrome" - all the psych students constantly self-diagnosing.

 

I warn against this because labelling this without the proper diagnosis can give you the illusion of control. You have none. This is her deal. Accepting that will probably help you more in the long run. I thought I had bipolar, or BPD, or even worse...but I have PTSD, diagnosed several times - and the symptoms can mimic a lot of other mental illnesses....just a gentle reminder.

[Mz. Pixie]

I'm certainly not a doctor, and I wasn't trying to imply that I was. However, once you're raised by someone who has this illness you can identify it in alot of people that you meet/hear about.

 

I agree that she needs a diagnosis- but that's unlikely to happen because she won't seek treatment- which is another trait of one with BPD- I don't have a problem- everyone else does!

 

I just hate this for J.