Breakup and Divorces recommended too Much

[OldRover]

Quite ofter on LS, it seems like posters are spring loaded to tell the OP to leave or divorce their SO anytime there is infidelity, bad behavior, too much or too little sex, etc..

 

Why are we so spring loaded to recommend bailing out?

 

Statistically, most infidelity situations can be saved. Bad behavior is easier to fix, sex can be. In a lot of situations, one just gets "tired" of the relationship and the advise is to bail.

 

Does anyone believe in problem solving and putting the relationship back together?

[central]

Solving a problem can be a lot harder and more effort than the outcome is worth. When you also have to deal with poor communication skills, badly hurt feelings, and severe lack of trust, it becomes even harder with even less chance of success. And if you do succeed in staying together, the lingering issues and feelings may doom a relationship later on.

 

It can be easier and more successful to learn from the mistakes made, and apply those to a new relationship without all the nasty baggage.

[autumnnight]

Quite ofter on LS, it seems like posters are spring loaded to tell the OP to leave or divorce their SO anytime there is infidelity, bad behavior, too much or too little sex, etc..

 

Why are we so spring loaded to recommend bailing out?

 

Statistically, most infidelity situations can be saved.

 

I don't know about this. In my experience, "saved" tends to mean, "I stayed, but I kinda hate her, and while I'm glad to bang her, I'm sorry I'm married to her."

 

Bad behavior is easier to fix,

 

Only if the person committing the bad behavior WANTS to and is committed to fixing it. Most of the time the fixing only lasts until they stop getting nagged about it.

 

sex can be.

 

I have personal experience with this one. Ya can't make a sloth into a cheetah. And most of the time the above comment applies. They just flat don't want to change. They just want to wait out your libido.

 

In a lot of situations, one just gets "tired" of the relationship and the advise is to bail.

 

IF this is the situation, I'll give advice out the wazoo on ways to become closer, spend time together, rekindle, etc. etc. And there are tons of books out there to help. THIS can be remedied with some work and commitment.

 

Does anyone believe in problem solving and putting the relationship back together?

 

In order for a problem to be solved, it has to go beyond "I'm sorry" or "I feel like crap" to real, loving, equal footing, eye toward the future intimacy Most people don't seem to want that. They want a special suffering trump card to hold onto so they can have the control.

[kgcolonel]

My perspective for what it's worth is to repair a marriage or even an intimate relationship you need two (2) parties that truly want and are willing to work on rebuilding the relationship. My take on many relationships is that there are many times not two in the relationship but one that wants R and the other has either checked out and sought comfort outside, or is not honest in their desire but narcissistic enough that it becomes more important to them to avoid looking like the bad person than owning their part and willing to do the heavy lifting to repair the R.

 

There are sometimes that even when it is truly wanted by both partners, one simply can't clear the mental anguish / images needed to move forward. When these situations occur, separation is appropriate. The saddest part is when children are involved and one parent chooses their own desires over the comfort, dedication and parenting of their kiddos.

[toolforgrowth]

"Divorce is forever. Marriage is for how long you can hack it." Louis CK

[Michelle ma Belle]

In order for a problem to be solved, it has to go beyond "I'm sorry" or "I feel like crap" to real, loving, equal footing, eye toward the future intimacy Most people don't seem to want that. They want a special suffering trump card to hold onto so they can have the control.

 

This is very true.

 

I would also like to add that saving a marriage takes TWO people who are committed to working at it TOGETHER. Period.

 

Regardless what the issues are that are straining a marriage, you can't save something unless it wants to be saved. BOTH people have to want it.

 

As far as I see it, you need three things to even have a shot at saving a marriage;

 

1. HONESTY - Not only with their spouse but with themselves

 

2. COMMUNICATION - This is the #1 issue in most unhappy marriages and one that so many people either do NOT do well or at all

 

3. COMMITMENT - A sincere willingness and effort to roll up their sleeves and work on rebuilding what's lost and damaged at whatever cost

 

Sadly, most men and women are not willing to accept these terms for whatever reason.

 

I just feel that if you're not going to do the work then get out.

Edited September 30, 2015 by Michelle ma Belle

[redtail]

Why are we so spring loaded to recommend bailing out?

 

I used to think that too, until after I was divorced.

 

"Bailing out" of a one sided relationship is the only option, if two people are committed to making it work, there are many options.

[carhill]

Quite ofter on LS, it seems like posters are spring loaded to tell the OP to leave or divorce their SO anytime there is infidelity, bad behavior, too much or too little sex, etc..

 

Individuals vary widely in their assignment of deal-breakers to voluntary relationships. They also experience a wide variety of life events in their own unique way. Hence, their advice will be personalized based on the confluence of many factors. In general, most people are not detached professional therapists and offer opinions from personal life. Sometimes that's helpful. Sometimes it's also helpful to get professional input.

 

Why are we so spring loaded to recommend bailing out?

 

If we've become that way, IMO it's because life in general is more disposable and disconnected. We throw a lot out and move around with ease in this now tiny world. People get tossed out and moved away from as well.

 

Statistically, most infidelity situations can be saved. Bad behavior is easier to fix, sex can be. In a lot of situations, one just gets "tired" of the relationship and the advise is to bail.

 

If both partners are motivated and dedicated, nearly any obstacle in their personal and relationship lives can be addressed and overcome. That's a big if. If one is 'tired', they're tired.

 

Does anyone believe in problem solving and putting the relationship back together?

 

In general I do because that's how I was socialized, by folks who lived in the same place all their lives and worked their relationships for the long-term, both marital and in general. However, I also must respect that others have their own viewpoints and those are just as valid. For some, it's simply more effective and pleasant to move on to other relationships, whether as an initial solution or one after some consideration and work.

 

After divorce, I tend to fall somewhere in between the role models I had and the 'move on' crowd, where before marriage was a life thing and divorce was an unrecoverable failure. MC, in my view, helped moderate that all or nothing black and white thinking. In some cases, it is healthier to move on.

[Got it]

I think for "Joe Schmos" like the majority of us, it is far easier to give advice like divorce than to have the understanding, education, and knowledge to be able to advise what could be a more complex and in depth route.

 

It is not saying divorce isn't a good recommendation but it is also easier to flippantly say than really try and get down to the nuances. And we are only hearing one side which adds to the limited advice.

[Spectre]

It's because if there is infidelity there is no respect or love on the part of your partner and thus no real reason to stay in the marriage. It'd be cruel NOT to tell a person to leave.

 

Bad behavior yeah I can get not wanting to tell people to end it right off the bat, but cheating? I don't care what statistics you cite. Do those take into account the aftermath? The emotional toll it takes on the person who forgave the cheater? Did it follow up with these couples after 5 years had passed? After 10?

 

If you want to talk stats then cool, stat wise there are plenty of fish in the sea and no reason to stay with a cheater who has so little respect for you they can't keep their clothes on until they talk about their issues with you.

[autumnnight]

I used to believe marriage forever no exceptions.

 

It makes me deeply sad that I no longer do. But....I've just lived to much and observed too much.

[road]

Quite ofter on LS, it seems like posters are spring loaded to tell the OP to leave or divorce their SO anytime there is infidelity, bad behavior, too much or too little sex, etc..

 

Why are we so spring loaded to recommend bailing out?

 

Statistically, most infidelity situations can be saved. Bad behavior is easier to fix, sex can be. In a lot of situations, one just gets "tired" of the relationship and the advise is to bail.

 

Does anyone believe in problem solving and putting the relationship back together?

 

 

 

I agree too many people never offer help on how to end an affair, how to recover a marriage. They just show that they only no how to say divorce the WS.

 

 

And, that is sad for most times the decision to do so is not black and white.

 

 

Yet people here can not wait to scream divorce without taking into consideration the collateral damage.

[mrs rubble]

The only time I believe a break up is essential is when abuse is involved, especially if there are children in the picture too.

I believe in fixing things if you can. My parents have been married for 50years and I can only remember a few loud arguements during my time with them, they always sorted it out.

[Mrs. John Adams]

We certainly want to see others reconcile....however....it is not an easy road to travel...and sometimes so much damage has been done that reconciliation is just not the best answer.

 

 

I usually only recommend divorce when i recognize too much anger and resentment in the posts by the OP.....watching which comments they like...which ones they side with is also a dead give away to what answers they are looking for.

 

I think divorce is sometimes the right answer....but many times reconciliation should at least be considered.

[TheGuard13]

A lot of people give that specific advice because quite often, the OP says something along the lines of "We've tried to fix our relationship with counseling, etc, and they just don't care enough to change or fix things". It's situational. Yes, it can be worth working on a relationship. But no one should have to stay in an unhappy situation if their partner isn't making the effort and meeting their needs.

[OldRover]

Wow,

 

What a bunch of negative comments!

 

Now, problem solving will be necessary in ANY relationship, regardless. So, you learn from the past, is it better to go with a known quantity, or someone unknown that you're starting from scratch?

 

Sure if you both hate each other and neither is going to work on it, bail. But will the next be any better?

 

Yes, you CAN change a sex desire. Not easy, and maybe not perfect, but can be very good and satisfying. And, again, will the next be better?

 

And Michelle... Yes you need these three things:

 

1. HONESTY - Not only with their spouse but with themselves

 

2. COMMUNICATION - This is the #1 issue in most unhappy marriages and one that so many people either do NOT do well or at all

 

3. COMMITMENT - A sincere willingness and effort to roll up their sleeves and work on rebuilding what's lost and damaged at whatever cost

 

But you'll need these in ANY relationship that's going anywhere. If you have a known quantity, why not pursue it and save it rather than gambling on a new mate.

 

And Spectre:

"Bad behavior yeah I can get not wanting to tell people to end it right off the bat, but cheating? I don't care what statistics you cite. Do those take into account the aftermath? The emotional toll it takes on the person who forgave the cheater? Did it follow up with these couples after 5 years had passed? After 10?"

 

Yes, do some research, and most couples stay together and build a better relationship and it works.

===

 

I strongly feel that too many just "give up" because they are not willing to fight for something and to improve what they had. They often thing that there's plenty of fish out there, but may or may not be true and who knows when you're starting over.

 

Sure, there's situations that just will NOT work, but the majority DO survive.

[S2B]

It just depends on the circumstances here that posters type out.

 

Generally speaking it's difficult to encourage a person to stay when they may be the only one making effort to change a situation they are unhappy with.

 

When it looks completely disrespectful - I would never encourage any poster to stay and sacrifice their integrity and self esteem just to say they stayed married.

 

 

Married isn't the end all - be all. I was married more than 20 years. This life without marriage is pretty awesome too.

 

 

I think it's more important to be happy than it is to be married.

[mrldii]

...Sure, there's situations that just will NOT work, but the majority DO survive.

 

I don't have a dog in this fight, but I just Googled "percentage of marriages that survive cheating" and got numbers all over the board.

 

If it was a religious-leaning site, it claimed 70% (who received church counseling); if it was a counselor-supported site, it claimed 56% (IF both parties agreed to counseling AND to the hard work necessary); more neutral sites (with no affiliation) claimed the number was in the 40-percentile.

 

Should everything be done to try to sustain an already-existing relationship, regardless of whether or not there was infidelity, whether there are or are not children, and/or whether there's a formal marriage or not? Absolutely.

 

However, according to the search, MOST experts agree there are 4 things that a union will NOT and SHOULD NOT survive (for the well-being of both parties):

 

* addiction (sex, gambling, porn, alcohol, drugs, etc.);

 

* abuse (verbal, mental, and/or physical);

 

* imbalance of 'power'/loss of the feeling of being on a team;

 

* narcissism/lack of empathy.

 

 

I can not speak for the other posters here, but when I agree/suggest that it's time to let it a relationship go, it's typically because the OP has indicated [at least one of] these issues is/are present in the OP's relationship - whether it's on the part OF the OP or the OP's partner.

 

As to your question/premise: "is it better to go with a known quantity, or someone unknown that you're starting from scratch? Sure if you both hate each other and neither is going to work on it, bail. But will the next be any better"?

 

ABsoLUTEly, leaving can be better - not if neither is going to work on it, but if both aren't going to. Just as it takes two to tango AND two to tangle...it takes two to create a relationship AND it takes two to maintain one.

 

 

As someone else suggested, by the time a member comes here and makes a post, typically they've already done the 'deep talks', the gut-wrenching soul-searching, and/or have exhausted relationship counseling and already know the answer; it's why they're now sharing their story with complete strangers who don't know them from Adam (or Eve) and simply want reassurances that they're NOT crazy and/or that they will survive life's latest trauma.

[Michelle ma Belle]

Wow,

 

I strongly feel that too many just "give up" because they are not willing to fight for something and to improve what they had. They often thing that there's plenty of fish out there, but may or may not be true and who knows when you're starting over.

 

Sure, there's situations that just will NOT work, but the majority DO survive.

 

I thought the purpose of this post was to discuss why the recommendation of so many members responding to posts about troubled marriages is to bail instead of working things out NOT a discussion about the demise of marriages in general. Which one do you want to talk about?

 

 

And how do you know the "majority" DO survive? Where did you get that information? What constitutes survival in your book? Is it just because a couple stays married?? What about happiness and trust and respect and effort?

 

I wholeheartedly agree with S2B; having been married myself for 20 years and now divorced, it's more important to be happy than married.

[Popsicle]

It doesn't matter what other people think. If you want to stay married then stay married.

[toolforgrowth]

It really all depends on what people consider to be dealbreakers. What I consider to be a dealbreaker, you may not.

 

My ex wife cheated, so I divorced her. I had no desire to reconcile or work on things with her from the moment I found out. My love for her died in an instant. And I never regretted my decision.

 

You may feel differently, as is your right. All I can do is make recommendations based on my experience. It's up to the person receiving it to determine if it's applicable to them or not.

[road]

It really all depends on what people consider to be dealbreakers. What I consider to be a dealbreaker, you may not.

 

My ex wife cheated, so I divorced her. I had no desire to reconcile or work on things with her from the moment I found out. My love for her died in an instant. And I never regretted my decision.

 

You may feel differently, as is your right. All I can do is make recommendations based on my experience. It's up to the person receiving it to determine if it's applicable to them or not.

 

Did you do this before or after you posted on a forum?

How long from D day to filing?

 

 

I ask because some people move out on D day and some takes years working at recovery before they get out of Dodge City.

[autumnnight]

I think that the internet has brought us some amazing things. And the support we can find from people in our situation has certainly opened up.

 

However, I think that for some, the pressure or desire to please a page full of strangers can unhealthily influence their actions and decisions. We all probably care too much what certain people think, and when we are vulnerable, in pain, in crisis...well ,that just makes us even more suggestible.

 

I think it is important to balance online recommendations with perspective from people who actually know us in flesh and blood who we respect. Even in non-affair situations, it is easy for someone behind a screen to say, "Just pack a bag and leave the abusive bum" to a woman with no family, no income, and a special needs child. It's easy to say to a WH who has confessed his affair with the woman from corporate who comes to his office once a year, "quite your job today," even if he is the breadwinner in a niche field with 3 kids and a wife whose chronic condition necessitates health insurance.

 

I've let my observations and emotions lead me to recommend D way more than I used to. That is because I see a lot of what some people called "survival" really just legally connected misery, and that makes me sad. And most of the time, the misery is - after a time - CHOSEN misery, and that makes me frustrated.

[Lois_Griffin]

I think in order to agree to reconcile with someone whose disrespected you in every single way with infidelity, is to basically agree to eat a huge sh*t sandwich - and continue taking bites of that sandwich for the rest of your life.

 

One only has to read the Reconciliation boards on the popular infidelity sites to get an idea of HOW much sh*t sandwich eating these betrayed spouses are STILL doing in order to stay with their cheating spouses. It's like self respect has flown right out the window for most of them.

 

I think anyone who can blatantly LIE to your face - day after day after day after day - sneak around, cheat on you, gaslight you, say bad things about you to their affair partner, possibly make plans to divorce you one day to be with their affair partner, hide things, claim to stay married only because they don't want to lose their children, and deceive you in EVERY possible way for months or YEARS is someone who isn't WORTHY of forgiveness or reconciliation.

 

Cheaters make a conscious CHOICE, every single damned day, to lie to your face and disrespect you. And some will do it for years, day in and day out.

 

Until they're caught.

 

Then they're suddenly OH, SO SORRY and want to stay married.

 

I couldn't, in good conscience, try to persuade ANYONE to stay with someone whose gone to these levels of disrespect and will always say to leave.

 

'Staying is the new shame,' according to the TED talks. I think they're right.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Lois_Griffin

[Mrs. John Adams]

Oh I don't think I have to eat anything.....

 

Reconciliation MEANS "the restoration of friendly relations."

 

It doesn't mean that one party holds something over the other person and disrespects them.

 

My husband holds me in great esteem...and that is reciprocated. It means we value each other and respect each other and do our best to reassure the other that they are the most important thing in the world.

 

Are there people who reconcile...people who "settle"....are there people who stay together for the children, for finances etc? Of course...and that decision is the best one for them....just as others feel divorce is the answer for them.

 

There is not blanket right or wrong answer....there is the answer that is "right" for you and your spouse and your situation.

 

i would add that i had affair and 2 years later my husband had an RA.....so we both know how it feels from both sides.

Edited October 1, 2015 by Mrs. John Adams