Breakup and Divorces recommended too Much

[OldRover]

IF both parties are willing to communicate and change and compromise sure it's useful to try and fix what is broken.

 

But what doesn't work is:

 

Abuse (unless complete change is obtained quickly)

Cheating ( unless the cheater is willing to do the work to change)

Power and control (overpowering and over controlling)

 

When one person does all the sacrifice and gives up all their power it's never going to look healthy.

 

When only one person is making effort to change its never going to get better.

 

 

I don't condone sacrificing self completely to be at the mercy of another and forfeiting ones self respect.

 

That's a boundary that will always look unhealthy/out of balance.

 

SB2,

 

You're absolutely right, and there's a lot of other things that are unacceptable, too. However, it's always reasonable to make a strong attempt to solve the problem, even if it starts out as one sided. I just don't like the situation where one throws the towel in without a fight. If it was that bad, they should have never married.

[poofitsgone]

Yep, OP, you are right. I've noticed this too. In fact, I just asked for advice here on my relationship in which there was cheating on both sides - physical on my part, emotional on his - and the very first response was to leave him! And even after I made it clear that otherwise it was a perfect relationship and it's a very long-term (7 yrs) one.

 

I can't imagine throwing away a good relationship so quickly, based on just ONE or TWO events, and I can only pray that most people are just plain wrong on this.

 

Without knowing your unique situation, so I wont comment on that. But I think everyone would agree that there are one or two events that are too extreme to put up with. What that line is is just different for different people.

 

Besides, cheating is not just one bad choice. It takes several to happen at all, and is almost always followed by many, many more.

 

-

 

OldRover...Its easy to say a marriage should never have happened in the first place, but without a time machine, that doesn't actually fix anything.

[Clockwork]

This is quite often what I do. If it starts off with things like "My wife and I" or "My husband and I" then I realize one thing, they've both made a public commitment to each other joined by marriage.

 

 

It is when the ones start out like: "My boyfriend of 8 years............."

 

 

or........

 

 

"My boyfriend of 3 months............"

 

 

That's a bit of a red flag there. If he isn't your husband after 8 years there is usually a reason why. And after 3 months? It might be a good thing that you found out about a deal breaker at this time.

 

 

But to tell someone to break up with their wife or husband? It has to be big for me.

[OldRover]

This is quite often what I do. If it starts off with things like "My wife and I" or "My husband and I" then I realize one thing, they've both made a public commitment to each other joined by marriage.

 

 

It is when the ones start out like: "My boyfriend of 8 years............."

 

 

or........

 

 

"My boyfriend of 3 months............"

 

 

That's a bit of a red flag there. If he isn't your husband after 8 years there is usually a reason why. And after 3 months? It might be a good thing that you found out about a deal breaker at this time.

 

 

But to tell someone to break up with their wife or husband? It has to be big for me.

 

Clock,

 

Very good points... when folks break up after a long commitment, it has to be much more serious and more difficult.

 

That's why I argue for not giving up without a fight. We live in too much of a throw away society, and I'm not one for just throwing a SO away without an effort.

[anika99]

OldRover, I both agree and disagree with you. I agree in that so many people these days think that there own desires and feelings are of utmost importance and should be given top priority over everything and everyone else. The moment they feel dissatisfied with their relationship or the relationship hits a bad spot then they think "oh this isn't making me happy so I must leave because I have the right to be happy, my whole life is about making myself feel happy."

 

However, I don't think those are the kind of people who turn to relationship forums looking for help. The thread that seemed to spark this thread was by a woman who was with a clearly controlling, paranoid, abusive man and this man saw no problem with his own behaviour. That is exactly the kind of thread where I will beg the poster to end the relationship. Same with repeated infidelity where the cheater continues to cheat and lie and blame everything on their spouse. As so many have said there needs to be a willingness from both parties to want to make the relationship a good one.

[Woggle]

If a couple are both good people but just drifted apart because the responsibilities of life got in the way then I would encourage making it work. If that foundation of love and respect is there the rest of the house can be restored.

 

If you are with somebody who cheats on you, abuses you or mistreats you then get out. Nobody should be with anybody who cares so little about them that they can't treat them with any dignity or decency.

[OldRover]

If a couple are both good people but just drifted apart because the responsibilities of life got in the way then I would encourage making it work. If that foundation of love and respect is there the rest of the house can be restored.

 

If you are with somebody who cheats on you, abuses you or mistreats you then get out. Nobody should be with anybody who cares so little about them that they can't treat them with any dignity or decency.

 

It all depends.... on the reasons for the cheating, abuse or mistreatment. You don't have to bail the first time that happens. You need to understand why, and find out if there's a solution.

[MJJean]

It all depends.... on the reasons for the cheating, abuse or mistreatment. You don't have to bail the first time that happens. You need to understand why, and find out if there's a solution.

 

Nope. Sorry, but nope.

 

There are some actions in life that have severe and far reaching consequences. Abusing and cheating on one's partner are two of those actions. And rightly so.

 

I never needed to understand why my ex cheated. And I never needed to understand why he was physically abusive, either. All I needed to know was that he did those things, was unacceptable as a mate, and that's that.

[understand50]

All,

 

I tend to be a "reconciliation" guy. When I read posts, I try to see, from my point of view, if there is anything to save. Sometime there just is not anything, and it is best to separate.

 

For those on the fence, I try and use my story on how I and my wife managed to make it work. I recommend other posts and threads that I think may help. Sometime, I just give a "virtual" hug, as that is all that is left to give, some support. A idea that life will go on, things can get better, and will if you let them.

 

I think there are some, who just do not accept the decision of the OP, when it is made. They want and are trying to reconcile, but the drum beat of divorce just continues. We have seen WS, really try and put things right, do all that should and can morally be done, and still some will shout divorce. If we tend to have a "divorce" only bias, if is because we do not read and understand and accept what the OP, or WS, wants or is asking. Sometimes it is HOW do I go about reconciling, other times, HOW do I go about divorcing.

 

Once the path is chosen, and unless we think real abuse is being done, we should accept and respect what the poster is trying to do. It is then for us to offer support, advise, compassion and help.

 

Just my thought.

[casey.lives]

The reason why people recommend breaking up is because people get together too fast to begin with. Dating is not an automatic relationship. people forget that. Dating is getting to know each other.. not a commitment. This is why dating should be a short period .. and then you get engaged. At 2 yrs, take it or leave it, should be everyone's motto.

[Stage5Clinger]

Does anyone believe in problem solving and putting the relationship back together?

 

Nah, dude based on what you've said you need to B-A-I-L!!!! This girl's a mess you don't need that in your life. Wait what are we talking about?

[OldRover]

Nope. Sorry, but nope.

 

There are some actions in life that have severe and far reaching consequences. Abusing and cheating on one's partner are two of those actions. And rightly so.

 

I never needed to understand why my ex cheated. And I never needed to understand why he was physically abusive, either. All I needed to know was that he did those things, was unacceptable as a mate, and that's that.

 

MJ

 

We'll agree to disagree. If you don't know what caused the problem, you could be part of it. There's lot's of reasons and lots of solutions.

 

If your solution is to split, then do it. But don't think it's a good solution for all, regardless of the reasons.

[autumnnight]

MJ

 

We'll agree to disagree. If you don't know what caused the problem, you could be part of it. There's lot's of reasons and lots of solutions.

 

If your solution is to split, then do it. But don't think it's a good solution for all, regardless of the reasons.

 

I'm sorry, but when a man rares back and puts his fist through a woman's jaw (or vice versa), advising that victim of abuse to stay and work it out while figuring out what they did to "cause" the abuse is irresponsible and ridiculous.

[justavillagegirl]

Old Rover - I have no idea what world you live in, clearly not the real one. You have the audacity to say people should stay in abusive relationships and 'work it out'. Do you know how many women (and men too) stay with cheaters and abusers and tell themselves if they try harder the person will change and things will get better? Too many.

 

Nobody should recommend divorce over a slight hiccup but at the same time nobody needs to guilt themselves into staying with a cheater/abuser to avoid becoming another divorce statistic. It takes two to make a marriage work - you're going by the assumption that eventually the resistant partner will 'come around' and it may be true but why should somebody force themselves to stay in a miserable situation and deal with disrespect daily?

 

What you call a 'throw away culture' I call people having the guts to leave situations that make them miserable. Life is too short to be anything but happy.

[MJJean]

MJ

 

We'll agree to disagree. If you don't know what caused the problem, you could be part of it. There's lot's of reasons and lots of solutions.

 

If your solution is to split, then do it. But don't think it's a good solution for all, regardless of the reasons.

 

Again, sorry, but nope. Again, I don't care why. Why doesn't matter in the least. The point is that he behaved in extremely unacceptable ways that normal people with healthy boundaries and self esteem consider dealbreakers and walk away from.

 

Should I have wasted years of my life in hopes that the man could be repaired and turned into a decent human being? I was 24 with 2 children to raise. Ain't nobody got time for that!

 

I'm 40 now. Remarried 12 years ago, been with DH 15 years. We raised the kids I had and added another. Bought a house and a couple of cars. Got a few dogs and a parrot. Have a good life.

 

My ex also remarried. He had two more children. They lost custody of one for abuse and neglect. His mother has that kid. Social Services is in the process of removing the other child. They've been kicked out of two apartments in the last couple years for filthy household conditions. He hasn't worked in 5 years and his mom pays all of their bills. He owes over $200,000 in unpaid child support for a total of 4 kids. 2 he had before he met me and the 2 from our marriage. He's never paid a dime for any of them outside of the $500 he gets charged every time he gets arrested for unpaid child support.

 

My oldest daughter moved in with her paternal grandmother to attend school. She's 22 now. We talk and according to her, he has not only hit the kid he lost custody of, but he regularly hits his wife, too. And she has caught them both cheating on each other.

 

I'm going with it definitely wasn't me, he was and is completely irreparable, and leaving was the only sane solution.

Edited October 11, 2015 by MJJean

[OldRover]

Again, sorry, but nope. Again, I don't care why. Why doesn't matter in the least. The point is that he behaved in extremely unacceptable ways that normal people with healthy boundaries and self esteem consider dealbreakers and walk away from.

 

Should I have wasted years of my life in hopes that the man could be repaired and turned into a decent human being? I was 24 with 2 children to raise. Ain't nobody got time for that!

 

I'm 40 now. Remarried 12 years ago, been with DH 15 years. We raised the kids I had and added another. Bought a house and a couple of cars. Got a few dogs and a parrot. Have a good life.

 

My ex also remarried. He had two more children. They lost custody of one for abuse and neglect. His mother has that kid. Social Services is in the process of removing the other child. They've been kicked out of two apartments in the last couple years for filthy household conditions. He hasn't worked in 5 years and his mom pays all of their bills. He owes over $200,000 in unpaid child support for a total of 4 kids. 2 he had before he met me and the 2 from our marriage. He's never paid a dime for any of them outside of the $500 he gets charged every time he gets arrested for unpaid child support.

 

My oldest daughter moved in with her paternal grandmother to attend school. She's 22 now. We talk and according to her, he has not only hit the kid he lost custody of, but he regularly hits his wife, too. And she has caught them both cheating on each other.

 

I'm going with it definitely wasn't me, he was and is completely irreparable, and leaving was the only sane solution.

 

MJJean,

 

Agree with you, you did the right thing and got out, and hope you do well. I won't condone excessive abuse, or physical abuse, but have in an unusual situation. Infidelity is bad, but can be fixed. Stats bear that out. But that's a personal choice, so if one just can't take it, then bail. However, often there's more to the story.

 

There's no reason that one should be physical against anyone to cause them harm. Occasionally one gets physical by mistake, and that may be fixed. If it's a habit, I'd agree with bailing out. I could argue strongly that a man, who is usually stronger, should NEVER hit a woman (spankings excepted<g>). I've never hit a woman, but have been struck by a woman, usually drinking involved, and I just held her back until she calmed down, however, there was no intent to cause real harm, just being overly aggressive to make a point. Life went on, but it wasn't excessive. I don't want to live with that, but it's not enough to bail out. There are people here that would tell me to get away as fast as I could and never look back, and that's what I'm talking about.

 

Sometimes things are worse and we should try until there is no possible solution, like excessive beating of any kind, especially with the intent to cause real harm.... bruises, broken bones, knocked out, etc. In that case, I'd say bail.

[justavillagegirl]

Old Rover - I understand your point but like it had been said in this thread many times, people have different boundaries. You may be willing to put up with a lot but others aren't. Yes, infidelity doesn't have to spell divorce but to some, including myself, it is unforgivable. You may not share that POV but respect it. The world doesn't come with an instruction manual of how to deal with abuse and betrayal so agree to disagree instead of trying to condemn/belittle those who choose not to stay in those types of situations.