Christy31 Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 I am 31 and been married 9 years. My husband and I have no children together. We have had our ups and downs but managed to get through them somehow in the past. We used to be close and share more intimacy and feelings with each other, but this has slowly faded away with time. We moved about 4 years ago 3 hours from my hometown where we spent the first 5 years of our marriage. My husband at that time joined a Christian Church. He has been a member there for the last 3 years. He is on the Board of Directors and in the Choir. He is at board meetings once a week right after his 8-5 job, he is at choir practice twice a week after his 8-5 job, and he is at church services twice a week! And all of these things last at least 3 hours each or more. He is never at home, and when he is at home he is constantly working on something at the house or working from home for his job. Sometimes I feel like it is my fault that he goes so much so he doesn't have to spend time with me. I become bitchy when he mentions he is going to church for yet another event so it has gotten to the point that he lies and tells me he is working when he is at church (I drove by once and saw his car there). I tried attending this church several times and found myself so uncomfortable with the services and what was said, as well as the sheer length of time it took to consider becoming a member. I suggested to my husband that we find a compromise, something we both can feel good about as we are married (as a side note, I grew up in a Christian Church). He refused, telling me he can't believe that I would ask him to leave this Church. I am sick inside. My family all lives far away, and his mother and father are about as religious. I am scared to try to have children as he will want them to go to HIS church (he has already told me this several times). I miss my old husband, fun loving, romantic, sometimes with a wild streak. I don't know who he is anymore and it sickens me that I am in this situation. I have talked at length about all of this and more to him and nothing changes. He will make time for me about 1-2 hours a week and that's it. It's like we are roommates. He sleeps on the couch most of the time and we are lucky to have sex once a month. I am an attactive woman and find myself wanting to have an affair because I am so sad in my marriage and feel like my husband doesn't find me attractive. I work out everyday and eat right. I have left him little notes telling him I love him, sent him emails, text messages, you name it. I have made romantic dinners and dressed "sexy" for him and I get NOTHING in return. No notes, no love, no sex, no kiss. I feel like my life is passing me by and I don't know what else to do. This church is more important to him than I am and I can't compete with that. Please help.
JadeStar Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 Maybe I missed something, but why do you feel uncomfortable in "his" church? What kind of church is it? Why do you want to go find another church? The affiar thing will only complicate things. Have you asked him why when you send him notes, texts etc saying "I love you" why he doesn't send you one back?
whichwayisup Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 This church is more important to him than I am and I can't compete with that. Tell him that. And actually say if things don't improve maybe we should separate. Tell him that because he has basically not spent any time with you, that you're even considering an affair, though you really don't want to go down that road.... He has the chance to fix things NOW, not tomorrow, next week or next month. NOW! Get to marriage councilling, and if he suggests somebody in the Church to help council, say NO. Put your foot down. Good luck, and I feel for you.
quankanne Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 sounds like he's hit the "buddy stage" of your relationship. he loves you dearly and considers you his best friend, but doesn't necessarily see you as a woman with sexual and emotional needs. it's more like you're his favorite comfortable shirt or recliner .... since he's so wrapped up in church ministry, talk to the pastor about your concerns of how this is affecting your marriage then see if y'all can arrange to talk with someone about this. I get the feeling that he'll prolly listen to a fellow church member much more willingly than if you just try to approach him alone. also think about esttablishing a weekly date night for the two of you, one that cannot be broken or rescheduled unless dire circumstances prevail.
only1life Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 Sorry you're going thru this. Religious beliefs can be a powerful thing for some people. But for him to practically abandon you for church sounds suspicious. #1 - Do not have an affair. Doing so will only complicate things beyond what you can imagine!! Anyone on this board will confirm this! #2 - Make sure he knows exactly how strongly you feel about how he is ignoring you. Print and show him a copy of your message. Your words tell powerful story and if he continues to ignore you, then your marriage is in trouble. #3 - Find a good marriage councilor, one not affiliated with his church. Use the councilor to build communication between you two, and to determine if the changes he is going thru are going to end your relationship. Good luck.
ConfusedInOC Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 I agree. Tell him how you feel. Be open and honest (except the affair part, don't do it and don't tell him you are thinking about it.) Tell him that you are a partnership and that the needs of his wife are not being met. If he's a good Christian, he should know how important it is to love his wife and make sure she knows it. He's definitely obsessed with the Church. Open the dialog and get communication going. Get counseling. If he refuses either, draw a line in the sand. If he won't cross it, then separate from him. If he doesn't come back to you, then it's time to consider divorce. Sorry, I wish I had the ultimate answer but marriage is a partnership and you can't have a good partnership if your OS isn't including you in his life and meeting your needs.
whichwayisup Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 Be open and honest (except the affair part, don't do it and don't tell him you are thinking about it.) I disagree there. Maybe if he knows HOW close she is coming to an affair, it WILL open up his eyes. Read around the infidelity posts. MOST BS say "if only I knew - Then I could have STOPPED the affair, or atleast HAD the chance to fix what was missing from the marriage..." Telling him may open his eyes - Nothing else has worked, infact, he has regressed further from her and involved himself more into the Church. The real issue really isn't about "Church", it's about his choice of NOT wanting to spend time with his wife - And that's wrong!
JadeStar Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 Not saying this is the way that it is but maybe a possibility. Do you think its possible its not really so much the church itself his obsessed with, but maybe someone in the church? Unless he attends a rather large church with a big chior, I would have to say that chior meetings don't usually last 3 hours. You stated most of his meetings, choir practice etc last 3 hours. Also if hes so big time in the church, he should know what love is and how to express it. Hes not so busy that he can't text you back, write a short note or verbally say "I love you." I don't think it has to do with the church at all, its something else. Get to the root of the matter. Go sit in on a choir meeting one night with out his knowledge, see whats going on. Jade
ConfusedInOC Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 Originally posted by whichwayisup I disagree there. Maybe if he knows HOW close she is coming to an affair, it WILL open up his eyes. Read around the infidelity posts. MOST BS say "if only I knew - Then I could have STOPPED the affair, or atleast HAD the chance to fix what was missing from the marriage..." Maybe so, I just don't think it's something she should bring up immediately. Unless she doesn't do a good job of explaining that her needs aren't being met, she can allude to the possibility of an affair without actually saying it. Telling him may open his eyes - Nothing else has worked, infact, he has regressed further from her and involved himself more into the Church. The real issue really isn't about "Church", it's about his choice of NOT wanting to spend time with his wife - And that's wrong! Agreed. That's why COMMUNICATION is the key. She needs to poke and prod him to get to the crux of the issues he's having while making sure he understands what he's doing to her and the consequences of not making an immediate, and permanent, adjustment.
magda Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 I think you should try to find a way to become involved in "his" church. If it's just CHURCH and a relationship with god that he is doing this for, in theory, if you found another church you really liked, you might get him to divide his time between them. I think you should give "his" church some more chances though... maybe not spend the majority of your time there, but at least enough so that it's a shared experience. And of course, talk to your husband about it. But at the moment it's a standstill - he wants church, you want no church. Not gonna work without compromise from both sides. So make the first gesture of compromise.
Moose Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 The husband is the spiritual leader of the family. The husband makes the decisions of what sect his family involves themselves in. God Himself appointed these tasks to the husband. The husband is to love his wife as Christ loves His Church. He's doing everything right, save the last fact. He's neglected the needs of his wife. Ask your husband what would happen if Christ neglected the needs of His Church. He needs to communicate with you about how you feel, and why you feel. This will have a direct impact on his decision making concerning spiritual needs of his family. God First Family Second Himself Last
Israfil Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 Do you think its possible that its not just Jesus who he wants to commune with at the church? Has an affair occurred to you? Yes, communication is the key. However, when people get addicted, whether its to drugs, alcohol, sex, or in this case the church, most times you can’t rationalize with them. Sometimes the efforts to save a marriage aren’t worth it. You might want to consider separation as an option.
WithOrWithoutYou Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 Well, as much as I know how annoying it must be to be married to Ned Flanders ("The Simpsons" reference), you do seem to love your husband, and you do seem to really want back the man you married. He may still be in there, but it may take a lot of work to find him. If you are really up for trying, here is some advice. 1. DO NOT have any kids with this guy if and until he is once again the man you married. Kids will NOT make things better. 2. DO talk to the "pastor" about your concerns regarding your marriage (you can leave out the thinking about an affair part when talking to him), and ask him to have a talk with your H. If you talking to the pastor about this upsets your husband, that cuts strongly in favor of your H being a hypocrite rather than a true believer. It also suggests, but does not prove, that he may be spending so much time at church for reasons other than faith. He should want his pastor involved in trying to save your marriage in a religious context, unless it really is all about appearances, or even something darker (like another woman). 3. DO also get professional (NOT the pastor, or anyone from the his church) secular mutual marriage counseling. Do not negotiate this or agree that it is not necessary. You will need a neutral, relationship-centered perspective, rather than just a religious one. 4. DO attend his church once per week, on Sunday, if it will help him feel closer to you. 5. DO ask him to spend at least 4 evenings a week with you. That leaves 3 for the church, and is very reasonable (it also means, that since he has already committed 4 nights a week to the church, that he would actually have to make a real adjustment away from the church, and in favor of your relationship - this is something that needs to happen if you want to avoid divorce). If you want to throw the whole "love your wife as Christ loves His church" thing at him, fine, but you should really be able to work on your marriage in an honest way between the two of you. When it degenerates into the two of you thumping the bible at each other in new and creative ways to serve what you both percieve as your own interests, that is usually a bad thing (and it sounds like he would probably out-thump you anyway). 6. DO NOT have an affair. If at some point you decide that it is not able to be saved, and he is just being totally unreasonable, and that your marriage isn't nearly important enough to him, then get a divorce before finding someone else. You are still young, and it is not too late to do that, but work on saving your marriage first if you really want to do that, and see what happens. Again, be VERY careful to not get pregnant before this is resolved, one way or the other. I also agree with those that have said there may be more he is seeking at church than a closer relationship with God. It could also be, however, that he has just retreated into religious dogma and church activities as a way to replace a lack of connection with you. Either way, however, this is not good for your marriage. You need to have a serious talk with him, put your foot down, and tell him that you think religion is fine, and will even attend his church, but that his extreme level of involvement is interfering with your relationship, and that God would not want his participation in church activities (rather than just services) to destroy his relationship with his wife, and that his always being at church and never being with you is doing exactly that. Tell him you love him, and want to work on this, but you cannot and will not continue the way things are. If he wants to talk to the pastor, fine, but insist on the secular mutual marriage counseling as well.
JadeStar Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 I don't think seperation is an option right now, unless either hes not willing to communicate with her and find some kind of compromise after she has told him how shes feels. Or unless theres something else going on other than him being with "obessed" with the church. It may be very well hes very devoted to the church, but it might be something else thats devoting his time as well. Sometimes people will use the church as a ploy to make others think they are good doers when in fact its not the church thats keeping them coming back, but something else. Once again not saying thats the case, but possible. Tell him how you feel. Jade
Christy31 Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 Well more on the Church my husband goes to, there is a lot of falling down, running around the room, yelling on the pulpit, telling us gays are all destined for hell and how smoking, drinking (of any kind) and a low cut shirt are all sinful. Services really are 3 hours or more. They also ask for his money alot of the time knowing he has some, he gives so much he refuses to tell me. As a result we keep separate checking accounts. I expressed a desire to place our money together (until I saw how much he was giving to them) and he won't do it, probably for fear of my reaction once I saw how much money they get (which he doesn't know that I know). Also, the Pastor was kicked out of a larger group of churches because of misappropriation of Church funds. Some members left as a result. He drives a fully loaded Lexus and a Cadillac Escalade. His wife wears name brands only and lots of jewelry. It is outright tacky. They (members, Pastor) call him if he misses a practice or even service to see when he will be back. It's weird to me. They (primarily members) even send him cards that tell him they are praying for me and "my salvation" . I resent that because I am Christian and do believe in Jesus. They make me feel so bad I grew up Lutheran which is more structured. I have slowly become resentful towards religion in general, and I haven't always been that way. I feel like I would come around if we could agree on someplace. I want us to go together somewhere we can agree on. Talking to his Pastor or even a member at his Church about all of this is out of the question since they will all blame me for these problems we are having. As far as him having an affair, I don't think so. Unfortunately at one point I thought it may be that but it wasn't. I admit I have checked on him, but he has always been where he said he would be. And he does invite me from time to time so I don't think it is someone in the Church.
WithOrWithoutYou Posted May 18, 2005 Posted May 18, 2005 Originally posted by Christy31 Well more on the Church my husband goes to, there is a lot of falling down, running around the room, yelling on the pulpit, telling us gays are all destined for hell and how smoking, drinking (of any kind) and a low cut shirt are all sinful. Services really are 3 hours or more. They also ask for his money alot of the time knowing he has some, he gives so much he refuses to tell me. As a result we keep separate checking accounts. I expressed a desire to place our money together (until I saw how much he was giving to them) and he won't do it, probably for fear of my reaction once I saw how much money they get (which he doesn't know that I know). Also, the Pastor was kicked out of a larger group of churches because of misappropriation of Church funds. Some members left as a result. He drives a fully loaded Lexus and a Cadillac Escalade. His wife wears name brands only and lots of jewelry. It is outright tacky. They (members, Pastor) call him if he misses a practice or even service to see when he will be back. It's weird to me. They (primarily members) even send him cards that tell him they are praying for me and "my salvation" . I resent that because I am Christian and do believe in Jesus. They make me feel so bad I grew up Lutheran which is more structured. I have slowly become resentful towards religion in general, and I haven't always been that way. I feel like I would come around if we could agree on someplace. I want us to go together somewhere we can agree on. Talking to his Pastor or even a member at his Church about all of this is out of the question since they will all blame me for these problems we are having. As far as him having an affair, I don't think so. Unfortunately at one point I thought it may be that but it wasn't. I admit I have checked on him, but he has always been where he said he would be. And he does invite me from time to time so I don't think it is someone in the Church. Ok, I take back the part about attending his church once per week, and talking to the pastor. It really sounds like the pastor is the villain here, especially if he was already booted out of another denomination for stealing money from the congregation (that is usually what "misappropriation" is a nice way of saying). Churches like that (more about money than God) make me physically ill, and I wouldn't expect you to subject yourself to it. Religion, for those who believe, is a very serious matter, but "Praise the Lord, and pass the collection basket because my wife needs a new Lexus and Prada bag", and "why were you not at church last night!" is just wrong. As for the condescending "praying for your salvation", that sounds to me like a manipulative tool, to get your H to give more money, and guilt you into "joining the fold" (heh, maybe your husband felt compelled to "testify" about the seperate checking account). You still need to have a heart to heart with your husband though, tell him your feelings about all of this, just like you have told us, and ask him for 4 evenings a week. Quote some scripture if you must I guess, but in the end, it is going to have to be about you, and your marriage. You don't have kids, and divorce is an option if he will not make you a priority. It's sad, because from what you have said, it sounds like your H may be a victim who got caught up in the ministry of a charasmatic pastor with less than honorable intentions, but you still cannot be number two in his life. You must insist on being number one (not necessarily ahead of God, but DEFINATELY ahead of this Lexus-driving charasmatic pastor and the church). If he won't do that, you may need to end it. It doesn't sound like he is even the man you married anymore, and needs to be "de-programmed". Whether he allows that to happen and resumes being the man you married again, will determine whether you can save your marriage. Good luck. It sounds like you have lost your husband to a greedy, pretentious pastor and congregation, who probably want his money and his but in the seat more than his soul. I hope you can get him back. Let us know how it goes.
Moose Posted May 19, 2005 Posted May 19, 2005 Well more on the Church my husband goes to, there is a lot of falling down, running around the room, yelling on the pulpit, telling us gays are all destined for hell and how smoking, drinking (of any kind) and a low cut shirt are all sinful.It is his decision how to worship God. This is a little too much for me. I've visited Pentacostal Churches before, and as fired up as they get for God, I don't agree with their interpretations of the Bible. Even so, I stand by what I said earlier about the husband being the Spiritual Leader. I can understand your frustration, and the only advice I can give is going to come off wrong by some people on here....sooooo, let me first make it clear that this is what I'd do in your situation, and it's my opinion that it's not wrong or evil to use the Scriptures to point out the obvious to followers. It's true that God expects you to be the obedient wife. Your toleration so far for this makes you shine brighter in His eyes than your husbands antics, false preaching, and participation of worship showmanship.......this is the mindset you need to be in. Study the scriptures on your own. Read for yourself what Christ intended man and woman to be for each other. The roles of each. The steps it takes to bring peace into your home and with each other. How we are expected to worship Him. Your husband is stuck in the Old Testament.....visit the New Testament and see how the story turns out....... Then, talk to him. Explain to him how you feel. Show him what you've learned. Explain to him what's missing in your marriage according to you and to Scripture. If this man can't sit and listen to his own wife over this Church, it's time to leave for a bit and shock him back to reality.
JadeStar Posted May 19, 2005 Posted May 19, 2005 You stated he spends alot of time there. He doesn't tell you he loves you be it texting you back, notes or verbally. He spends most of his time sleeping on the couch and sex isn't that often. Tey ask him for lots of money. They call if he doesn't show up for practice. You feel the pastor will bash you or blame you if you were to talk with him about your husband. Sounds like a church that has that much of a hold over someone is kind of like brainwashing. All you can do is talk with him and tell him how you feel. If he still doesn't want to communicate with you, going to counseling etc, then maybe you need to give him a reality check. Jade
only1life Posted May 19, 2005 Posted May 19, 2005 Sounds more like a cult than a church! And it sounds like no matter what you do, they will condemn you for it, unless you join their ways, and then you will loose your personality and become one of their puppets. Fighting them will be a difficult and loosing battle. A person's beliefs are their own to decide, and if your husband decides to continue to share this church's beliefs, it really isn't your place to try and change it, no more than he should try to change yours. Do you really think you have a real marriage anymore? What do you have to gain if you stay with your husband? I stayed with my wife in our troubled times cause she still makes me laugh, she makes me feel good, she shares with me and we communicate and enjoy life together. Your husband doesn't share anything with you, he doesn't spend time with you, he doesn't even make love to you! Think about it. Do you really have a life with him anymore? Sorry to be so blunt, but think about it, isn't that what's going on here? Consider going back to your hometown, move in with family or friends for a while. See if your husband even cares enough about you to come and try to make your marriage worthwhile again.
Mr Spock Posted May 28, 2005 Posted May 28, 2005 Good luck trying to convince your whack job husband that you're just as important as his church. Those kinds of places appeal to people who've never felt they fit in anywhere........ If it were me, I'd ask if continuing on with this line of faith is worth losing a wife over. And go from there.
Guest Posted May 29, 2005 Posted May 29, 2005 I am in the same situation!!! My DH also loves his church more than me, and has goen off the deep end about his religion. I used to be a Christian, but I no longer want to be one. DH also refuses to get marriage counseling unless it is at HIS church with HIS PASTOR, who I don't like or trust! And I HAVE had an affair, and want to be with the other guy=who is not religious at all. I'm thinkign that me and H will probably get a divorce.... my H used to be a lot more fun but now all of his free time is at the church and spent with church ppl...
MJTig Posted July 29, 2005 Posted July 29, 2005 Originally posted by Moose It's true that God expects you to be the obedient wife. Your toleration so far for this makes you shine brighter in His eyes than your husbands antics, false preaching, and participation of worship showmanship.......this is the mindset you need to be in. The church I believe in expects it to be partnership, Moose. Not one person over the other, not Man and wife, not "Obey". In fact the words "obey" have been struck out of most Catholic wedding rites. You need to remember that the Bible is written by men, in a time where men were the expected leader and only voice in the family. Times have changed, and I do not believe that a marriage where a wife is expected to be "obedient" is a healthy one. MUTUALLY RESPECTFUL. None of us really know what exactly God wants, but I believe what God (not a "He" or "She") is pleased with is her dedication to make this right and work on the marriage. not he being obedient. To the OP, I suggest what has been said about getting a secular counselor to help at least you, hopefully both. He did take vows to love and cherish you- and he is not upholding those.
MJTig Posted July 29, 2005 Posted July 29, 2005 Originally posted by Moose It's true that God expects you to be the obedient wife. Your toleration so far for this makes you shine brighter in His eyes than your husbands antics, false preaching, and participation of worship showmanship.......this is the mindset you need to be in. The church I believe in expects it to be partnership, Moose. Not one person over the other, not Man and wife, not "Obey". In fact the words "obey" have been struck out of most Catholic wedding rites. You need to remember that the Bible is written by men, in a time where men were the expected leader and only voice in the family. Times have changed, and I do not believe that a marriage where a wife is expected to be "obedient" is a healthy one. MUTUALLY RESPECTFUL. None of us really know what exactly God wants, but I believe what God (not a "He" or "She") is pleased with is her dedication to make this right and work on the marriage. Not her being obedient. To the OP, I suggest what has been said about getting a secular counselor to help at least you, hopefully both. He did take vows (in a church, correct- in front of God) to love and cherish you- and he is not upholding those. God believes in family being an extension of the Church... if that promise in front of God is being ignored. I don't see how that's any good.
clandestinidad Posted July 29, 2005 Posted July 29, 2005 Did you say what church it is? I mean, without the exact name, what denomination and stuff????? It really does sound like he's gotten involved in some brainwashing/cultist behavior. B/c a good Christian church teaches how important family/spouses are. I hate to say this, but I think you need to hear this possibility. He might be interested in or having an affair or close relationship w/ someone else who goes there. If he wasnt, then this huge 'need'/'desire' to be there at ALL times, sleep on the couch, never give you any attention/affection, etc wouldnt be happening......unless he's been brainwashed, of course He really should step back, realize what God says about spirituality b/n partners (which DOES NOT mean that the man makes all the decisions and the woman follows along behind)...it means that for both partners to get what they need and worship God, they AGREE on where they go to church Also, yes the Bible teaches for a wife to submit/respect....but the bigger section discusses the MAN'S role, as one who leads and loves as GOD himself does. God does NOT lead as if in command.....he leads in love. I will look up that part and post it as soon as I can
clandestinidad Posted July 29, 2005 Posted July 29, 2005 Okay, here it is: (I hope I dont get in trouble for quoting the Bible...will I???) Ephesians 5:22 is where the often misinterpreted passage starts...but its important to read the whole part until 5:33. It explains the man's role, which is muuuuch bigger than "wives be submissive/respectful to your husbands" It goes on to explain that husbands are to "be the head of the wife, as christ is the head of the church"..."the savior of the body" (body meaning church body)...."husbands love your wives just as christ loved the church and gave himself up for her"....."that he might sanctify her, having cleansed her by the washing of water w/ the word" (meaning to help her in the word of God)...."that he might present to himself the church (wife) in all her glory...that she is holy and blameless"...."ought to also love their wives as their own bodies", "he who loves his own wife loves himself; for no one ever hated his own flesh, but nourishes and cherishes it, just as christ also does the church b/c we are members of His body"....."love his wife even as himself; and let the wife see to it that she respect her husband" So, when the husband does this according to christ/god, the wife shall honor/respect/submit. The thing is, when there's a tyrranical husband who doesnt follow the Bible and its teachings correctly, the wives no longer submit/respect. Allegiance is to God first, not a tyrranical husband
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