Hoping to stop the downhill plunge.... Update.

[BlueIris]

Then you’ve found a way- perform acts of service. She did something to make you feel loved through sex and touch. This sounds like good progress.

[oldshirt]

.....the important point on want to make on the love language issue is that since I am so strongly 'Physical Touch' in my love language, I feel way deep down that other people are too.

 

That means way deep down I feel that if I am affectionate and I am sexually into her and give her good lovins and give her lots of orgasms and passion throughout the week, she should be good to go too.

 

But that's not the case. We had good chemistry and she dug all the orgasms and hot sex over the years, but that was not her love language. Her language is acts of service.

 

So the time and energy I was spending in making her toes curl and her eyes roll up in her head wasn't quite cutting it.

 

It was fine when we were childfree and we were both working on our careers, but once we had a home and family, she didn't think I was performing enough service to our home and kids or supporting her enough and the rift started to form

 

I thought I was doing great by her since I could breathe through my ears and rock her cervix with my tongue but that wasn't the case anymore.

 

We both had to adjust how we gave and received love. MC helped us with that.

 

So now I am having to recalibrate again do to her declining libido and mojo.

 

But what I need to know is is it mostly just menopause and shifting hormones or is there more to it.

 

Is it that I have put on weight and gotten a few more wrinkles and have lost some muscle mass?

 

Is it that I have slacked on my acts of service and its a relationship issue?

 

 

Is there another man?

 

 

Is it that our marriage has run it's course and she is just simply not into me?

 

Is it a combination of a few or of all?

 

That's what I need to determine. So my plan is to get back into fighting shape (or as best that I can at my age) bump up my service to her, our home and family, rule out another man, or see if she simply has no more desire for me.

 

Once I have more info, I can make a better plan on how to deal with it or throw in the towel if it's all over.

[autumnnight]

.....the important point on want to make on the love language issue is that since I am so strongly 'Physical Touch' in my love language, I feel way deep down that other people are too.

 

That means way deep down I feel that if I am affectionate and I am sexually into her and give her good lovins and give her lots of orgasms and passion throughout the week, she should be good to go too.

 

But that's not the case. We had good chemistry and she dug all the orgasms and hot sex over the years, but that was not her love language. Her language is acts of service.

 

So the time and energy I was spending in making her toes curl and her eyes roll up in her head wasn't quite cutting it.

 

It was fine when we were childfree and we were both working on our careers, but once we had a home and family, she didn't think I was performing enough service to our home and kids or supporting her enough and the rift started to form

 

I thought I was doing great by her since I could breathe through my ears and rock her cervix with my tongue but that wasn't the case anymore.

 

We both had to adjust how we gave and received love. MC helped us with that.

 

So now I am having to recalibrate again do to her declining libido and mojo.

 

But what I need to know is is it mostly just menopause and shifting hormones or is there more to it.

 

Is it that I have put on weight and gotten a few more wrinkles and have lost some muscle mass?

 

Is it that I have slacked on my acts of service and its a relationship issue?

 

 

Is there another man?

 

 

Is it that our marriage has run it's course and she is just simply not into me?

 

Is it a combination of a few or of all?

 

That's what I need to determine. So my plan is to get back into fighting shape (or as best that I can at my age) bump up my service to her, our home and family, rule out another man, or see if she simply has no more desire for me.

 

Once I have more info, I can make a better plan on how to deal with it or throw in the towel if it's all over.

 

You are a very wise man to understand these things. Most of us just keep pounding at the love language we THINK the other person should have.

[truncated]

YES!!! You are right on the money in everything you said.

 

I have come to realize and accept that I give and receive love and affirmation and acceptance through my sexuality.

 

I simply cannot live and be fulfilled with a woman who does not desire, want me or accept me sexually. I was probably one of the guys that people love to hate on in my younger days when I wouldn't date someone once it was apparent we weren't sexually compatible regardless of what other assets they offered.

 

I really don't care if a woman can cook or clean. As long as she is not neglectful or abusive, I don't really care how great of a mother she is. As long as she isn't a criminal or a psycho or just plain nasty, I don't care about her status in the community or how active she is in the school or community. And frankly, as long as a woman isn't deformed/disfigured, fat or unhygenic, I'm not that hung up on beauty (although my wife was a state-level beauty pageant contestant, so it certainly doesn't hurt LOL)

 

What matters to me most, assuming a woman is a good, decent person with no major hang ups or deal breakers to begin with, is a compatible sexual chemistry.

 

My wife and used to have that for many years. I accept that as we age, our lisp and mojo decline. I am not the man I was 10 years ago either so I get that.

 

But what is at issue here is how fast that has dropped off the charts and the degree.

 

What has shaken me is since I primarily give and receive love and acceptance through physical affection and sexual chemistry, it has seriously shaken my confidence and security that she loves or accepts me AT ALL.

 

Her love language is acts of service, so she feels she is showing me love by making the house spotless, being the world's greatest mother to my children (which she is) and by being and educated, respectful professional that brings in an about 50 % of our households income.

 

To her, she's busting her arse to be a great wife and mother. But to me, if there's no physical connection and chemistry, it's all suspect.

 

I could live in a box under a bridge and live on ramen noodles and what left over burgers we could find in McDonald's dumpster, but if I had a hot, horny chick that had the big time hots for me, I'd be good with it.

 

Now I want to make an important point but I will post it is a separate post so it doesn't get lost in the blah blah blah....

 

 

What is her "love language" that she uses to measure how much you love her?

[oldshirt]

And your food analogy is spot on as well. When touch/affection/sexuality are what nourishes your relationship, when it's not there it's just like starving. You feel yourself and the relationship getting weaker and more withered every day.

 

But it's more than that. This is what others don't get. When you are well nourished and you have a steady and predictable supply of food you don't really think about it that much and you can focus on other things and you tend to only eat when you start to get a little hungry. It's not that big of a deal.

 

But once your supply dwindles and becomes scarce and unpredictable, it becomes your focus.

 

Once you reach a point extreme hunger, all you do is seek nourishment, nothing else matters. All you do is try to find food.

 

Where it gets bad is once you are chronically malnourished. Once you reach that stage everything is judged in the context of are you going to be able to eat again or not? Even if you get your belly full with one meal, you are already looking ahead and wondering if you are going to get another.

 

In many ways it probably is like a heroine addict enjoying the high but already looking for their next hit.

[oldshirt]

What is her "love language" that she uses to measure how much you love her?

 

Acts of service.

[truncated]

Acts of service.

 

are you meeting her needs?

 

If acts of service is how she measures love, then you losing weight, etc., while definitely being a good thing, may be something she sees as you doing something to show love to her.

 

if menopause has reduced her libido and she doesn't want sex, she's not rejecting you per se, she's rejecting the act...but consider this. If , as you say, acts of service is how she shows someone she loves them, then to her, being with you in a sexual way, even if she's not into it, can be a very loving act.It doesn't sound as if she's doing the 'hurry up and get it over with so I can go back to what i was doing" ( which is horrid_) , but rather she's doing the " I'm not into this, but you are, so because I love you I will give myself to you so you can find happiness and pleasure" She's doing it because she loves you enough to try.

 

It also doesn't sound like she's consciously willing herself to have a low libido, it's just the phase of her life that she is in right now.

 

if you turn it around, there may be times you do things to show her you love her that you really aren't in to, but you do them because they are expressions of love to her.

 

You say that you would be happy living under a bridge and eating ramen noodles so long as you were having lots of sex, but really think about that. If you and your wife can address this issue as a team, and both come to an understanding of how the other feels, then you may be able to have the best of both worlds. Sure, it may never be the way it was when you were younger, but it can still be great.

 

You will have a wife who does so much for you, and while she may never be into sex the way you are, she is willing to try and to be there for you when you are in the mood. Like I said above, that may well be her way of showing you love.

 

Mind you, each person and couple is different, so I could be way off. I apologize if I am.

[oldshirt]

are you meeting her needs?

 

If acts of service is how she measures love, then you losing weight, etc., while definitely being a good thing, may be something she sees as you doing something to show love to her.

 

if menopause has reduced her libido and she doesn't want sex, she's not rejecting you per se, she's rejecting the act...but consider this. If , as you say, acts of service is how she shows someone she loves them, then to her, being with you in a sexual way, even if she's not into it, can be a very loving act.It doesn't sound as if she's doing the 'hurry up and get it over with so I can go back to what i was doing" ( which is horrid_) , but rather she's doing the " I'm not into this, but you are, so because I love you I will give myself to you so you can find happiness and pleasure" She's doing it because she loves you enough to try.

 

It also doesn't sound like she's consciously willing herself to have a low libido, it's just the phase of her life that she is in right now.

 

if you turn it around, there may be times you do things to show her you love her that you really aren't in to, but you do them because they are expressions of love to her.

 

You say that you would be happy living under a bridge and eating ramen noodles so long as you were having lots of sex, but really think about that. If you and your wife can address this issue as a team, and both come to an understanding of how the other feels, then you may be able to have the best of both worlds. Sure, it may never be the way it was when you were younger, but it can still be great.

 

You will have a wife who does so much for you, and while she may never be into sex the way you are, she is willing to try and to be there for you when you are in the mood. Like I said above, that may well be her way of showing you love.

 

Mind you, each person and couple is different, so I could be way off. I apologize if I am.

 

 

No I think you are right on the money on a number of things. I just need to determine where things are at in reality and how to proceed from there.

[oldshirt]

You said before that she stated she wished she never married you...

 

Does that mean you don't meet her needs too? What acts of service does she expect?

 

 

 

In the big picture I'm unsure of your description of sex and intimacy. They are separate but related.

If she isn't capable of using words of encouragement or of conversations involving emotions then intimacy may be unobtainable.

 

That's why I asked can you live with some sex but no intimacy?

 

She said that in an outburst of anger during a particularly bad fight during a real bad time in our marriage several years ago. We started MC within days of that fight and much of our issues were addressed.

 

It was during MC that we learned about the love languages and started to address those needs more mindfully.

 

We did make some big turnaround after MC and she has since recanted those statements.

 

As far as emotional expression, she never has been and never will be a girly girl quarterly expresses deep emotional things. She can do enough to get by at times. I have historically accepted that because the sexuality was compatible.

 

I have dated mushy, sappy emotional girls in my younger days and found it uncomfortable and out of my realm.

 

Have there been times I wished she was more emotional and expressive? Sure, but it's not like she is an Ice Queen and I don't want to give the impression that she is.

[TexasMan68]

So here is my plan for moving forward. As I stated above, I know some will disagree with some of it but some of this is based off of what I know to be issues and have demonstrated positive results during similar episodes. Past success is no guarantee of future success but it's a good place to start vs starting where there was known failure in the past.

 

 

Here is what I am planning to implement ASAP -

 

 

- Be a more involved husband and father in the home. I admit to getting a little lazy and a little too indulged in my little hobbies and past times. This includes time here on LS. I'll still check in, but it will be on my time, not family time. My indulgence in my pasttimes has always been her biggest complaint. I am going to try to take away as many complaints as possible.

 

 

- Start hitting the gym more regularly and more effectively. I have slacked off her too and have put on the weight to prove it. I'm still not fat, but the old jeans don't fit so well any more. As of tonight, I am 5'11" and 184.2Lbs and my belt hooks on the 5th notch from the end. I'll use that as my "before" measurements to track progress.

 

 

- I'm also going to update the wardrobe a bit and bump up the grooming and such. I bought a new box of Whitestrips today in fact in hopes of having the pearly whites a little whiter by the end of the month. I may do a little tanning too as I'm starting to glow in the dark. Nothing extreme just a little color so I don't look like a ghost.

 

 

- I'm going to bump up the snooping to see if there are any 3rd party involvements. I haven't seen any evidence of that yet, but I am going to take an honest look before I rule it out.

 

 

- I am going to work on being my happy, smiling self and work real hard on my outcome independence. No more whining or complaining or bargaining etc etc. I actually have not done any of this for the past year and a half or so but I am really going to commit to not doing it at all going forward.

 

 

- I am going to take sex out of the equation for now. In other words I am not going to hit on her, initiate or make any attempts to have sex with her. If she initiates or wants some lovins, I will love her up to the best of my ability. But if she doesn't initiate somehow, I won't either.

 

 

This may seem counter intuitive but it's actually for several reasons. one is I want to ensure that I am not pressuring her at all or making her feel that is all I want. Another is I want to show that I can relate to her in other ways. And also, I want to see how long before she notices or even wants any lovins. If it's 6 months down the road and she hasn't said a word or made one attempt, then I'll have my answer.

 

 

Actually at the end of the month is our 20th anniversary. If our anniversary comes and goes and doesn't say a word or lift a finger, that will be a pretty big flag.

 

 

 

 

-I am going to put a little more time and energy into a side gig I've recently started doing. It's not anything major but if I can get it up and running, it will pull in a few more dollars a month. It's mostly a hobby that I will be happy if it will pay for it's self. It will never be a true money maker.

 

 

- Get a little more educated about menopause and learn more about treatment options and ways to adapt and deal with it better in the bedroom.

 

 

- and finally, while I won't bitch or whine, I will hold her accountable if she does something disrespectful, bitchy or inappropriate. I won't bitch or whine, but if she does something that is clearly disrespectful or inappropriate or discourteous, I will address it.

 

 

 

 

So that's it, that is my plan for moving forward. I will be open for suggestions, feedback, criticisms and I'll definitely need some encourage and a kick in the pants now and then as I have been slacking lately and getting lazier in recent months. When I start slacking, I can refer back to this post and remind myself of what I need to be working on.

 

 

Just one question. What does her list look like or are you the only one doing the changing to save the marriage?

[SummerDreams]

 

Is it that I have put on weight and gotten a few more wrinkles and have lost some muscle mass?

 

Is it that I have slacked on my acts of service and its a relationship issue?

 

 

Is there another man?

 

 

Is it that our marriage has run it's course and she is just simply not into me?

 

Is it a combination of a few or of all?

 

 

Honestly the way I see it if it was something practical like having gained weight or having some wrinkles wouldn't she have said something? I mean, if someone is horny I really don't think they will stop at "my spouse has some belly" or "her ass has gotten bigger", especially after your sexual past. Wouldn't she have said "I think you should start eating healthier, I see your belly getting bigger" or something like that?

 

In my opinion this woman has just decided she is done with enjoying sex, or it may be a combination of this AND menopause symptoms. As I have said in your other thread, sometimes ignoring and avoiding a problem is easier than facing it and dealing with it. For her it's easier to accuse you of being a sex addict and make herself the victim ("I have these menopause symptoms and he doesn't understand me, what a pig, he just wants sex") rather than aknowledging her wrong approach to the issue and trying to solve it. I bet deep down she knows she is at fault here in a degree but it's easier to just let it slide like this rather than try to solve it. You know what I mean?

[SummerDreams]

Just one question. What does her list look like or are you the only one doing the changing to save the marriage?

 

I'm not sure she is aware that her marriage is in jeopardy and this is what I don't like with this plan.

[oldshirt]

Dig deeper...

 

 

You seem as if you're answering the questions but you just don't quite answer.

 

It's like you don't really want to hit what's being asked...

 

Sorry, it must be going over my head then. What is it exactly that you are asking?

[oldshirt]

Just one question. What does her list look like or are you the only one doing the changing to save the marriage?

 

She has no list. It is all business as usual for her.

 

And I am not really trying to "save the marriage."

 

We are not in crisis at present.

[oldshirt]

I'm not sure she is aware that her marriage is in jeopardy and this is what I don't like with this plan.

 

Our marriage is not in jeopardy at this time.

 

There are no threats or plans of divorce.

 

Now if I find out there is another man, or if in 6 months I look like a hot hunk and I am the perfect husband and father and friend and I have expressed my desire for a more intimate relationship and she completely stiff arms me and wants nothing to do with that, it may be a different story.

 

But for now, there is no jeopardy.

[xxoo]

YES!!! You are right on the money in everything you said.

 

I have come to realize and accept that I give and receive love and affirmation and acceptance through my sexuality.

 

I simply cannot live and be fulfilled with a woman who does not desire, want me or accept me sexually. I was probably one of the guys that people love to hate on in my younger days when I wouldn't date someone once it was apparent we weren't sexually compatible regardless of what other assets they offered.

 

I really don't care if a woman can cook or clean. As long as she is not neglectful or abusive, I don't really care how great of a mother she is. As long as she isn't a criminal or a psycho or just plain nasty, I don't care about her status in the community or how active she is in the school or community. And frankly, as long as a woman isn't deformed/disfigured, fat or unhygenic, I'm not that hung up on beauty (although my wife was a state-level beauty pageant contestant, so it certainly doesn't hurt LOL)

 

What matters to me most, assuming a woman is a good, decent person with no major hang ups or deal breakers to begin with, is a compatible sexual chemistry.

 

My wife and used to have that for many years. I accept that as we age, our lisp and mojo decline. I am not the man I was 10 years ago either so I get that.

 

But what is at issue here is how fast that has dropped off the charts and the degree.

 

What has shaken me is since I primarily give and receive love and acceptance through physical affection and sexual chemistry, it has seriously shaken my confidence and security that she loves or accepts me AT ALL.

 

Her love language is acts of service, so she feels she is showing me love by making the house spotless, being the world's greatest mother to my children (which she is) and by being and educated, respectful professional that brings in an about 50 % of our households income.

 

To her, she's busting her arse to be a great wife and mother. But to me, if there's no physical connection and chemistry, it's all suspect.

 

I could live in a box under a bridge and live on ramen noodles and what left over burgers we could find in McDonald's dumpster, but if I had a hot, horny chick that had the big time hots for me, I'd be good with it.

 

Now I want to make an important point but I will post it is a separate post so it doesn't get lost in the blah blah blah....

 

You had it for years, so it isn't like your wife is just not the sexual type at core. She was. Now she's menopausal. Things change.

 

This post sounds like she's working very hard to be enough for you now that her sex drive has been hit by menopause, and it isn't enough for you. Her efforts aren't enough for you. Who she is now isn't what you want. I suspect that her intact family is important to her, as is being a good wife, thus she will participate in sex. If you stop initiating altogether, she may conclude that you've lost interest (heck, you've said that it could happen at your age!). That would be an unfair "test" if there was no communication about the purpose of you not initiating. She may slowly conclude everyone is happy without, if that's the way you're acting.

[oldshirt]

You had it for years, so it isn't like your wife is just not the sexual type at core. She was. Now she's menopausal. Things change.

 

This post sounds like she's working very hard to be enough for you now that her sex drive has been hit by menopause, and it isn't enough for you. Her efforts aren't enough for you. Who she is now isn't what you want. I suspect that her intact family is important to her, as is being a good wife, thus she will participate in sex. If you stop initiating altogether, she may conclude that you've lost interest (heck, you've said that it could happen at your age!). That would be an unfair "test" if there was no communication about the purpose of you not initiating. She may slowly conclude everyone is happy without, if that's the way you're acting.

 

I am sure that is a risk.

 

But it is also an exercise for me as well to see if I can shift some of my sexual energies into other aspects of our relationship, home and family.

 

In other words it's kind of a test for myself as well to see if I can live and be happy and healthy with a decreasing amount of sexuality.

 

It's not really fair for me to sit here and spout off on how I can't live without it if I haven't actually tried to.

 

I believe I can sacrifice some quantity if the quality can be improved. I have to test myself on that theory.

[oldshirt]

......and also keep in mind that she does not typically reject my earnest initiations. If I make a definitive initiation she almost always complies.

 

I am not saying that I will never make another initiation again as long as I live. I am just making a mindful effort to dial the sexuality back, focus more on other things and follow her lead and her initiative for awhile to see what happens with both her and myself.

 

I reserve the right to initiate if I feel the need to do so.

 

In fact, our 20th anniversary is coming up in a couple weeks and I am planning a nice little daytime getaway while the kids are in school. I shall not be sitting on my hands hoping she makes a move that day ;-) :-D

[Realist3]

I really don't care if a woman can cook or clean. As long as she is not neglectful or abusive, I don't really care how great of a mother she is. As long as she isn't a criminal or a psycho or just plain nasty, I don't care about her status in the community or how active she is in the school or community. And frankly, as long as a woman isn't deformed/disfigured, fat or unhygenic, I'm not that hung up on beauty (although my wife was a state-level beauty pageant contestant, so it certainly doesn't hurt LOL)

 

What matters to me most, assuming a woman is a good, decent person with no major hang ups or deal breakers to begin with, is a compatible sexual chemistry.

 

It really sounds like all you desire is a vessel to relieve what sounds more like sex addiction, than a love language.

 

God forbid you were in an accident and became paralyzed and could no longer have sex, what would you do? Would you expect your wife to leave you because you could no longer have sex?

 

Do you actually love your wife?

[autumnnight]

Our marriage is not in jeopardy at this time.

 

There are no threats or plans of divorce.

 

Now if I find out there is another man, or if in 6 months I look like a hot hunk and I am the perfect husband and father and friend and I have expressed my desire for a more intimate relationship and she completely stiff arms me and wants nothing to do with that, it may be a different story.

 

But for now, there is no jeopardy.

 

I think that people are not quite understanding your position or strategy because things on forums tend to be so all or nothing.

 

Like the remark about wishing she had never married you. When people are very angry, they sometimes say things just to hurt. This was said several years ago during a bad time in the heat of an argument. It is not an accurate measure.

 

You are improving yourself and your actions as a husband while observing and taking the marital temperature. You are not halfway out the door with a separation agreement hidden under the mattress.

 

It isn't all or nothing. It isn't necessarily a giant imminent crisis. It is a careful evaluation of a possible troubling pattern.

 

I think because forums tend to be about giant pendulum swing and black and white thinking, your measured approach can be confusing?

 

But I get it. You are exploring and making an effort and evaluating all at the same time, and you are withholding judgment until you have put forth more effort and have more data.

[oldshirt]

It really sounds like all you desire is a vessel to relieve what sounds more like sex addiction, than a love language.

 

God forbid you were in an accident and became paralyzed and could no longer have sex, what would you do? Would you expect your wife to leave you because you could no longer have sex?

 

Do you actually love your wife?

 

In the post that you were referencing I was talking in general conceptual terms and not in a literal sense of my relationship with my wife specifically.

 

I love and honor and respect her and I treat her very well.

 

 

If I were in an accident today and were unable to perform sexually, I do not think she would leave me for the lack of sexual performance as that is clearly not a priority of hers anymore.

 

But she would leave me if I was unable to work and provide support for our family and unable to do things around the house and for the kids etc.

 

If I had an accident 10 years ago in her prime, she would've found someone else to replace my role in the bedroom even if she didn't technically divorce me per se.

[oldshirt]

I think that people are not quite understanding your position or strategy because things on forums tend to be so all or nothing.

 

Like the remark about wishing she had never married you. When people are very angry, they sometimes say things just to hurt. This was said several years ago during a bad time in the heat of an argument. It is not an accurate measure.

 

You are improving yourself and your actions as a husband while observing and taking the marital temperature. You are not halfway out the door with a separation agreement hidden under the mattress.

 

It isn't all or nothing. It isn't necessarily a giant imminent crisis. It is a careful evaluation of a possible troubling pattern.

 

I think because forums tend to be about giant pendulum swing and black and white thinking, your measured approach can be confusing?

 

But I get it. You are exploring and making an effort and evaluating all at the same time, and you are withholding judgment until you have put forth more effort and have more data.

 

 

You said it better than I have been able to.

 

Thank you.

[turnera]

Our chronic issue over the last few years and what I had to take accountability for in counseling is that she doesn't feel supported and appreciated by me and thinks I am just in it for sex. She doesn't feel appreciated and loved and supported nonsexually.

Your plan seems fair except for one thing. I assume you've done enough reading to understand that women have to be emotionally involved, typically, to WANT to have sex, to lust after you. In other words, they need their 'emotional world' in their head when they think of their relationship with you to be...well, great. Not a ton of resentments, emotional needs met. Not be perfect, but just knowing that you acknowledge the issues and ARE working on them. So she's telling you WHY she resents you (your Love Busters) and WHAT Emotional Needs she has that you aren't meeting.

 

NO woman is going to suddenly just wake up one morning and say 'you know what? who cares if he's hurting me and ignoring my issues with him? I want to jump his bones anyway!' Unless you are willing to honestly address for the above problem and change YOUR hand in it, you never will see any improvement; might as well just divorce now.

 

And if I had a dollar for every wife who's said 'you just want me for sex,' I'd be a millionaire. Have you honestly evaluated how you treat her in regards to sexual issues? Do you/did you grab at her? Push yourself on her? Push for sex and then just forget about something you promised to do afterward that mattered to her? Do you always make sure she gets off first? Do you help with chores so that she doesn't still have a ton of things to do at night and can relax? Do you listen to her talk about stuff or ask her about her feelings, wants, needs, aspirations, her day? Do you engage with her friends and her family? Do you ask her advice on things? Do you FOLLOW her advice on things? If having/getting sex comes up all the time and all the other stuff is just given lip service, women figure out pretty quick that they really ARE just wanted for the sex.

 

I'm not saying you're doing these things, I'm just asking you to be honest with yourself. If you WANT her to WANT you, pay attention to what makes HER happy.

 

I imagine this is a big part of it. I can totally see that her being uncomfortable with affectionate physical touch because she's afraid I'll try to pursue more.

And this is the EXACT response women have when their man is continuously pushing for sex. I sit on the opposite side of the couch because any time we're in touching distance, and we do touch, even if it's just legs, I KNOW he's going to push for sex that night. And I don't let him hug me because I know he'll try to cop a feel, squeeze something. Even after I've told him a hundred times it makes me feel like a hooker or something. So I protect myself from him. Sad, huh? All because he won't listen and respect my feelings. Same thing your wife is doing. Edited October 14, 2015 by turnera

[turnera]

I'm not a doctor (and that will be readily apparent here shortly) but my understanding is that with menopause, hormone changes, and age in general, the vagina loses "something." It loses elasticity, or tissue, or something and cannot handle the friction that it once did. And no amount of lube seems to be sufficient to make sex pleasurable.

I've been in menopause for 11 years and, while that part is true -it's more painful, as I suggested, that's not the important part of sex for many women. My H ALWAYS makes sure I get taken care of first. Always. For 35 years. And that doesn't require penetration at all. Once you've taken care of her, she'll be satisfied, feeling good, and the PIV won't be that much of an issue, unless it's truly incredibly painful (and that doesn't sound like your wife's problem).

[BlueIris]

Keep working on your “acts of service” and how to be a partner who turns her on, if you’re dissatisfied that she doesn’t seem turned on by you.

 

In your opening post, you said this:

“Be a more involved husband and father in the home. I admit to getting … lazy and … indulged in my little hobbies and past times. This includes time here on LS. I'll still check in, but it will be on my time, not family time.”

and then this:

“My indulgence in my pasttimes has always been her biggest complaint. I am going to try to take away as many complaints as possible.”

 

Just some food for thought. Being an equal and engaged co-parent and day-to-day teammate in raising children and caring for a home are not things you are doing for her. They are things that parents and spouses do naturally. So they aren’t “acts of service.” If you view them as acts of service for her rather than doing what you believe a parent and are already expected to do for children, family and home, you frame this as more like parent-child or supervisor-assistant (or sometime volunteer), a power struggle of individuals.

 

This is a speech that a famous coach gave about The Team:

 

"We want the Big Ten championship and we're gonna win it as a Team. They can throw out all those great backs, and great quarterbacks, and great defensive players, throughout the country and in this conference, but there's gonna be one Team that's gonna play solely as a Team. No man is more important than The Team. No coach is more important than The Team. The Team, The Team, The Team, and if we think that way, all of us, everything that you do, you take into consideration what effect does it have on my Team? Because you can go into professional football, you can go anywhere you want to play after you leave here. You will never play for a Team again. You'll play for a contract. You'll play for this. You'll play for that. You'll play for everything except the team, and think what a great thing it is to be a part of something that is, The Team. We're gonna win it. We're gonna win the championship again because we're gonna play as team, better than anybody else in this conference, we're gonna play together as a team. We're gonna believe in each other, we're not gonna criticize each other, we're not gonna talk about each other, we're gonna encourage each other. And when we play as a team, when the old season is over, you and I know, it's gonna be Michigan again, Michigan."

(It isn't really about U of Michigan in this context- lol)