Hoping to stop the downhill plunge.... Update.

[NewLeaf512]

I knew this would be a point of controversy. I have debated this internally myself but for our/my situation I think it is best, at least for this point in time.

 

 

Let me make a couple distinctions. We are not in a sexless marriage and she rarely rejects my sexually. In fact I really couldn't even tell you the last time she said no. I could probably get off the computer right now and sneak her down to the guest room for a quicky while the kids are outside. The issue isn't that she wouldn't do it, the issue is she would just be laying there looking at the clock and telling me to hurry up/be quiet/stop doing that etc etc.

 

 

My issue isn't really the frequency of sex or that she is rejecting me. It is the quality of sex and her detachment during it.

 

 

Our chronic issue over the last few years and what I had to take accountability for in counseling is that she doesn't feel supported and appreciated by me and thinks I am just in it for sex. She doesn't feel appreciated and loved and supported nonsexually.

 

 

This is a different slant than the usual scenario of the guys that haven't had sex in the last year and who's wives have gotten fat and lazy and entitled because the guys are waiting on them hand and foot.

 

 

This is why there are a number of guys on these two threads telling me to "grow some balls and show the bitch who's boss and make her respect you blah blah blah. "

 

 

That is the standard advice for the beta boys who have been waiting on their wives hand and foot hoping they will throw them a bone now and then.

 

 

I believe that for the time being, need to take the opposite approach and take the pressure off of her to have sex and to reconnect on an interpersonal and nonsexual level before the sexual issues can be directly addressed.

 

 

Many men do need to get their wives to respect them and see them as a virile man that can leave them and find another woman. But that is not the universal issue and "grow some balls" is not the universal answer.

 

 

I believe I need to get her to actually like me and feel safe and comfortable around me before she can respect and have a true desire for me.

 

 

She already knows I want to have sex all the time. I have made that quite clear over the last 20 years. (the longest we've ever gone without is 3 weeks and that was after the kids were born)

 

 

And she knows that if the sexuality completely shuts down, she knows I will leave. I don't need to say these things because she already knows it.

 

 

My challenge her is not to get her to have sex. My challenge is to get her to like me enough and have enough trust and comfort with me to actually want to.

 

 

How this plays in with the menopause issue is if I bring it up to seek treatment for it, she will just think I'm doing it to get more poontang and she will shove back and resist. In order to address the menopause issue in good faith, she has to miss the intimacy and closeness and actually want to seek treatment of her own accord.

 

Just a note on menopause: I went into immediate menopause age 43 after a radical hysterectomy (ovaries out) I was easily aroused and felt sexual often prior.

 

I can't take hormone replacement due to my cancer. Literally it was like someone flicked a switch and my libido was turned off. I don't even have a partner but I didn't think about sex. I don't think waiting for her to miss it will work. She is low on hormones so that takes the need away. It would be like having your balls cut off.

 

Suggestion only.

[oldshirt]

I don't think waiting for her to miss it will work. She is low on hormones so that takes the need away.

 

.

 

I am not waiting for her to miss it and have her libido magically reappear. I know that is not going to happen.

 

 

The reason I have cut back on the sexual initiation is to take the pressure off of her so she doesn't think I am just a horndog who only cares about his next piece of tail.

 

 

At some point in the foreseeable future I am going to bring up the topic of her libido falling off the charts and seeing if there is anything that can be done to improve it.

 

 

But before I can do that I need to shore up the other elements of our relationship and have her understand that it is not just about me trying to get more sex.

[oldshirt]

So if she gives some sort of sex but doesn't share feelings and intimacy - is that good enough for you to stay?

 

It's not really about me staying or not staying. It's about having a healthy and happy marital relationship.

 

 

"giving some sort of sex" could mean anything from reluctantly agreeing to give a hand job while she watches The Voice on TV or talks to her sister on the phone once a month which would not cut it.

 

 

The bottom line is I want to have a full service relationship with someone that has some sexdrive and has an actual desire to be with me.

 

 

I can go down to the corner massage parlor and get 'some sort of sex' now and then for a whole lot less work and effort than what this is.

[TX-SC]

I applaud you in what you are doing. In fact, I have a very similar situation and I'm doing basically the same thing. You should also read the 5 Love Languages if you haven't already.

[HopeForTomorrow]

oldshirt, after reading so many of your posts, somehow I thought you and your wife were older. But you are just now celebrating your 20th so unless you married late, I'm guessing you are both in your 40's. You have a LOT of life yet and I think that your plan depends a lot on a woman who doesn't seem to have a physical or emotional need for sex.

 

What NewLeaf said is true - that when you have a hysterectomy and can't take hormone replacement therapy because of risk factors such as prior cancer, then it becomes really tough. Almost like a light switch. But, there are still ways to be intimate. I can't imagine not wanting to be intimate with the person you love, even if the sex drive isn't as it was in the past.

 

My question is - do you think it is TOTALLY menopause related, or does any of her reluctance for sex relate to the relationship? I'm sorry if that is a bad question - I just don't know the answer. I think you are giving her huge opportunities that from my perspective she doesn't necessarily deserve. I'm glad you are keeping that second option in there, the possibility to find the love (emotional and physical) that you need and deserve as part of a relationship. Ongoing.

 

I just turned 51 years old and I have not even started to experience menopause yet. My libido is as high as it's ever been (which sucks since I'm in a LDR with the only guy I ever want to be with). I could still have another baby, theoretically. By my family history I will probably be close to 60 years old before menopause, and I am a healthcare professional so you can bet that I am going to make sure the physical aspect of my relationship with my guy will be as good as ever.

 

The point is that there are lots of solutions and if your wife really wants to be with you, then she needs to show it. It's on HER to deal with her menopause, not to use it as an excuse for ending intimacy with you. There are many ways/solutions/compromises that can happen and she needs to seek those out FOR YOU. You don't need to push her - that's HER job.

 

If she doesn't, you won't have any problems finding what you seek. I think you have a good plan.

[BetrayedH]

Hello again, I wanted to give a little update as it's been a week since I put my plan into effect.

 

 

I've had a couple snags and bumps in the road as well as making a little progress (or so I hope)

 

 

I have been sick so really haven't accomplished much in the gym although I have been eating better and I am down a couple pounds from last week.

 

 

I have gotten into her Facebook, emails and phone and have not found anything fishy. I did place the VAR in the house a couple days last week when she was home and nothing suspicious turned up on that. I plan to use it some more this week coming up.

 

 

I haven't tried to initiate anything sexual but like I said I have been sick. However something interesting did happen yesterday that Im not quite sure how to interpret so I'll just spell it out and you folks can give me your thoughts.

 

 

About Friday she asked me if I'd feel good enough to kiss her over the weekend and I replied that I hope so since it had been awhile (we hadn't kissed or touched or anything for about 2 weeks)

 

 

Sat morning I got up early and she slept in. When she woke up I came in the bed room and was just hanging out chit chatting. She was naked in bed (she sleeps naked) and I was fully dressed. She reached out and took my hand and asked if I would kiss her. I said I'd be honored and we actually made out for several minutes. Frankly, it was the first time we really kissed and she didn't just give me quick grandma kisses in a long long time.

 

 

After a few minutes of making out we kind of stopped and I was still trying to hold myself back and not make any strong initiations. She really wasn't doing anything either or making any kind of overatures so I started to get up and was going to do some stuff around the house.

 

 

Before I left the room she told me to wait and to shut and lock the door and come back to bed and do her between the boobs. Yes you read that right, she wanted it between the boobs.

 

 

I'm going to be a bit graphic here so you get the picture and can help me interpret what this means.

 

 

anyway, I shut and locked the door. Got undressed, got back into bed and started feeling her up and making out again. After several minutes of this I started gently fingering her clit and after a few minutes she had an orgasm (or did a reasonable job of faking it)

 

 

Once she regained her composure she reiterated that she wanted it between the boobs so I lubed up her breasts with some lube and straddled her chest and she wrapped her boobs around my junk and we started doing that.

 

 

We were both having a good time and after awhile I could tell that I was going to orgasm shortly and I asked her if she wanted me to finish that way of if she wanted me inside her.

 

 

She said she wanted me to finish on her chest and we would have actual sex "later".

 

 

So I finished between her boobs and she got up and took a shower and then after her shower said something again about hooking up "later."

 

 

Of course "later" never came during the weekend.

 

 

So what was that all about???????

 

 

Was that an initiation on her part????? Was that just a diversion to drain my tank so that I didn't try anything else??

 

 

Was she kinda horny but just didn't want to go all the way?

 

 

In the past, she can and often does orgasm from doing it between the boobs. It is one of both of our favorite "alternative techniques and she has asked for that before, so it's not like it was anything shocking or anything, but I don't know exactly what to make of that.

 

 

It's certainly nothing that I initiated or anything.

 

 

Was this a good sign or a bad sign or was it any kind of 'sign' at all??

 

 

Any thoughts???????

 

It's all a good thing as far as I can see. She initiated something actually intimate (the kissing). She re-initiated when you created some distance. She got off. She got you off. She left an open invitation for later.

 

There are worse problems than these, my friend.

[veryhappy]

Menopausal Hormone Therapy and Cancer - National Cancer Institute

 

Why would the woman of your life risk cancer to keep you aroud? And while a risk on paper is a %, once cancer becomes one's life that is the full reality and the procents don't matter anymore.

 

You are only backing off for pr purposes. You want to negotiate tough later. It's your way or the highway. How many times does she need to put out monthly where it seems like she's into it? What your minimum to stay around?

 

I'm mid thirties, but the most valuable and highestpaid life lesson by now is to take people as they are. Fully wrap your mind around the fact that people are who they are, they only change under severe distress and the change is lasting if it is internalized.

 

Now for my credit here to speak to you to lead your wife alone period - I've spent my 20s sexless pleading and begging and having headaches. My guy has never, ever as in once hadsex because i pressed him and without wanting. After all the turmoil i she come to realize that it is a human right to have sex only when one wants. I have no solution for what to do to solve the issue, but i wish no unwanted sex on anybody, male or female.

 

Sorry for the typos, it's challenging to write on my phone.

Edited October 13, 2015 by cutedragon

[SummerDreams]

I have one very simple question that I'm not sure you have answered.

 

Why do you not consider as an option or even the only option to discuss with her about this issue? Are you maybe afraid of something? What do you think she will do? Disregard you? Fight with you? Laugh at you? What are you trying to avoid? I'm always a straight person who wants problems to be addressed directly. I guess you have already talked to her in the past about this matter but the plan you have gives me the feeling that you just want to "test" her in order that you have proof of her failing the test. You create a deadline in your mind, making the rules, like playing in a secret treasure hunting that she knows nothing about and then you will accuse her of failing. It gives me the feeling you in a way wish she fails so you have every right to call it quits and say "see? I tried, I did my best and you are at fault of our marriage coming to an end". Will this make you feel relief? Are you searching for a reason to leave this marriage? I may be totally wrong but this is the feeling I get from you at the moment.

[oldshirt]

I have one very simple question that I'm not sure you have answered.

 

Why do you not consider as an option or even the only option to discuss with her about this issue? Are you maybe afraid of something? What do you think she will do? Disregard you? Fight with you?

 

 

i did address this in my other thread but I may not have addressed in this thread.

 

Yes we have addressed this numerous times in the past and it was one of the topics when we were in counseling a few years ago.

 

When I bring it up, no matter how much I try to soften it and be gentle, she takes it as a personal attack and becomes very defensive and counter attacks. She sees it as just me being horny and wanting more sex and at times in the past she has felt unappreciated and that I just want her for sex.

 

I am currently trying to take that pressure off of her and work on shoring up the other areas of our relationship. I have also put on some weight recently and have lost some muscle tone and haven't updated the wardrobe and such for awhile so I am working on polishing myself up and becoming more attractive before I bring it up for discussion again.

 

 

 

but the plan you have gives me the feeling that you just want to "test" her in order that you have proof of her failing the test. It gives me the feeling you in a way wish she fails so you have every right to call it quits and say "see? I tried,

 

i hate to use the word "test" but one of things it may determine is if she still does have a desire for intimacy with me and is just a matter of differing sex drives or if she truly doesn't have any desire for me.

 

If in a couple weeks she is ready for some lovin, then it may indicate a discrepancy in our sex drives that can be worked with.

 

But if 6 months goes by and she hasn't said a word or lifted a finger, then that is a completely different reality.

 

 

Are you searching for a reason to leave this marriage? I may be totally wrong but this is the feeling I get from you at the moment.

 

No, I am definately NOT wanting out of the marriage at this point. But I do need to know if we have something work with, or if it is a lost cause.

 

If it is a lost cause, then I will have a decision to make in regards to do I just suck it up and live as roommates for the other benefits of the marriage or do I cut losses and move on.

 

At present I do not believe that I am capable of living as platonic roommates but I haven't been faced with that actual choice yet.

 

Either way I need to know the reality of the situation so I can make an informed decision.

 

I was quite encouraged this past weekend when she wanted to make out (something we haven't done in a long time) and wanted the the boobjob.

Edited October 13, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator
Formate quote and response

[autumnnight]

OS, I have discovered that for people who do not have touch as a top love language, sexual fulfillment and affection as top emotional needs, etc. (depending on which book you read), it is very hard for them to understand why you would have such angst over "just sex."

 

For those of us who ARE wired this way, sex is infinitely more than sex. It is affirmation, it is the top channel of intimacy, it is the primary way we feel loved, it is a barometer of the relationship, and it is part of our core.

 

When someone denies us of that, it is as if they are denying US. It is to the relationship what food is to life. And would you want to go through life waiting for FOOD until you were doubled over in hunger, begging for a meal, then eating it knowing you will not eat again until you beg again? Probably not. Sex is a constant and consistent part of the relationship, not just something that is "silly" at the beginning and not something that should be something your spouse agrees to just to get you off their back for a while.

 

There is nothing inherently wrong with NOT prioritizing sex. But for those of us who do, that kind of person just isn't going to be compatible.

 

Sex is one of the only marital needs that people actually expect people to ignore or suppress, and it isn't right, to put it bluntly. Just because it isn't important to Sally means there is something wrong with it BEING important.

[oldshirt]

OS, I have discovered that for people who do not have touch as a top love language, sexual fulfillment and affection as top emotional needs, etc. (depending on which book you read), it is very hard for them to understand why you would have such angst over "just sex."

 

For those of us who ARE wired this way, sex is infinitely more than sex. It is affirmation, it is the top channel of intimacy, it is the primary way we feel loved, it is a barometer of the relationship, and it is part of our core.

 

When someone denies us of that, it is as if they are denying US. It is to the relationship what food is to life. And would you want to go through life waiting for FOOD until you were doubled over in hunger, begging for a meal, then eating it knowing you will not eat again until you beg again? Probably not. Sex is a constant and consistent part of the relationship, not just something that is "silly" at the beginning and not something that should be something your spouse agrees to just to get you off their back for a while.

 

There is nothing inherently wrong with NOT prioritizing sex. But for those of us who do, that kind of person just isn't going to be compatible.

 

Sex is one of the only marital needs that people actually expect people to ignore or suppress, and it isn't right, to put it bluntly. Just because it isn't important to Sally means there is something wrong with it BEING important.

 

YES!!! You are right on the money in everything you said.

 

I have come to realize and accept that I give and receive love and affirmation and acceptance through my sexuality.

 

I simply cannot live and be fulfilled with a woman who does not desire, want me or accept me sexually. I was probably one of the guys that people love to hate on in my younger days when I wouldn't date someone once it was apparent we weren't sexually compatible regardless of what other assets they offered.

 

I really don't care if a woman can cook or clean. As long as she is not neglectful or abusive, I don't really care how great of a mother she is. As long as she isn't a criminal or a psycho or just plain nasty, I don't care about her status in the community or how active she is in the school or community. And frankly, as long as a woman isn't deformed/disfigured, fat or unhygenic, I'm not that hung up on beauty (although my wife was a state-level beauty pageant contestant, so it certainly doesn't hurt LOL)

 

What matters to me most, assuming a woman is a good, decent person with no major hang ups or deal breakers to begin with, is a compatible sexual chemistry.

 

My wife and used to have that for many years. I accept that as we age, our lisp and mojo decline. I am not the man I was 10 years ago either so I get that.

 

But what is at issue here is how fast that has dropped off the charts and the degree.

 

What has shaken me is since I primarily give and receive love and acceptance through physical affection and sexual chemistry, it has seriously shaken my confidence and security that she loves or accepts me AT ALL.

 

Her love language is acts of service, so she feels she is showing me love by making the house spotless, being the world's greatest mother to my children (which she is) and by being and educated, respectful professional that brings in an about 50 % of our households income.

 

To her, she's busting her arse to be a great wife and mother. But to me, if there's no physical connection and chemistry, it's all suspect.

 

I could live in a box under a bridge and live on ramen noodles and what left over burgers we could find in McDonald's dumpster, but if I had a hot, horny chick that had the big time hots for me, I'd be good with it.

 

Now I want to make an important point but I will post it is a separate post so it doesn't get lost in the blah blah blah....

[autumnnight]

It's funny. Your wife seems very much like my ex. Service and giving gifts were his primary two, and while I appreciated that he would wash dishes and was a pro at getting a birthday gift...I just wanted HIM to want ME.

 

You are not at the place where I was. I hope that you never get there. I wish I had been more directly vocal and more proactive sooner. In my case, I do not believe it would have changed anything in our marriage, BUT it would have saved a lot of years and some stupid choices.

[BlueIris]

Then you’ve found a way- perform acts of service. She did something to make you feel loved through sex and touch. This sounds like good progress.

[oldshirt]

.....the important point on want to make on the love language issue is that since I am so strongly 'Physical Touch' in my love language, I feel way deep down that other people are too.

 

That means way deep down I feel that if I am affectionate and I am sexually into her and give her good lovins and give her lots of orgasms and passion throughout the week, she should be good to go too.

 

But that's not the case. We had good chemistry and she dug all the orgasms and hot sex over the years, but that was not her love language. Her language is acts of service.

 

So the time and energy I was spending in making her toes curl and her eyes roll up in her head wasn't quite cutting it.

 

It was fine when we were childfree and we were both working on our careers, but once we had a home and family, she didn't think I was performing enough service to our home and kids or supporting her enough and the rift started to form

 

I thought I was doing great by her since I could breathe through my ears and rock her cervix with my tongue but that wasn't the case anymore.

 

We both had to adjust how we gave and received love. MC helped us with that.

 

So now I am having to recalibrate again do to her declining libido and mojo.

 

But what I need to know is is it mostly just menopause and shifting hormones or is there more to it.

 

Is it that I have put on weight and gotten a few more wrinkles and have lost some muscle mass?

 

Is it that I have slacked on my acts of service and its a relationship issue?

 

 

Is there another man?

 

 

Is it that our marriage has run it's course and she is just simply not into me?

 

Is it a combination of a few or of all?

 

That's what I need to determine. So my plan is to get back into fighting shape (or as best that I can at my age) bump up my service to her, our home and family, rule out another man, or see if she simply has no more desire for me.

 

Once I have more info, I can make a better plan on how to deal with it or throw in the towel if it's all over.

[autumnnight]

.....the important point on want to make on the love language issue is that since I am so strongly 'Physical Touch' in my love language, I feel way deep down that other people are too.

 

That means way deep down I feel that if I am affectionate and I am sexually into her and give her good lovins and give her lots of orgasms and passion throughout the week, she should be good to go too.

 

But that's not the case. We had good chemistry and she dug all the orgasms and hot sex over the years, but that was not her love language. Her language is acts of service.

 

So the time and energy I was spending in making her toes curl and her eyes roll up in her head wasn't quite cutting it.

 

It was fine when we were childfree and we were both working on our careers, but once we had a home and family, she didn't think I was performing enough service to our home and kids or supporting her enough and the rift started to form

 

I thought I was doing great by her since I could breathe through my ears and rock her cervix with my tongue but that wasn't the case anymore.

 

We both had to adjust how we gave and received love. MC helped us with that.

 

So now I am having to recalibrate again do to her declining libido and mojo.

 

But what I need to know is is it mostly just menopause and shifting hormones or is there more to it.

 

Is it that I have put on weight and gotten a few more wrinkles and have lost some muscle mass?

 

Is it that I have slacked on my acts of service and its a relationship issue?

 

 

Is there another man?

 

 

Is it that our marriage has run it's course and she is just simply not into me?

 

Is it a combination of a few or of all?

 

That's what I need to determine. So my plan is to get back into fighting shape (or as best that I can at my age) bump up my service to her, our home and family, rule out another man, or see if she simply has no more desire for me.

 

Once I have more info, I can make a better plan on how to deal with it or throw in the towel if it's all over.

 

You are a very wise man to understand these things. Most of us just keep pounding at the love language we THINK the other person should have.

[truncated]

YES!!! You are right on the money in everything you said.

 

I have come to realize and accept that I give and receive love and affirmation and acceptance through my sexuality.

 

I simply cannot live and be fulfilled with a woman who does not desire, want me or accept me sexually. I was probably one of the guys that people love to hate on in my younger days when I wouldn't date someone once it was apparent we weren't sexually compatible regardless of what other assets they offered.

 

I really don't care if a woman can cook or clean. As long as she is not neglectful or abusive, I don't really care how great of a mother she is. As long as she isn't a criminal or a psycho or just plain nasty, I don't care about her status in the community or how active she is in the school or community. And frankly, as long as a woman isn't deformed/disfigured, fat or unhygenic, I'm not that hung up on beauty (although my wife was a state-level beauty pageant contestant, so it certainly doesn't hurt LOL)

 

What matters to me most, assuming a woman is a good, decent person with no major hang ups or deal breakers to begin with, is a compatible sexual chemistry.

 

My wife and used to have that for many years. I accept that as we age, our lisp and mojo decline. I am not the man I was 10 years ago either so I get that.

 

But what is at issue here is how fast that has dropped off the charts and the degree.

 

What has shaken me is since I primarily give and receive love and acceptance through physical affection and sexual chemistry, it has seriously shaken my confidence and security that she loves or accepts me AT ALL.

 

Her love language is acts of service, so she feels she is showing me love by making the house spotless, being the world's greatest mother to my children (which she is) and by being and educated, respectful professional that brings in an about 50 % of our households income.

 

To her, she's busting her arse to be a great wife and mother. But to me, if there's no physical connection and chemistry, it's all suspect.

 

I could live in a box under a bridge and live on ramen noodles and what left over burgers we could find in McDonald's dumpster, but if I had a hot, horny chick that had the big time hots for me, I'd be good with it.

 

Now I want to make an important point but I will post it is a separate post so it doesn't get lost in the blah blah blah....

 

 

What is her "love language" that she uses to measure how much you love her?

[oldshirt]

And your food analogy is spot on as well. When touch/affection/sexuality are what nourishes your relationship, when it's not there it's just like starving. You feel yourself and the relationship getting weaker and more withered every day.

 

But it's more than that. This is what others don't get. When you are well nourished and you have a steady and predictable supply of food you don't really think about it that much and you can focus on other things and you tend to only eat when you start to get a little hungry. It's not that big of a deal.

 

But once your supply dwindles and becomes scarce and unpredictable, it becomes your focus.

 

Once you reach a point extreme hunger, all you do is seek nourishment, nothing else matters. All you do is try to find food.

 

Where it gets bad is once you are chronically malnourished. Once you reach that stage everything is judged in the context of are you going to be able to eat again or not? Even if you get your belly full with one meal, you are already looking ahead and wondering if you are going to get another.

 

In many ways it probably is like a heroine addict enjoying the high but already looking for their next hit.

[oldshirt]

What is her "love language" that she uses to measure how much you love her?

 

Acts of service.

[truncated]

Acts of service.

 

are you meeting her needs?

 

If acts of service is how she measures love, then you losing weight, etc., while definitely being a good thing, may be something she sees as you doing something to show love to her.

 

if menopause has reduced her libido and she doesn't want sex, she's not rejecting you per se, she's rejecting the act...but consider this. If , as you say, acts of service is how she shows someone she loves them, then to her, being with you in a sexual way, even if she's not into it, can be a very loving act.It doesn't sound as if she's doing the 'hurry up and get it over with so I can go back to what i was doing" ( which is horrid_) , but rather she's doing the " I'm not into this, but you are, so because I love you I will give myself to you so you can find happiness and pleasure" She's doing it because she loves you enough to try.

 

It also doesn't sound like she's consciously willing herself to have a low libido, it's just the phase of her life that she is in right now.

 

if you turn it around, there may be times you do things to show her you love her that you really aren't in to, but you do them because they are expressions of love to her.

 

You say that you would be happy living under a bridge and eating ramen noodles so long as you were having lots of sex, but really think about that. If you and your wife can address this issue as a team, and both come to an understanding of how the other feels, then you may be able to have the best of both worlds. Sure, it may never be the way it was when you were younger, but it can still be great.

 

You will have a wife who does so much for you, and while she may never be into sex the way you are, she is willing to try and to be there for you when you are in the mood. Like I said above, that may well be her way of showing you love.

 

Mind you, each person and couple is different, so I could be way off. I apologize if I am.

[oldshirt]

are you meeting her needs?

 

If acts of service is how she measures love, then you losing weight, etc., while definitely being a good thing, may be something she sees as you doing something to show love to her.

 

if menopause has reduced her libido and she doesn't want sex, she's not rejecting you per se, she's rejecting the act...but consider this. If , as you say, acts of service is how she shows someone she loves them, then to her, being with you in a sexual way, even if she's not into it, can be a very loving act.It doesn't sound as if she's doing the 'hurry up and get it over with so I can go back to what i was doing" ( which is horrid_) , but rather she's doing the " I'm not into this, but you are, so because I love you I will give myself to you so you can find happiness and pleasure" She's doing it because she loves you enough to try.

 

It also doesn't sound like she's consciously willing herself to have a low libido, it's just the phase of her life that she is in right now.

 

if you turn it around, there may be times you do things to show her you love her that you really aren't in to, but you do them because they are expressions of love to her.

 

You say that you would be happy living under a bridge and eating ramen noodles so long as you were having lots of sex, but really think about that. If you and your wife can address this issue as a team, and both come to an understanding of how the other feels, then you may be able to have the best of both worlds. Sure, it may never be the way it was when you were younger, but it can still be great.

 

You will have a wife who does so much for you, and while she may never be into sex the way you are, she is willing to try and to be there for you when you are in the mood. Like I said above, that may well be her way of showing you love.

 

Mind you, each person and couple is different, so I could be way off. I apologize if I am.

 

 

No I think you are right on the money on a number of things. I just need to determine where things are at in reality and how to proceed from there.

[S2B]

You said before that she stated she wished she never married you...

 

Does that mean you don't meet her needs too? What acts of service does she expect?

 

 

 

In the big picture I'm unsure of your description of sex and intimacy. They are separate but related.

If she isn't capable of using words of encouragement or of conversations involving emotions then intimacy may be unobtainable.

 

That's why I asked can you live with some sex but no intimacy?

[oldshirt]

You said before that she stated she wished she never married you...

 

Does that mean you don't meet her needs too? What acts of service does she expect?

 

 

 

In the big picture I'm unsure of your description of sex and intimacy. They are separate but related.

If she isn't capable of using words of encouragement or of conversations involving emotions then intimacy may be unobtainable.

 

That's why I asked can you live with some sex but no intimacy?

 

She said that in an outburst of anger during a particularly bad fight during a real bad time in our marriage several years ago. We started MC within days of that fight and much of our issues were addressed.

 

It was during MC that we learned about the love languages and started to address those needs more mindfully.

 

We did make some big turnaround after MC and she has since recanted those statements.

 

As far as emotional expression, she never has been and never will be a girly girl quarterly expresses deep emotional things. She can do enough to get by at times. I have historically accepted that because the sexuality was compatible.

 

I have dated mushy, sappy emotional girls in my younger days and found it uncomfortable and out of my realm.

 

Have there been times I wished she was more emotional and expressive? Sure, but it's not like she is an Ice Queen and I don't want to give the impression that she is.

[S2B]

She said that in an outburst of anger during a particularly bad fight during a real bad time in our marriage several years ago. We started MC within days of that fight and much of our issues were addressed.

 

It was during MC that we learned about the love languages and started to address those needs more mindfully.

 

We did make some big turnaround after MC and she has since recanted those statements.

 

As far as emotional expression, she never has been and never will be a girly girl quarterly expresses deep emotional things. She can do enough to get by at times. I have historically accepted that because the sexuality was compatible.

 

I have dated mushy, sappy emotional girls in my younger days and found it uncomfortable and out of my realm.

 

Have there been times I wished she was more emotional and expressive? Sure, but it's not like she is an Ice Queen and I don't want to give the impression that she is.

 

Dig deeper...

 

 

You seem as if you're answering the questions but you just don't quite answer.

 

It's like you don't really want to hit what's being asked...

[TexasMan68]

So here is my plan for moving forward. As I stated above, I know some will disagree with some of it but some of this is based off of what I know to be issues and have demonstrated positive results during similar episodes. Past success is no guarantee of future success but it's a good place to start vs starting where there was known failure in the past.

 

 

Here is what I am planning to implement ASAP -

 

 

- Be a more involved husband and father in the home. I admit to getting a little lazy and a little too indulged in my little hobbies and past times. This includes time here on LS. I'll still check in, but it will be on my time, not family time. My indulgence in my pasttimes has always been her biggest complaint. I am going to try to take away as many complaints as possible.

 

 

- Start hitting the gym more regularly and more effectively. I have slacked off her too and have put on the weight to prove it. I'm still not fat, but the old jeans don't fit so well any more. As of tonight, I am 5'11" and 184.2Lbs and my belt hooks on the 5th notch from the end. I'll use that as my "before" measurements to track progress.

 

 

- I'm also going to update the wardrobe a bit and bump up the grooming and such. I bought a new box of Whitestrips today in fact in hopes of having the pearly whites a little whiter by the end of the month. I may do a little tanning too as I'm starting to glow in the dark. Nothing extreme just a little color so I don't look like a ghost.

 

 

- I'm going to bump up the snooping to see if there are any 3rd party involvements. I haven't seen any evidence of that yet, but I am going to take an honest look before I rule it out.

 

 

- I am going to work on being my happy, smiling self and work real hard on my outcome independence. No more whining or complaining or bargaining etc etc. I actually have not done any of this for the past year and a half or so but I am really going to commit to not doing it at all going forward.

 

 

- I am going to take sex out of the equation for now. In other words I am not going to hit on her, initiate or make any attempts to have sex with her. If she initiates or wants some lovins, I will love her up to the best of my ability. But if she doesn't initiate somehow, I won't either.

 

 

This may seem counter intuitive but it's actually for several reasons. one is I want to ensure that I am not pressuring her at all or making her feel that is all I want. Another is I want to show that I can relate to her in other ways. And also, I want to see how long before she notices or even wants any lovins. If it's 6 months down the road and she hasn't said a word or made one attempt, then I'll have my answer.

 

 

Actually at the end of the month is our 20th anniversary. If our anniversary comes and goes and doesn't say a word or lift a finger, that will be a pretty big flag.

 

 

 

 

-I am going to put a little more time and energy into a side gig I've recently started doing. It's not anything major but if I can get it up and running, it will pull in a few more dollars a month. It's mostly a hobby that I will be happy if it will pay for it's self. It will never be a true money maker.

 

 

- Get a little more educated about menopause and learn more about treatment options and ways to adapt and deal with it better in the bedroom.

 

 

- and finally, while I won't bitch or whine, I will hold her accountable if she does something disrespectful, bitchy or inappropriate. I won't bitch or whine, but if she does something that is clearly disrespectful or inappropriate or discourteous, I will address it.

 

 

 

 

So that's it, that is my plan for moving forward. I will be open for suggestions, feedback, criticisms and I'll definitely need some encourage and a kick in the pants now and then as I have been slacking lately and getting lazier in recent months. When I start slacking, I can refer back to this post and remind myself of what I need to be working on.

 

 

Just one question. What does her list look like or are you the only one doing the changing to save the marriage?

[SummerDreams]

 

Is it that I have put on weight and gotten a few more wrinkles and have lost some muscle mass?

 

Is it that I have slacked on my acts of service and its a relationship issue?

 

 

Is there another man?

 

 

Is it that our marriage has run it's course and she is just simply not into me?

 

Is it a combination of a few or of all?

 

 

Honestly the way I see it if it was something practical like having gained weight or having some wrinkles wouldn't she have said something? I mean, if someone is horny I really don't think they will stop at "my spouse has some belly" or "her ass has gotten bigger", especially after your sexual past. Wouldn't she have said "I think you should start eating healthier, I see your belly getting bigger" or something like that?

 

In my opinion this woman has just decided she is done with enjoying sex, or it may be a combination of this AND menopause symptoms. As I have said in your other thread, sometimes ignoring and avoiding a problem is easier than facing it and dealing with it. For her it's easier to accuse you of being a sex addict and make herself the victim ("I have these menopause symptoms and he doesn't understand me, what a pig, he just wants sex") rather than aknowledging her wrong approach to the issue and trying to solve it. I bet deep down she knows she is at fault here in a degree but it's easier to just let it slide like this rather than try to solve it. You know what I mean?