Latest news. W cheated

[Mount]

I know. Just trying to comment on the dynamic or reality (or real life) that I observed, especially utilizing the example close to me. Not try to make a conclusion anyway.

 

It is what it is, no really black or white in it. Be mediocre could be the essence of the reality, everyone (MM, OW and wife) is getting something out of it I suppose.

 

But others could easily say, is it really fun to be an OW? Or is fun or the lack of fun a reason to divorce? Is fun a reason to cheat? Is fun more valuable than stability, or legacy, or happy kids? Everyone's different.

 

I can't speak on anyone's individual situation. But what I am saying is that we are all motivated by different emotions, and we value things differently. People make trade offs and sacrifices. They tolerate downsides. They accept what others may deem to be unacceptable. Whether they are OW, BS, WS or in any role in life. Life isn't just about finding "happiness". Sometimes it's about finding life's joy and happy moments, even in difficult circumstances.

[NewLeaf512]

My thoughts...

 

I don't think people like being miserable, nor is it always about fear. I think many people look at marriage as permanent and forever. Divorce doesn't even seem like a viable option to some people. They accept the cards they're dealt and make the best of it. To my understanding that is a choice to stay in an unhappy situation

 

Imagine if you bought a house and planned to live there forever. It's perfect because you have horses and it has stables. The horses bring you joy. But the roof starts leaking, pipes start bursting and the furnace goes up. Some people would buy a new house. Others tolerate the brokenness and slowly fix what they can afford to repair. The benefits outweigh the liabilities. to my understanding this is the only one that stands up because it's about fixing something

 

Imagine your adult child falls into addiction and steals money from your purse. You can't stand what your child has become and they are causing constant drama in your life. Some people would cut ties and never forgive. Other people would never put their kid out no matter what. They tolerate the drama and misery because they love their child and can't give up on them. They were raised not to give up on family and the stress of abandoning them would be worse than tolerating it. Again this is a. Choice to enable. The addict stays an addict and the parents sacrifice their lives

 

Imagine you've been working the same job for 30 years. It pays your bills, is close to home, you do the job well. You get a new boss who is a jerk. Some people would quit and find a new job. Others would tolerate the jerk because the job meets their needs in other ways.this again is choosing to stay in an unhealthy situation that makes them unhappy

 

We don't always make the most healthy choices, but that doesn't mean people are volunteering to be miserable. Tm the Queen of bad decisions that often makes them because of not thinking

 

Romantic love is not the only motivating factor in life. Many people have needs that are more important, and that's OK. There is no rule that says romantic love is the answer to happiness, or that the lack of it means you are resigning yourself to a life of misery.

I know a few older post menopausal women, who could care less about sex anymore. A divorce would turn their content and stable lives upside down. It would create pain for their kids and tarnish the legacy they want to leave behind. They'd be more miserable divorced in a small condo, than they would be staying married to their cheater husband. They don't really care that he's getting sex elsewhere. Yes but you are doing something outside your marriage vows which could lead to resentment. Maybe the H wants the W not a hooker

 

I guess what I am saying is- different things matter to different people. One woman may feel that a romantic connection is the most important thing in life and will move across the country to be with her love. One man may feel that cheating is the ultimate betrayal and can never stand the sight of his wife again. While another guy may value an intact family over romantic love. Some spouses genuinely forgive cheating, looking at it as one page in the chapter book of their marriage. We all value different things. Free

 

So I don't think it's usually about choosing to be miserable or being afraid to leave. It's about weighing options and possible outcomes. It's about what a person values in life, and what they are willing to tolerate. Who are we to judge?

Hello this is a very thoughtfully considered response. I will write in line and then give you my conclusion (only my opinion)

 

My conclusion based on my life and my experiences: life

Is too short to accept any situation you don't get joy from in in any way or

as much as possible. Otherwise you build up resentments.

 

 

NL

Edited October 17, 2015 by NewLeaf512

[Quiet Storm]

Hello this is a very thoughtfully considered response. I will write in line and then give you my conclusion (only my opinion)

 

My conclusion based on my life and my experiences: life

Is too short to accept any situation you don't get joy from in in any way or

as much as possible. Otherwise you build up resentments.

 

 

NL

 

I'm not saying it's the best or the healthiest choice to stay in difficult situations or tolerate bad behavior. I don't think that's optimal. However, these are flawed people making choices in an imperfect world. Most aren't perfectly balanced individuals with finely tuned coping skills. They are weighing many different factors, and resentment may be a risk they're willing to take.

 

For example, a MM may find personal joy with his OW, but when he weighs out the benefits/ liabilities, he may worry that the joy would be tarnished if it caused his children pain. So in his mind, if he seriously considers leaving, he's thinking of the downside- he could leave his family to be with OW, but would he still feel joy if his kids were depressed and spiraling, his wife's new BF was raising his kids, his character tarnished, etc? Both choices could lead to resentment... if he stays married, he could resent his wife. If he leaves, he could resent the OW. It could go either way.

 

With long term marriages, there is often an expectation that there will be ups and downs. Ebbs and flows. A few bad years doesn't mean it won't ever be good again. Marriages overcome betrayal, addiction, grief, illness, financial hardships, etc. It depends on the individuals in the marriage. This is what some consider to be the reason for the vows "for better, for worse". Some couples tolerate the bad times, and eventually the good times come again. Others will remain in their dysfunctional dance until they're side by side in the cemetery.

[NewLeaf512]

I'm not saying it's the best or the healthiest choice to stay in difficult situations or tolerate bad behavior. I don't think that's optimal. However, these are flawed people making choices in an imperfect world. Most aren't perfectly balanced individuals with finely tuned coping skills. They are weighing many different factors, and resentment may be a risk they're willing to take.

 

For example, a MM may find personal joy with his OW, but when he weighs out the benefits/ liabilities, he may worry that the joy would be tarnished if it caused his children pain. So in his mind, if he seriously considers leaving, he's thinking of the downside- he could leave his family to be with OW, but would he still feel joy if his kids were depressed and spiraling, his wife's new BF was raising his kids, his character tarnished, etc? Both choices could lead to resentment... if he stays married, he could resent his wife. If he leaves, he could resent the OW. It could go either way.

 

With long term marriages, there is often an expectation that there will be ups and downs. Ebbs and flows. A few bad years doesn't mean it won't ever be good again. Marriages overcome betrayal, addiction, grief, illness, financial hardships, etc. It depends on the individuals in the marriage. This is what some consider to be the reason for the vows "for better, for worse". Some couples tolerate the bad times, and eventually the good times come again. Others will remain in their dysfunctional dance until they're side by side in the cemetery.

 

 

I agree it is an extra ordinarily personal decision. I don't thing major infidelity is a normal ebb and flow. whilst I am not sure what I would do in any situation I do know when my H got another woman pregnant there was no coming back from that for ME.

 

Also for ME: I could get over a ONS I think but years long EA and PA even if I had children would not allow me to stay in e mediocre or any relationship with a man who could be so duplicitous I could not trust him with my children. I might try to R but it would niggle and niggle until I just wanted a D (if he had a long term affair).

 

For all that I don't judge anyone and there are many BS here who have gone on to have long and happy M after an A and I congratulate them .

[NewLeaf512]

With long term marriages, there is often an expectation that there will be ups and downs. Ebbs and flows. A few bad years doesn't mean it won't ever be good again. Marriages overcome betrayal, addiction, grief, illness, financial hardships, etc. It depends on the individuals in the marriage. This is what some consider to be the reason for the vows "for better, for worse". Some couples tolerate the bad times, and eventually the good times come again. Others will remain in their dysfunctional dance until they're side by side in the cemetery.

 

 

The only issue here for me is years. Years is a long time. Life is short. If you are going to try to move forward in R I think more than circa 18 months then the old A can be used as a stick to beat someone with

[Furious]

I'm not saying it's the best or the healthiest choice to stay in difficult situations or tolerate bad behavior. I don't think that's optimal. However, these are flawed people making choices in an imperfect world. Most aren't perfectly balanced individuals with finely tuned coping skills. They are weighing many different factors, and resentment may be a risk they're willing to take.

 

For example, a MM may find personal joy with his OW, but when he weighs out the benefits/ liabilities, he may worry that the joy would be tarnished if it caused his children pain. So in his mind, if he seriously considers leaving, he's thinking of the downside- he could leave his family to be with OW, but would he still feel joy if his kids were depressed and spiraling, his wife's new BF was raising his kids, his character tarnished, etc? Both choices could lead to resentment... if he stays married, he could resent his wife. If he leaves, he could resent the OW. It could go either way.

 

With long term marriages, there is often an expectation that there will be ups and downs. Ebbs and flows. A few bad years doesn't mean it won't ever be good again. Marriages overcome betrayal, addiction, grief, illness, financial hardships, etc. It depends on the individuals in the marriage. This is what some consider to be the reason for the vows "for better, for worse". Some couples tolerate the bad times, and eventually the good times come again. Others will remain in their dysfunctional dance until they're side by side in the cemetery.

 

 

Once again Quiet Storm your neutral and thoughtful reasoning is insightful.

 

I'd like to add that it's fruitless to dissect a dysfunctional marriage without dissecting the dysfunction that affairs add to the mix.

 

So often, OW/OM cannot a wrap their minds around a dysfunctional marriage but yet do not see the affair as another level to that very dysfunction.

 

So often an affair partner cannot reconcile with a spouse who continues with a dysfunctional marriage but yet is vying for that dysfunctional cheater.

 

If only I had a dollar for every OW/OM who says they'd not tolerate a cheater spouse but yet get involved with a wayward spouse. The irony is lost.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Furious

[NewLeaf512]

Once again Quiet Storm your neutral and thoughtful reasoning is insightful.

 

I'd like to add that it's fruitless to dissect a dysfunctional marriage without dissecting the dysfunction that affairs add to the mix.

 

So often, OW/OM cannot a wrap their minds around a dysfunctional marriage but yet do not see the affair as another level to that very dysfunction.

 

So often an affair partner cannot reconcile with a spouse who continues with a dysfunctional marriage but yet is vying for that dysfunctional cheater.

 

If only I had a dollar for every OW/OM who says they'd not tolerate a cheater spouse but yet get involved with a wayward spouse. The irony is lost.

 

I can now see that irony. Thank you for floating that idea and I think it's very relevant

[Furious]

I can now see that irony. Thank you for floating that idea and I think it's very relevant

 

 

NewLeaf

 

I think you're a lovely woman and you are smeone that is gifted and beautiful.

 

If I could, I'd wrap my arms around you.

 

Lve is a gift, life is beautiful. When I was down, I promised myself I would not at least find something beautiful in my day. i know the bleakness of wishing the sunlight to go way and struggle to get out of bed. It's ok, to grieve, and feel overwhelmed. It's a phase, can't get around it but only through it.

 

The first love is acceptance and learning to love oneself, flaws and all. Strange how sometimes it's easier to love another than it is to give that same love to oneself.

 

I truly wish for you to realize you are worthy of sunlight.

Edited October 17, 2015 by Furious

[Cymbeline]

I continually struggle with the idea that someone who cares about you as a person also engages you in a damaging affair. Common sense, no?

 

I also wince when the excuses for not leaving a stale marriage are given: children, assets etc. There is almost always more contentment in these marriages and more attachment than is dreamt of in this philosophy. They are frequently just a bit habituated and a bit too real and grounded to feed the fantasies of would be romantics. Marriage over the long term inevitably becomes an entity of its own, bigger than the two individuals who form it and encompassing economic and social/community aspects of living and ll the frustrations and reality that life brings.

 

A divorce is like a death. I wish more people would consider the function of marriage before embarking on it or inserting themselves in an existing one.

[Popsicle]

Very thoughtful thread.

[NewLeaf512]

NewLeaf

 

I think you're a lovely woman and you are smeone that is gifted and beautiful.

 

If I could, I'd wrap my arms around you.

 

Lve is a gift, life is beautiful. When I was down, I promised myself I would not at least find something beautiful in my day. i know the bleakness of wishing the sunlight to go way and struggle to get out of bed. It's ok, to grieve, and feel overwhelmed. It's a phase, can't get around it but only through it.

 

The first love is acceptance and learning to love oneself, flaws and all. Strange how sometimes it's easier to love another than it is to give that same love to oneself.

 

I truly wish for you to realize you are worthy of sunlight.

 

Furious

Thank you so much fo this compliment it means a lot to me.

 

Xx

[Eagle's-bargain]

Very thoughtful thread.

 

I have my multipass, so I can travel to all the different viewpoints.

[Popsicle]

I have my multipass' date=' so I can travel to all the different viewpoints.[/quote']

 

Very good.

[m4p]

I think that MM cheat also for emotional reasons, also. Sometimes they really enjoy the OW's company and friendship, as well as the sex. Feelings can develop for the OW, but they can't leave their marriages for a variety of reasons. It's hard to just leave your whole life for a new one. I do know that there are men (single and married) that will use a woman for sex and they don't want much else from them. I think that you can tell when someone really likes spending time with you and cares about you as a person.

 

This is something I struggle with.. we can't but we always try to quantify "care". Must one care enough or is this an all or nothing situation? We hear lots of "If he loves you he will not put you in this situation".. "If he cares he will leave"..etc.

 

I suppose it takes times to reconcile with the fact that we are all just silly humans living out our short lives on earth, bounded by obligations to be good, to be decent, to raise a good human bean, to be filial... bla bla

 

I needed a lot of time to get over the dynamics of my A. I asked xMM randomly once, will he ever leave his marriage (not for me, but just because)? He told me his W has been with him since college and moved 3 countries with him in the past decade, with little to no family/friends in where we are at now. It is not a matter of will he or not, in his words, he can't because he owes her just too much. Yet he did this to her with me. In short it is never clear cut. Maybe is a culture thing from where we are. It is always full of pros/cons/benefits/risks/ebb/flow/emotions/sex- that's just humans being humans so I never had any resentment. Somehow I understood what he was trying to explain. Is it weird if I find it decent? Trust me, the irony is NOT lost on me. (lol)

 

Oh well, feeling pensive and neurotic today.

[Popsicle]

This is something I struggle with.. we can't but we always try to quantify "care". Must one care enough or is this an all or nothing situation? We hear lots of "If he loves you he will not put you in this situation".. "If he cares he will leave"..etc.

 

I suppose it takes times to reconcile with the fact that we are all just silly humans living out our short lives on earth, bounded by obligations to be good, to be decent, to raise a good human bean, to be filial... bla bla

 

I needed a lot of time to get over the dynamics of my A. I asked xMM randomly once, will he ever leave his marriage (not for me, but just because)? He told me his W has been with him since college and moved 3 countries with him in the past decade, with little to no family/friends in where we are at now. It is not a matter of will he or not, in his words, he can't because he owes her just too much. Yet he did this to her with me. In short it is never clear cut. Maybe is a culture thing from where we are. It is always full of pros/cons/benefits/risks/ebb/flow/emotions/sex- that's just humans being humans so I never had any resentment. Somehow I understood what he was trying to explain. Is it weird if I find it decent? Trust me, the irony is NOT lost on me. (lol)

 

Oh well, feeling pensive and neurotic today.

 

I understand and am sympathetic to my xMM's plight too, but not enough to continue in an affair with him.

[yodelwithyu]

Hey Dela, its been a while. Just checking in. How are you?