Anxiety’s Getting The Best Of Me

[kpl]

Aw, thanks, StocksnBlondes. I'm just glad that I found a place where people understand. I haven't reached a conclusion about how I feel about the guy, but I think what's clear here is that I need to work on myself. Looking back at my posts over the last couple of years, what I'm going through with this guy is part of a pattern. I can't put all the blame on him for that. I just can't. As the saying goes, "If you're getting the same results, do something different," or whatever. With this guy, I didn't do anything different, so the fact that I expected a better outcome with him is crazy. I need to do some major work on myself.

 

100% agree. What this guy is or isn't doing is irrelevant, you need to be happy!

[Lovelorn00]

The *magic formula* is emotional and intellectual HONESTY.

 

Two things you have yet to be with this guy, and most likely guys you have dated previously, which is why they don't stick around.

 

You are essentially a *fake* and *phony* with these guys, pretending you're this cool, laid back, easy-going chick, okay and *cool* with their non-commital, elusive behavior, but that is a lie.

 

You are NOT okay with it (no woman looking for a RL would be) and you know what? These guys can all sense that, no matter how hard you try to hide it ....and girl, it's turning them off!

 

Your walking on eggshells with them is causing them to walk on eggshells with you ....again a huge turn off for most men.

 

Yep! All of the above. Which is why emotional honesty needs to be part of my "do something different" mantra. It's just these damn hormones get the best of me when I start to actually like someone. They make me act and feel like a crazy person. A crazy person who starts crazy threads solely based on some crazy, irrational thinking.

[Lovelorn00]

OP have you had any therapy for your anxiety? You don't have to let it affect your life so much. There are ways to manage it.

 

I have, yes. However, I think it's pretty clear that I require medication. I've just been avoiding it.

[Lovelorn00]

Have you two advanced your physical relationship at all? Is there any passion? To me, it reads like you're both friend zoning each other.

 

We have not, though I want to. Neither of us has really pushed for it, though. Passionate kissing, yes, but we both agreed to take things slowly on that front.

[Lovelorn00]

OP, I hear you, but a relationship like this is NOT something that happens by some magical formula. It comes from a willingness and ability to be open and honest about your feelings, your thoughts, your wants and your needs. It sounds to me like you're sticking your toe into that pool (telling him his kisses make you weak in the knees), but then you pull it right back out again because you're afraid of how he might react.

 

 

 

 

And I agree (great post, Katie!), that your tepid responses and your tip-toeing around this man has put him on tenterhooks as well. The kind of relationship you want can't be created between two people who refuse to speak up for themselves or let themselves be truly known and truly seen. You want the reward without being willing to put in the work yourself, yet every three days you say, "yes, I'm going to speak up and tell him something," and then you come back here and say you couldn't do it. Each time you do that, you erode your own self-esteem and your confidence that you can make it work.

 

But that's the thing, you CAN actually make it work. It's a process that takes RISK and vulnerability. Look up Brené Brown's talks on YouTube. She has a quote that I love: "Vulnerability is life's great dare," meaning that the willingness to stick one's neck out can be hugely rewarding, despite the scariness of being seen. My therapist is always telling me to move away from ambiguity and towards specificity, that ambiguity promotes anxiety and specificity diminishes it. The fact that you still don't really know what's going on with this guy is creating a HUGE amount of anxiety for you, so much so that you're afraid to look at his texts. Yet, one little question from you to seek clarity will hugely alleviate your anxiety. If he's not into you, at this point, so what? You've already inaccurately named the demise of your relationship about three times in this thread alone. You're right, you don't know if he wants a relationship with you, but instead of finding out, you keep yourself locked in this increasing spiral of anxiety. It's awful to watch you go through it, because you have the ability to alleviate it for yourself, yet you're refusing to do it.

 

I don't mean to rag on you OP. I speak from experience. I just spent a year with a man with much of the same dynamic (though to a lesser degree), and I've seen where a relationship like that can lead. I can honestly say that I don't want to do that again.

 

I am certain that you're capable of making these kinds of changes for yourself and getting the kind of relationship you want. You may not see it at the moment, it's true. But you're not going to get there unless you're willing to make changes in how you choose to interact with men.

 

Thanks, losangelena. Excellent advice, as always. This is why I stated earlier that it's not just him. Maybe he's a bad guy, maybe he's not, but I've also played a role in this by not being upfront and assertive with him. I've become, as katiegrl called, a phony, and I really didn't realize that until she mentioned that. Guys like the cool girl, so that's what I've tried to be, because my real self is crazy and anxious and neurotic. That's who I really am, and I'm convinced that no one would want to be with someone like that. So, I pretend. And it probably works for a couple of months, and then my neurosis starts to come through.

 

It's just very difficult to catch myself and make the changes necessary. The anxiety sets in so fast. It's a learned behavior. My brain just lets it happen automatically, because it's so used to it. It's so hard to cut it off at the pass and choose a different emotion. I am indeed working on it, though. In a way, this forum has given me a little bit of accountability. Though I don't personally know any of you, I can't keep coming on here and posting about the same problems over and over and over again. Like with my real-life friends, it's going to get old very quickly.

[Lovelorn00]

I hate to contribute to your anxiety but it sounds like he was lying about his friends bailing explanation. (Truth is simple, lies are complicated. His explanation was complicated.)

 

Also, he may be worried you're gonna sue him over the dog bite. Seriously. That's what ppl usually do when they get bitten by dogs. (Homeowners insurance takes the hit.)

 

Yeah, that's what it kinda seemed like to me, but I don't know. It's hard to tell. And if he was, it's hard to know the exact reasons why he wouldn't want me to come with them. I'm just going to back off for now. He clearly needs space, so I'm going to give it to him.

[Lovelorn00]

I dunno about this, actually. Her possibly suing over the dog bite could be forefront in his mind, but I don't think he would continue trying to see her as an appeasement. He doesn't seem to be doing ENOUGH in that regard if that truly is his angle.

 

I also doing think her text "guilted" him into inviting her. If he truly didn't want her to go, I think he would have just not even brought it up. In my experience, men ultimately don't do what they don't want to do. Maybe he's feeling as if she doesn't want to continue, especially after getting bitten by his dog.

 

He is acting quite tepid, that's for sure. But why, I'm not willing to speculate.

 

Bottom line, OP will not get what she wants if she continues acting in the manner to which she is accustom.

 

I agree with what you've said here. I've already told him that I wasn't going to report it, and he's paying all of my medical bills. He's initiated contact with me throughout the week and checked on me about how work was going (I told him I was going to have a hellish week - it was). I also agree that if he didn't want me to go, he wouldn't have said anything. I also thought about the fact that he mentioned his parents were going, so maybe he doesn't feel comfortable with me hanging around his parents just yet.

 

Like you said... he's giving off some crazy mixed signals, but there are too many variables that I just don't know about for me to label him as an a**hole just yet.

[Jejangles]

LL, I continue to think you take on these relationship issues as if there's something wrong with you and only you - and there may be, I don't know you well enough to say! But I also looked back over some of your old threads after you mentioned it and I think you summed it up at some point when you said (and I'm paraphrasing) "I continue to date people who are meh about me." I think this guy is riling you up because you know "he's just not that into you" and it's setting off all your anxiety.

 

If you met someone who was clear and consistent in their interest, you would hopefully find your anxiety would be very low.

 

I can't remember, have you read Attached? Because the take away I took from that book was that if someone is setting off your anxiety triggers, you need to take that as a very red flag and either quickly establish their intentions or just cut it off. The guy who is right for you will not make you feel so edgy. And of course, work on your anxiety as well, that's a big part of it.

[katiegrl]

LL, I continue to think you take on these relationship issues as if there's something wrong with you and only you - and there may be, I don't know you well enough to say! But I also looked back over some of your old threads after you mentioned it and I think you summed it up at some point when you said (and I'm paraphrasing) "I continue to date people who are meh about me." I think this guy is riling you up because you know "he's just not that into you" and it's setting off all your anxiety.

 

If you met someone who was clear and consistent in their interest, you would hopefully find your anxiety would be very low.

 

I can't remember, have you read Attached? Because the take away I took from that book was that

 

 

***if someone is setting off your anxiety triggers, you need to take that as a very red flag and either quickly establish their intentions or just cut it off. The guy who is right for you will not make you feel so edgy. And of course, work on your anxiety as well, that's a big part of it.****

 

Great post, and I concur!

[Jejangles]

How'd it go this week-end LL?

[joseb]

My real self is crazy and anxious and neurotic. That's who I really am, and I'm convinced that no one would want to be with someone like that. So, I pretend. And it probably works for a couple of months, and then my neurosis starts to come through.

 

It's just very difficult to catch myself and make the changes necessary. The anxiety sets in so fast. It's a learned behavior. My brain just lets it happen automatically, because it's so used to it.

 

 

Yeah that's not a good dating strategy!

 

I've dated a girl like this, and it really messed me up to be honest.

 

You need to get on top of this, and you can. Learned behaviour can be unlearned. The fact that you seem to recognise it so clearly makes me think that you can change it. You are your brain. It's not some separate entity.

 

Are you working with a therapist? Doing some CBT maybe?

[Lovelorn00]

LL, I continue to think you take on these relationship issues as if there's something wrong with you and only you - and there may be, I don't know you well enough to say! But I also looked back over some of your old threads after you mentioned it and I think you summed it up at some point when you said (and I'm paraphrasing) "I continue to date people who are meh about me." I think this guy is riling you up because you know "he's just not that into you" and it's setting off all your anxiety.

 

If you met someone who was clear and consistent in their interest, you would hopefully find your anxiety would be very low.

 

I can't remember, have you read Attached? Because the take away I took from that book was that if someone is setting off your anxiety triggers, you need to take that as a very red flag and either quickly establish their intentions or just cut it off. The guy who is right for you will not make you feel so edgy. And of course, work on your anxiety as well, that's a big part of it.

 

Thanks, Jejangles. The reason I think it has more to do with me than the type of guy I’m dating is because I’ve dated ALL types of guys. ALL types. Poor, rich, tall, short, handsome, unattractive, fat, skinny, black, white, green, purple, etc. You name it. The guy has changed throughout the year, but the story seems to be the same. I hit the two-month mark, and they lose interest. The common denominator is me. I clearly have anxiety issues that I need to work on, and I’m sure at least some of those issues are showing through in my relationships with these men. Even if a perfectly secure man were to waltz into my life right now, I’m not sure I wouldn’t still be getting those “red flag” just because of the type of person I am.

[Lovelorn00]

Yeah that's not a good dating strategy!

 

I've dated a girl like this, and it really messed me up to be honest.

 

You need to get on top of this, and you can. Learned behaviour can be unlearned. The fact that you seem to recognise it so clearly makes me think that you can change it. You are your brain. It's not some separate entity.

 

Are you working with a therapist? Doing some CBT maybe?

 

Hey, joseb! Yeah, I can't imagine it'd be easy to date someone with so many anxiety issues. That's why I've mentioned in earlier posts that I have to share at least some of the blame here. I am quite proud that I'm able to recognize the irrational thinking that tends to lead to my anxiety. It’s just a matter of taking that knowledge and putting it into action, which I’ve been doing, but it’s seriously difficult.

[Lovelorn00]

How'd it go this week-end LL?

 

Sooo…. He came through. I honestly didn’t think he would. I really thought (based on my extensive experience with guys who seem to be on the fence about me) that he would flake. He didn’t. He informed me of the plan and we met up at the festival. We had a blast. Or, at least I thought we did. Hell, I don’t know at this point. I met more of his friends (yes, the ones he said all cancelled on him before – I digress). They were all really nice and welcoming. Later that night, I was dropped off at my place by our DD. He got out, gave me a hug goodnight. I made the mistake of trying out this “assertive” stuff everyone keeps telling me about and basically told him that I wanted to make out with him. Ugh. I don’t know why I did that. I shouldn’t have. Thanks, alcohol! If there’s anything I’ve learned from this situation it’s that there really is something to the whole “guys want what they can’t have” thing. He stopped showing interest the moment I started to show it, and that tends to be the case with most guys. Once the chase is over, he’s over it. So now I’m all, “hey, let’s make out,” which is the LAST thing I should be saying to him right now, as that totally takes the chase away from him.

 

Anyway, he declined my offer. BUT, BUT!!! HOLD ON!! Before the guy-bashing starts, I’d like to say that he had a very good reason for declining. A VERY good reason. A reason I’d rather not divulge here, but let’s just say that if the shoe were on the other foot, I would also decline and quickly.

 

So, that was Saturday. Haven’t heard from him since. At this point, it’s not totally unusual for us to go a day without communication, but we’ve never gone two. I feel like my “make out” request might’ve frightened him away. Or something frightened him away. Jesus, dating is a lot like trying to feed a stray kitten or something. Don’t make a wrong move, or you’ll frighten him away! Should’ve known better. Forehead slap.

[katiegrl]

When you're with the right person, there is no such thing as a wrong move.

 

 

I have done and said plenty of dumb things when dating a guy. It never turned them off.

 

 

In fact it was the opposite, they found those little "dumb" remarks endearing! Especially my current.

 

 

Keep in mind I never continued to date guys who were NOT into me, so that may have something to do with it.

Edited October 13, 2015 by katiegrl

[losangelena]

Yep, Katie is right.

 

OP, please, listen.

 

Your task is clear—learning how to speak up for what you want, NOT trying to say or do whatever it is that you think will make this ONE particular guy stick around.

 

NO, NO, NO. Goddamn it.

 

I'm sorry for cursing, but it's just so frustrating/saddening to be reading this.

 

YOU are doing nothing wrong. There is not some big oops that you keep committing and this guy just gallantly keeps coming back, despite all your mess-ups. F*ck that noise.

 

NOOOOOooooooo ... that is patently FALSE thinking, and that is partly keeping you locked in these cycles of anxiety-provoking, unsatisfying relationships.

 

You decide what your values are; you figure out what you want and need from a relationship and then you act in such a way that ALIGNS with those values. Speak your mind; say no when you want to; be free to openly ask for what you want. If the guy runs away or shirks off, then GOOD RIDDANCE.

 

It is never about keeping the interest of one particular person at all costs. Never!

 

This is your pattern: things go well, but regardless, you start to feel anxious, you doubt the guy's interest, so you do enough to try and provoke a reaction, then "the guy comes through," and you're momentarily relieved because everything seems "okay," then your anxiety goes up again after doing something you feel may have been "wrong," and the guy once again seems distant. That cycle has played out, on this thread alone, at least three times, possibly four.

 

In part, the way you act towards these guys is not out of genuine interest, you're trying to provoke a certain reaction from them so as to relieve your anxiety about the relationship. But that's not a way to truly relieve your anxiety. Please read my thread about my now ex. I'm sure a lot of it will sound familiar: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/530527-feel-like-i-may-have-said-something-wrong

 

If you were to instead operate within the context of your dating values, you could look at some of his behavior (wishy-washy, last-minute planning; not wanting to make out) and weigh them against what you want/need. Instead of asking, "I haven't heard from him in two days, what did I do wrong?," flip the script and say, "I want a BF who will be in touch more often than every third day." This will relieve your anxiety and you free yourself up from being in confusing, anxiety-making relationships.

 

Obviously, many people are not great at this, as it's much easier said than done, but the way you're operating and your assumptions about your own behavior (that oopsie mentality, of asking for too much, expecting too much) are the major contributors to your anxious feelings. It doesn't matter who you date. If that's how you see yourself in a relationship—the one who has to be careful all the time—you're never going to get what you want from a relationship.

 

Hell yes he should have wanted to make out with you (whatever his excuse). This guy is getting no points from me. He may be "coming through," but barely.

[Lovelorn00]

When you're with the right person, there is no such thing as a wrong move.

 

 

I have done and said plenty of dumb things when dating a guy. It never turned them off.

 

 

In fact it was the opposite, they found those little "dumb" remarks endearing! Especially my current.

 

 

Keep in mind I never continued to date guys who were NOT into me, so that may have something to do with it.

 

Okay, I get it. He's not into me. Move on. Dump him. Give him the boot. Kick him to the curb. Leave him alone. Most of my girlfriends are telling me otherwise. Are they just being nice?

[kpl]

Yep, Katie is right.

 

OP, please, listen.

 

Your task is clear—learning how to speak up for what you want, NOT trying to say or do whatever it is that you think will make this ONE particular guy stick around.

 

NO, NO, NO. Goddamn it.

 

I'm sorry for cursing, but it's just so frustrating/saddening to be reading this.

 

YOU are doing nothing wrong. There is not some big oops that you keep committing and this guy just gallantly keeps coming back, despite all your mess-ups. F*ck that noise.

 

NOOOOOooooooo ... that is patently FALSE thinking, and that is partly keeping you locked in these cycles of anxiety-provoking, unsatisfying relationships.

 

You decide what your values are; you figure out what you want and need from a relationship and then you act in such a way that ALIGNS with those values. Speak your mind; say no when you want to; be free to openly ask for what you want. If the guy runs away or shirks off, then GOOD RIDDANCE.

 

It is never about keeping the interest of one particular person at all costs. Never!

 

This is your pattern: things go well, but regardless, you start to feel anxious, you doubt the guy's interest, so you do enough to try and provoke a reaction, then "the guy comes through," and you're momentarily relieved because everything seems "okay," then your anxiety goes up again after doing something you feel may have been "wrong," and the guy once again seems distant. That cycle has played out, on this thread alone, at least three times, possibly four.

 

In part, the way you act towards these guys is not out of genuine interest, you're trying to provoke a certain reaction from them so as to relieve your anxiety about the relationship. But that's not a way to truly relieve your anxiety. Please read my thread about my now ex. I'm sure a lot of it will sound familiar: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/530527-feel-like-i-may-have-said-something-wrong

 

If you were to instead operate within the context of your dating values, you could look at some of his behavior (wishy-washy, last-minute planning; not wanting to make out) and weigh them against what you want/need. Instead of asking, "I haven't heard from him in two days, what did I do wrong?," flip the script and say, "I want a BF who will be in touch more often than every third day." This will relieve your anxiety and you free yourself up from being in confusing, anxiety-making relationships.

 

Obviously, many people are not great at this, as it's much easier said than done, but the way you're operating and your assumptions about your own behavior (that oopsie mentality, of asking for too much, expecting too much) are the major contributors to your anxious feelings. It doesn't matter who you date. If that's how you see yourself in a relationship—the one who has to be careful all the time—you're never going to get what you want from a relationship.

 

Hell yes he should have wanted to make out with you (whatever his excuse). This guy is getting no points from me. He may be "coming through," but barely.

 

50 million likes! Couldn't agree more, well said.

[katiegrl]

Okay, I get it. He's not into me. Move on. Dump him. Give him the boot. Kick him to the curb. Leave him alone. Most of my girlfriends are telling me otherwise. Are they just being nice?

 

What is their justification for you continuing to "date" him?

 

 

Frankly based on his actions as of late, he sounds more like a friend at this point. Treating you like a friend would.

 

 

He came through for you as a friend.

 

 

I've said this before, but this is NOT how romantic relationships work....

 

 

I am sorry you (and your friends) can't tell the difference.

 

 

Edit: And IMO he's keeping you around as a friend because he feels somewhat guilty about his dog biting you.

 

 

He can't just stop seeing you altogether (feels too guilty) so he gives you the bare minimum -- a friendship.

 

 

And remember, had YOU not brought up the festival, and then announced you had no one to go with, and since he had already bought tickets (not one for you), it's very likely you would NOT have even seen him last weekend.

 

Anyway, based on his actions, IMO there is nothing indicating he is still interested in you romantically.

 

 

I am sorry to say that, but it's very obvious to me. I hope somehow, someway, he proves me wrong.

 

 

In any event, wish you the best going forward.

Edited October 13, 2015 by katiegrl

[Lovelorn00]

Yep, Katie is right.

 

OP, please, listen.

 

Your task is clear—learning how to speak up for what you want, NOT trying to say or do whatever it is that you think will make this ONE particular guy stick around.

 

NO, NO, NO. Goddamn it.

 

I'm sorry for cursing, but it's just so frustrating/saddening to be reading this.

 

YOU are doing nothing wrong. There is not some big oops that you keep committing and this guy just gallantly keeps coming back, despite all your mess-ups. F*ck that noise.

 

NOOOOOooooooo ... that is patently FALSE thinking, and that is partly keeping you locked in these cycles of anxiety-provoking, unsatisfying relationships.

 

You decide what your values are; you figure out what you want and need from a relationship and then you act in such a way that ALIGNS with those values. Speak your mind; say no when you want to; be free to openly ask for what you want. If the guy runs away or shirks off, then GOOD RIDDANCE.

 

It is never about keeping the interest of one particular person at all costs. Never!

 

This is your pattern: things go well, but regardless, you start to feel anxious, you doubt the guy's interest, so you do enough to try and provoke a reaction, then "the guy comes through," and you're momentarily relieved because everything seems "okay," then your anxiety goes up again after doing something you feel may have been "wrong," and the guy once again seems distant. That cycle has played out, on this thread alone, at least three times, possibly four.

 

In part, the way you act towards these guys is not out of genuine interest, you're trying to provoke a certain reaction from them so as to relieve your anxiety about the relationship. But that's not a way to truly relieve your anxiety. Please read my thread about my now ex. I'm sure a lot of it will sound familiar: http://www.loveshack.org/forums/romantic/dating/530527-feel-like-i-may-have-said-something-wrong

 

If you were to instead operate within the context of your dating values, you could look at some of his behavior (wishy-washy, last-minute planning; not wanting to make out) and weigh them against what you want/need. Instead of asking, "I haven't heard from him in two days, what did I do wrong?," flip the script and say, "I want a BF who will be in touch more often than every third day." This will relieve your anxiety and you free yourself up from being in confusing, anxiety-making relationships.

 

Obviously, many people are not great at this, as it's much easier said than done, but the way you're operating and your assumptions about your own behavior (that oopsie mentality, of asking for too much, expecting too much) are the major contributors to your anxious feelings. It doesn't matter who you date. If that's how you see yourself in a relationship—the one who has to be careful all the time—you're never going to get what you want from a relationship.

 

Hell yes he should have wanted to make out with you (whatever his excuse). This guy is getting no points from me. He may be "coming through," but barely.

 

 

Okay. Yes. Okay. Damn it. It just... hurts. Ugh. This whole situation is hurting me so badly. I'm terrified of asking for what I want. That concept is so foreign to me, because I've hammered it into my brain that my needs/wants and expectations when it comes to men are unrealistic. My girlfriends (who are married) are always telling me that I expect too much from men. I can't expect him to contact me every day. I can't expect him to want to spend every waking moment with me or include me in ALL of his plans at the beginning stages of dating. They tell me that my expectations are at fault. Therefore, I feel that I am at fault.

 

Also, he never said he didn't want to make out with me. However, there is a pretty valid reason why he couldn't make out with me on that particular night.

 

I remember that thread, losangelena, but I will admit that I hadn't been keeping up with it, because I didn't want to think about the fact that my relationship guru was going through relationship troubles of her own. Selfish, I know, but it hurts to hear that it didn't work out with you and your guy, because it seems like you have your ish together MUCH more than I do. If it didn't work out for you, there's no hope for me.

[Lovelorn00]

What is their justification for you continuing to "date" him?

 

Well, they don't exactly think that I should continue to "date" him, but they do believe that I need to just back off and give him some space. That he's going through a particularly overwhelming period in his life, and it may not be the right time for him to pursue a relationship.

 

Frankly based on his actions as of late, he sounds more like a friend at this point. Treating you like a friend would.

 

 

He came through for you as a friend.

 

 

I've said this before, but this is NOT how romantic relationships work....

 

 

I am sorry you (and your friends) can't tell the difference.

 

 

Edit: And IMO he's keeping you around as a friend because he feels somewhat guilty about his dog biting you.

 

 

He can't just stop seeing you altogether (feels too guilty) so he gives you the bare minimum -- a friendship.

 

 

And remember, had YOU not brought up the festival, and then announced you had no one to go with, and since he had already bought tickets (not one for you), it's very likely you would NOT have even seen him last weekend.

 

Anyway, based on his actions, IMO there is nothing indicating he is still interested in you romantically.

 

 

I am sorry to say that, but it's very obvious to me. I hope somehow, someway, he proves me wrong.

 

 

In any event, wish you the best going forward.

 

No, you're probably right. This isn't how a romantic relationship should feel. It felt super romantic in the beginning, for sure. But not now. Not at all. I hate this.

[katiegrl]

Lovelorn,

 

 

Check out the thread "Am I Wasting My Time--When is it time to let go??"...

 

 

Specifically Versachehottie's post no. 39.

 

 

It's right on and applies to your situation too.

 

 

You've been far too "patient" and "understanding" and it's not getting you anywhere...and it's causing HIM to feel ambivalent and stuck. Stagnant.

 

 

Just wondering, you said he "couldn't" make out with you and that he had a good reason.

 

 

Did he show you any sort of physical affection at all during the night? Take your hand, stroke your back, kiss you? Not make out, but just kiss you.

 

 

These are all things a man does when he has a romantic interest.

 

 

Not a hug when saying goodbye.... that's what friends do.

 

 

If you say yes he did show physical affection throughout the night....then perhaps he does have a romantic interest.

 

 

But if not, then as I said, it sounds like he's friend-zoning you....

[Lovelorn00]

Lovelorn,

 

 

Check out the thread "Am I Wasting My Time--When is it time to let go??"...

 

 

Specifically Versachehottie's post no. 39.

 

 

It's right on and applies to your situation too.

 

 

You've been far too "patient" and "understanding" and it's not getting you anywhere...and it's causing HIM to feel ambivalent and stuck. Stagnant.

 

 

Just wondering, you said he "couldn't" make out with you and that he had a good reason.

 

 

Did he show you any sort of physical affection at all during the night? Take your hand, stroke your back, kiss you? Not make out, but just kiss you.

 

 

These are all things a man does when he has a romantic interest.

 

 

Not a hug when saying goodbye.... that's what friends do.

 

 

If you say yes he did show physical affection throughout the night....then perhaps he does have a romantic interest.

 

 

But if not, then as I said, it sounds like he's friend-zoning you....

 

I honestly don't remember if he did, because I was slightly inebriated the entire night. And by "slightly" I mean a LOT. I vaguely remember him putting his hand on my leg when we were in the car and his arm around me, but that was about it.

 

It's just funny, because we were basically sexting each other last week. Getting pretty hot and heavy, so that would indicate to me that there was a romantic interest at least a week ago. Don't know what happened other than "the reason" we couldn't make out that night. And, honestly, I don't blame him. I probably wouldn't want to be affectionate with someone if I was dealing with this "reason" myself.

[losangelena]

Some questions/thoughts:

 

Okay. Yes. Okay. Damn it. It just... hurts. Of course it hurts, but we're trying to get you to a place where it does not hurt so much, or that if it does hurt, it's hurting for good reason. Right now you're hurting for entirely unnecessary reasons. Ugh. This whole situation is hurting me so badly. I'm terrified of asking for what I want. That concept is so foreign to me, because I've hammered it into my brain that my needs/wants and expectations when it comes to men are unrealistic. My girlfriends (who are married) are always telling me that I expect too much from men. I can't expect him to contact me every day. I can't expect him to want to spend every waking moment with me or include me in ALL of his plans at the beginning stages of dating. They tell me that my expectations are at fault. Therefore, I feel that I am at fault.

 

OK. Besides daily contact, what are some other things that you want/need from a relationship? I suppose "spend every waking moment with me" and "include me in all his plans" could be on there, but are those really legit needs and wants? To me those sound like things you want because not having those things makes you anxious. Again, I think having a list of REALISTIC needs and wants is a good start. I am serious about you making a list like this. You don't have to, obviously, but it will help. Here are some of mine:

 

NEEDS

Calls/does when/what he says he's going to do (integrity)

Not bigoted/misogynistic, is open-minded, likes people

Kind-hearted

Someone good with boundaries

Someone who makes me a priority

Someone I can have long conversations with

Communication

 

WANTS

Gregarious

Bigger than me physically/makes me feel feminine

Compatible sense of humor

Curious on an intellectual level

Fashionable

Has friends & can keep them

Can cook

 

These are lists that are not set in stone, obviously, and some things can shift from the needs and wants column. These are just guides to help whittle down the guys who are obviously bad choices.

 

Also, he never said he didn't want to make out with me. However, there is a pretty valid reason why he couldn't make out with me on that particular night. Oh god, what was this fricking reason, anyway? I don't know why you're so adamant against saying what it was. Did he have diarrhea or something?

 

I remember that thread, losangelena, but I will admit that I hadn't been keeping up with it, because I didn't want to think about the fact that my relationship guru was going through relationship troubles of her own. Selfish, I know, but it hurts to hear that it didn't work out with you and your guy, because it seems like you have your ish together MUCH more than I do. If it didn't work out for you, there's no hope for me. Well that's sweet of you to call me that, but quite the dubious distinction. Can I ask you, though—why are you so hung up on it working out with THIS GUY? Can you understand that what I (and Katie, and kpl and whoever else) are trying to get you to realize is that your problem is bigger than just one particular guy? We are trying to help you get to a place where things do not GO the way they did in my failed relationship. A relationship without the same old anxieties—can you imagine that? That's what we're trying to open your eyes to. You may NOT be able to salvage this relationship, but there might not be anything worth salvaging. But if you just keep conducting yourself in the same manner, you're going to end up having the same experience over and over, and that is what I hope you learn from all this (or eventually anyway, with the help of a qualified therapist).

[Versacehottie]

Hmmm, I'm going to have to re-read (i just skimmed a lot of the recents) to see what the guy has done--originally i didn't think he was such a bad guy--actually the opposite, probably like your friends.

 

IMO, OP though, you are so hard on yourself. You rip yourself to shreds. You gotta look at some part of the evidence: he keeps coming around, meaning he likes you. I think your anxiety is partly because you don't have full and final, the end, conformation of his interest. When would it ever be satisfying enough? We will never know ALL the answers. You are enough though and that should be good enough. I hope you listen to some of the great advice you've been given about anxiety (it sounds like you were). I don't want to see you sabotage good relationships. I think you know that a decent portion of it is self-created problems. You are just attributing it to that there is something wrong with you inherently and there obviously isn't. It sounds like it's "just" the anxiety messing with everything. It's not who you are though. That should show you it will be manageable. Good luck