Mrs. John Adams Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I am not even sure there is something wrong with her. Her baby isn't a baby anymore...she wants another baby. I felt the same way...for years....i was only 24 when my husband got his vasectomy. She is 38.....i hate to tell you this...but i went through menopause at 45...she may not have many baby producing years left. It is really hard to let go of the idea of no more babies. I think it is harder for some moms to get past the baby stage....but she will be fine. Just be patient with her. My recommendation is to tell her you love her...but you are very happy with your family just the way it is...and you are NOT going to undergo reversal surgery to have another baby. PERIOD. No argument. Then start painting the picture of what freedom looks like from BABY stuff....all the things she can do not being tied to a new baby. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 I disagree based on my experience with marriage counseling. Marriage counseling is there as a mediator to work on the issues in the couple. It can be about seeing each other's point of view, it can be about making one party see where they are being unfair and how the couple can handle it. If your toddler wants to play in the street or climb on a hot stove, do you seek a child counselor so you can understand each other's points of view? When the child thinks you are being unfair, do you need a mediator to work with the two of you to find the most fair and mutually agreeable compromise? Or do you tell them no and let them throw their tantrum? This is really the same thing. She is not being a rational adult weighing the merits and complexities of a life changing decision. She is under he grips of a deeply instinctual, primitive drive to reproduce even though there is not a single, rational, justification for it. She wants what she wants without regard to the harm and hardship it will produce, just like the child wants to play in the street because he/she wants to and doesn't like being told no. He can be compassionate and listen to her pleas and arguments without judgement or emotion. But at the end of the day he simply needs to say it's not plausible and he is not going to undergo a costly and painful procedure on his body because her hormones are playing havoc on her brain. Then end the discussion. She's not being rational or reasonable. there for there is no need for continuous dialog or mediation or compromise. This is one of those areas where you just have to say 'case closed' and then shut up about it. She may throw a tantrum now but In 5 years she will be kissing his feet that thanking him for having the balls to say no and keep his balls disconnected. This is a hill worth dying on. This is a case where you accept whatever anger and vitriol and bitterness she will throw at you. It is worth allowing her to divorce and walk away in search of some other sucker. It is worth her hating him for a few years because a few years after that she will be thanking him and praising his wisdom and strength. Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 (edited) If your toddler wants to play in the street or climb on a hot stove, do you seek a child counselor so you can understand each other's points of view? When the child thinks you are being unfair, do you need a mediator to work with the two of you to find the most fair and mutually agreeable compromise? Or do you tell them no and let them throw their tantrum? This is really the same thing. She is not being a rational adult weighing the merits and complexities of a life changing decision. She is under he grips of a deeply instinctual, primitive drive to reproduce even though there is not a single, rational, justification for it. She wants what she wants without regard to the harm and hardship it will produce, just like the child wants to play in the street because he/she wants to and doesn't like being told no. He can be compassionate and listen to her pleas and arguments without judgement or emotion. But at the end of the day he simply needs to say it's not plausible and he is not going to undergo a costly and painful procedure on his body because her hormones are playing havoc on her brain. Then end the discussion. She's not being rational or reasonable. there for there is no need for continuous dialog or mediation or compromise. This is one of those areas where you just have to say 'case closed' and then shut up about it. She may throw a tantrum now but In 5 years she will be kissing his feet that thanking him for having the balls to say no and keep his balls disconnected. This is a hill worth dying on. This is a case where you accept whatever anger and vitriol and bitterness she will throw at you. It is worth allowing her to divorce and walk away in search of some other sucker. It is worth her hating him for a few years because a few years after that she will be thanking him and praising his wisdom and strength. We are discussing two adults in a partnership not a parent/minor child. The analogy is ridiculous as the dynamics are apple and oranges. You are stuck on the idea that marriage counseling must mean both parties must compromise. I am saying no it doesn't. I don't agree with you oldshirt. Just have to accept it. Edited October 9, 2015 by Got it 2 Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Stand your ground. I believe BOTH parents must want to have the child. I (female ) had the same situation. My husband wanted more kids, but from before we married I made it clear that whilst I wouldn't have just 1 child, the number I had very much depended on his helpfulness with the kids. He even got our kids to try and talk me into having a little brother or sister. Talk about emotional blackmail. I told them they could have their own kids when they grow up. Then he went to my mom to get her on side for me to have another one, which I didn't find out about till years later. I stood my ground and said NO. I love my children dearly , but young kids add pressure on you. In all honesty I don't believe our marriage would have survived another child. Sometimes I think it would have been nice to have another one.......but those thoughts don't last long. You agreed to the third and if the three kids and you are not enough to fill her dreams , then tough! Enough is enough. You should not get a reversal and I don't even think you need a counsellor to navigate this. She should go and see the counsellor and tell the full story and see what response she gets. That part of the anatomy is delicate enough without faffing about with it more than necessary. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
anika99 Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 Then end the discussion. She's not being rational or reasonable. there for there is no need for continuous dialog or mediation or compromise. This is one of those areas where you just have to say 'case closed' and then shut up about it. She may throw a tantrum now but In 5 years she will be kissing his feet that thanking him for having the balls to say no and keep his balls disconnected. That may or may not happen. What if she continues to believe that her husband is denying her something vital to her happiness and then she spends years stewing with resentment? That could do all kinds of irreversible damage to their marriage. She isn't listening to her husband, she just thinks he is being cruel and unreasonable. She may need someone objective and removed to help her sort this out. She may be acting childish in your opinion but she is not a child and the OP is not her parent. Generally it's not a good idea to tell someone to treat their partner like a child. To the people saying that there is nothing wrong with her wanting a baby, I don't agree. Yes it's normal for women to desire babies, especially when their youngest are getting older and their childbearing years are nearing the end, but I don't think it's normal to treat your spouse like a monster and demand that your spouse undergo surgery to grant your wish even though you explicitly agreed to no more children just a few years ago. This woman's desire to have a baby seems fall outside of the realm of normal and something is fueling that, that she may need to address. It's like her entire self worth is tied to having babies. If he agrees to a 4th then in a few years she will demand a 5th. If 3 babies isn't enough to satisfy her than 4 won't either. A counsellor can help her. Not necessarily a marriage counsellor, maybe an individual therapist. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted October 9, 2015 Share Posted October 9, 2015 That may or may not happen. What if she continues to believe that her husband is denying her something vital to her happiness and then she spends years stewing with resentment? That could do all kinds of irreversible damage to their marriage. She isn't listening to her husband, she just thinks he is being cruel and unreasonable. She may need someone objective and removed to help her sort this out. She may be acting childish in your opinion but she is not a child and the OP is not her parent. Generally it's not a good idea to tell someone to treat their partner like a child. To the people saying that there is nothing wrong with her wanting a baby, I don't agree. Yes it's normal for women to desire babies, especially when their youngest are getting older and their childbearing years are nearing the end, but I don't think it's normal to treat your spouse like a monster and demand that your spouse undergo surgery to grant your wish even though you explicitly agreed to no more children just a few years ago. This woman's desire to have a baby seems fall outside of the realm of normal and something is fueling that, that she may need to address. It's like her entire self worth is tied to having babies. If he agrees to a 4th then in a few years she will demand a 5th. If 3 babies isn't enough to satisfy her than 4 won't either. A counsellor can help her. Not necessarily a marriage counsellor, maybe an individual therapist. Now an IC for her to learn to deal with her irrational yearnings is valid. I think she should. I'm just saying MC to mediate their disagreement is not advisable. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Popsicle Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Is she Mormon or something? Link to post Share on other sites
bathtub-row Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 She's right about one thing - she does have a right to change her mind. But she does not have the right to force that on you. She made a deal and this is too big to go back on it. Either she's really hung up on this baby thing, or she's doing it as avoidance of the marriage, or she has cheated on you, got pregnant and wants to cover it up by getting you to reverse your vasectomy. The latter is highly unlikely but you never know about people. I agree with the other poster. Tell her once and for all that the agreement was made and that's the end of the conversation. She can sulk till doomsday but a deal is a deal. Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Is she Mormon or something? I have 4 kids (one from first marriage) and while there's no religious affiliation, you do get some funny looks and comments from people based on family size. It's as though crossing the line from 3 to 4 children puts you on the fringe of cult membership and alternative lifestyle. For most people today, the idea of having more than 1 or 2 kids is hard to comprehend... Mr. Lucky 1 Link to post Share on other sites
sandylee1 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I have 4 kids (one from first marriage) and while there's no religious affiliation, you do get some funny looks and comments from people based on family size. It's as though crossing the line from 3 to 4 children puts you on the fringe of cult membership and alternative lifestyle. For most people today, the idea of having more than 1 or 2 kids is hard to comprehend... Mr. Lucky I agree , 4 kids hardly makes you a Mormon. I know lots of families with 4 kids. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
privategal Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Id tell her this holding both her hands and in the kindest tone say what you told us just like that: am feeling very frustrated with the situation. All I want is my wife, back on the path we were on and enjoy the family/life we have now. Also to continue to work on our marriage and deal with all the ups/down coming our way raising our amazing three children. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 OP - I do really sympathize as you are definitely in a damned if you do damned if you don't spot. My parents went through a similar situation, had two kids, my father was clear he didn't want another, my mom did. In their case my mom went off of birth control without telling my dad and got pregnant. So he got a vasectomy after the youngest was born. For him, he had good reason not wanting a third so it being completely disregarded was a wound for him as well as his opinion and desire being completely negated by her going ahead and getting pregnant. That was something I don't think he ever got over the distrust on even though he did love the youngest. It made for a very poor dynamic in our household growing up as my mom routinely overcompensated "standing up" for the youngest and I do think my dad took out some of his frustration on the child. Both parents have to be on the same page. And I think since there was such an agreement for you two that you took such measures to limit procreation she is the one that needs back down. I just think you aren't going to get her into IC as I am sure she thinks she is completely in the right. Where MC might be able to help "show her the light". I have used MC in a similar manner. It wasn't about meeting in the middle, it was giving a safe place to be able to fully express my feelings and decisions. I wasn't compromising but I wanted them emotionally supported as well. Link to post Share on other sites
MidwestUSA Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 Got it - it could have been worse. My husband's parents were 'done' after number 7. Four years later, she changed her mind, and shortly after, my husband was born. Because she felt the age gap was too great between him and the next oldest, she had another so that he'd have a playmate close in age (18 months, to be exact). Seven boys, two girls. I believe the belt was administered pretty fairly amongst the five oldest boys however. Link to post Share on other sites
oldshirt Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 This is just a personal rant but I don't think a woman has any more right to bully a man into getting a reversal and fathering a child, any more than a man has right to bully his wife into getting pregnant and having another child that she doesn't want. ...Or any more right that a man bullying his wife into getting an abortion (not wanting to trigger an abortion debate) If a man wan bullying a woman into having (or aborting) a child she didn't want, it would not even be a topic of discussion or a debate and there would certainly be no suggestions of MC and such. Why is this any different when it is a woman bullying another man into having an expenses and painful surgery and making him father and raise a child he doesn't want?? 4 Link to post Share on other sites
anika99 Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 This is just a personal rant but I don't think a woman has any more right to bully a man into getting a reversal and fathering a child, any more than a man has right to bully his wife into getting pregnant and having another child that she doesn't want. ...Or any more right that a man bullying his wife into getting an abortion (not wanting to trigger an abortion debate) If a man wan bullying a woman into having (or aborting) a child she didn't want, it would not even be a topic of discussion or a debate and there would certainly be no suggestions of MC and such. Why is this any different when it is a woman bullying another man into having an expenses and painful surgery and making him father and raise a child he doesn't want?? I think everyone pretty much agrees with you. Nobody is saying that the OP should give into his wife's demand or to accept her bully tactics. The reason I suggested counselling is because the OP's marriage sounds pretty miserable at the moment and it doesn't seem like his wife is going to give this up easily. They are married and have children and i don't get the impression that either the OP or his wife want to end up divorced. So do they live together in misery or do they get help? I'm not so sure what you say about the genders being reversed is entirely true. If a single woman turned up here saying that a man she was seeing was trying to bully her into have a baby, then yes, most posters would tell her to put her foot down, draw her line in the sand, and let the chips fall where they may. However if a female poster had exactly the same situation as the OP, married for years, three kids, her spouse is a pretty good husband and father but he has recently started to push her to have another baby, then I think many people would suggest some kind of counselling. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
dental Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 OP, what is she gonna do if you say no? She gonna leave you? Beat you up? Immaculate conception? Get the seed somewhere else? She the boss at home, I assume? You have to fix the dynamic in your house, if not, the future does not look pleasant. Good luck! Link to post Share on other sites
Popsicle Posted October 10, 2015 Share Posted October 10, 2015 I have 4 kids (one from first marriage) and while there's no religious affiliation, you do get some funny looks and comments from people based on family size. It's as though crossing the line from 3 to 4 children puts you on the fringe of cult membership and alternative lifestyle. For most people today, the idea of having more than 1 or 2 kids is hard to comprehend... Mr. Lucky 4 kids is not what made me wonder that, it's the fact that all she wants to do is have babies. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 4 kids is not what made me wonder that, it's the fact that all she wants to do is have babies. Understood. Just relating from experience that when 4 kids comes up, some folks look at you sideways... Mr. Lucky Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 This is just a personal rant but I don't think a woman has any more right to bully a man into getting a reversal and fathering a child, any more than a man has right to bully his wife into getting pregnant and having another child that she doesn't want. ...Or any more right that a man bullying his wife into getting an abortion (not wanting to trigger an abortion debate) If a man wan bullying a woman into having (or aborting) a child she didn't want, it would not even be a topic of discussion or a debate and there would certainly be no suggestions of MC and such. Why is this any different when it is a woman bullying another man into having an expenses and painful surgery and making him father and raise a child he doesn't want?? Ummm, no one disagrees. Every poster has posted on the side of the OP. How to handle the conversations and process with his wife has varied but everyone feels he is in the right in this. Having children is a hugely complex topic in a marriage and can be a dividing one. Like finances, it can end up with the partnership thinking of just themselves and losing the focus as a team where that focus must be paramount. She as reneged on the original agreement. She is wrong. But how she feels isn't wrong, feelings are feelings. This kid, the next one, etc. what she may be trying to do is buy time to mourn the ending of this chapter of her life. So the OP is the whipping boy on this as it's easier to rail against him than against life, aging, etc. He can't make her come around, he can support her and love her, but she has to deal with her emotions and right now she is focused on him being the obstacle. Hopefully she will start seeing the forest for the trees. I sympathize with the OP based on my father's experience and hopefully she will focus on what is best for their marriage and family and understand while her feelings aren't bad, she needs to work through them. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Clarence_Boddicker Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Does she have $10,000 of her own money laying around to pay for a reversal? Insurance doesn't cover that. Link to post Share on other sites
justavillagegirl Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 OPs wife is very manipulative indeed. Has she said what she will do if you do not grant her wish? Link to post Share on other sites
Got it Posted October 11, 2015 Share Posted October 11, 2015 Does she have $10,000 of her own money laying around to pay for a reversal? Insurance doesn't cover that. Not true. It depends on how the insurance is set up but there are some that will cover reversals; my does. Link to post Share on other sites
craw Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 Anyone watch THE OFFICE? Link to post Share on other sites
GorillaTheater Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 I have 4 kids (one from first marriage) and while there's no religious affiliation, you do get some funny looks and comments from people based on family size. It's as though crossing the line from 3 to 4 children puts you on the fringe of cult membership and alternative lifestyle. For most people today, the idea of having more than 1 or 2 kids is hard to comprehend... Mr. Lucky I agree , 4 kids hardly makes you a Mormon. I know lots of families with 4 kids. All of the sudden I'm feeling a little weird about mentioning how many kids I have. I blame recessed Irish Catholic genes. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mr. Lucky Posted October 14, 2015 Share Posted October 14, 2015 All of the sudden I'm feeling a little weird about mentioning how many kids I have. I blame recessed Irish Catholic genes. Let's start a cult together :eek:! In my case, I blame top-shelf margaritas and poor family planning... Mr. Lucky 3 Link to post Share on other sites
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