we are working things out "" but im hurt still

[jerrygordon3]

little background on her and the problems: she is still married, but hasn't started the divorce. not worried too much about this. has in the past been very verbally abusive and mean.

 

me. I have watched porn and lied about it, something that really bothers her. I think she is emotional immature, but ti bothers her still. i have also gotten physical with her. her past marriage fell apart because of his addiction and physical abuse.

 

I don't like the wauy she treated me when we were together, and we both felt under appreciated and like doormats, because i didn't take the porn thing seriously and lied, and on my side because she was always criticizing me and making me feel like i was ****ing up all the time. problems turned into fights, into tons of resentment. Here is my problem though. even though i was done, she recently broke up with me and it's something she had started saying a lot. it's over etc, then make up the next day. it started after she caught me texting another girl, ( which to my defense had been flirtatious but, very harmless). when she left me though she kept dragging it out and seeing me but very cold. then i went through her phone and saw her talking to someone. nothing bad, but I pushed her away and she made it serious that she was done. still she contacted me, still i tried to get her back. over the course of the month i would tell her i needed space and she would get furious. three days ago we got back together."".... it's going smoothly, and she's been very upfront talking about what happened. that the guy was nice to her, that she was done with me, and thats that. but she was hurt and waiting to see me change, hoping that i would prove something to her. i was, however, heart broken and trying to kiss her and she wouldn't even kiss me. suddenly when we got back together, she said she had tried everything to get over me and couldn't. the guy was a coworker and just a party guy, and she blew off his first date invite because it was too soon. she is still in love with me, wants to take it slow, and is back to her old self. this time though, she is putting her daughter first which is great, and very focused on herself, we are still hanging out everyday, and making plans left and right. it seems like things are going great, and we both have come to realize the space was needed to reevaluate. we love each other. BUT, i keep finding my mind wandering to other places, like wondering if she is secretly seeing him still. she's been so nice about reassuring me. but im still just hurt. she said nothing happened, but there were a couple nights after our break up where she would go missing all night and not respond, and I wouldn't hear from her until the next afternoon. both times she had slept at her coworkers house " Nikki's"... she works at a bar, and is a very loyal, focused girl. she doesn't drink much and we both have the fitness thing in common. we meal prep, and lift, and don't socialize with most people because out lifestyles. i guess on paper is sounds promising, but my mind keeps wandering and my confidence is GONE. I have low self esteem and am worrying constantly still. when we broke up i wasn't sleeping or eating and had nightmares when i did sleep. I've been a disaster.

 

is she stringing me along, does it sound like she is serious about things again.. i don't know what to think. or maybe i am overthinking a delicate relationship and im going to end up ****ing it up again cause im being a crazy person. please help.

[bathtub-row]

When you say that you got physical with her, do you mean you hit her?

 

So, let me get this straight, you want to get yourself worked up over strange, naked women, and you flirted with another woman, but YOU can't get past a relationship that she had when the two of you were apart. Tell me, please, what planet you live on because I'm thinking it can't be earth.

 

My impression is that the two of you are highly toxic for one another and she doesn't know what love is unless someone is treating her like crap. I can only hope that she will come to her senses and realize that there are actually men out there who don't physically or psychologically abuse women the way you and her ex do.

Edited October 10, 2015 by bathtub-row

[jerrygordon3]

she is extremely mean, verbally abusive, calls me super bad names, and throws temper tantrums. like makes everything about her and calls me 50 times when im at work, screaming at me. comes over and keeps me up over a stomach ache until4 am on more nights than i can count. she's treated me like total **** the whole relationship, and yes i lied about porn. she also freaked out multiple times and hit me. hard. yeah when she goes into crazy town I've lost my cool and grabbed her and held her down, I've manhandled her and its wrong. but i never hit her. not making excuses, any woman in her right mind would have left me for that, but I've never been treated so ****ty in a relationship before, and i guarantee that nobody with any self respect will put up with hours and hours of phone conversations a day because of her insecurities, and then she dumps me and goes stone cold. ya she had reasons, but im a loving boyfriend. im obsessed with her, and i always go out of my way to make her feel special. i leave cute notes on her car and buy her flowers. set up romantic dates. far from perfect. but you're right she had a thing outside of the relationship.

[bathtub-row]

In that case, then she's the one that's toxic for you and you need to lose her quick. Fast forward your life to being married to this nutcase, and having kids with her. People like this don't get better after marriage, they become far worse.

 

I have a family member who's married to a woman exactly like this and his life is truly a living hell. They also have kids who live through their arguments and who continually hear their mom call their dad all kinds of names. And if he does anything to protect himself, she calls it abuse. I've seen her in action many times, and especially have witnessed her rage. The children were crying their hearts out while their mom screamed at their dad, while viciously throwing things at him. Since then, I haven't spoken to her nor will I ever. I still see my family member but she knows exactly where I stand with her. My family member will not leave her because he is afraid of what she will do to him and his kids. Now, this is no timid or small guy. He's 6'3" and built. But she completely controls his life. And I agree with him that she would be a complete maniac if he left her. I wouldn't even put it past her to harm or even kill him.

 

Make no mistake that people like your gf will rip your life apart. And there will be basically no fixing it. I hope you're hearing me because you will regret being with this abusive person like nothing you can imagine. Whether you're hurt about some guy that she may or may not be seeing is completely irrelevant in the grand scheme of things. I'd advise you to get out now while you still have your life intact.

[jerrygordon3]

everyone i've ever met, since we first started dating, has told me to get out. coworkers who saw how tired i was. friends. even the coworkers i didn't know too well. one just the other day, saw him and he said, i saw kaleigh the other day at the gym and hoped you weren't still with her. I barely knew him. my new boss calls her chernobyl, and says to run before she kills me. but now she is acting so cool and nice. she says she went crazy because i lied to her.. i remember how manipulative she is. but she's come clean and told me all about this other guy, and that she had to take space and realize how much she loves me. she tells me she wants to marry me, and there have been periods where we are amazing.

[bathtub-row]

Look, dear fellow, I'm going to say something to you that I know for certain. Something I can say without a drop of reservation. Abusers are the most covert manipulators you will ever come across. This person is being all nicey-nicey because she's trying to con you into getting hooked even deeper into this relationship. If you're not careful, her next move will be to get pregnant. This is exactly what happened to the family member that I was telling you about.

 

Of course there are going to be times when the relationship is good, even great sometimes. But this will not make up for her crazy behavior that will end up ripping you apart. And I'm not using these words lightly or saying them because they sound poetic. I'm saying "rip"'because it's an extreme term, what she will do to you will be so extreme you won't know what hit you.

 

The red flags are all around you. Objective people are telling you something very, very significant but you're not taking them seriously. I have made a deal with myself. If I date someone and my family and friends don't like that person, I will end the relationship. I've learned that objective observers who have your best interest at heart are incredibly good at seeing things for how they really are.

 

Please read the book entitled "Why Does He Do That?" By Lundy Bancroft. You will see your gf on every page. You will understand that abusers do not change because abuse makes them feel powerful, and they're addicted to that power. You will see that even the good times are a form of abuse because abusers know they can't abuse all the time, plus you know the good times will never last. So you're never truly at peace.

 

I'll point out to you that I had an ex cheat on me. But, you know what? I never went ballistic on him. This behavior that you're describing is completely unacceptable and there is no excuse for her acting that way. Please see her for who she is and please stop accepting her excuses for the inexcusable.

 

There is zero -- ZERO -- doubt in my mind that if you stay with this horrible person, you will fully regret it. That is something I can absolutely guarantee you.

[jerrygordon3]

just like everyone else said. i don't understand why she left me like that. and she was so cold about it. i am super in love with her. but it always ends up being me in trouble for something. ill be honest, she always seems to have something to be mad about. but since we got back together she's been super nice. see how it goes, but, when i talk to her, it always makes sense. im just constantly scared. im worried a lot, and when she calls or texts i get really nervous. she never posts pictures of us, never texts me back, only calls, and she tells me she can't wait to see me and misses me, but, idk, i can't help but feel like its going to be short lived, because i never really feel like she's truly loved me for me? if that makes sense. I understand she has issues, and I've created them and I've done this and that, but i want someone who isn't loyal"" but turns around and punishes me and makes me feel like im always wrong and messing up. i want someone who is loyal and loves me for me, not with exceptions. idk. i see her point. I can say now that, no she isn't a nice person all the time, but she is very loving and affectionate most of the time. i hope she isn't still seeing someone and just manipuilatingnme... either way i will find out if she is, and if she starts treating me terrible again i will walk away because i have other options... like having a successful career. and being happy. two things that i don't always feel are options with her.... but i digress. she has been very cool the last couple days, so we will see. when she wasn't sure she wanted me she was angry and mean and very cold. it was like she was trying to hurt me on purpose. she saw how much i cried and how hard i tried to get her back, but she was done because she " gave me so many chances".... idk, seems like im always trying to make something up to her.

[bathtub-row]

She left you like that because she enjoys controlling you.

 

Please read that sentence again and let it sink in. Because I'm not guessing at her actions, I KNOW that's what she's doing.

 

As you have so keenly observed, she always has something to be angry about and that will always be the case. It's because she's addicted to anger and control. Think of it like being addicted to cocaine. It's a force beyond you. Even when she's not going Cheynobal on you, she constantly has you walking on eggshells. This is not love and it is no way to live.

 

I wish you would wake up and see what's right in front of you. No one else likes her and there's a good reason for that. Someone who loves you in a healthy way would not treat you like that. She is using coldness and is withholding love because she enjoys hurting and controlling you. I hope you will understand this before it's too late. Just because you can't fathom that someone would really think in such a way does not mean they don't. That's why I recommended that book. It was the thing that finally made me see what my ex was made of. To this day, I will have nothing to do with abusers. I have no sympathy for them. If you read the book, you'd understand. It was written by a psychologist who dealt with literally thousands of abusive people. He knows them like no one else.

 

These people are completely broken and completely unfixable. Please give up all hope that she will change because she won't. Well, except for if you marry her and have kids with her. Then she'll become a monster you thought you'd never see.

 

The great thing about abusers is that they are highly predictable. It's like they all read from the same script -- blame others, justify, re-write history about what really happened, flirt or cheat to control you, withhold affection, etc. You get the picture. Abusers also like to isolate their victims. Let me guess - she hates just about everyone in your family and all of your friends. They isolate because it gradually wears down your spirit and then they have even more control over you. They also know that outsiders see the game very clearly and they don't want that being pointed out to you.

 

And do not underestimate her. If she thinks you'll leave her, she will start taking drastic measures -- like getting pregnant. Love to this person is all about control. She will do whatever it takes to keep you around. And if you break up with her and she goes completely quiet, that will actually be another way of getting at you. Abusers know human nature and they're extremely good at pushing your buttons. Please stop letting her do this to you. Go read things in the abuse section. Read about the incredible regrets of people who stayed with these monsters. They will ruin you and they will completely screw up your kids. And that will completely break your heart.

 

If I were you, I'd stop talking to her and stop listening to her excuses. I would sit her down and have one last conversation: "Dear sick, crazy, abusive person. Since we've been back together, I simply cannot forget your anger issues nor your horrible treatment of me. I know now that I will never trust you. I'm saying goodbye."

 

Your best move is to leave this person and fully extract her from your life. I know it hurts like crazy but that's because you have been controlled and are hysterically attached to her. Please find the strength to cut out the cancer and move on. If you don't, your life will be 100% misery.

[Downtown]

Jerry, please listen to Bathtub. He's giving you excellent advice based on his experience with abusive people.

she is extremely mean, verbally abusive, calls me super bad names, and throws temper tantrums.... screaming at me.... hit me. hard.

Jerry, the behaviors you describe -- i.e., verbal abuse, physical abuse, controlling behavior, low self esteem ("insecurities"), rapid flips between Jekyll (adoring you) and Hyde (hating you), and always being "The Victim" -- are classic warning signs for BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Moreover, the repeated cycle of push-you-away (by creating arguments over nothing) and pull-you-back is another one of the hallmarks of having strong traits of BPD.

 

I caution that BPD is a "spectrum" disorder, which means every adult on the planet occasionally exhibits all BPD traits to some degree (albeit at a low level if the person is healthy). At issue, then, is not whether your GF exhibits BPD traits. Of course she does. We all do.

 

Rather, at issue is whether she exhibits those traits at a strong and persistent level (i.e., is on the upper end of the BPD spectrum). Not having met her, I cannot answer that question. I nonetheless believe you can spot any strong BPD warning signs that are present if you take a little time to learn which behaviors are on the list. They are not difficult to spot because there is nothing subtle about behaviors such as physical abuse, always being "The Victim," and temper tantrums.

 

im going to end up ****ing it up again cause im being a crazy person.

If your GF does have strong BPD traits, your feeling "crazy" is exactly what you should expect. Of the 157 disorders listed in the APA's diagnostic manual, BPD is the one MOST NOTORIOUS for making the abused partners so utterly confused that they feel like they may be losing their minds. Therapists therefore see far more of these abused partners -- coming in to find out if they are going crazy -- than they ever see of the BPDers themselves.

 

i don't know what to think.

I join Bathtub in recommending that you stay away from this young woman before she kills you (as your boss has warned) or has you thrown in jail on a bogus charge (as my exW did to me). Yet, if you still are unwilling to walk away, I would suggest you see a psychologist -- for a visit or two all by yourself -- to obtain a candid professional opinion on what it is you're dealing with.

 

I also suggest you take a look at my list of 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to join Bathtub in discussing them with you.

 

Significantly, learning to spot these warning signs will NOT enable you to diagnose your GF's issues. Only a professional can do that. Yet, like learning warning signs for stroke and heart attack, learning those for BPD may help you avoid repeating the painful experience -- e.g., avoid taking her back and avoid running into the arms of another woman just like her. Take care, Jerry.

[jerrygordon3]

I am really surprised. I met her child, she started taking me out to nice places, introduced me to her family. she is always with me and seems obsessed with me. But ya she flips this switch and it's like trying to make a sandwich out of soup. nothing works and it's so frustrating. and last time it left me absolute devastated and heartbroken cause she actually left me. I gave her herpes accidentally. since then she has had breakouts all the time. it was also at the beginning of our relationship. i figured the mistrust and resentment came from that. But when she left me i found her talking to someone else that she worked with. she said she had, had enough of being lied to about porn, and me getting physical with her. ( totally understandable) however, i have never been like this with anyone before. NEVER. she brings out this frustration and rage from me. anyways, she was straight up evil during the break up. called me and would ask me where i was and scream at me, then hang up. but for weeks i was sending her love letters and long long texts pleading with her to at least treat me with some sympathy. and she wouldn't even respond, when she did it was short and only would focus on the one text i sent that was frustration. I don't know what happened between this guy and her but she says that it was just nice having someone so into her, and he was really nice, but she turned his date invite down because it was too soon. and she has continually said she wouldn't ever get close enough to someone to tell them she has herpes now so there was no way she would have sex with him. now she is back and we've spent some time together, and just last night she came over and was sort of cold and frustrated with me because she's having a painful outbreak, and didn't want any affection. I TOTALLY understand this, but it's the only thing she talks about the last couple days.... although she is being very cool about it. just keeps telling me she's in pain. i feel terrible, but at the same time, i feel confused and sort of like she's doing it just to toy with me. after the way she's treated me during the relationship, and how ****ing cold she was when we started to split. i truly don't know who she is. i mean, I don't know ANYONE who would put up with her. the amount of patience. waking up to a tornado, and spending all day with crazy lady texting and calling and screaming, then sobbing, and picking fights and trying to keep me up until 4 am when she knows i have work at 6. But when she was out of my life, i couldn't sleep, eat, when i did sleep i had nightmares. she even slept over last night and i had nightmares that i had to get her back. since we have been seeing each other again, she is spending so much time with her daughter, she's being sweet, and talking with sense, even though we are both hurt. She gets hurt and starts feeling frustrated, but she's calmed herself down. she is really stressed about life. im just trying to figure out if i DO stop watching porn, and actually give it 100%, and stay off the steroids and don't flip out and grab her, could it be good again. could it be the way it used to be. will she always freak out on me, keep me up late. it wasn't always this way. just after she found me texting an old friend erika, that she looked cute in a picture. i hurt her and i get it, but there was a period where we got along great, spent every moment together, but, at the same time, once her patience was tried with the porn thing, she became the she devil.

[bathtub-row]

Ok, the STD is pretty horrible. I'm not sure what the circumstances were but it's bad either way. Btw, has that been verified by a doctor, or are you just taking her word on it?

 

Regardless, this does not change the facts of her personality. And I hope you can someday accept the fact that she will not change. People in your very situation waste a lot of years of their lives thinking that if this changed, or that changed, if this stresser was taken away, or that one, things would be better. Someday you'll understand that she looks for and invents dramas. I'm sorry to tell you but she is too broken to be fixed. What you see is what you get. Please don't expect things to ever get better.

[jerrygordon3]

after all of this I let her back into my life. after an obvious affair and a month of her freaking out and calling me screaming at me, and then hanging up. she strung me along and tortured me for a month, and then out of nowhere came back and said she wanted to work things out. then after we had sex sunday night, she lied about going home to see her daughter. she even called me from her kids bed " whispering and pretending to be home". but i was already driving to her house and she wasn't there. after a year of being in love, she used me like she hated me. and went from my bed to another mans bed. Im really heart broken and so ****ing hurt. but at the same time, it makes me think she's just sort of a sociopath. she's obviously a selfish liar, doesn't care about anyone but herself, and parties constantly and leaves her kid with her mom.when i went to her house that night and saw that she wasn't there, i knocked on the door and talked with her mom for two hours. her mom told me that kaleigh is pretty much an addict and doesn't even love herself, and that she tried to warn me to run when I would come over. she always screamed at her mom, always screamed at me, and according to her mom, her husband chases her out of the house with a gun after 5 years of marriage because kaleigh was never happy and then started cheating on her husband. this i didn't know. I pretty much got played. after the fact, she tried to lie about it, then when i called her out, she yelled and freaked out on me for it, then five minutes later began begging me to see her and to talk. she even sent this message

 

" Please jerry, please just talk to me, please. what if i start going to church with you. what if I quit mission( her bar job) and start training ( personal trainer, something i helped her study for and tried to start a healthy company with her doing) you can look at my phone whenever you want. we can start over."

 

to which i replied: that wouldn't change the one thing i can't live with. you would still be you. I have nothing left for you. not my body, not my love, and not my time.

 

she has texted me twice since then, not even asking for me back, just offering to bring my clothes over and saying its not her fault that she checked out after i beat her down for a year..

 

as in, her idea of working at the relationship was being a dictator, freaking out on me constantly, and never being happy because i watched porn. always something. when in fact, she never apologized, and never compromised. it was always my fault, i was always in the dog house, and that justifies her breaking up with me, having an affair, and ****ing me and someone else in the same day.

[bathtub-row]

Great response to her!

 

Wow, I'm really sorry you are going through this. Would it make you feel any better to hear about how, in the end, you're going to look back and wonder what on earth you were thinking by being with such a crazy person? You pegged her right by calling her a sociopath. She's certifiable, with the morals of a jackrabbit. This is not a person you want to share a home, life or kids with.

 

I think too many of us don't give enough thought to who we allow into our lives. This is serious stuff and we all just mostly float along and welcome anyone that we share a mutual attraction with. From here on out, you will be able to spot an abusive person from a mile away. That's a great thing.

 

And, btw, this thing about not trying to get you back but talking about bringing your things over, is just another game. I wish you'd step out of this emotionally as best you can and just sit back and watch her implode. Watch how even her apparent lack of interest in you pushes your buttons. Watch the things she does and says. They're all designed to manipulate and hurt you.

[jerrygordon3]

im second guessing everything. wondering if maybe it was my fault? justifying. I mean, i did do things like watch porn and lie about it. then when she would get hurt for it, one time i was sort of an ******* about it. I just know that I loved her, but she has made every mistake in the relationship my fault. and now she is running for the hills? she's seeing someone else? I don't get it. I mean, i made it pretty cut and dry that i had nothing left for her and she hasn't contacted me really since. It's just frustrating because i miss what we had and im hurt. i can't believe she would do all these things and just give up. suddenly i wasn't allowed at her work, she's turned everything and everyone against me. pretty much made it impossible for us to date. i just don't get it. she has lied to people and turned things against us, and i swear when i talked to her mom, her mom just said that she is pretty much addicted to self image, and always runs off with toxic people. she doesn't really put a whole lot of effort into her daughter, and it really blows me away, that last sunday after we had sex, she drove somewhere, i can only assume another guys house, and called me pretending to be in her daughters bed. doesn't she know a good guy? I mean I wasn't perfect, hell no, but pros vs the cons? all she seemed to focus on ever was this porn thing, and the one time I texted an old friend that I thought she was cute too. and I did give her an STD. i did grab her, and i was physical and im a big guy. I mean **** I get why, but she never took responsibility for anything and blatantly had an affair after she saw me cry, and try for a month to get her back. she was obsessed over the details when we started working on things again. like the fact that I had a short convo with a girl who asked me out and i cancelled the date? the whole time she's apparently seeing someone else though? I just got played, and we had a year history. I just feel like she's making a huge mistake and I'm hurt and confused.

[bathtub-row]

Sadly, you just don't seem to get it but I hope you will someday. At best, the two of you are highly toxic for one another. That alone should be enough for you to stay away from her and let yourself heal. Good relationships are not built on this kind of high drama.

[kendahke]

Let her husband deal with her crazy a&&.

 

Don't deal with other men's wives.

 

No woman's kitty is that good.