OW - my aftermath [update: day 205]

[Mount]

I think what "susmay" meant is that husband (in this case) MM/OW can always go deep contact, WITHOUT a trace, behind your back.

 

The bottom of it - are you happy? The harsh reality is that MM (or your husband) can still have very much deep affair with OW secretly and happily, and thinking of you as nothing. Again, not saying it in an offending way.

 

I am not going to use my example again, as MM now really thinks wife's multiple times (>5) ultimatum is a joke, because she refuses his proposition that he wants to openly see me and keeps overall impact lowest level.

 

We are still together many years later, and the OW is nothing...

 

He is still a flawed man, but then aren't we all.

Edited October 5, 2015 by Mount

[NewLeaf512]

I think what "susmay" meant is that husband (in this case) MM/OW can always go deep contact, WITHOUT a trace, behind your back.

 

The bottom of it - are you happy? The harsh reality is that MM (or your husband) can still have very much deep affair with OW secretly and happily, and thinking of you as nothing. Again, not saying it in an offending way.

 

I am not going to use my example again, as MM now really thinks wife's multiple times (>5) ultimatum is a joke, because she refuses his proposition that he wants to openly see me and keeps overall impact lowest level.

 

 

Mount, thanks for your post. I am trying to follow this: You are an "other" and your AP BS knows? Im sorry if I have that messed up. Help xx

[Mount]

Yes exactly. We (me and MM) have been trying to push more HARDER more open, wanted to BS accept it but she apparently does not accept MM seeing me, thus giving him one ultimatum after another ultimatum, but MM wants to continue seeing me. The latest time (or you can call it D-day, although nothing to be Discovered further), while BS confronted me (over the phone), MM stood up for me saying because our feeling is so deep he & myself can not NOT seeing each other.

 

Again BS gave him another ultimatum, asked him not to see me, but every day we never stopped.

 

Mount, thanks for your post. I am trying to follow this: You are an "other" and your AP BS knows? Im sorry if I have that messed up. Help xx

[NewLeaf512]

Had you mentioned his suicide attempt before now?

Either way listen, he is likely a mess and hurting too, but what cruelty to try and duplicate a painful experience you already went through by his attempting to do the same and leave you greiving 2 suicides?

Either way he has many problems right now and his greif and life situation do not allow him room to find compassion and care to comfort you. He needs to get away from everything.

It is good for you to be away from this mess.

When its over no words, apologies, or explanation can help soften the pain or really help. The folks on here that HAVE gotten that "closure" are normally sickened by the words chosen by their xap's as the explanations are usually cop outs, or disrespectful and leave a person with more to analyze.

Your screen name is New Leaf...with your new job and coming up on the end of a year...now that this chapter us closed, it truly is time to turn a new leaf and let the flow of CHANGE and new interests and experience to come into your life.

Try slowly to accept and let go. Hopefully you've left no way back to you as your doing well in NC...

 

 

Hi PrivateGal and thanks for the words of encouragement. In my rational mind of course you are right, I just get flashes of things that happened (Not just the A but the friendship too) and think good grief are you really such a monster (answer: yes)

 

 

We have all been through our life experiences good and bad, but as adults I think we have to try to say "yes these horrible things <insert your horror here> have happened to me. I will never forget these things or the lessons they taught me, but I must acknowledge them feel the feelings, get the lesson, and move forward" Depending on you and the horror this could be an iterative process.

 

 

Doing nothing is not only self harm, but also harming others.

 

 

Thank you for noticing I did not break NC, I had a few close calls, not to be in contact with him, but to send a gift of a usb stick to all his family so they would know who he is. But why? what does that get me? It might feel good for 5 minutes (ok maybe 5 days) but then what? I become as common as they are.

 

 

I am terrified and now a bit excited about the new chapter. I have no idea what that will look like but, I do know I am a survivor and that has to mean something.

 

 

xx

[NewLeaf512]

Yes exactly. We (me and MM) have been trying to push more HARDER more open, wanted to BS accept it but she apparently does not accept MM seeing me, thus giving him one ultimatum after another ultimatum, but MM wants to continue seeing me. The latest time (or you can call it D-day, although nothing to be Discovered further), while BS confronted me (over the phone), MM stood up for me saying because our feeling is so deep he & myself can not NOT seeing each other.

 

Again BS gave him another ultimatum, asked him not to see me, but every day we never stopped.

I see. So not to be completely stupid, but it sounds like you and MM are deeply in love. Is there a reason for MM to stay with BS?

[ladydesigner]

Yes exactly. We (me and MM) have been trying to push more HARDER more open, wanted to BS accept it but she apparently does not accept MM seeing me, thus giving him one ultimatum after another ultimatum, but MM wants to continue seeing me. The latest time (or you can call it D-day, although nothing to be Discovered further), while BS confronted me (over the phone), MM stood up for me saying because our feeling is so deep he & myself can not NOT seeing each other.

 

Again BS gave him another ultimatum, asked him not to see me, but every day we never stopped.

 

^See this is madness^ if my WH were to give me the word that he wanted MOW I would have opened those doors as wide as I could.

 

Why this BS is choosing to stay under those conditions is beyond me.

 

Now I can understand if her WS is feeding her a bunch of crap to make her think the A is over why she would contemplate saving the M, but what you have described Mount is astounding that she would want to put herself through that.

 

I know there are some people who think A's just have to run their course. I don't believe that. I think a person should choose where they want to be and quit d*cking everyone else around.

[Mount]

He is too old to change :lmao::lmao: And yes he is a bit weak too I suppose.

 

To be fair to him, he had tried to leave wife so many times, lawyers...etc, made his household/relatives/children well known about his affair. In reality I feel sorry to cause his family in such turmoil, that is WHY I insist him to stay where he is, but try to push hard make the affair or our relationship open.

 

 

I see. So not to be completely stupid, but it sounds like you and MM are deeply in love. Is there a reason for MM to stay with BS?

Edited October 6, 2015 by Mount

[NewLeaf512]

Today was a worst. Apparently I like to keep shooting myself in the foot

[Mount]

Come on Leaf, cheer-up, again, can't you not see you are the only person had courage to CHANGE.

 

 

Others here, either OWs or Betrayed wives, are just keeping stat quo, no change, or tolerate (as for BS).

 

 

Yes you had lost MM, so what, next one could be much better.

 

 

Today was a worst. Apparently I like to keep shooting myself in the foot

[NewLeaf512]

Come on Leaf, cheer-up, again, can't you not see you are the only person had courage to CHANGE.

 

 

Others here, either OWs or Betrayed wives, are just keeping stat quo, no change, or tolerate (as for BS).

 

 

Yes you had lost MM, so what, next one could be much better.

 

Mount I don't want ex Idiot again ever.

 

What I would like is the faith in the human race back

[Mount]

Then you have nothing to worry about or sad about .

 

 

Just continue moving forward, enjoy the journey of new job, meeting new guys, and of course new challenge.

 

 

 

 

Mount I don't want ex Idiot again ever.

 

What I would like is the faith in the human race back

[yodelwithyu]

Mount I don't want ex Idiot again ever.

 

What I would like is the faith in the human race back

 

THIS. I am right there with you, NewLeaf. ((Hug))

[wanderingxsoulz]

Terrible week for me. Still NC but I just can't stop thinking or crying.

[lookingforclosure]

24 days NC here...bad night last night. I woke up with my heart pounding out of my chest, sweating and feeling sick.

[NewLeaf512]

I don't know how to multi quote, but I read this and it's stayed with me. I used to say it to myself hundreds of times a day, and now much much less. So I will give it to you. Use it if it helps.

 

If he wanted to be with me, he would be here. He doesn't want to be with me, so he isn't.

 

 

It really is that simple.

[Dela]

I don't know how to multi quote, but I read this and it's stayed with me. I used to say it to myself hundreds of times a day, and now much much less. So I will give it to you. Use it if it helps.

 

If he wanted to be with me, he would be here. He doesn't want to be with me, so he isn't.

 

 

It really is that simple.

 

 

Hugs, dear. U are so strong!!!!

I m around!

 

Hugs hugs hugs

[NewLeaf512]

It's really painful but true.

[NewLeaf512]

I understand what you are saying Mount. An ultimatum is no good if his wife doesn't follow through with it. She stays with him for her own reason just as you do. It isn't my place to judge her for it.

 

Before the bolded part you added to my post, I put they had a choice. No one can make anyone do anything. My husband had a choice just as he did when he had his affair. If my husband had called her or wrote his OW I would have divorced him. He knew that I was serious. He chose to stay married. I didn't make him do anything.

 

New Leaf, you are a human being in pain.You are not evil or an whore. Please don't ever considered yourself that way. You are so wonderful and strong in so many ways. We all have things we wish we could undo. It doesn't make us bad people just human.I never thought my pain would end. It took a long time but it did end. Yours will as well but it will be a rollercoaster of emotions till it does. I wish I could hug you back.

 

 

This means a lot to me. You are a gracious lady.

[SandraTempleton]

Hi New Leaf,

I thought I should share this article I found that really helped me to rationalize some of my own thoughts after I found out the guy I was seeing went back to his ex. Let me know what you think:

 

The Replacement Mentality: But WHY did they go back to their toxic ex when they could have had me? | Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue

[NewLeaf512]

Hi New Leaf,

I thought I should share this article I found that really helped me to rationalize some of my own thoughts after I found out the guy I was seeing went back to his ex. Let me know what you think:

 

The Replacement Mentality: But WHY did they go back to their toxic ex when they could have had me? | Baggage Reclaim by Natalie Lue

 

 

Thank you for the article. Some of it was really useful. It was good to re-read some of what I already know and am in therapy for but I certainly think it's worth a read to anyone here.

[NewLeaf512]

Last few days 0

 

The great job fell through. I have a signed contract so I'll get a settlement. The good news is that it wasn't my doing.

 

I'm too depressed and I just don't want to do it anymore.

 

I need to do something radical or just give up on life.

[NewLeaf512]

Disclaimer: just my experience.

 

For me as the initially duped OW in an A then informed OW with an EA has been totally devestating in all areas of my life.

 

 

My shy, reticent social personality has become a frightened, depressed, vulnerable, empty and dead feeling one.

 

The career and confidence I once possessed have disappeared. It's impossible to find a role. There is no way I can face up to the process and scrutiny of more interviews after this last role fell apart Friday. It was the only light I had in a pretty dark tunnel of a life. Now I do not believe I have enough left in me to stand and represent my clients in a meaningful or successful way.

 

As I am getting further and further away from my professional community, contact with others has become less and less. I tried to do some sport yesterday and then see some music last night which were my two passions, and I felt nothing.

 

I've been humiliated by ExMM even though I have maintained NC. He tried to pull a legal manoeuvre on me in the summer which cost me a considerable sum and was basically like peeling my skin off my body again with having to relive it.

 

There is therapy and I've learned so much more about me and for that I am grateful.

 

I'm grateful for what support I have had here. There have also been men who have PM to me with outrageous messages.

 

As to ExMM he is still in his role, having also gained a promotion, still M to BS, family in tact, celebrating the 25th wedding anniversary with an enormous fete attended by mutual contacts and friends during which they gave huge speeches to each other about their love and beautiful family. They are taking a second honey moon to an exotic locale.

 

I've also learned that BS found out (unsure of the source) that ExMM has been cheating for 20 odd years, she confronted him, he denied it, and she believes him.

 

The BS is the one I feel sorry for, not on ExMM 's behalf, that's his issue, but for any part I had in any hurt to her.

 

My feelings towards myself for being a simpleton who believed lies, who trusted, and who allowed myself to be used and mistreated border on complete lack of self respect. And all of it for a person who erased me and years of whatever it was in minutes with not even a backwards glance, just as a piece of soiled trash to be dropped in the rubbish bin and disposed of.

 

There are some posters on LS who have lauded my strength. I'm not strong. I was existing.

 

At this point with me on my knees with the ashes of my life around me, I know there is no hope for me to ever have any semblance of a life. I've had a hard one and now I'm too tired to bounce back. The best I can hope for now is to robotically go through whatever motions I have to so that I can look after my friend. The positive is that through therapy I won't ever allow myself to be a victim (knowingly or not) of anyone with a BPD or NPD ever again.

 

I wish I had a happier story to share.

 

NL

[SammySammy]

So dramatic.

 

None of it is true though.

 

There IS hope for you and you CAN go on to have a spectacular life.

 

You're just choosing to wallow in misery.

 

I was also lied to and deceived. So many of us here have been mistreated, disrespected, used and abused. None of that is a valid reason to give up on life.

[NewLeaf512]

So dramatic.

 

None of it is true though.

 

There IS hope for you and you CAN go on to have a spectacular life.

 

You're just choosing to wallow in misery.

 

I was also lied to and deceived. So many of us here have been mistreated, disrespected, used and abused. None of that is a valid reason to give up on life.

 

I'm sorry you were lied to and deceived as many here have been.

 

I'll suggest you don't know me, and if you'd walked in my shoes you'd not be able to say I wallow in misery. If your husband or wife ever shoots people, and then blows their brains out standing toe to toe with you, and you were able to carry on, please let me know.

[starglider]

Newleaf,

 

I'm sorry this is a sad day for you. But your user name shows you do have optimism that you can turn over a newleaf. Yes, you can.

 

I think all of us on this board must share a common trait of having self esteem issues and this is why we behave in inappropriate ways. This is an old wound from an early age in our life. NPD and narcissists all have a core issue of low self esteem, low self worth and consequently I'm convinced we all have some form of attachment disorder - whether it is avoidant (push away) or anxious-avoidant (pull-push).

 

The solution is we grow up and face that deficit inside. There are ways to build up our sense of self worth without engaging others for this need. We can learn to see ourselves, and to let that be enough. That can fill us up.

 

Getting inappropriate messages from other men is a sign you are still putting out these signals and others who are damaged respond. I face up that I'm still doing this too. I'm getting in these situations now with other married men (being invited to go on a day trip by car to an art event in the city, getting told by another he "loves me" when inviting me to go to a concert on his extra ticket, getting told I have beautiful eyes by another MM). "Gosh! How did this happen" is my naive and still unhealthy, BS response. "Uggh, stop engaging unavailable men in boosting up your self esteem" is my healthier response. "Just stop it!!!" I've had a lifetime of thinking that I'm just being friendly, but no, I'm damaged and am using playful banter out of boredom or to make life more fun or to try to get a fix of being "seen" in a way that is setting a terrible model for my daughter of how to interact in this world.

 

Face yourself, grow up, heal, stop sending out signals, be kind to yourself if you relapse but try the next day not to make the same mistake again. Learn to see your own NP or BPD traits (it can be on a continuum) and try to imitate how healthy people are in the world in terms of their boundaries and style of interaction. There is still a "you" there if you learn better boundaries and how to carry yourself.

 

I still backslide daily. Just at the car dealership I turned on the switch for an exchange with the guy filling out my paperwork. I recognized it immediately after I had done it. My next encounter with him I interacted in a "boring transactional way." There was no fun by missing that spark, but it was a step in the right direction of becoming a more solid, less damaged person.

 

You will find your newleaf I know!