Slashed and stabbed while sleeping

[Craig]

Originally posted by CurlyIam

One question to you, Craig, about the man who got slashed: why did he come back to her after the first attack? This is what I cannot understand. IT's beyond me.

 

What made him come back? what made you stay?

The man that got slashed came back after the first attack because his wife was extremely apologetic, appeared to be genuinely sorry (and probably was at the moment), they have a 5 month old son together and he took his marriage commitment seriously.

 

What made me stay is first of all I couldn't believe that this was actually happening or happening to me. I searched for some explanation and couldn't find one that I would accept. When our relationship was free of violence it was extremely good (maybe too good), I held out hope that what we had might return but of course it never would or will.

 

What made me leave is first accepting that my wife would never change back to the woman I fell in love with and finally in one of my first support group meetings there was this guy that told his story, but his story was my story. It was so utterly strange to hear someone I had never met tell my story (but it was his story.) At that moment I realized that my situation was not unique, that others had been through the same thing and I knew in my gut that I had to get out.

[Fun2BMe]

On a related note, why was it again that Kobe's wife stayed with that cheating a-hole? It wouldn't be for the 5 million dollar diamond ring and pimped out lamborghini he bought her, among other things, as an apology? Oh yea, she 'loves' him too. I don't know how much she would if he wouldn't be able to afford the niceness phase. That's why all the spouses of wealthy celebreties turn a blind eye to the cheating.

 

Pamela Anderson even put up with the beatings, taking her husband back after multiple visits to the hospital and black eyes. He was so sweet, loving and generous in the 'i'm sorry" period. The last straw for her was only when he dropped their son who was an infant at the time, straight to the ground on his head.

[CurlyIam]

I am so sorry for you, Craig. I really am. Do you know or suspect why she acted this way ? (actually, my last post was adressed to you, but I didn't mind Fun2BMe's reply )

 

It really does sound unreal, I must confess that if it did happen to me, it'd crush me. You're a strong person for getting over it.

[Craig]

Originally posted by Fun2BMe

I don't have time to form such elaborate "opinions". I am basing my feedback on material I have read in psychiatric journals in my university library and papers I have read - both hardcopies and online.

 

It may not be popular or you might not think it sounds good, and I don't have the terminology and jargon to make it sound more "educated' but that is the case for many abusers and victims out there, whether you like it or not, whether you personally can relate to it or not.

If you don't have the terminology and jargon to make it sound more "educated" how could you possibly understand what you profess to have read.

[Craig]

Originally posted by CurlyIam

Have they proved that those women are mentally disturbed? And are they all having mental medical conditions? Is it abuse that turns them into abusers?

 

I'd really like to know your opinion on what the cause might be in women's cases, I guess.

Curly, speaking only about women as abusers, I do know that Borderline Personality Disorder (BPD) comes up a lot. Other than that I don't know. My wife was diagnosed with Obsessive Compulsive Personality Disorder (OCPD). The prognosis for a person with OCPD is grim at best and only gets worse as a person ages.

 

Regarding what turns people into abusers? The answer is no one knows for certain right now. Theories abound but there is no complete understanding yet.

[Craig]

Originally posted by CurlyIam

I am so sorry for you, Craig. I really am. Do you know or suspect why she acted this way ? (actually, my last post was adressed to you, but I didn't mind Fun2BMe's reply )

 

It really does sound unreal, I must confess that if it did happen to me, it'd crush me. You're a strong person for getting over it.

Don't be sorry for me Curly, be happy I have learned more about life and I'll take this experience with me where ever I go. Perhaps, someday I can assist someone else as well.

 

I think my last post addressed some of the why she acts the way she does. The "why" of all of this is something I don't understand and maybe that's a good thing.

 

It is crushing in a way, maybe in the same way that some people get stabbed and don't even know it until someone else points it out. The shock and disbelief is as Moi put it "surreal" and in the finest tradition of Dali too.

 

I think anyone that goes through this kind of thing has to be strong. Speaking for myself, I chose to endure the abuse in the hope that something I could do would make things return to the way they were during the first 4 years of our relationship. It was only when I accepted her the way she was that I knew the only solution was for me to leave the relationship.

 

I had no immediate benefit by staying in the relationship. It cost me time, emotional distress, loss of personal and real property, lots of money, friends, business associates and etc. The extremely cool thing about getting out of the relationship for me has been the ego boost of having my old friends and business associates coming back to me. It seemed like once they knew what I had been going through everything made sense to them about my behavior. Even though I had not had contact with some business associates for nearly 4 years they were ready and wanted to jump right back into doing business with me again. No one except for my counsellor and support group members knew about the abuse until I moved out.

 

To be honest I still ride a small roller-coaster of emotions but things are getting better.

[Fun2BMe]

How did you get out of the relationship?

[Craig]

Originally posted by Fun2BMe

How did you get out of the relationship?

Good question. It looked like I would have a lot of trouble from her but I discovered something she had done that if brought to the attention of certain parties would cause her immense grief. I told her that if she created problems for me leaving that I would create massive problems for her. She has been polite to me and I have not initiated contact with her since I left.

 

You see to her friends and the community she walks on water. Most people think she is so wonderful and kind but really she isn't. It's kind of sad really but I don't think she actually feels emotions like a normal person does. She seems to go through the motions of feeling but is more like an actress than anything. She hates everyone and talks badly about them when they aren't around her. If they are around her she treats them like they are her best friend. You could say that she hates everyone equally.

 

The other guys in my support group that left their violent SO's found their SO's trying to continue the abuse and repeatedly contacting them by phone, voice mail, e-mail, snail mail, just showing up at home or work as well as calling their friends and bosses--sometimes over a period of years. One guy in my group moved out 7 years ago, has been divorced over 5 years and his ex still tries to contact him and heap verbal abuse on him. He stopped taking her phone calls so she'd get their son to call and then she'd come on the line. Up until late last year she would sometimes show up on his doorstep at home and knock on his door. He wouldn't answer the door of course. This is the woman that was arrested for beating their son. She got 3 years probation, 52 weeks of psychiatric counselling and a 52 week program for batterers. It didn't help her except to learn what she could get arrested for and what she could get away with.

[moimeme]

Curly, I took issue with your statement:

 

I cannot help that whatever followed afterwards is partly his fault for staying.

 

Anytime I see someone blame a victim, I see red. There is just no excuse for that.

 

I have read in psychiatric journals in my university library and papers I have read - both hardcopies and online.

 

OK, Grad par extraordinaire, then you understand that unsupported statements are worthless, academically speaking. So let's have some references.

[Craig]

Here is an update on that fellow that was stabbed and slashed by his wife while he was sleeping. Apparently she was offered a plea deal that included 3 years in jail/prison. She turned it down and is now going to trial.

 

The poor fellow that was stabbed and slashed is just starting to comprehend that he was extremely close to being murdered by his wife.

 

The domestic violence counselling center that our survivors group meets at is 99% staffed by women. Prior to this incident we were treated politely and with respect but now things have changed. Suddenly, seemingly as the result of this violent incident, we seem to have been embraced by them as genuine survivors of DV. My guess is that many of the women staffers just weren't sure if we men were for real even though nearly all of our wives had been arrested for DV. I guess having a client walk in all bandaged up after his wife tries to kill him in his sleep made it all real for them. Staff that never talked to us now stop to chit chat, go out of their way to help and etc. The difference is dramatic.

[westernxer]

Originally posted by Craig

I guess having a client walk in all bandaged up after his wife tries to kill him in his sleep made it all real for them. Staff that never talked to us now stop to chit chat, go out of their way to help and etc. The difference is dramatic.

 

Whatever it takes, I suppose...

[CurlyIam]

Hey, dyscrimination is alive and kickin' everywhere, recovery centers included!

 

I don't even know what to wish to the guy who got stabbed... what on Earth could you say to him? It must be horrible to see this. But 100 times worse to live it. Except for "hang on tight" I just don't see anything else...

 

One thing's for sure: he is in the position to and has the capability to nail his wife in prison for a very long time.

[Fun2BMe]

Originally posted by Craig

Prior to this incident we were treated politely and with respect but now things have changed. Suddenly, seemingly as the result of this violent incident, we seem to have been embraced by them as genuine survivors of DV. My guess is that many of the women staffers just weren't sure if we men were for real even though nearly all of our wives had been arrested for DV. I guess having a client walk in all bandaged up after his wife tries to kill him in his sleep made it all real for them. Staff that never talked to us now stop to chit chat, go out of their way to help and etc. The difference is dramatic.

I think many, not all of course, female abusers attack their man because he did things that were very hurtful to her, like cheating or verbal abuse or as self defense if they were being beaten up. The staffers know this which is why they might have little pitty for their clients, but whose heart wouldn't go out to a man who was stabbed in his sleep?

 

For each male victim, I can't help but imagine first what he put his wife or girlfriend through and if he admits to others that he was a mean cheating person who drove his wife nuts until she physicall fought back. I know this isn't the case for all, including you Craig from what you have shared but it might help to explain why the 99% female staffers act the way you describe. Curly, I don't think it is a question of discrimination.

 

Whereas men beat because they are strong and want to put their woman in check or are ridiculously jealous for no reason or beat for minor issues, or because they are drunk or high or crazy, it takes A LOT more for a woman, who are more patient and put up with more and are 99% less physical and strong, to reach the point of losing it and I feel sorry for those women and can only imagine what hell they have been put through.

[Craig]

CurlyIam, thank you for your post. I'm not sure if it's a case of discrimination so much as an unconscious denial by the women staffers about the serious nature of woman on man domestic violence. Looking at it from their point of view it is possible to see how this might happen. Most of their clients are women that have suffered violent abuse at the hands of their male partners. For years now some people believed that a woman could not abuse or be violent towards a man. When that member of our group was slashed and stabbed I think all of the sudden these people woke up to the fact that this is real. That yes, men can be victims of serious violence from their female partners.

 

On what to wish the guy who got stabbed...well I don't know either. About the only thing I can think of is to be there to listed to his concerns, thoughts and yes, feelings. He certainly will have to "hang on tight", he is just starting to realize that he could have died and is on that emotional roller coaster--one minute feeling pity for his wife and the next not wanting to see her ever again. He thinks about their 5 month old son and worries about him not having a mother and then worries what kind of damage might be done to their son if she was in his life. It is going to be a rough ride but he is strong, loves his son with all his heart and will make it. :-)

 

Thankfully it is the state that is prosecuting her. He doesn't have the option of dropping the charges and actually had no say in whether she was arrested or charged.

 

I only wish that no one got hurt and no one would have to go to prison.

[Craig]

Fun2BMe, I appreciate your point of view, thank you.

 

I can't help but believe that what you write is not so much a thoughtful response after careful consideration but a reflex action borne out of the pain you've experienced from a relationship. When some people feel hurt in a relationship they tend to categorize people based on the gender or clothing or hair color, etc. that they associate with the person they believe hurt them.

 

I'm trying to understand your reasoning so I have a couple of questions for you.

 

Do you believe it is acceptable for women to be physically violent towards their male partners for reasons other than to protect themselves from imminent physical danger?

 

and

 

What are your opinions are regarding the dynamics of woman on woman domestic violence in lesbian relationships?

[Fun2BMe]

Originally posted by Craig

Fun2BMe, I appreciate your point of view, thank you.

and i appreciate yours. i know you disagree with me especially since you yourself are a victim so it is appreciated that you have chosen to have a discussion.

 

I can't help but believe that what you write is not so much a thoughtful response after careful consideration but a reflex action borne out of the pain you've experienced from a relationship. When some people feel hurt in a relationship they tend to categorize people based on the gender or clothing or hair color, etc. that they associate with the person they believe hurt them.

Like everyone else in the world, i too have been hurt but what I say is not reflexive but a combination of having been thought out, material i have read and things i have heard and seen.

 

It is hard for you to relate to how a woman can feel and not all have experienced deep hurt but i can relate to the women who out of such rage and hurt finally snap and take it out physically on their husband or boyfriend, usually in response to something bad or hurtful that they have done to them. i know your case is different and you had not done anything wrong to your wife but I acknowledge that there are cases like yours where the woman has no right to hit and maybe she is mentally ill.

 

Do you believe it is acceptable for women to be physically violent towards their male partners for reasons other than to protect themselves from imminent physical danger?

It is not acceptable but I can feel empathy and feel sorry for those women when they are responding to emotional pain and it is a result of men hurting them. I can't feel sorry for the men in those circumstances. But again, it depends on the reasons behind the behavior. I don't think it is wise to group things without looking at individual cases.

 

What are your opinions are regarding the dynamics of woman on woman domestic violence in lesbian relationships?

i have to admit that i have not heard or read anything on woman on woman domestic violence in lesbian relationships, have not thought about it and do not have an opinion. You could just as well ask men on men violence. All violence is bad, i like to look at each incident individually, but have a better understanding of women lashing out on men and therefore a stronger opinion on it. i'll have to get back to you on that one!

[Craig]

I thought I'd post an update for anyone that might benefit.

 

The guy that was slashed and stabbed by his wife did for a couple of weeks plan to get back together with his wife (she's still in jail) but decided that it was too dangerous to do so. He reasoned that she tried to kill him once and he couldn't ever feel safe with her again plus he didn't want their child to grow up in a violence filled home.

 

We have several new members in the support group. Both of them have had to call the police because of their wives and ultimately the wives were arrested because of domestic violence. I can see the new guys getting more and more comfortable with sharing their stories with the group. No one has to share anything they don't want to. Sometimes a guy will come in the group and just tell all and other times it takes time before they feel okay to talk about what happened at the hands of their abusive wives or girlfriends.

 

The gentleman in his 80's has always maintained that he would not leave his wife but just this last week he said in a very firm voice that if necessary he would leave her and divorce her. That was a bit of a shock because he would never ever consider leaving his wife before--he is the "you're dead a long time but married forever" kind of guy.

 

The pattern I am starting to see is that in the majority of cases the only peace to be found is for the survivor of domestic violence to leave the abuser permanently.

[A Fly onThe Wall]

Originally posted by Craig

The pattern I am starting to see is that in the majority of cases the only peace to be found is for the survivor of domestic violence to leave the abuser permanently.

 

Craig,

 

I think you are right about that..

 

Unless the abuser releases his/her dominance ,control, or their desire to gain control on the person they cannot get better.. Whether it be financial , emotional , physical ..

 

Isolation, Intimadation, Priviledge,Threats, Emotional abuse, Economic abuse, Sexual abuse, or using the children are the ways an abuser uses to control their victims..

 

It is a lot to change and most do not

[Craig]

Originally posted by A Fly onThe Wall

Unless the abuser releases his/her dominance ,control, or their desire to gain control on the person they cannot get better.

Control, perhaps, is at first glance an issue in abusive relationships. What follows is only my speculation that the abuser wants to control just as much as the survivor/victim.

 

Maybe fear brought about by insecurity is at the heart of wanting to control. Some undefined barely conscious or conscious insecurity leads to fear, fear might result in a fight or flight response but the problem is that there is nothing to fight or flee from. What else is a person who lacks the knowledge that they can't ever control anything to do but try to control their environment as relief from emotional pressure building up? Maybe a positive reinforcement cycle starts and the result is an uncontainable uncontrollable emotional outburst manifesting itself as abuse and victimization.

 

The abuser doesn't know why they abuse, but do if given opportunity admit it is wrong. The victim/survivor seems to play an important role in the cycle of abuse in that they might try to "make things better" and control their environment by "walking on egg shells", allowing their boundaries and limitations to be tread upon and etc. This only increases the emotional pressure within the abuser and does not provide a healthy release of the abusers insecurity in small amounts. This isn't to say that the victim/survivor is to blame for the abuse and this is because the abuser really does know better--what it says is that the victim/survivor plays an important part in the role of victim/survivor. Without the cooperation of someone to play the part of the victim/survivor the abuser would have no one to abuse. With a healthy outlet for emotional pressure arising from insecurity and fear maybe abusers wouldn't be abusers?

 

Once again this is just my lay speculation, I'm sure my point of view will change as I learn more. In the mean time I believe it's best to leave the a**h*** abuser to rot a hell of their own making.

[Fun2BMe]

I agree that leaving is probably the best solution. Usually it is stereotyped that women are the ones who stay and try to fix the person they're with, but I guess in some cases it's hard for men to leave too. I cannot imagine the fear that would be experienced by someone lying in bed overnight next to a human being who in the past tried to kill them.

 

I've never smoked but it's like a bad habbit that you have to stop cold turkey and move on with your life, maybe like going on a diet as difficult as it may be in the beginning. Maybe that old man in his 80's would experience peace and happiness for the balance of his life if he had the strength to leave his wife and life either alone or with a loving person instead of continuing to experience abuse. Maybe he would feel guilty and needs someone like you Craig to give him support to make that step in his life.

[Craig]

Originally posted by Fun2BMe

Maybe that old man in his 80's would experience peace and happiness for the balance of his life if he had the strength to leave his wife and life either alone or with a loving person instead of continuing to experience abuse. Maybe he would feel guilty and needs someone like you Craig to give him support to make that step in his life.

I am there to give him support but any decision he makes need to be his own, if and when he is ready. His wife is already in a court ordered one year program for abusers. She has been arrested twice now for domestic violence and spent some time in jail.

 

I am starting to see a pattern that the survivor/victim wants to make the relationship better, but in time comes to realize that the abuser usually refuses to make any changes and then an epiphany hits the survivor/victim (sometimes it hits hard) that they must leave not only for themself but for the sake of the abuser as well.

[jessica77]

hey craig,

I am so sorry to hear that you had a similar experience with domestic violence. There were some issues , that I needed advice on and wanted to discuss with you. As these are a bit sensitive, do you have an email I could mail you at?

Thanks a lot!

[tinktronik]

Craig, I applaude you for this post. I believe it's very important for men to speak out about abuse done by their wives and g/f to them.

For years growing up I watched as my mother physically attacked the men in her life. Very agressivly. Even pulling the trigger of a gun on one (it jammed). Then she would harm herself and by the time the police showed up , she'd harmed herself , and the man would be carted away to jail. over and over again.

Not to mention anytime a man actually tried to defend themselves, by hitting back. Ive heard people say you dont have to hit back... Ive seen this and yes sometimes you do have to hit back to get away.

It dident seem to matter what my mother did (even set ones car on fire in the driveway) they went to jail for it.

I have also had male friends who had wives that were abusive , and it seemed they also got the blame.

It relives me to hear that there are mens groups as victims of dv. I hope this group helps you , and others. I think as we move along and open our eyes we will realize that as many cases of domestic violence is purpotrated by women as is by men.

Thankyou Craig.

[tinktronik]

I forgot to add in my last post that by the time the men in my mothers lives finnaly left thier lives were severly damaged, with police charges of dv. This is rather hard to explain away.

[Craig]

hey craig,

I am so sorry to hear that you had a similar experience with domestic violence. There were some issues , that I needed advice on and wanted to discuss with you. As these are a bit sensitive, do you have an email I could mail you at?

Thanks a lot!

I'm not a professional and really only have a relatively small amount of experience compared to the counselors you'll find at a dv center. As for anything being sensitive, LS is full of people discussing sensitive topics.

 

You can PM me when the system allows you to PM. I think it is after a certain number of posts.