Love Must Be Tough!

[ConfusedInOC]

Love Must Be Tough - Dr. James Dobson

 

I highly recommend this book because it has certainly opened my eyes to everything I did wrong in my relationship. I had been blaming her, but really the fault was on me. This book did more for me than my therapist ever could by pinpointing everything that causes someone you care about to push away. What an eye-opener.

 

Pay attention kids, because I did every most of these wrong. These are common sense so apparently I don't have much, lol....

 

1. Love must be TOUGH (Anything that's easy to have it not valued)

2. Love must be CONFIDENT (Self respect, mutual respect)

3. Love must be FREE (Don't suffocate them, give them space)

4. You can not demand love in return (Just because you love them doesn't mean you can pressure them to love you)

5. Anyone you meet that you think "That's my future wife or future husband" you will most certainly never marry them.

6. Don't ever put someone in a "box." (confine them).

7. Every relationship that lasts one year or more will have at least one breakup. How you handle the crises will determine whether your relationship succeeds or fails. Remaining cool, calm and collected is the key. (uhh, it's called NO CONTACT!)

8. Do not expect them to meet every one of your emotional needs.

9. Guard against selfishness. Don't let one person do all the giving.

10. Beware blindness to obvious warning signs. Do not be blind to their faults.

11. Don't underestimate the power of your words. Do not marry the person you can live with, marry the person you can not live without.

12. Be careful to defend your "line of respect." (This was my major boo boo. I let her cross it too many times.)

13. Do not equate human worth with flawless physical perfection because they will do the same to you. Don't compare yourself to others.

14. If genuine love has escaped you so far, never believe no one will love you. That's a self-defeating attitude. There is always someone out there who will love you, you just need to find them.

15. Check your assumptions before you move to marriage. Make sure you both understand and agree in your future plans (ie: Children, work or stay at home, etc.)

 

I failed 13 of the 15 rules. Pathetic, I know, but at least now I understand what I did wrong and have the closure I so desperately needed. And armed with this new information and attitude, I will NEVER make the same mistakes again.

[Mary3]

One more......every relationship , that person needs an * exit out * so if you block their exit or don't allow them to have one at all.....is surely doomed because they will find a way out of it....whether you block the door or not.

[Jennifer'sSecret]

I thought you had decided that you were in a relationship, but she wasn't...so how do these rules apply?

[Tony]

I listened to Dr. Dobson's tape on the subject some years ago. Yes, he's right on target. However, I really don't know if you can just list a set of rules that, if followed, will lead to a great relationship. They are complicated. I just think they take two people who are absolutely right for each other and willing to work, forgive, love, understand, etc. When that happens, everything falls into place.

 

But the book you recommend is right on target. It's a great help to those who think they can be wimps and have love survive. Love is for the tough, love is for those who are willing to go to battle for it. Only fifty percent survive. Many of the others are DOA.

[johan]

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC

...

7. Every relationship that lasts one year or more will have at least one breakup.

...

 

My goal will be to only have relationships that last less than a year then. So I'll never have to go through anymore breakups. I hate breaking up.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by Mary3

One more......every relationship , that person needs an * exit out * so if you block their exit or don't allow them to have one at all.....is surely doomed because they will find a way out of it....whether you block the door or not.

 

That's what #6 means.

 

 

Originally posted by Tony

I listened to Dr. Dobson's tape on the subject some years ago. Yes, he's right on target. However, I really don't know if you can just list a set of rules that, if followed, will lead to a great relationship. They are complicated. I just think they take two people who are absolutely right for each other and willing to work, forgive, love, understand, etc. When that happens, everything falls into place.

 

But the book you recommend is right on target. It's a great help to those who think they can be wimps and have love survive. Love is for the tough, love is for those who are willing to go to battle for it. Only fifty percent survive. Many of the others are DOA.

 

Agreed. It's not just following a set of rules, but it's knowing when to apply them and fighting for what you want. I fought VERY hard to keep my Ex but the problem was I didn't know the rules of the game. Had I known then what I know now, I wouldn't be here.

 

Hopefully this information enlightens some people who need to understand the game of love. Yes, I said game. As much as I hate to admit it, that's exactly what it is. And I was playing without a ball, bat and glove for many years. Now that I am properly suited up, at least I am on even ground.

 

There's someone out there for me. And when I find her, I'll be ready to play ball.

[BigB]

tag

[Artscrafter]

Originally posted by johan

My goal will be to only have relationships that last less than a year then. So I'll never have to go through anymore breakups. I hate breaking up.

Okay, then you have less than a year from the start of the first one of those to figure out how to end it other than by breaking up.

 

Seriously, though, that's a good list there. I'm wondering about rule 5 though.

5. Anyone you meet that you think "That's my future wife or future husband" you will most certainly never marry them.

Thoughts of marriage on the first impression? Or simply strongly wanting to marry the person? Or even just having marriage cross one's mind fairly soon? What's the boundary on this one?

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by Artscrafter

Seriously, though, that's a good list there. I'm wondering about rule 5 though.

Thoughts of marriage on the first impression? Or simply strongly wanting to marry the person? Or even just having marriage cross one's mind fairly soon? What's the boundary on this one?

 

If you go into the relationship thinking "I will marry this person..." you will most assuredly break every one of the rules.

 

Read through them and you'll begin to see that breaking rule #5 will make the relationship unequally yoked. It's doomed to fail before it even started.

 

Marriage shouldn't be a thought for the first several months of the relationship because you will not even have known that person well enough of thinking of marriage too soon skews your judgement of them in many respects.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC

I failed 13 of the 15 rules.

...and your point is what??? that you've learned something. I doubt it cause you're still self-deprecating.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by alphamale

...and your point is what???

 

I said what my point was....I shoulder most of the blame for things failing.

 

Even with NC, I don't think she's coming back. But the good thing is I learned what I did, have a lot to learn and plenty of opportunity to love again....

[alphamale]

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC

But the good thing is I learned what I did, have a lot to learn and plenty of opportunity to love again....

well sorry COC, but you cannot learn this sheeyot in a few wks. it takes yrs and sometimes decades and we are all on different time-tables and schedules. It took me 20 yrs to know what I know about women now. When I was 23 or 24 I could not even talk to a beautiful woman without tossing my cookies. The thought of a female scared the living daylites out of me.

 

But I learned and I applied what I learned over last 15 yrs and I do OK now. You don't learn this stuff in a few days man. What are you like 33 or something? It will take u 10 yrs before you fulfill your goal, at minimum. But you can do it, its not a big deal.

[moimeme]

What are you like 33 or something? It will take u 10 yrs before you fulfill your goal, at minimum.

 

Oh pishtosh. Not everyone's a slow learner

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by alphamale

well sorry COC, but you cannot learn this sheeyot in a few wks. it takes yrs and sometimes decades and we are all on different time-tables and schedules. It took me 20 yrs to know what I know about women now. When I was 23 or 24 I could not even talk to a beautiful woman without tossing my cookies. The thought of a female scared the living daylites out of me.

 

Well sorry Alpha, but I don't lack self confidence and I can easily walk up to any woman and ask them out. It's when I am in love that I let my heart override my head and make bad decisions. This is something that is etched in my brain and not easily forgotten. It only takes getting burned by someone you love deeply ONE TIME before you learn it.

 

But I learned and I applied what I learned over last 15 yrs and I do OK now. You don't learn this stuff in a few days man. What are you like 33 or something? It will take u 10 yrs before you fulfill your goal, at minimum. But you can do it, its not a big deal.

 

Alpha, when you burn your hand on a stove, don't you learn not to touch a burner? In this case, my heart was burned and I learned some very valuable lessons. The thing is, my mind had been searching for answers. And now that I have them, I am not saying I will not stumble occasionally. It's just that I won't let myself fall.

 

This experience will burn in my mind for the rest of my life....and I will never repeat these mistakes again.

[alphamale]

Originally posted by ConfusedInOC

Well sorry Alpha, but I don't lack self confidence and I can easily walk up to any woman and ask them out. It's when I am in love that I let my heart override my head and make bad decisions.

well COC that is where u and i differ. I have much more trouble approacing women and asking them out, but.....when I do get in a relationship or fall in love I always keep my own identy and make my needs first. I usually don't let women walk over me cause you know what, I really think I am better than all of them and if they don't wanna be with me then f*** them! I guess that is why I usually do the dumping ( not always though). There are maybe 3 or 4 women in my life that really go to my heart and I must give them kudos cause it prob was not easy

 

 

Alpha, when you burn your hand on a stove, don't you learn not to touch a burner?

depends on how bad the burn is....ever go to a restaurant and the waiter brings your dish and they say "don't touch the plate, it's hot". dont' you always touch it after the waiter leaves just to see how hot it is? I do.

[lindya]

There are definitely different kinds of self confidence. The type you need in order to chat up someone you fancy is obviously important if things are to get off the ground. To actually sustain a relationship that feels right for both parties, I think you also need to have that confidence to look inwards and face up to things about yourself that you might not be too impressed by. Not to beat yourself up, but purely to say "ok, I probably did screw up a bit there. I'll try not to do that again."

 

Then again, it's very easy to screw up when you're in a relationship with the wrong person. I doubt very much, CIOCC, that you shoulder most of the blame for your relationship breaking down. Those 15 rules you mentioned sound like common sense, but it also strikes me that failure - or apparent failure - to follow those rules is often symptomatic of the relationship not being right in the first place.

 

I often worry about my own tendency to need a LOT of space, and I've been in a number of relationships (romantic ones and just friendships) where I felt uncomfortably crowded at times. Then I met someone else who was equally fond of his space. It seemed to work well, initially, but after a while I found myself accused by him of being overly dependent etc. This was a criticism he had levelled at his previous girlfriend too, and having (foolishly) formed an opinion of her based on what he had told me, I felt horrified to find myself boxed into the same category. After the relationship broke down and I spoke to a couple of male friends about it, they told me that my alleged dependence on him had been his fantasy rather than the actual reality of the situation. Viewing everyone else on the planet - particularly anyone he got into a relationship with - as being overly clingy, possessive and dependent maybe encouraged his belief that he was a uniquely independent free-spirit. What I really learned from that situation is that in the past, I've done exactly the same.

 

CIOCC, I don't know you and I don't know your ex-girlfriend, but I think when you come out of a relationship feeling bad about yourself, it's often useful to think not so much about who your ex IS, but who they IMAGINE themselves to be. People have a funny habit of putting you into a box if that's what it takes to feel better about themselves. You don't necessarily need to stay in that box - and though it's a good idea to have some sort of reference point for relationships, you don't necessarily need to paint yourself as someone whose last relationship broke down because he didn't follow the 15 rules. Shoulder that level of blame, and there's a risk that your next girlfriend will exploit it to the hilt.

[moimeme]

Then again, it's very easy to screw up when you're in a relationship with the wrong person. I doubt very much, CIOCC, that you shoulder most of the blame for your relationship breaking down. Those 15 rules you mentioned sound like common sense, but it also strikes me that failure - or apparent failure - to follow those rules is often symptomatic of the relationship not being right in the first place.

 

Agree totally. If someone really loves you, you don't have to walk on eggshells worrying if you're doing the 'right thing' or 'playing the game'. In fact, one of the signs that someone loves you is that she accepts you and the fact that you aren't perfect.

 

People are going about this breakup stuff all wrong, IMHO. Yes, be sure you're the kind of partner that you would want to be with so if you're selfish, fix it. If you're not thoughtful, fix that, etc. but if you're a decent and good human and you treat your loved ones well, then the loved one who rejects you does so because of his or her own issues so to then try to change or reform yourself is a big mistake.

 

Now you said you're very moody and that's hard to live with - but like I said above, you need to be the person you'd want to live with so if you wouldn't want to live with someone with high highs and low lows, understand that others won't either and try to do something about that. But unless you were horrid to her, it wasn't your fault she ditched you. And absorbing lists of 'rules' won't help you.

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by alphamale

well COC that is where u and i differ. I have much more trouble approacing women and asking them out, but.....when I do get in a relationship or fall in love I always keep my own identy and make my needs first. I usually don't let women walk over me cause you know what, I really think I am better than all of them and if they don't wanna be with me then f*** them! I guess that is why I usually do the dumping ( not always though). There are maybe 3 or 4 women in my life that really go to my heart and I must give them kudos cause it prob was not easy

 

Well I will not subscribe to the idea I am "better" than them, I will subscribe to the notion that I am worth their time and if they don't agree, then they are free to walk. No more over-pursuing by me.

 

depends on how bad the burn is....ever go to a restaurant and the waiter brings your dish and they say "don't touch the plate, it's hot". dont' you always touch it after the waiter leaves just to see how hot it is? I do.

 

But you understand my analogy, correct? I got 3rd degree burns from this experience and I will NEVER let someone walk all over me again like that.

 

I've drawn my "line of respect...."

[ConfusedInOC]

Originally posted by moimeme

Agree totally. If someone really loves you, you don't have to walk on eggshells worrying if you're doing the 'right thing' or 'playing the game'. In fact, one of the signs that someone loves you is that she accepts you and the fact that you aren't perfect.

 

I know she loved me. But I also know I boxed her in, suffocated her and didn't leave her an escape. When someone who isn't ready to be married yet (ie: She isn't done growing up) is caged like that, it's easy to see why they want to run away.

 

In addition, I let her cross the line of respect many times. The one time I didn't, she nearly fell over herself trying to win me back. And instead of continuing to hold that line, I let her cross it again.

 

I understand what you both are saying and I agree, at this time, it just wasn't right. Perhaps if she was grown up a bit and I learned to play the game a little better, it might have worked out. Or maybe not, who knows?

 

The fact is, it didn't and I realize now how I need to handle myself the next time I fall in love.

[Jadey]

How would you apply these to get your ex back or interested?

[Marshbear]

I disagree that love must be tough. Love is a state of the heart and it is kind, caring, obedient, selfless, non-threatening, non-jealous. Your situation was that the person you loved did not love you enough and she took advantage of you. There is a difference in loving and being a door-mat. If you truly love you do not want to hurt your love in any way and you want their happiness more than your own. I think your focus of being tough and not being a door-mat is fine when finding the person you want but when you love them you can not be a door-mat.

 

The key is to have mutual love not the one-sided kind.

 

Peace...

[Fun2BMe]

Originally posted by Marshbear

but when you love them you can not be a door-mat.

 

The key is to have mutual love not the one-sided kind.

How can you avoid being a door-mat?

[lindya]

Originally posted by Marshbear

Love is a state of the heart and it is kind, caring, obedient, selfless, non-threatening, non-jealous.

Peace...

 

....As Harry told Sally, before he sauntered off for a platonic drink with the ladyfriend he was screwing behind her back.

 

Love might be all those things if you're a saint, but few of us are.

[Marshbear]

You cannot be a door-mat to someone that you truly love and who truly loves you. There is no key. You will place their happiness above your own and also their wants. As I said the key is to find the one that you know will do anything for you and you for them. Love is selfless and cannot be taken advantage of. If you think you are a door-mat, they don't respect you, then they don't truly love you.

 

True love is illusive and rare but it is out there. You have to date a lot of frogs to find the "one".

 

Peace...

[d'Arthez]

Originally posted by Marshbear

If you truly love you do not want to hurt your love in any way and you want their happiness more than your own. .

If you are in love with someone, your happiness is a result of you making them happy, in short of being happy yourself. And it is hard work, as love does not make issues and problems disappear. For true happiness you have to be able to become aware of yourself without any fear. A feat, which but few people accomplish.

 

True love is illusive and rare but it is out there. You have to date a lot of frogs to find the "one".

 

Nonsense. It depends on your own character and integrity, how many people you have to date. I don't believe in the whole nonsensical romantic idea that there is but one person who "completes" you. I'd rather say "finishes" you. Love for one person presupposes already a love for humanity.