katielee Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 (edited) This weekend we visited hubby's family and I got some clarity on some of my issues. I have dug and dug and gotten close, and had pieces revealed, but nothing like this.. MIL was a OCD hoarder. When FIL died last spring she never went back to the farm, got a new apartment and new furniture. We visited her and the place is nice, she is not hoarding - just a very nice apartment. FIL died with a lot of money in the bank, enough to bulldoze the farm (and they lived in a shack not fit to inhabit and may have had something to do with his death) and build her a new house, which she ALWAYS wanted but he said no. I think she PA filled it up with crap because there was a power struggle between them. Now, that is over and she can do what she wants. No need to fight him about things. I saw SO MANY similarities in that situation with hubby and me. And it was one of the reasons for my affair - because I felt powerless. Don't get me wrong, all I had to do was say, "I feel powerless" but I apparently assumed he could read my mind and I didn't even give him a chance! But I remember visiting his siblings and being so jealous - not because they had nice things - but because the women got to make the decisions in an equal manner. I was PA too!! So now that I have my own money because I work, he has lightened the purse strings (he is anally frugal) and we don't have kid expenses, I have some power in how we spend money. And you know, I might have said to him, "I want to spend money this way," (actually I think I did but he said no and that was the end of it) but my abandonment issues raised their ugly head and didn't want to rock the boat of not doing things his way because of my fear of him leaving me. I haven't told him this yet but I will. It makes me think that we had our affairs for very different reasons... but I guess resentment is a common theme. Edited October 15, 2015 by katielee added a sentence 1 Link to post Share on other sites
m.snow Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 communication... communication... not everyone is a mind reader say your mind. your married you have a right to say your mind. you have to say whats in you mind. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
JohnAdams Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I certainly agree that all or at least most ws's have a reason or excuse to why they had an affair. I would also agree that resentment is a common reason, along with unhappiness, or other emotional reasons. The part that would continually worry me with any of these types of excuses is what happens the next time resentment occurs? What happens the next time a marriage hits a low spot? I worried for years, what happens the next time she is unhappy? It is good to do some soul searching. To know yourself better to prevent future bad choices. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
Author katielee Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 well, we kind of had a conversation about something I wanted to buy that he didn't. I wanted a power washer. He is good with using the neighbors. We disagreed but I said ok. I refused to let resentment build. If I start, I will tell him I feel un listened to and present my case and we still may disagree, but at least I'll have told him. Link to post Share on other sites
fellini Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 You make it sound like you made a choice to act out on your resentment. So, is that what it is then? Resentment? Maybe you were jealous about something, so that was it: jealousy? Power, resentment, jealousy, anger, revenge, entitlement ... Can one actually get closer to knowing the why the further one gets away from the moment when a decision was made/not made to just throw oneself into a situation without needing a reason to do so other than the pure desire to do it? I think it would be great if my WW continued to find her why. But we both know that she threw herself at a man that she found desirable and who showed no reluctance to say the same. As a man, im not interested in the why, I find it almost clear that there was none. No world shattering why, but obviously why HIM: because he presented himself and it stuck. 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Author katielee Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 I think I made a choice to act out my resentment, but I didn't know what it would be at that time. "Power, resentment, jealousy, anger, revenge, entitlement ... " all these things combined - yes, plus anxiety. "Can one actually get closer to knowing the why the further one gets away from the moment when a decision was made/not made" I think one can - in fact, I think with time there comes more clarity, as one looks back on life, experiences, and work done on self. I think the WHY is important to some degree. Because I never wanna go back there. Not that I'd cheat, but that I'd be in a position that is not healthy. I would never let resentment, anger and jealousy get that big again, even though I wouldn't use A as a coping mechanism, I'd dive right in to see what was going on and communicate. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I think sometimes people cannot (or just won't) make the distinction between reasons and excuses. Of COURSE there is no excuse for an affair. But only a fool would not explore the reasoning. And identifying the reasoning doesn't mean one thinks it was a valid reason to cheat. In fact, I would posit that the FIRST step to making sure it doesn't happen next time IS understanding the reasoning. Sometimes I think we are all so terrified of giving WS an "excuse," we purposely ignore the fact that most people do everything they do for some sort of reason, and understanding it is useful in choosing differently next time. I see katielee's epiphany as progress and healing and important information to keep her M safe in the future. 5 Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 well, we kind of had a conversation about something I wanted to buy that he didn't. I wanted a power washer. He is good with using the neighbors. We disagreed but I said ok. I refused to let resentment build. If I start, I will tell him I feel un listened to and present my case and we still may disagree, but at least I'll have told him. katie, do you have a system in place wherein you both get to make some purchases for yourself, without the approval of the other? I think a power washer could fall under that sort of purchase: a gift to yourself with your discretionary money. Why don't you simply budget your own money and buy it for yourself? Link to post Share on other sites
Author katielee Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 katie, do you have a system in place wherein you both get to make some purchases for yourself, without the approval of the other? I think a power washer could fall under that sort of purchase: a gift to yourself with your discretionary money. Why don't you simply budget your own money and buy it for yourself? yes, we do. I'd rather buy other things than a power washer so I just let that one go... Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 yes, we do. I'd rather buy other things than a power washer so I just let that one go... Ok, but why, then, is it in your mind he is keeping you from having a power washer? Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 Ok, but why, then, is it in your mind he is keeping you from having a power washer? I would suspect that she has an "allowance" that she has to stay within, and she was hoping that the power washer would be a household joint expense (which any rational person would agree with) so that her "allowance" could be spent on something that actually was more personal. I've seen this dynamic before. And it sheds some light on why he felt entitled to have TWO affairs to her one. Link to post Share on other sites
Author katielee Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 he isn't... I just let him make that decision. I can't have everything I WANT, I suggested we may need one, he disagreed, decided ok, he's kinda in charge of outside house mainentance, I'll let him make that decision. Today, I'm buying a new vacuum cleaner for the lake house. I asked him yesterday what he thought - should we get a new one, lug ours up there everytime we go, or take the one in the garage. He said he didnt think the one in the garage worked that great. But that's all he said. So, I just decided to buy a new one. Link to post Share on other sites
Author katielee Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 I would suspect that she has an "allowance" that she has to stay within, and she was hoping that the power washer would be a household joint expense (which any rational person would agree with) so that her "allowance" could be spent on something that actually was more personal. I've seen this dynamic before. And it sheds some light on why he felt entitled to have TWO affairs to her one. well, this is interesting. What dynamic? What am I missing? Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I'm suggesting that you back up and look at the power struggle from a different perspective. The discretionary money is your power. Is it sufficient? Or can you, as a couple, afford to spend more? As a couple, you can afford what you can afford. You may have different ideas about that amt, and that's a discussion to have. It's crazy, imo, to be hashing out individual purchases this way. I can't imagine. There must be a way to set up the finances that eliminates the power struggle. You should have your own account to save or spend as you desire. If your "wants" exceed your acct, and your acct is reasonable based on the what the household can affort, then it is the budget saying no....not him. What I'm really saying here is, instead of spending decades in the same power struggle, why not find a better approach? Link to post Share on other sites
Author katielee Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 I'm suggesting that you back up and look at the power struggle from a different perspective. The discretionary money is your power. Is it sufficient? Or can you, as a couple, afford to spend more? As a couple, you can afford what you can afford. You may have different ideas about that amt, and that's a discussion to have. It's crazy, imo, to be hashing out individual purchases this way. I can't imagine. I just don't see this. We talk about purchases, not everything but most things big. I see it as communicating. We just bought a second home, are doing renovations on it, and before we decided to do that I bought an expensive couch. So, we are kind of watching our purchases now. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 You framed this discussion as you maybe needing to present your case to prevent resentment from building. Now you are backing off and saying that the two of you can't afford it right now (and that sounds pretty reasonable given the details). Is it possible you might be "stuck" in a pattern of power struggle where there is no struggle? Link to post Share on other sites
BetrayedH Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I certainly agree that all or at least most ws's have a reason or excuse to why they had an affair. I would also agree that resentment is a common reason, along with unhappiness, or other emotional reasons. The part that would continually worry me with any of these types of excuses is what happens the next time resentment occurs? What happens the next time a marriage hits a low spot? I worried for years, what happens the next time she is unhappy? It is good to do some soul searching. To know yourself better to prevent future bad choices. To me, I think the "why" has less to do with why you (general) might have had an affair but more to do with why you didn't make a healthier choice. If it was resentment, why not insist upon resolving the resentment? I think in most cases of resentment, the question becomes something akin to, "Why was I so conflict-avoidant that I chose an affair instead of talking/MC/an ultimatum/separation/divorce?" As John aptly notes, resentment may predictably occur again in your marriage. So perhaps the more relevant issue is determining why an affair was your "go to" coping mechanism and how you can avoid that pattern from repeating. To his point, I also think your introspection is a great thing so I applaud it. I wish your H was the same. Sadly, I don't think he'll want to hear one word of this. Link to post Share on other sites
Author katielee Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 You framed this discussion as you maybe needing to present your case to prevent resentment from building. Now you are backing off and saying that the two of you can't afford it right now (and that sounds pretty reasonable given the details). Is it possible you might be "stuck" in a pattern of power struggle where there is no struggle? if I think somethings really important, believe me, I'll present it. Power washer - not important. Link to post Share on other sites
Author katielee Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 To his point, I also think your introspection is a great thing so I applaud it. I wish your H was the same. Sadly, I don't think he'll want to hear one word of this. I don't care. I'm saying it. But yeah, he probably won't. but it might explain how I acted way back when when I got jealous. Link to post Share on other sites
BetrayedH Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 I also want a power washer. And I'm actively building up resentment toward my checking account over it. 4 Link to post Share on other sites
Author katielee Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 As John aptly notes, resentment may predictably occur again in your marriage. So perhaps the more relevant issue is determining why an affair was your "go to" coping mechanism and how you can avoid that pattern from repeating. i have never been in as much pain as I was in as a BS. I didn't choose affair to cope. I realize other options, such as divorce, are available and healthier. 2 Link to post Share on other sites
autumnnight Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 well, this is interesting. What dynamic? What am I missing? I read the washer scenario and surrounding stuff as him seeming to give you freedom....but not really. Kind of like the benevolent dictator style of leadership. Someone who is really good at it can dictate in such a way that the other person doesn't realize they are being dictated. So if you have your own "discretionary fund" but he still nixes things or won't agree to household/general things....that would be a sign of pretending to give you autonomy, but not really. It is hard to spot, but the longer you observe a man's words or actions, the easier it is to pick up on. I almost married someone like that. He treated me like a queen....but it was very clear that everything would be his way and nothing would ever be his fault. Link to post Share on other sites
xxoo Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 if I think somethings really important, believe me, I'll present it. Power washer - not important. You're missing my point. This was the example you gave: the power washer. It seems to me that the two of you discussed and decided not to buy it based on the budget and other purchases, but you came out of that conversation feeling like he vetoed it and that you'd have to plead your case in the future. In the future, when the budget has room, probably you'd discuss and simply buy it. And if not, you could buy it with your discretionary money. Where is the need for a power struggle? Link to post Share on other sites
Author katielee Posted October 15, 2015 Author Share Posted October 15, 2015 I read the washer scenario and surrounding stuff as him seeming to give you freedom....but not really. Kind of like the benevolent dictator style of leadership. Someone who is really good at it can dictate in such a way that the other person doesn't realize they are being dictated. So if you have your own "discretionary fund" but he still nixes things or won't agree to household/general things....that would be a sign of pretending to give you autonomy, but not really. It is hard to spot, but the longer you observe a man's words or actions, the easier it is to pick up on. I almost married someone like that. He treated me like a queen....but it was very clear that everything would be his way and nothing would ever be his fault. well, I would think this but I'm buying the vacuum cleaner and I bought the couch and said, "we're getting this. hope you like it." 1 Link to post Share on other sites
Mrs. John Adams Posted October 15, 2015 Share Posted October 15, 2015 i have never been in as much pain as I was in as a BS. I didn't choose affair to cope. I realize other options, such as divorce, are available and healthier. This is the part of your story that screams at me every time you post it. I too am a betrayed spouse as well as a wayward spouse....and i can tell you that the pain i feel for the pain i caused my betrayed spouse is 100 fold the pain i feel as a betrayed. I am not saying you are wrong....you feel what you feel....but i do NOT understand it. Link to post Share on other sites
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