the WHY - 6.5 years later

[autumnnight]

They aren't saying it's a justified response or excuse.

 

But it does explain the mindset and the impulse some have to engage in revenge affairs.

 

Some things in life are difficult to understand. Revenge affairs are not one of them. It's a fairly simply action-reaction (both wrong). Why did he choose cheating rather than other reactions? I don't know. But he was definitely going to react.

 

So if betrayal by cheating is the one understandable reason to cheat.....then what about betrayal by financial infidelity or betrayal by starvation (violating I Cor 7), betrayal by addiction and that kind of deceit.

 

My ex used to do this: "I'm sorry I reacted so badly to YOUR issue."

 

That is not taking responsibility.

 

Saying" I'm sorry I cheated because you cheated first" is NOT taking responsibility.

 

This is simple. If there is no justification for cheating, and if we are NEVER allowed to explain "why"....then using "they did it first" as why isn't kosher either.

[Mrs. John Adams]

understanding something or someone does not mean approval

 

I understand the logic in a lot of things...but i don't necessarily agree with them.

[autumnnight]

understanding something or someone does not mean approval

 

I understand the logic in a lot of things...but i don't necessarily agree with them.

 

I do too. And actually, I can understand the RA logic.

 

But think about it....EVERY time a WS comes here and even MENTIONS an abusive spouse, a sexless marriage, addiction, etc. in their marriage, they get hit with "you're rewriting history" and "if it was that bad leave."

 

So my take is that to be consistent, the response to a cheating spouse is" if the betrayal was that bad, leave. Consistency would dictate that we NOT bash some excuses and accept others.

[katielee]

I do too. And actually, I can understand the RA logic.

 

 

So my take is that to be consistent, the response to a cheating spouse is" if the betrayal was that bad, leave. Consistency would dictate that we NOT bash some excuses and accept others.

 

Yep. 10 characters

[BetrayedH]

I do too. And actually, I can understand the RA logic.

 

But think about it....EVERY time a WS comes here and even MENTIONS an abusive spouse, a sexless marriage, addiction, etc. in their marriage, they get hit with "you're rewriting history" and "if it was that bad leave."

 

So my take is that to be consistent, the response to a cheating spouse is" if the betrayal was that bad, leave. Consistency would dictate that we NOT bash some excuses and accept others.

 

I'm not sure there's anyone here that disagrees with you. The correct response to being unhappy in a marriage is to fix it or leave it. That includes those of us that made the poor decision to have a RA. And I think all of us benefit from digging into our personal "why."

 

Katie is trying to understand her personal "why." Good work. I was also delving into her husband's personal "why." No one here is claiming to be better than anyone else.

[autumnnight]

I'm not sure there's anyone here that disagrees with you. The correct response to being unhappy in a marriage is to fix it or leave it. That includes those of us that made the poor decision to have a RA. And I think all of us benefit from digging into our personal "why."

 

Katie is trying to understand her personal "why." Good work. I was also delving into her husband's personal "why." No one here is claiming to be better than anyone else.

 

I completely agree with this. Digging into the why within is important. That was what impressed me about katielee's OP. She wasn't digging into the "why he made me", she was digging into the "why I thought this way and reacted that way." Internal work rather than external. I think that is vital. Because just like not everyone reacts to the external stimulus of a sexless marriage by cheating, not everyone reacts to the external stimulus of infidelity by cheating themselves.

 

It is much more profitable to fix myself than to identify what someone else did that "made" me do X.

[Mrs. John Adams]

I do too. And actually, I can understand the RA logic.

 

But think about it....EVERY time a WS comes here and even MENTIONS an abusive spouse, a sexless marriage, addiction, etc. in their marriage, they get hit with "you're rewriting history" and "if it was that bad leave."

 

So my take is that to be consistent, the response to a cheating spouse is" if the betrayal was that bad, leave. Consistency would dictate that we NOT bash some excuses and accept others.

 

There are "reasons" for everything we do...underlying circumstances that form who we are and the choices we make.

 

I chose to have an affair...the responsibility of that decision rests solely on my shoulders.

 

John chose to have a response affair....the responsibility of that decisions rest solely on his shoulders.

 

There are certain posters here and on other forums...who want the above statements to come from the mouths of the cheater....and then they want no more...no further explanation, no excuses, no reasons......

 

While i understand that....I will also point out...that every decision we make in life is because of something else. You cannot make a decision without that decision being born from another life experience.

 

We are a culmination of life experiences.

 

Had i not cheated...it is highly likely john would not have cheated. John's decisions to cheat was based on the life experience that i cheated. He still made that decision....and my cheating does not VALIDATE what he did.....but it certainly contributed to the CAUSE-EFFECT.

 

I was unhappy with myself....opportunity presented itself for me to cheat....I chose to cheat. In my mind...my unhappiness gave me just cause to cheat.

 

No blame shifting....just explanation as to where my mind was at the time. No but's...no pointing fingers.

 

You are right Autumn....I have seen it done a million times......and what is fair for one is fair for the other....

 

I can only answer for our case....We both accept responsibility for our actions and it does not matter if others think we do or don't. At the end of the day...we are satisfied.

 

Katielee has made a statement above that dismisses everything else.

She is happy....regardless of what i think....she is happy. End of story.

 

If Katielee is happy...I am happy for her.

[autumnnight]

While i understand that....I will also point out...that every decision we make in life is because of something else. You cannot make a decision without that decision being born from another life experience.

 

We are a culmination of life experiences.

 

You understand this because you are not afraid to. You realize that it is possible to take full responsibility for one's actions AND understand the surrounding circumstances.

 

That is one reason why you and Mr. John have recovered so well. You haven't chosen to be blind to certain things.

[nightmare01]

By your own admission...you have never had an RA...and have never been a WS...therefore to say that a WS never feels the same level of pain and betrayal as the BS is purely speculation on your part. First of all measuring pain is very difficult.....I can measure the pain i feel against other pain i feel because i have suffered both. But to say my pain is worse than your pain is ridiculous. I am not you....Infidelity pain is not a contest of who suffers the most...unfortunately all of us who have suffered infidelity...have pain.

 

I apologize for generalizing; I meant no offense to anyone. And you're right I have no actual experience with having an affair or a revenge affair.

 

Are there WS out there that hurt just as much or more than the person they betrayed? It's possible, so I imagine that they are out there, and Mrs. A is probably one. That said, I've been on infidelity related forums for years, and I personally know several WS, and through many one on one conversations my observation is that they are not hurting as badly as they person they betrayed. That's just my personal observation though.

 

Most WS that do not leave their BS to run off with their AP, they do feel some remorse. They feel bad, and there is some shame and pain that goes with what they did. They see the pain of their BS, and knowing that they inflicted this wound on them, they feel guilt and through that they feel pain.

 

My personal observation though, is that the WS I have spoken to do not feel the same level of soul crushing anguish and self-doubt that their BS experience.

 

It's true that it's hard to quantify pain. Which hurts more, hitting your thumb or index finger with a hammer? That's hard to say. However, which hurts more getting hit with a hammer or deliberately hitting someone with a hammer? I'm sorry, but I'll go with being hit by one hurts worse.

 

My WW once tried telling me that she feels the same level of pain that I do. The problem with her argument is that she claims that she forgets about OM and her affair completely, until I bring it up, whereas I think about her affair daily. Her affair altered my life and changed my entire perspective on the world, I don’t see the same effect on her at all. When my WW said that to me, I told her I would swap places with her in a hot minute, and that she has NO idea of the pain I still suffer every single day.

 

So I guess my point is that while there are WS out there that feel the same level of pain that their BS experiences, my observations inform me that they are rare.

 

Congratulations to those WS who do reach that level of empathy, and at the same time I’m sorry they have to feel that agony. My heart goes out to them.

[nightmare01]

There are "reasons" for everything we do...underlying circumstances that form who we are and the choices we make.

 

I chose to have an affair...the responsibility of that decision rests solely on my shoulders.

 

John chose to have a response affair....the responsibility of that decisions rest solely on his shoulders.

 

There are certain posters here and on other forums...who want the above statements to come from the mouths of the cheater....and then they want no more...no further explanation, no excuses, no reasons......

 

While i understand that....I will also point out...that every decision we make in life is because of something else. You cannot make a decision without that decision being born from another life experience.

 

We are a culmination of life experiences.

 

Had i not cheated...it is highly likely john would not have cheated. John's decisions to cheat was based on the life experience that i cheated. He still made that decision....and my cheating does not VALIDATE what he did.....but it certainly contributed to the CAUSE-EFFECT.

 

I was unhappy with myself....opportunity presented itself for me to cheat....I chose to cheat. In my mind...my unhappiness gave me just cause to cheat.

 

No blame shifting....just explanation as to where my mind was at the time. No but's...no pointing fingers.

 

You are right Autumn....I have seen it done a million times......and what is fair for one is fair for the other....

 

I can only answer for our case....We both accept responsibility for our actions and it does not matter if others think we do or don't. At the end of the day...we are satisfied.

 

Katielee has made a statement above that dismisses everything else.

She is happy....regardless of what i think....she is happy. End of story.

 

If Katielee is happy...I am happy for her.

 

I have a problem with the notion of determinism (which is what you are talking about) because the idea of one thing leads to another takes away the notion of person choice and responsibility.

 

Some physicists believe that the entire structure of the universe, and all the decisions people make can be explained simply by applying Newtons Laws of Motion.

 

My WW said that she had her affair because I worked too much.

Well, I could say I worked so much because she was demanding.

She could say she was demanding because of something her parent did.

...

 

on and on this can go.. all the way back to the big bang. So my WW had her affair because one molecule of Hydrogen bounced off another molecule of Hydrogen moments after the Big Bang?

 

I'm sorry... I'm not buying it.

[Mrs. John Adams]

And you are certainly entitled to have your opinion...

 

I am finished with this thread.

 

Katielee is happy...

 

That's all that counts.