Pain won't go away

[Marc878]

Marc, I know they lie and she has plenty but I actully spoke to the OM. I texted him and he texted me back, so I know that she told his wife. He said he hadn't spoken to my wife in a year--texts that I saw seem to back that up. Obviously this doesn't seem to matter much. It looks like the overwhelming consensus is that I am an idiot for staying and that if I have any dignity and self respect left that I need to leave. I really do get that and understand that--maybe I don't have any of those things left. Deep down I have made up my mind to leave but I just can't do that to the kids right before the holidays. I want them to at least enjoy one last christmas without knowing there are big problems coming. I am not the pope but maybe I am too nice for my own damn good. EVERYONE--I appreciate all of your advice and help and believe it or not, I have told people in my position the exact same things but now that I am in this spot, it seems much harder to take action. As I have said before, I AM A MESS! This is therapeutic though in many ways to just be able to vent and discuss these things. Sometimes it helps and sometimes it hurts more.

 

The situation you are in is very difficult. It's not going to be easy no matter what road you take. Plus it won't be over quickly.

 

The thing I've seen is most will put off dealing with a problem thinking it'll just go away. It won't!

 

Your life is what you will make of it. You cannot fix her only yourself.

 

You need a plan and a timeline or this will just drag on. Some end up wasting years doing nothing and just taking what life gives them.

 

Think long and hard about what you want. Then figure out how you get there. It'll be hard but at least you'll have an idea of where you're going and get out of the uncertainty of not knowing what's coming at you next.

 

Take control of your life. It's yours to live. It'll put you in a much better place than where you are now.

[Marc878]

Not to be a debbie downer, but isn't it possible that the OM lied to you about his wife's knowledge of the affair? Oftentimes the adulterer and their AP will construct a story together as a way of protecting themselves from any further fallout. Unless you've talked to his wife directly then I don't see how you can be certain that she knows.

 

Exactly.

 

You're taking the word of your wife and her lover????? Cheaters lie, hide and deceive. I'd bet the other mans wife does not know. I'd call her up and make sure. There needs to be some consequences here. It's part of taking control of you life. Being weak and complacent will get you nowhere. At the very least you'll have done something. I wouldn't give a damn who didn't like it. They screwed with your life and family. Man up!!!!!

 

The one thing, exposure will likely put an end to the affair more permanently than anything you can do. They do have a tendency to start up again.

Edited October 18, 2015 by Marc878

[fellini]

Personally I think you would be equally an idiot for leaving because of some overwhelming consensus of online strangers who almost never support reconciliation EVER, some of whom talk a lot about the impossibility of reconciliation who haven't even been cheated on by a spouse.

 

If you want to have your dignity and self respect you have to do what is right for you, for the reasons you decide matter.

 

This is not a decision matrix forum, it is a place to hear out what people have to say. The decision to leave is as much your own as it was your WW to cheat. And if you make "LS consensus" your criteria for making a decision then I suggest you are no where near ready to leave.

 

Dignity and self respect have ZERO to do with "doing the right thing" determined by a majority. Ill take advice from an expert about buying a car, but Ill be damned Im going to listen to anyone tell me how to evaluate a marriage I have been in for 20 years. I am the only expert in that.

 

 

It looks like the overwhelming consensus is that I am an idiot for staying and that if I have any dignity and self respect left that I need to leave.

[jbrent890]

Personally I think you would be equally an idiot for leaving because of some overwhelming consensus of online strangers who almost never support reconciliation EVER, some of whom talk a lot about the impossibility of reconciliation who haven't even been cheated on by a spouse.

 

If you want to have your dignity and self respect you have to do what is right for you, for the reasons you decide matter.

 

This is not a decision matrix forum, it is a place to hear out what people have to say. The decision to leave is as much your own as it was your WW to cheat. And if you make "LS consensus" your criteria for making a decision then I suggest you are no where near ready to leave.

 

Dignity and self respect have ZERO to do with "doing the right thing" determined by a majority. Ill take advice from an expert about buying a car, but Ill be damned Im going to listen to anyone tell me how to evaluate a marriage I have been in for 20 years. I am the only expert in that.

 

To be honest, for the exception of two posters who explicitly said leave, the other posters haven't pointed him in the D direction. I think that is just how he is taking the advice given. From what I have seen, people have suggested that he just take some sort of action. Go see a lawyer to figure out what his rights are, talk the obs to see if she does know about the affair, gather more information on the affair, etc. In essence, people are suggesting that he stop being complacent about this. I don't think any of those suggestion point towards D. Whether it is R or D, I think the goal here for most of the posters is to get the OP out of infidelity and the mindset and actions that stem from it.

[hubster]

To be honest, for the exception of two posters who explicitly said leave, the other posters haven't pointed him in the D direction. I think that is just how he is taking the advice given. From what I have seen, people have suggested that he just take some sort of action. Go see a lawyer to figure out what his rights are, talk the obs to see if she does know about the affair, gather more information on the affair, etc. In essence, people are suggesting that he stop being complacent about this. I don't think any of those suggestion point towards D. Whether it is R or D, I think the goal here for most of the posters is to get the OP out of infidelity and the mindset and actions that stem from it.

 

Let me just say this about my complacency, perceived or otherwise. Here are the actions I have taken--found out about affair in June--moved out a week later--stayed gone a month and only returned to tell my wife that I would not return unless she would go to counseling--she said she would consider it--spoke two weeks later and she said she would not go to counseling and did not think that was right for me to give her an ultimatum and I told her that we should get a divorce and she agreed and asked me if I would give her up to a year to get things "in order." I told her that I agree." So then we started doing better and she asked if we could reconsider the divorce and I said yes that we could see where it goes but then lots of back and forth started. I began getting more emotional because she did not give the attention that I expected etc. Then I was a wreck so kept snooping for thing and I am ultra paranoid as well. Then, she has became resentful and angry for my snooping etc and for my constant rehashing of events and she shuts down and digs in her heels deeper. So I could have been more assertive but she does say she loves me and she was starting to feel like we did when we were happy but when I bring all these things up again she shuts down and gets in a deep depression. Of course I have been in a deep depression. I just wanted to clarify those things whether or not it makes a da*% bit of difference.

[jbrent890]

Let me just say this about my complacency, perceived or otherwise. Here are the actions I have taken--found out about affair in June--moved out a week later--stayed gone a month and only returned to tell my wife that I would not return unless she would go to counseling--she said she would consider it--spoke two weeks later and she said she would not go to counseling and did not think that was right for me to give her an ultimatum and I told her that we should get a divorce and she agreed and asked me if I would give her up to a year to get things "in order." I told her that I agree." So then we started doing better and she asked if we could reconsider the divorce and I said yes that we could see where it goes but then lots of back and forth started. I began getting more emotional because she did not give the attention that I expected etc. Then I was a wreck so kept snooping for thing and I am ultra paranoid as well. Then, she has became resentful and angry for my snooping etc and for my constant rehashing of events and she shuts down and digs in her heels deeper. So I could have been more assertive but she does say she loves me and she was starting to feel like we did when we were happy but when I bring all these things up again she shuts down and gets in a deep depression. Of course I have been in a deep depression. I just wanted to clarify those things whether or not it makes a da*% bit of difference.

 

The thing is my man, from day one, she has been steering this boat. Everything has happened the way she has wanted it to. You asked for her to go to counseling and she said she would "consider it." Now she feels that she doesn't need it, but is also resentful that you are asking questions and don't trust her. Don't get me wrong, some of those behaviors by her are to be expected after d day, but they usually abate as time progresses. Your wife seems like the type of person that will respond to one thing, which is action. I think it is commendable that you want to dig this out through the holidays for your children. If I was in your boat, I would probably do the same. But like I suggested earlier, let that be your deadline. I would suggest telling your wife that if she doesn't go to counseling by the new year, you are going to start protecting yourself. Trust me dude, the path that you are on now is only going to cause you to become resentful, angry, and bitter. We are here for you dude, but the one person that needs to protect you is you.

[qubist]

Let me just say this about my complacency, perceived or otherwise. Here are the actions I have taken--found out about affair in June--moved out a week later--stayed gone a month and only returned to tell my wife that I would not return unless she would go to counseling--she said she would consider it--spoke two weeks later and she said she would not go to counseling and did not think that was right for me to give her an ultimatum and I told her that we should get a divorce and she agreed and asked me if I would give her up to a year to get things "in order." I told her that I agree." So then we started doing better and she asked if we could reconsider the divorce and I said yes that we could see where it goes but then lots of back and forth started. I began getting more emotional because she did not give the attention that I expected etc. Then I was a wreck so kept snooping for thing and I am ultra paranoid as well. Then, she has became resentful and angry for my snooping etc and for my constant rehashing of events and she shuts down and digs in her heels deeper. So I could have been more assertive but she does say she loves me and she was starting to feel like we did when we were happy but when I bring all these things up again she shuts down and gets in a deep depression. Of course I have been in a deep depression. I just wanted to clarify those things whether or not it makes a da*% bit of difference.

1- she is manipulating you emotionally, whether she is doing it intentionally or not is not know to me but you are under her control.

2- you will not be able to free yourself from all this ordeal unless you free yourself from that emotional control, we can sit here for another 2 months and 10s of pages looping around the same thing until you burst with depression or just give up.

3- reconciliation is possible but it required a define path which both of you have no idea about.

4- i guarantee you that once you show her that you are willing to leave if she is not putting the effort you will find out if she really loves you, she either going to leave you and give up or she would do the impossible to keep you.

5- it is OK if you don't want to D now, it is your decision and we should respect it but, that doesn't mean you should be weak. as a matter of fact if you want to fight for your marriage you should man up and face the challenge

[fellini]

I disagree. It seems to me that these two have both been winging their post DDay approach to infidelity. Neither of them seems to have read or connected with any serious and solid material on how to deal with the aftermath of discovery. So neither of them is doing "the right thing" NOT NECESSARILY out of manipulation but rather, out of ignorance of how serious and how much hard work and what kind of work needs to occur.

 

That they still have feelings for each other and seem to want to make it work, seems to be pretty obvious.

 

IF he told us that they had sat down and both READ "Not just Friends" or whatever flavour of book people prefer AND THEN REJECTED outright all that was suggested, I would say she is being manipulative and is not on the right path. Those of us who have read these books or websites have the upper hand.

 

But that does not translate into her wanting to pull the wool over her husband's eyes. From what he says here she just doesn't GET IT.

 

 

The thing is my man, from day one, she has been steering this boat. Everything has happened the way she has wanted it to. You asked for her to go to counseling and she said she would "consider it." Now she feels that she doesn't need it, but is also resentful that you are asking questions and don't trust her. Don't get me wrong, some of those behaviors by her are to be expected after d day, but they usually abate as time progresses. Your wife seems like the type of person that will respond to one thing, which is action. I think it is commendable that you want to dig this out through the holidays for your children. If I was in your boat, I would probably do the same. But like I suggested earlier, let that be your deadline. I would suggest telling your wife that if she doesn't go to counseling by the new year, you are going to start protecting yourself. Trust me dude, the path that you are on now is only going to cause you to become resentful, angry, and bitter. We are here for you dude, but the one person that needs to protect you is you.

[TX-SC]

Let me just say this about my complacency, perceived or otherwise. Here are the actions I have taken--found out about affair in June--moved out a week later--stayed gone a month and only returned to tell my wife that I would not return unless she would go to counseling--she said she would consider it--spoke two weeks later and she said she would not go to counseling and did not think that was right for me to give her an ultimatum and I told her that we should get a divorce and she agreed and asked me if I would give her up to a year to get things "in order." I told her that I agree." So then we started doing better and she asked if we could reconsider the divorce and I said yes that we could see where it goes but then lots of back and forth started. I began getting more emotional because she did not give the attention that I expected etc. Then I was a wreck so kept snooping for thing and I am ultra paranoid as well. Then, she has became resentful and angry for my snooping etc and for my constant rehashing of events and she shuts down and digs in her heels deeper. So I could have been more assertive but she does say she loves me and she was starting to feel like we did when we were happy but when I bring all these things up again she shuts down and gets in a deep depression. Of course I have been in a deep depression. I just wanted to clarify those things whether or not it makes a da*% bit of difference.

 

Based on this information, I really don't see your marriage surviving this. Your wife betrayed you but wants you to act like it never happened. There are no real ramifications for her. No counseling to fix herself, no checking to make sure she doesn't do it again, no talking about it. Just move on and forget? Sorry, it just doesn't work that way.

[jbrent890]

I disagree. It seems to me that these two have both been winging their post DDay approach to infidelity. Neither of them seems to have read or connected with any serious and solid material on how to deal with the aftermath of discovery. So neither of them is doing "the right thing" NOT NECESSARILY out of manipulation but rather, out of ignorance of how serious and how much hard work and what kind of work needs to occur.

 

That they still have feelings for each other and seem to want to make it work, seems to be pretty obvious.

 

IF he told us that they had sat down and both READ "Not just Friends" or whatever flavour of book people prefer AND THEN REJECTED outright all that was suggested, I would say she is being manipulative and is not on the right path. Those of us who have read these books or websites have the upper hand.

 

But that does not translate into her wanting to pull the wool over her husband's eyes. From what he says here she just doesn't GET IT.

 

But how is it ignorance if she knows what he needs? He asked for her to go to counseling, she said no. He asked to talk about the affair, she said no. Thats not ignorance, thats refusal. How is she supposed to connect to material if she want even do the basic things to start the process. I see no ignorance here on her part. She knows what she needs to do, but refuses to it.

[fellini]

She is ignorant of the importance to put her issues aside in order to help him heal. I experienced similar issues with my WW. She disagreed entirely with my approach to our reconciliation during months. She resisted certain strategies - not the same as OP's by any stretch of the imagination. But she was not willing to subject herself to anything that she felt was going to make her feel worse than she already did.

 

What she didn't get was that what I needed did not coincide with what she was prepared to do. Or better said: She didn't understand that it didn't matter what she thought about what I wanted, she just had to do it. What she had to learn was that "whatever it takes" means EXACTLY THAT. Some couples are so wound up in their cycles of victim/rescue / rescue/victim, or emotional avoidance strategies that they respond to treatment of infidelity in the same way they respond to arguments about family budgets, child rearing or who gets the car. Old habits die hard. I see no evidence that either of these two has read through the trauma based literature of infidelity and especially, what the unfaithful partner needs to do, in spite of their desires, to help the betrayed heal.

 

She, and in fact OP himself, had decided to separate, but in the interim she felt things had "calmed down" to the point that she began to see a future again. This is not how to go about healing. I don't necessarily subscribe to "trauma based" therapies either, but NOT investing in ANY supportive literature or IC seems wreckless to me.

 

Be that as it may: my point was this wrecklessness comes from a place of ignorance of the severity of the issues and NOT SOME PLOY on her part to continue to cheat.

 

But how is it ignorance if she knows what he needs? He asked for her to go to counseling, she said no. He asked to talk about the affair, she said no. Thats not ignorance, thats refusal. How is she supposed to connect to material if she want even do the basic things to start the process. I see no ignorance here on her part. She knows what she needs to do, but refuses to it.

[hubster]

She is ignorant of the importance to put her issues aside in order to help him heal. I experienced similar issues with my WW. She disagreed entirely with my approach to our reconciliation during months. She resisted certain strategies - not the same as OP's by any stretch of the imagination. But she was not willing to subject herself to anything that she felt was going to make her feel worse than she already did.

 

What she didn't get was that what I needed did not coincide with what she was prepared to do. Or better said: She didn't understand that it didn't matter what she thought about what I wanted, she just had to do it. What she had to learn was that "whatever it takes" means EXACTLY THAT. Some couples are so wound up in their cycles of victim/rescue / rescue/victim, or emotional avoidance strategies that they respond to treatment of infidelity in the same way they respond to arguments about family budgets, child rearing or who gets the car. Old habits die hard. I see no evidence that either of these two has read through the trauma based literature of infidelity and especially, what the unfaithful partner needs to do, in spite of their desires, to help the betrayed heal.

 

She, and in fact OP himself, had decided to separate, but in the interim she felt things had "calmed down" to the point that she began to see a future again. This is not how to go about healing. I don't necessarily subscribe to "trauma based" therapies either, but NOT investing in ANY supportive literature or IC seems wreckless to me.

 

Be that as it may: my point was this wrecklessness comes from a place of ignorance of the severity of the issues and NOT SOME PLOY on her part to continue to cheat.

 

Fellini, I do not have ignorance of the approach that me or my wife should take. I have went to multiple counselors and read lots of material online *( I read online articles and forums for at least 2 hours everyday or more depending on how much I am obsessing that day). It is not a matter of knowing--it is a matter of reconciling that with my heart. I KNOW she is not doing what she is doing and I know that I am enabling that by not requiring it but in my mind, it is either give it some time or give up. That is hard when I still look at this woman and try to figure out what happened to her character--it does not seem like her. I know she did it and she deceived and so on, but it just doesn't fit with who she was for the first 8 years I knew her. So it is a lot to absorb. I have literally lost my mind to a point. I know there are things I can do but they are much harder sitting where I am. I don't even know what normal is anymore.

[fellini]

Then perhaps you need to leave again. And not agree to come back until she has done her homework on what she needs to do. It's no good if only one, and worse, only the betrayed, knows what needs to be done, and the other has no faith in your reading and research.

 

Maybe she doesn't have it in her to do any of the work.

 

If that is so, you don't need any more information from her, it will be a choice you will make for yourself: Stay with a wayward wife who isn't going to do any major work in repairing your marriage or leave her as a lost cause. Maybe in time, you will learn to live with an unresolved crisis. Maybe not.

 

This is a choice you can make anytime. It doesn't have to be today, tomorrow, or next week. You leave when you see it's useless to stay, or when you cannot take it any more.

 

 

 

Fellini, I do not have ignorance of the approach that me or my wife should take. I have went to multiple counselors and read lots of material online *( I read online articles and forums for at least 2 hours everyday or more depending on how much I am obsessing that day). It is not a matter of knowing--it is a matter of reconciling that with my heart. I KNOW she is not doing what she is doing and I know that I am enabling that by not requiring it but in my mind, it is either give it some time or give up. That is hard when I still look at this woman and try to figure out what happened to her character--it does not seem like her. I know she did it and she deceived and so on, but it just doesn't fit with who she was for the first 8 years I knew her. So it is a lot to absorb. I have literally lost my mind to a point. I know there are things I can do but they are much harder sitting where I am. I don't even know what normal is anymore.

[Marc878]

It sounds like she senses your weakness and is only interested in avoiding divorce not a true reconciliation.

 

Which unfortunately for you means acceptance of the current situation.

 

The affair is bad enough. How you've handled it do far just makes it worse.

 

Their is always at chance at a reconciliation if two are willing to work at it.

 

Their is no chance for only one.

[qubist]

Fellini, I do not have ignorance of the approach that me or my wife should take. I have went to multiple counselors and read lots of material online *( I read online articles and forums for at least 2 hours everyday or more depending on how much I am obsessing that day). It is not a matter of knowing--it is a matter of reconciling that with my heart. I KNOW she is not doing what she is doing and I know that I am enabling that by not requiring it but in my mind, it is either give it some time or give up. That is hard when I still look at this woman and try to figure out what happened to her character--it does not seem like her. I know she did it and she deceived and so on, but it just doesn't fit with who she was for the first 8 years I knew her. So it is a lot to absorb. I have literally lost my mind to a point. I know there are things I can do but they are much harder sitting where I am. I don't even know what normal is anymore.

 

Filini and many of us here are trying to warn you based on many similar experiences that we have seen here and other website, unless you put your foot on the situation you will never succeed, and won't have your questions answered. you are not doing it because you have fear but what you are not aware of is even if you somehow magically were able to put it behind you for now you will never be able to completely get over it, you will have questions haunting you. in addition to that you don't know for sure whether she is still in the affair fog or not and if she is still in the fog you will have to help her but forcing the issues, who knows why she first agreed to D but later she wanted a second chance. you will always have problem with that you will keep wonder if you were her plan B when she most likely find out that the other guy was not for long term commitment.

I commend your willingness to save your marriage, but you gotta do it the right way

[Jonah]

Fellini, I do not have ignorance of the approach that me or my wife should take.

 

Yes you are working hard pushing the boulder up the mountain only to have it roll back over you (and your wife). One way of looking at what folks are saying here is that the longer this goes on the more bad memories are being made. You type that you agree that there will come a time that you will rip the infected band-aid clean off, it would be best if you just went ahead and did it now before the infection sets too deep for recovery. You would be saving you and your wife much pain. You are really planning on a year of of this? If MC was on one could understand why you would hang out.

 

Half measures are just going to bring more frustration... your love life is living proof.

[Betrayed&Stayed]

It is not a matter of knowing--it is a matter of reconciling that with my heart. I KNOW she is not doing what she is doing and I know that I am enabling that by not requiring it but in my mind, it is either give it some time or give up. That is hard when I still look at this woman and try to figure out what happened to her character--it does not seem like her. I know she did it and she deceived and so on, but it just doesn't fit with who she was for the first 8 years I knew her. So it is a lot to absorb.

 

You are still in Denial. The facts are there. Nothing changed in her character; she just revealed it fully to you. Sometimes us men put our wives up on a pedestal, and then we don't understand why they don't live up to the standards.

 

With her affair and history, if anyone needs professional help, she does. That should be condition #1 for reconciliation. Without her seeking professional help, your marriage is doomed for complete failure. Also, to me it sounds like she wants to divorce you but on her terms.

[Horton]

She has an unhealthy obsession with her baby because she says she feels like she killed her baby and I am going to leave her anyway.

 

Well in fairness to her point of view, she did and you might, so that's not something one could really accuse her of being irrational about. However both of these things that she's so upset about and refuses to seek any help for are choices that she made herself without your input. You didn't drive her to the OM's house or the abortion clinic, this is all on her 100% of it. She's failed to behave like an honorable wife and mother and these are the natural consequences for her actions, unfortunately she's now dragging you down with her.

 

You're now in the position(due solely to her selfishness) to have to carry her to the finish line so to speak with two broken legs yourself and the sad fact is that even if you somehow succeed in doing the impossible and dragging her kicking and screaming into reconciliation she could still just turn around some day and do this to you all over again.

 

Cheaters are often repeat offenders, so please don't kid yourself that staying with her after she's already cheated once is the 'safe' option as some may try to convince you. That's what abuse victims tell themselves. It is true that she may change some day, to borrow from the bible she could have her 'road to Damascus' moment and become Paul the Apostle, but in the meantime you'll be stuck living with Saul of Tarsus. If you don't know what that means then lets just say that it's not good.

[Spectre]

Dude, just leave! No "leaving and then coming back" BS. Yes, it is silly to do something because of an internet forum.

 

But whether or not people on the internet told you that not leaving her would be forsaking any dignity you have...the reality would still be you will be forsaking any dignity you have by not leaving her. Don't leave her because a stranger told you to, leave her because you opened up your eyes and realized YOU DESERVE BETTER.

 

You deserve better then this. If you don't feel you deserve better then fine, nobody can force you to respect yourself.

Edited October 19, 2015 by Spectre

[HurtOfGlass]

The children you are staying put for are not even yours.

From what I have read in your other thread, you wife had another man's name as password in one of her accounts. That leads you to suspect anothee affair. And your gut is probably true. She did have another affair.

 

And from what you've been telling here doesn't match with what you said in your other thread. Here you said you left but in that thread you said your wife asked you to leave because she wanted space to "clear her head". So in effectively you were thrown out by your WW and she gave you the permission to return back. I DONT SEE THIS AS MUCH OF AN ACTION ON YOUR PART.

 

And you were falling over yourself to appease her ipon discovery. Whatever little respect she had for you evaporated in those few days when she was able to throw you out of the house.

 

Ffs, just divorce her. Be a man. Stand up for yourself and say "Enough"

[merrmeade]

Marc, I know they lie and she has plenty but I actully spoke to the OM. I texted him and he texted me back, so I know that she told his wife. He said he hadn't spoken to my wife in a year--texts that I saw seem to back that up. Obviously this doesn't seem to matter much. It looks like the overwhelming consensus is that I am an idiot for staying and that if I have any dignity and self respect left that I need to leave. I really do get that and understand that--maybe I don't have any of those things left. Deep down I have made up my mind to leave but I just can't do that to the kids right before the holidays. I want them to at least enjoy one last christmas without knowing there are big problems coming. I am not the pope but maybe I am too nice for my own damn good. EVERYONE--I appreciate all of your advice and help and believe it or not, I have told people in my position the exact same things but now that I am in this spot, it seems much harder to take action. As I have said before, I AM A MESS! This is therapeutic though in many ways to just be able to vent and discuss these things. Sometimes it helps and sometimes it hurts more.

Ummm, hubster? They BOTH lie. Did you forget that? They lied during the affair big time, so they are very capable. They are motivated during the affair to hide it. They are motivated after the affair to protect themselves from whatever you still don't know. And the AP (the OM) is motivated in this situation to protect himself and to protect your wife. That's how it works.

 

We all think we can ask the AP things and we'll get the truth, and it's the worst punch to the gut to realize later they're still protecting YOUR spouse from YOU.

[merrmeade]

I disagree. It seems to me that these two have both been winging their post DDay approach to infidelity. Neither of them seems to have read or connected with any serious and solid material on how to deal with the aftermath of discovery. So neither of them is doing "the right thing" NOT NECESSARILY out of manipulation but rather, out of ignorance of how serious and how much hard work and what kind of work needs to occur.

 

That they still have feelings for each other and seem to want to make it work, seems to be pretty obvious.

 

IF he told us that they had sat down and both READ "Not just Friends" or whatever flavour of book people prefer AND THEN REJECTED outright all that was suggested, I would say she is being manipulative and is not on the right path. Those of us who have read these books or websites have the upper hand.

 

But that does not translate into her wanting to pull the wool over her husband's eyes. From what he says here she just doesn't GET IT.

This is the thing, hubster. Don't feel bad and ricochet another direction in reaction to LS. You need to get yourSELF back for YOU by reading, working in IC, HEALING—with or without your wife. But reading, talking and writing is essential. You will heal, but first you have to get your head clear and working.

[HurtHusband]

I think he said he's leaving her after Christmas.

You may love the kids but your in a toxic relationship and you are suffering, this will only continue. I am in a very similar situation myself and it's killing me.

 

Take some steps, do something. Don't you want to get rid of that horrible anxiety and be happy again? Just be happy with someone who does'nt cause you such heartache? Wouldn't that feel good? You know what betrayal feels like.. You have had a gut full of this.. Enough to last a lifetime...do you think you could continue feeling like this day in day out for years? I know that physically and mentally I can't. I have a time line.

 

Just take a moment to breathe and empty your head and imagine yourself a year from now in a better place.

Edited October 19, 2015 by HurtHusband

[oldshirt]

One of the challenges decent, kind, caring and honest people have is they think that other people are also decent, kind, honest etc etc and think that all they have to do is say some magic phrase or do some act of kindness and the person that is treating them bad will suddenly realize their bad actions and will do a 180 and start doing the right thing.

 

 

Good, decent people have trouble grasping that some people are just selfish and self-serving and don't have any problem screwing other people over to get what they want.

 

 

Good decent people also spend tremendous amounts of time and energy searching for the perfect solution that won't cause anyone any grief or stress or upset anyone.

 

 

As a result they often get ground into the mud and made to eat worms for a long, long time until they finally realize that the pain and torment of staying far surpasses the stress and anxiety they will feel about upsetting the fruitbasket when they make their getaway.

[qubist]

One of the challenges decent, kind, caring and honest people have is they think that other people are also decent, kind, honest etc etc and think that all they have to do is say some magic phrase or do some act of kindness and the person that is treating them bad will suddenly realize their bad actions and will do a 180 and start doing the right thing.

 

 

Good, decent people have trouble grasping that some people are just selfish and self-serving and don't have any problem screwing other people over to get what they want.

 

 

Good decent people also spend tremendous amounts of time and energy searching for the perfect solution that won't cause anyone any grief or stress or upset anyone.

 

 

As a result they often get ground into the mud and made to eat worms for a long, long time until they finally realize that the pain and torment of staying far surpasses the stress and anxiety they will feel about upsetting the fruitbasket when they make their getaway.

in addition to what you wrote, being illusionist makes it worst. the writing in the walls are clear but the OP is waiting for magic to happen