I need........... support

[Ladyjane14]

Right! Here's what I'm doing. This has gone on for long enough.

 

I'll never be able to respect my wife if I go back with anything less than the full 180, with full remorse. So I'm going to do what we should have done a year ago. No contact, for anything unless to do with the kids. I'll give it two weeks. If I haven't achieved remorse and clarity by then, I don't think I ever will. And it'll be time to move on.

 

Thoughts?

 

I think you're just trying to get her to pull the trigger on the divorce because you lack the courage to do it.

 

It's pretty easy to mistake caring for desperation. After two decades together, she's probably thinking that there's something gone wrong with you that can be fixed. If that's her thought process, then of course she'd be viewing you as fragile.

[Carriages]

I think you're just trying to get her to pull the trigger on the divorce because you lack the courage to do it.

It's not just lack of courage. I genuinely don't know if it's even what I want. If I could have a genuine, relaxed authentic relationship with my W, that would be the best thing for all concerned. Or do you think I'm in denial about it being impossible now??

[Carriages]

Two weeks is NOTHING in the grand scheme of all you have gone through. Why are you putting a finite date on expecting results?

Because where I am now isn't a life. It's nothing more than a meaningless existence. We all need to know where we're headed.

 

I kind of feel like I have all the information now. But I will not return home, however powerful the pull, unless I feel unqualified remorse for what I did and at least a reasonable sense of conviction that my W. is the one I want to be with and can trust myself to treat her well. Maybe a brief period of true NC will provide those things.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Carriages
typo

[Civil]

I think every marriage has things that are wrong, that you just have to learn to accept. In my case, there are a bunch of things, none of which would be a deal breaker on its own; but the sum of the parts becomes a monster.

 

Okay. Here goes.

 

1. Her extended family issues. Imagine the diametric opposite of the Brady Bunch. Totally dysfunctional as a unit and as individuals. I had already accepted her marriage proposal prior to meeting them.

 

2. Sex. It's important to me. Sometimes good; never once in our 25 years was it great. For either of us.

 

3. My wife is totally lacking in common sense, and pragmatism. Whereas I'm all about both. So many things she just doesn't "get" and has to be explained over and over. It's draining!

 

4. She has chronic (although not debilitating) anxiety, never really sought treatment for it, and it's made our family life much harder than it's needed to be.

 

Just writing those things I feel like a huge a**hole. But they are basically the issues which are stopping me running back right now in this fragile state I'm in.

 

I'm sorry, I think your concerns have been misdirected. I think the worst of this is how utterly unfair it is to your children to allow troubles to shape your families' lives FOR 25 YEARS as if you didn't live in a society that offers a huge range of solutions, treatments, options. Your "elephants" are not a of a rare, exotic breed. They're actually pretty ordinary.

 

1) Avoid if you have to. You don't specify the level of dysfunction, but my H and I both came from extremely, repeat for emphasis, extremely, disordered families. When nothing else worked, we separated from them. The financial cost was huge, but it paid for 40+ years of peace and safety for our kids.

 

2) Therapy. Did you try anything at all in the years before the affair?

 

3) Behavioral therapy. Unless this is just nonsense? Honestly? You did say she's quite able and more effective than you are when challenging tasks are involved.

 

4) For goodness sakes, treatment. It's tailored and effective, and a family member who suffers from anxiety cannot avoid affecting the whole family.

 

I get that you want to be happy, but healthy should be the first step and the whole scenario should be much more tuned to your kids' life long prospects. As they hit adulthood, you'll appreciate the fact that you cannot be content unless they are.

Edited October 31, 2015 by Civil

[Ladyjane14]

It's not just lack of courage. I genuinely don't know if it's even what I want. If I could have a genuine, relaxed authentic relationship with my W, that would be the best thing for all concerned. Or do you think I'm in denial about it being impossible now??

 

"Genuine", "relaxed", and "authentic" don't happen until after marital repair. You've created a traumatic stress injury to your wife. Now, you're compounding it with further dithering about whether or not you love her enough to even TRY. It was 25 years of her LIFE!

 

If it were her here instead of you, even I (who rarely tells somebody to pull the plug)... would be telling her to pull the plug.

 

You're clearly unsorted, but worse, you're not really working toward changing that. You're still looking for external sources of comfort. Your best idea as to how you might get off the fence is to go No Contact with your WIFE to see if you feel badly for stabbing her in the back.

 

C'mon... When you can't even gather that much empathy for someone who gave you two and a half decades of her life, that's about YOU. It's not even Human Being 101. A person who is psychologically healthy would at least have that much on the ball, you know?

 

This is why I suggested earlier that you change your IC and get someone who will hold you a good deal more accountable and treat you on a more intensive schedule. Not a professional, but I honestly don't think this is just a simple case of affair fog. If we were to interview your wife, what would she tell us about the pre-adultery state of the marriage? What "elephants" would she say that YOU brought to the relationship?

 

I suspect you've probably got a lengthy history of conflict avoidance and feelings of inadequacy (acted out in forms of grandiosity). And if so, how did that happen? You need to find out the original source, because if those are the sorts of issues at hand, you can see pretty readily what happens when you mix conflict avoidance with shame... blammo!... emotional paralysis; loss of empathy.

 

Look, if I thought you were just a cheating *******, I wouldn't bother wasting my time. Time is a precious thing after all. But you spent 25 years too; building a life, building a family... and then flaked. You need to know WHY. What's inside you that sent your mind down the path it's been on?

 

My advice?... skip the no contact plan and find an IC who will kick you in the pants as needed. And of course.... read, read, and read some more.

[Carriages]

"This is why I suggested earlier that you change your IC and get someone who will hold you a good deal more accountable and treat you on a more intensive schedule. Not a professional, but I honestly don't think this is just a simple case of affair fog. If we were to interview your wife, what would she tell us about the pre-adultery state of the marriage? What "elephants" would she say that YOU brought to the relationship?

 

I suspect you've probably got a lengthy history of conflict avoidance and feelings of inadequacy (acted out in forms of grandiosity). And if so, how did that happen? You need to find out the original source, because if those are the sorts of issues at hand, you can see pretty readily what happens when you mix conflict avoidance with shame... blammo!... emotional paralysis; loss of empathy.

 

Look, if I thought you were just a cheating *******, I wouldn't bother wasting my time. Time is a precious thing after all. But you spent 25 years too; building a life, building a family... and then flaked. You need to know WHY. What's inside you that sent your mind down the path it's been on?

 

My advice?... skip the no contact plan and find an IC who will kick you in the pants as needed. And of course.... read, read, and read some more.

Oh no, this is far more than a simple case of affair fog. If you were to interview my wife...... well, she has said she thought we had "the usual marriage ups and downs" but were basically fine pre-affair. A counselor disagreed, and so did I. There were some deep fundamental issues there (although it's fair to say the level of overt conflict wasn't necessarily higher than normal). And I didn't suddenly flake. Discontent and resentment built up within me literally from our honeymoon onwards.

 

But yes, I am serial conflict avoider; so rather that confront the unchangeable faults in our relationship, I bit my tongue, wore a mask, and internally seethed. I knew I had checked out of the marriage many years before the affair.

 

What's inherent in me to have caused all this? According to "No more Mr. Nice Guy" which I'm reading at the moment (and I think describes me to a tee) it stems from abandonment issues in childhood, causing inherent low self esteem and a feeling that if you're "nice" you'll be loved and get your needs met. But it doesn't work and actually, on scratching the surface, you are not that "nice" a person at all. The book is aimed at men, but my wife is clerly a "nice guy" as well. More so than me even. She had a severely traumatic childhood.

[Ladyjane14]

Oh no, this is far more than a simple case of affair fog. If you were to interview my wife...... well, she has said she thought we had "the usual marriage ups and downs" but were basically fine pre-affair. A counselor disagreed, and so did I. There were some deep fundamental issues there (although it's fair to say the level of overt conflict wasn't necessarily higher than normal). And I didn't suddenly flake. Discontent and resentment built up within me literally from our honeymoon onwards.

 

But yes, I am serial conflict avoider; so rather that confront the unchangeable faults in our relationship, I bit my tongue, wore a mask, and internally seethed. I knew I had checked out of the marriage many years before the affair.

 

What's inherent in me to have caused all this? According to "No more Mr. Nice Guy" which I'm reading at the moment (and I think describes me to a tee) it stems from abandonment issues in childhood, causing inherent low self esteem and a feeling that if you're "nice" you'll be loved and get your needs met. But it doesn't work and actually, on scratching the surface, you are not that "nice" a person at all. The book is aimed at men, but my wife is clerly a "nice guy" as well. More so than me even. She had a severely traumatic childhood.

 

In conflict avoidance, yeah... people will build up like pressure cookers. Next thing you know, the lid blows off and you've got a huge mess to clean up, which of course, is what's happened here.

 

Conflict comes in two flavors, constructive and nonconstructive. Constructive conflict is an opportunity. It's a space where problems can be resolved. Nonconstructive conflict is just venting, which causes more resentment and pressure to build. The way you recognize one from the other is whether the problem at hand is solvable or not. And all the ones you listed as "elephants" were solvable problems.

 

You referred to "unchangeable faults in the relationship", but there's nothing you've described that I would say is not subject to change. Although admittedly, sometimes the conflict has to get fairly intense before that happens, (i.e. when someone doesn't acknowledge the other partner's point of view until they see tail lights going down the driveway).

 

I had a cursory look at the book you're reading, and while I can see the merits in terms of describing the problem, what I don't see is viable solutions. He seems rather to be saying "man up"... kind of a permission slip for the grandiose behavior that's landed you where you are.

 

I do agree that men need a "movement" akin to the women's movement, which allows them to slip the bonds of stereotype. But that wouldn't be going more toward the masculine. It would be learning to accept what we would typically think of in societal terms as more feminine; emotions, relationships, intimacy, care-giving, etc.

 

Terrence Real lays out a pretty good argument, referring to a patriarchal system which damages a boy's ability to really be in touch with his emotions. While he doesn't delve into the natural, physiological difference between male and female brains, he does get down to the nuts and bolts about how we fail boys by aggressively pushing them toward this overarching masculine model. And more importantly, he deals with how shame at not achieving that model (low self-esteem) then causes men to behave in ways that prevent true intimacy.

 

Whether you go back to your wife and family or not, right this very minute YOU are perpetuating that chain rather than breaking free from it. You're passing that patriarchal/grandiose model down to your offspring and creating wounds that they will then carry to their own children.

[waterwoman]

Feminism at it's heart seeks to release men from the bonds of patriarchy as a natural concommitant of releasing women. Boys are IMO far more vulnerable to a patriarchal upbringing but because by and large adult men have more to gain. the suffering they go through is seen as worth it. Sorry for the tj.

[Carriages]

I had a cursory look at the book you're reading, and while I can see the merits in terms of describing the problem, what I don't see is viable solutions. He seems rather to be saying "man up"... kind of a permission slip for the grandiose behavior that's landed you where you are.

 

Thanks LJ. The author is at pains to point out this is *not* a permission slip to go out there and be a selfish bastard but....... in spite of this there is an element of "it's all about me" which does come through. But what I've taken from the book so far is that conflict avoidance & denial of who you are etc. under the pretext of being "nice" or "good" actually creates a situation which is neither.

 

It's certainly possible to become awash with competing principles. Be true to yourself, but suck up the relationship issues you can't change. Don't stay together for the kids, but divorce will screw them forever. It's never-ending.....

[Ladyjane14]

Thanks LJ. The author is at pains to point out this is *not* a permission slip to go out there and be a selfish bastard but....... in spite of this there is an element of "it's all about me" which does come through. But what I've taken from the book so far is that conflict avoidance & denial of who you are etc. under the pretext of being "nice" or "good" actually creates a situation which is neither.

 

It's certainly possible to become awash with competing principles. Be true to yourself, but suck up the relationship issues you can't change. Don't stay together for the kids, but divorce will screw them forever. It's never-ending.....

 

That's true... conflict avoidance is a relationship killer. It breeds silent contempt for one's partner and allows us to see ourselves as helpless victims. It's just a short stroll from there to giving yourself permission to behave in ways that tear down everything you've spent decades building.

 

So, what exactly does "being true to yourself" entail? It's completely possible, you know, to get a divorce without screwing up your kids forever. But you have to EARN your way out. You don't do that by continuing to blame "relationship issues" for YOUR personal failures.

 

Look at it this way, say you get hit by a bus tomorrow, what do your kids write in your obituary?.. you get hit by a bus five years from now, what do they write then?

[sandylee1]

Quote from Carriages:

 

I knew I had checked out of the marriage many years before the affair.

 

^^^^^^^ so what's gonna make the marriage a place to 'check in' if you go back.

 

You never really wanted to marry her in the first place.

It doesn't sound like you 'fell in love' with her after that.

She's really not what you want in a wife. ...so why bother?

 

If you didn't have kids with her...or if they had grown up and left home..would you still be thinking about reconciling?

 

You already don't live with your family and the kids must be used to that now after 15 months.........why go back when your wife is much the same and probably has even less self esteem now, than when you left?

[ladydesigner]

"Genuine", "relaxed", and "authentic" don't happen until after marital repair. You've created a traumatic stress injury to your wife. Now, you're compounding it with further dithering about whether or not you love her enough to even TRY. It was 25 years of her LIFE!

 

If it were her here instead of you, even I (who rarely tells somebody to pull the plug)... would be telling her to pull the plug.

 

You're clearly unsorted, but worse, you're not really working toward changing that. You're still looking for external sources of comfort. Your best idea as to how you might get off the fence is to go No Contact with your WIFE to see if you feel badly for stabbing her in the back.

 

C'mon... When you can't even gather that much empathy for someone who gave you two and a half decades of her life, that's about YOU. It's not even Human Being 101. A person who is psychologically healthy would at least have that much on the ball, you know?

 

This is why I suggested earlier that you change your IC and get someone who will hold you a good deal more accountable and treat you on a more intensive schedule. Not a professional, but I honestly don't think this is just a simple case of affair fog. If we were to interview your wife, what would she tell us about the pre-adultery state of the marriage? What "elephants" would she say that YOU brought to the relationship?

 

I suspect you've probably got a lengthy history of conflict avoidance and feelings of inadequacy (acted out in forms of grandiosity). And if so, how did that happen? You need to find out the original source, because if those are the sorts of issues at hand, you can see pretty readily what happens when you mix conflict avoidance with shame... blammo!... emotional paralysis; loss of empathy.

 

Look, if I thought you were just a cheating *******, I wouldn't bother wasting my time. Time is a precious thing after all. But you spent 25 years too; building a life, building a family... and then flaked. You need to know WHY. What's inside you that sent your mind down the path it's been on?

 

My advice?... skip the no contact plan and find an IC who will kick you in the pants as needed. And of course.... read, read, and read some more.

 

Best post ever! I am I total agreement, this post is it in a nutshell for sure!

[ladydesigner]

After reading the latest Carriages I think it is you that has the issue, not your wife. You have a lot of introspection to do on yourself.

[whichwayisup]

It's not just lack of courage. I genuinely don't know if it's even what I want. If I could have a genuine, relaxed authentic relationship with my W, that would be the best thing for all concerned. Or do you think I'm in denial about it being impossible now??

 

You said from the get go that you never had that 'in love' feeling with your wife. If you stay with her, a year or five years from now you're gonna cheat on her again. Set her free, have shared and fair custody, be the best co parents to your child(ren) and respect one another. Divorce and be on good terms.

[OldRover]

You said from the get go that you never had that 'in love' feeling with your wife. If you stay with her, a year or five years from now you're gonna cheat on her again. Set her free, have shared and fair custody, be the best co parents to your child(ren) and respect one another. Divorce and be on good terms.

 

You don't need that "in love" feeling... assuming your talking about the honeymoon stage to have a successful marriage.

[whichwayisup]

You don't need that "in love" feeling... assuming your talking about the honeymoon stage to have a successful marriage.

 

He said he never felt in love with his wife from the get go, wasn't that attracted to her either. I'm not talking about the honeymoon stage - He just hasn't seemed too happy throughout his marriage, hence his decision to cheat and have an affair. If he is to stay married, he has to come clean to his wife and change his behaviour and habits. He has to want to invest and emotionally/physically in her and their marriage.

 

The love and bond/glue that holds a marriage together may not be in his, so it seems.

[Mr. Lucky]

It's not just lack of courage. I genuinely don't know if it's even what I want. If I could have a genuine, relaxed authentic relationship with my W, that would be the best thing for all concerned. Or do you think I'm in denial about it being impossible now??

 

You've gotten a ton of good advice in the last couple of pages, but the same "duck and cover" approach you've brought to this chain of events probably means you won't comprehend or heed it. And that has more to do with emotional intelligence than IQ.

 

To me, the biggest disconnect in your thinking is this - there's a difference and separation between what your marriage provides you and what you bring to the relationship. Many married couples flounder and flail as they expect their marriage to provide happiness, satisfaction, passion and connection. But the real joy is in the effort you expend on a daily basis to get there - the little acts, the considerations, the words, the accommodations, etc. So marriage doesn't provide me "love", it gives me a framework to prove my commitment to my partner.

 

NC is a great idea if you want a divorce. It's the wrong thing if you want to recover...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Carriages]

You've gotten a ton of good advice in the last couple of pages, but the same "duck and cover" approach you've brought to this chain of events probably means you won't comprehend or heed it. And that has more to do with emotional intelligence than IQ.

 

To me, the biggest disconnect in your thinking is this - there's a difference and separation between what your marriage provides you and what you bring to the relationship. Many married couples flounder and flail as they expect their marriage to provide happiness, satisfaction, passion and connection. But the real joy is in the effort you expend on a daily basis to get there - the little acts, the considerations, the words, the accommodations, etc. So marriage doesn't provide me "love", it gives me a framework to prove my commitment to my partner.

 

NC is a great idea if you want a divorce. It's the wrong thing if you want to recover...

 

Mr. Lucky

Thanks Mr. Lucky. Yes, I have received a ton of great advice and I'm hugely grateful for it. However the decision on which path to take remains mine, and it is that with which I'm still struggling.

 

I think you do me a disservice by saying I won't comprehend or heed the advice because of my "duck and cover" mentality. While it's true I have lived my entire life with this mentality up until now; this is behaviour I'm trying very hard not to repeat at this time. The duck and cover response right now would be to return to the marriage without being fully mentally there and fully prepared to do the work - papering over the cracks like I have done in the past.

 

I also understand the real joy lies in what you do for your partner. That only works however if you are not overwhelmed with resentment - and historically, I have been. It's hard to be genuine with acts of love when as you're trying to make those gestures a voice is screaming "but the sex is bad/she doesn't get you/she's mucking up the parenting again etc. etc..... sometimes, some basic mechanics have to be there first.

 

We've been doing the NC for the last week, although my wife broke it yesterday asking for a talk (which turned into a huge unloading session on her part, which I resented her for, which was counterproductive). It's what should have happened a long time ago, and it should have come from my wife. Her unconditional pleading, even while I was with the AP, served only to push me further away. If our marriage is to be, I need to be woken up and value it.

[OldRover]

Thanks Mr. Lucky. Yes, I have received a ton of great advice and I'm hugely grateful for it. However the decision on which path to take remains mine, and it is that with which I'm still struggling.

 

I think you do me a disservice by saying I won't comprehend or heed the advice because of my "duck and cover" mentality. While it's true I have lived my entire life with this mentality up until now; this is behaviour I'm trying very hard not to repeat at this time. The duck and cover response right now would be to return to the marriage without being fully mentally there and fully prepared to do the work - papering over the cracks like I have done in the past.

 

I also understand the real joy lies in what you do for your partner. That only works however if you are not overwhelmed with resentment - and historically, I have been. It's hard to be genuine with acts of love when as you're trying to make those gestures a voice is screaming "but the sex is bad/she doesn't get you/she's mucking up the parenting again etc. etc..... sometimes, some basic mechanics have to be there first.

 

We've been doing the NC for the last week, although my wife broke it yesterday asking for a talk (which turned into a huge unloading session on her part, which I resented her for, which was counterproductive). It's what should have happened a long time ago, and it should have come from my wife. Her unconditional pleading, even while I was with the AP, served only to push me further away. If our marriage is to be, I need to be woken up and value it.

 

Carriages,

 

Yes, you do have some issues. I feel strongly that you can get back in the marriage with success. BUT you'll have to be committed to make it work, first .... and then carry out that commitment. Your wife will have to be on the same page.

 

You will set some boundaries and goals. You will work together to accomplish the goals. You will not fight or argue over things, but discuss differences and come to solutions. You will both have to give 110%. You are not there, yet.

 

As for your love for her... I suspect, after 25 years, there certainly was some strong love or it would be hard to imagine you hung on that long. You'll need to rekindle that, too. And you can.

 

I don't like the NC, but if you must, so be it. I would encourage you to live on your own, have occasional talks with your wife and between the two of you determine if you're both willing to give it 110%. The longer you stay apart, the more likely you'll never be back together, but taking a few months may work out fine, especially if you maintain some communication with her. And, you'll have to continue NC with the OW.... for SURE. And you'll have to work hard to get her out of your mind.

 

Good luck.

[Ladyjane14]

Thanks Mr. Lucky. Yes, I have received a ton of great advice and I'm hugely grateful for it. However the decision on which path to take remains mine, and it is that with which I'm still struggling.

 

I think you do me a disservice by saying I won't comprehend or heed the advice because of my "duck and cover" mentality. While it's true I have lived my entire life with this mentality up until now; this is behaviour I'm trying very hard not to repeat at this time. The duck and cover response right now would be to return to the marriage without being fully mentally there and fully prepared to do the work - papering over the cracks like I have done in the past.

 

I also understand the real joy lies in what you do for your partner. That only works however if you are not overwhelmed with resentment - and historically, I have been. It's hard to be genuine with acts of love when as you're trying to make those gestures a voice is screaming "but the sex is bad/she doesn't get you/she's mucking up the parenting again etc. etc..... sometimes, some basic mechanics have to be there first.

 

We've been doing the NC for the last week, although my wife broke it yesterday asking for a talk (which turned into a huge unloading session on her part, which I resented her for, which was counterproductive). It's what should have happened a long time ago, and it should have come from my wife. Her unconditional pleading, even while I was with the AP, served only to push me further away. If our marriage is to be, I need to be woken up and value it.

 

Huh?

She should have unloaded on you earlier, but not now?... now, it's just counter productive? I'm not following your reasoning on that.

 

Although, I do agree that you need a serious wake up call. I'd have served you with divorce papers and ****ed all your unmarried friends by now. You're a guy who doesn't recognize a good thing when he sees it, I think.

[Carriages]

Huh?

She should have unloaded on you earlier, but not now?... now, it's just counter productive? I'm not following your reasoning on that.

 

Although, I do agree that you need a serious wake up call. I'd have served you with divorce papers and ****ed all your unmarried friends by now. You're a guy who doesn't recognize a good thing when he sees it, I think.

When did I ever say she should have unloaded on me earlier??? Perhaps you misunderstood - I meant "emotional" unloading - which was a bugbear of my entire married life. The communication was all one way, from her to me. The "support train" was all one way also, from me to her. There simply was just not room in the relationship for me to have feelings, problems, or emotions.

 

Yes, I am completely aware that on paper there is a huge amount "good" about what I have. There are probably a zillion married couples who are happier with far "less" than what I've been blessed with. But I'm over that mentality. It was that that got me into the marriage in the first place. She ticks a lot of boxes, the positive probably outweigh the negatives, therefore she must be okay, therefore any hangups/doubts I do still have are simply an unhelpful pessimistic mindgame. WRONG.

[Mr. Lucky]

If our marriage is to be, I need to be woken up and value it.

 

So if you go NC and hunker down in your apartment, how does this "wake-up" moment occur? If you're waiting to suddenly feel differently, don't think it works that way. Even Newton needed to be struck on the noggin'...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Mr. Lucky]

When did I ever say she should have unloaded on me earlier??? Perhaps you misunderstood - I meant "emotional" unloading - which was a bugbear of my entire married life.

 

I think Ladyjane14 was offering her opinion that your BS has been remarkably patient with you. Most, given your indecisiveness, would have kicked you to the curb long age...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Carriages]

I think Ladyjane14 was offering her opinion that your BS has been remarkably patient with you. Most, given your indecisiveness, would have kicked you to the curb long age...

 

Mr. Lucky

 

I know, I know. But hear me here. I haven't appreciated that patience. That patience - still extended to me while I was basically living with the AP - just reinforced to be that my BS isn't really thinking straight. She *should* have kicked me to the kerb, in no uncertain terms. I often wonder if I had really felt that, would it have provided me with Newton's apple? If my wife had come at me with deserved lawyers and vitriol, would I immediately have been on my knees?? I'll never know. The current NC plan (which is only ever pseudo, as we have 3 kids to communicate over) is as much for her benefit as mine. It feels like the right thing, something which should ideally have come from her, but should have happened a long time ago.

[Mr. Lucky]

Wow. Damned if she does, damned if she doesn't.

 

You are avoidant to the extreme. If only your wife had... If only your AP had... If only everyone made Carriages choices for him, he wouldn't have to take responsibility for his own decisions. Grow up...

 

Mr. Lucky