I need........... support

[ladydesigner]

Because they are fundamental things about the way my wife is, and they just 'aint ever going to change. I always knew they were there (although when we got married, I expected them to get better with the passage of time). In the early days I got around them with some mental gymnastics, and I changed myself a bit.... which led to the pressure cooker I was 2 years ago.

 

Do you think you idealized your wife and she didn't meet up to your idealizations? If you knew these things going into it, people usually don't get better unless they are actively seeking change and want to change.

 

I guess I am not understanding the reason YOU want to go back to your wife.

 

And I too like Mrs. Adams see this as blaming the BS in a way. Your wife may not think she needs to change or even want to change. What then?

[ladydesigner]

<<<<If my WH would have addressed our M problems after his A I would have laughed in his face. Are u kidding me?>>>>

 

And let us know how this works in the future.... you have some serious problems to address, but you need to start another thread, not appropriate here.

 

Right! After your threadjack

[OldRover]

No, I *want* to improve myself, and am more than happy to do that mental work.

 

What I am afraid of is when the mental work starts to feel insincere. When the elephants in the room resurface and the devil inside me starts laughing that I made the wrong decision, that I returned only because I didn't have the guts to leave...... that kind of stuff.

 

I know myself well enough to know at some point the mental work will start to feel insincere. That's a given. What isn't, is whether I can put the brakes on to stop myself descending into negativity and ****ing things up again.

 

And on this post, you're absolutely right. You will have to address ALL of the problems and deal with ALL of them.... from the affair to the elephants, and whatever else.

 

Yes, that can be VERY depressing... just going through what you've already been through can be depressing. You made some mistakes, fallen for another woman, has issues with your marriage.... YES there are very depressing problems, and I really hope you can get through these.

 

And, before you go back to her, you'll have to address ALL of them and be on board 110% to make it work..... and I'm betting that she will agree and follow you. But YOU have to make the effort. And you'll have to resist falling back into negativity. Not easy, but it can be done, and if successful it can be VERY worth it.

[OldRover]

Right! After your threadjack

 

YOU mentioned your situation... I just commented. Sorry if it offended you, that was NOT the intention. Suggest you start your own thread, perhaps you'll get some insight on how to solve your problems. You probably need help.

 

For this thread, let's give Carriages all the help he needs.

[ladydesigner]

YOU mentioned your situation... I just commented. Sorry if it offended you, that was NOT the intention. Suggest you start your own thread, perhaps you'll get some insight on how to solve your problems. You probably need help.

 

I'm not offended at all. I don't see an issue with my comment and I have gotten help, thank you

 

My problems... my only problem is that I have decided to stay with a serial cheater.

[Carriages]

If the elephants that predate the affair were discussed and your wife didn't change.....what makes you think she is capable of doing so now?

 

They can't change. They are issues of temperament, extended family, intellectual connection and sex. They're all issues which are bound to be present in a lot of relationships but....... I seem to have copped quite a whammy. Over the years they've come and gone in terms of their destructiveness but the fact they're all there has always created in me a perpetual low level discontent.

 

In all this time she's been saying she wants you back. ...has she ever mentioned those issues?

 

No. We've talked about them all at one point or other, many times in fact, but she'll brush them off. And I don't push the issue because ultimately as I say.... they're things that can't really change.

 

I'm wondering if you've thought about the message you're sending to your kids. ....I'm not sure of their ages, but how healthy is it for them to see a marriage without love on both sides.

 

Absolutely. But the kids thought we *did* love each other.

 

If your kids visited you when you lived with the OW, do you not think they saw a more loving relationship then?

 

They would have, had they been permitted to meet her.

 

Normally a WS would be prepared to do the heavy lifting, be ever so remorseful and do anything for reconciliation.....but I don't see any of that in your posts at all. Maybe it's because your W is the one who wants this more than you and you feel you don't need to show remorse, because she's desperate to have you back.........is that the case?

 

I think it may well be. I have often wondered - if my wife truly looked like she was closing the door; would this trigger a wave of panic and genuine remorse??

 

Would you not prefer a relationship of equals? You seem to hold the power and there is rarely respect when one spouse holds the power.

 

Yes I would. I said to a counselor that I wanted a "partner". My wife didn't understand what I meant, or how she hadn't been one. The counselor did.

 

There are some relationships where one partner is more of a catch than the other.....usually where a stranger would see them and think....."He/she could do way better for him/herself".......Is that the case with you and your wife?

 

Not really. I think a lot of people might say that my wife could do way better for herself. The only comment I've had from a friend was that we have quite different "energies". I think I know what he meant, but it's hard to describe.

 

Sorry...lots of questions and comments from me, but I also wonder if your wife held out hope because you never filed for D.

 

Oh for sure. But the reason I haven't yet filed is that I'm not yet sure, and it really does feel like there's no going back from whatever decision is made.

[ladydesigner]

Carriages it sounds like you and your wife may show love differently? Have you ever read "The 5 Love Languages" by Gary Chapman? It might be worth reading by you and your wife.

[Popsicle]

Kevin Spacey in "American Beauty" would be a closer analogy.

 

I don't think so. He had some serious resentment towards his wife, there was no hope or thought of reconcilliation. You're probably more like Kevin Bacon in "She's having a Baby".

[sandylee1]

QUOTE=Carriages;6616344]Oh for sure. But the reason I haven't yet filed is that I'm not yet sure, and it really does feel like there's no going back from whatever decision is made.

 

Thanks. Yes the issues can be present in a number of relationships -it's how you handle them. Like extended family..The person whose family is the problems has to be able to keep them at bay where necessary.

But it doesn't seem that those issues you mentioned can be resolved......so why subject yourself to that again? I know if you hadn't left you may not want to leave because of those issues...but to go back to them. ..IDK..

 

I presume your wife didn't allow the kids to meet the OW ? She would have sought legal advice on that one. I can see that your OW

Probably never felt secure in this relationship either......not meeting your kids was a sign that she wasn't a permanent feature.

 

I said much earlier that you must have thought through leaving your wife a lot.......but now I think you didn't think EVERYTHING through

 

Like the age difference

Like not fully knowing the OW...in how she lacked empathy for your wife

Like realising although you loved the OW...you hadn't thought about your whole life with her...but just about leaving your wife

 

 

The fact that your wife doesn't or didn't understand what being a partner is.....well I just think it won't work with you guys.

 

 

You're just 46 and for a 25 year old to go for you...you must look pretty good......with that in mind have you considered finding a more compatible partner?

 

Do things like.....

 

- stepkids play on your mind in a new relationship ?

- Having children with a new partner at your age (not saying it's too old)?

- Your wife getting a new man concern you?

 

BTW.. at a younger age the kids might think your happy..but as they get older......They realise.....that's not quite a healthy relationship...or they think it's normal and go on to have similar relationships in the future.

 

Kids tend to think whichever way they are brought up is normal.....hence you get children of career criminals following a similar path....because it's all they've ever seen. That's their normal.

 

Just some things to bear in mind. Xx

[lucy_in_disguise]

I am just not seeing what is different between your feelings and relationship wih your wife now vs. before you had the affair and moved out that is making you question your decision. It doesnt sound like you have much remorse/ regret or any new kind of understanding... just more of the same indecision.

 

Indecision will destroy a relationship without an affair... I cant imagine trying to make it work after.

 

Until you are certain in your heart of hearts your wife is the one you want to be with for the rest of your life, I dont see any hope for a permanent reconcilliation. BtW That certainty is not something you can rationalize your way into, either. If having an affair and seeing yiurself hurt your wife didnt make it click for you, im not sure what will.

 

IMO you need at least a little passion and desire to make things work. Even more so to fix them when theyre so broken. It does not sound like you have that for your wife. Let her go.

[OldRover]

Carriages,

 

You still have some major hurdles to get though, and hope you're making progress.

 

The elephants can be solved, or at least minimized so that they are not an impact. Yes, it will take effort... perhaps a lot, and has to come from both sides.

 

You still need to address the remorse of the affair, which you somewhat allude to but seems like you have more to do.

 

I'll second "The 5 Love Languages" by Gary Chapman. I read the whole book to my SO, whom I got back with after 2 years of disconnect and divorce. It was a real challenge, as there was a major elephant that we faced, and did kill it. It continues to be work, but well worth it.

 

People DO change, but they can hold onto a lot of personalities, habits and actions that they may or may not feel are elephants. Needs to be clearly discussed on on the table, with a solution that both agree to.

 

You both have to be in 110%.....no less. Sure, you can have problems, but you must have a way to deal with them together and some boundaries and procedures on how to solve problems as the surface. There's excellent articles out there on how to do this.

 

How are you doing now? Well seeing her and communication continue? How do you feel about things?

[Carriages]

QUOTE=Carriages;6616344]Oh for sure. But the reason I haven't yet filed is that I'm not yet sure, and it really does feel like there's no going back from whatever decision is made.

 

I presume your wife didn't allow the kids to meet the OW ? She would have sought legal advice on that one. I can see that your OW

Probably never felt secure in this relationship either......not meeting your kids was a sign that she wasn't a permanent feature.

Yes, the situation was exactly as you describe. That said, the kids weren't particularly keen to meet her either. And yes, the OW did raise her eyes at the fact her and the kids were being kept separate. But it was early days.

 

I said much earlier that you must have thought through leaving your wife a lot.......but now I think you didn't think EVERYTHING through

 

Like the age difference

Like not fully knowing the OW...in how she lacked empathy for your wife

Like realising although you loved the OW...you hadn't thought about your whole life with her...but just about leaving your wife

The age difference was occasionally an issue, but no, I had indeed thought about a whole life with her. That's why, unlike the OW, I was reluctant to commit. I wanted to see how things panned out, talk about what our relationship might look like - but the OW wanted full commitment with a view to marriage straight away. And when I still wasn't in that place after 10 months, she withdrew.

 

- stepkids play on your mind in a new relationship ? Totally

- Having children with a new partner at your age (not saying it's too old)? Not gonna happen. The OW professed vehemntly to not wanting kids, but I suspect that attitude would've changed.

- Your wife getting a new man concern you?Actually no, not really. The presence of a man in the house around my daughters makes me feel a bit ick. But if my wife found someone that would help her find her voice and be happy I'd be all for that. At least that's what I say now; it hasn't happened yet.

 

Just some things to bear in mind. Xx

Many thanks

[Carriages]

Carriages,

 

You still have some major hurdles to get though, and hope you're making progress.

 

The elephants can be solved, or at least minimized so that they are not an impact. Yes, it will take effort... perhaps a lot, and has to come from both sides.

 

You still need to address the remorse of the affair, which you somewhat allude to but seems like you have more to do.

 

I'll second "The 5 Love Languages" by Gary Chapman. I read the whole book to my SO, whom I got back with after 2 years of disconnect and divorce. It was a real challenge, as there was a major elephant that we faced, and did kill it. It continues to be work, but well worth it.

 

People DO change, but they can hold onto a lot of personalities, habits and actions that they may or may not feel are elephants. Needs to be clearly discussed on on the table, with a solution that both agree to.

 

You both have to be in 110%.....no less. Sure, you can have problems, but you must have a way to deal with them together and some boundaries and procedures on how to solve problems as the surface. There's excellent articles out there on how to do this.

 

How are you doing now? Well seeing her and communication continue? How do you feel about things?

 

I'm not doing brilliantly, if I'm honest. Not sleeping, feel like crying all the time but the tears never actually come. I'm not even sure what I'm grieving. I'm definitely making progress moving on from the A - I'm starting to see things as they truly were, and no contact is holding for now (although we were in the same room 2 days ago).

 

I have been spending time with my wife, although trying not to go overboard so as not to confuse the kids. We talk. Being there gives me a sense of peace. But I just wonder if even doing this is using my wife in some way, that she's on her best behavior, and spending time in my family home is just a band aid..... and when the relationship became real again, all the pain and problems would come flying back to the surface. Some of the elephants have been talked about, others not......

[Carriages]

And....... now at work, just passed OW in corridor. Wound ripped open; back to square 1.

[OldRover]

And....... now at work, just passed OW in corridor. Wound ripped open; back to square 1.

 

Don't let it happen.... close the wound, forget and go on. You just didn't have enough time with her to be in love. You CAN forget.

[ladydesigner]

And....... now at work, just passed OW in corridor. Wound ripped open; back to square 1.

 

If you are planning on R'ing with your wife, it may be wise to look for a new place of employment. I can't imagine working with an xAP that you still have feelings for. It's like being around your drug of choice and having to resist and be tested on that on a daily basis.

 

I wanted to ask if you could list some of your wife's good qualities. Sometimes in an A we will paint our BS's in a negative way, a rewriting of the M so to speak so that it makes it easier to go forward with an A.

[Carriages]

I wanted to ask if you could list some of your wife's good qualities. Sometimes in an A we will paint our BS's in a negative way, a rewriting of the M so to speak so that it makes it easier to go forward with an A.

 

Yes, and I've been cognisant of this. But even at our "best" marriage times, there was always a feeling of having settled. The elephants in the room were not always overbearing, but they were always there, in the background, eroding away at respect and intimacy.

 

My wife's good points? she loves me, in spite of all that I've done. She has impeccable integrity. She is caring and empathic, always putting others first (almost to a fault). She has a dogged ability to assign herself to a task and get it done, whereas I give up as soon as things get hard. Great cook. Physically attractive.........

[Got it]

Yes, and I've been cognisant of this. But even at our "best" marriage times, there was always a feeling of having settled. The elephants in the room were not always overbearing, but they were always there, in the background, eroding away at respect and intimacy.

 

My wife's good points? she loves me, in spite of all that I've done. She has impeccable integrity. She is caring and empathic, always putting others first (almost to a fault). She has a dogged ability to assign herself to a task and get it done, whereas I give up as soon as things get hard. Great cook. Physically attractive.........

 

Carriage, did you notice that the first thing you mentioned, the first thing that came to mind for you about your wife is that she loves you in spite of what you have done. The first thing you can think of is something that is actually more about you than about her.

[ladydesigner]

Yes, and I've been cognisant of this. But even at our "best" marriage times, there was always a feeling of having settled. The elephants in the room were not always overbearing, but they were always there, in the background, eroding away at respect and intimacy.

 

My wife's good points? she loves me, in spite of all that I've done. She has impeccable integrity. She is caring and empathic, always putting others first (almost to a fault). She has a dogged ability to assign herself to a task and get it done, whereas I give up as soon as things get hard. Great cook. Physically attractive.........

 

 

Yes this seems to be a trait of most WS's. I would maybe focus on why you give up when things get hard.

 

Your wife sounds like a lovely person. Why do you think you settled? Is it validation maybe that you are seeking? I know when my own M got tough I wasn't showing my WH a lot of validation and he needs an excess amount of validation (something he needs to work on).

[Carriages]

Carriage, did you notice that the first thing you mentioned, the first thing that came to mind for you about your wife is that she loves you in spite of what you have done. The first thing you can think of is something that is actually more about you than about her.

Mmmmm.... thanks for the feedback, but no - I think you're jumping at shadows here.

[qubist]

My wife's good points? she loves me, in spite of all that I've done. She has impeccable integrity. She is caring and empathic, always putting others first (almost to a fault). She has a dogged ability to assign herself to a task and get it done, whereas I give up as soon as things get hard. Great cook. Physically attractive.........

 

Mmmmm people would die to find a woman like yours, they would do the impossible including a compromise on " chemistry". I hope you realize that before you hurt her to the point where she gives up or before you leave her for somebody else to appreciate.

[Got it]

Mmmmm.... thanks for the feedback, but no - I think you're jumping at shadows here.

 

I didn't given a conclusion or opinion. I pointed out what you wrote. Whether or not you care/want to deep dive it is up to you.

[Sassy Girl]

For what it's worth, I had the same observation as Both Got it and quibist.

 

So your wife has all those qualities and yet you think you've "settled".

 

That's quite an ego there.

 

I said it in my first post to you- counselling and introspection.

[Carriages]

Mmmmm people would die to find a woman like yours, they would do the impossible including a compromise on " chemistry". I hope you realize that before you hurt her to the point where she gives up or before you leave her for somebody else to appreciate.

 

I have done this all my married life. I've told myself "but she's XYZ!! She's a better person than YOU! C'mon man!!!". But I now believe this thinking is wrong. A mutually authentic, compatible relationship requires something other than an impressive list of personal attributes. Doesn't it??

[Sassy Girl]

Seems to me you're looking for something which doesn't exist. They key to your happiness is not in your chosen partner. It's in you. You're looking for a women who ticks all your boxes to make your own life fulfilling, but it's a pipe dream. She doesn't exist. It apparently wasn't your wife. You thought it might be OW because she was everything your wife wasn't, but that fell short of your expectations too and you wouldnt commit. You are the only person responsible for your own happiness. And you won't find it in another.

 

It's an impossible and unfair burden to place your happiness in your partner. Because if it were appropriate, how do you think you've fared ar making your wife happy?