I need........... support

[Carriages]

Yes this seems to be a trait of most WS's. I would maybe focus on why you give up when things get hard.

 

Your wife sounds like a lovely person. Why do you think you settled? Is it validation maybe that you are seeking? I know when my own M got tough I wasn't showing my WH a lot of validation and he needs an excess amount of validation (something he needs to work on).

You could be onto something here. In my marriage, I have always felt like I am nothing more than the sum of a collection of barely acceptable compromises. Whereas my AP gave me constant validation in spades (yes I'm sure they all do this).

[Carriages]

For what it's worth, I had the same observation as Both Got it and quibist.

 

So your wife has all those qualities and yet you think you've "settled".

 

That's quite an ego there.

 

I said it in my first post to you- counselling and introspection.

Yes I do think I settled. I stand by that. Firstly, I haven't listed her downsides, and the "elephants in the room" which have dogged me forever. Secondly, as I've said above, I don't think you can define relationship potential merely on a scoring system of attributes.

[Carriages]

Seems to me you're looking for something which doesn't exist. They key to your happiness is not in your chosen partner. It's in you. You're looking for a women who ticks all your boxes to make your own life fulfilling, but it's a pipe dream. She doesn't exist. It apparently wasn't your wife. You thought it might be OW because she was everything your wife wasn't, but that fell short of your expectations too and you wouldnt commit. You are the only person responsible for your own happiness. And you won't find it in another.

 

It's an impossible and unfair burden to place your happiness in your partner. Because if it were appropriate, how do you think you've fared ar making your wife happy?

Yes, this is true. In the past I have sought happiness from outside and, particularly in the early days thought the marriage ought to be providing it. Over the last year I have learned to let that go. However there is no doubt that the marriage was also making me unhappy, and prior to the A, I was much happier away from home.

[qubist]

Sorry I know you have been asked this here but one more time if I may ask< what 's preventing you from divorcing and moving on? I know you had mentioned the fact that she and the kids are begging you to stay, but are they any other factors?

[Carriages]

Sorry I know you have been asked this here but one more time if I may ask< what 's preventing you from divorcing and moving on? I know you had mentioned the fact that she and the kids are begging you to stay, but are they any other factors?

 

Cheers. Yes, of course. I get joy from the family unit. I enjoy being there. Being alone would be lonely. Divorcing would affect my kids, some would say forever. With my home, family and career I have it all! It's just the 1:1 relationship with my wife that has tensions, walls and a lot of ghosts. I'm *scared* of my post divorce existence. But I'm more scared of going back and it failing again.

[pteromom]

You need to move on - it isn't fair for you to go back to your wife feeling that you are settling for her.

 

Another option is to propose a "family marriage" to her, where you are co-parents and friends and roommates, but you (and she) can have your romantic/sexual needs met elsewhere. I actually know couples who live in this arrangement and it works for them.

[Cymbeline]

What exactly was the validation you received from OW? How did she express it? Doesn't your wife's continuing loyalty count as greater validation? If she's not doing it 'right' can you explain to her what you need?

[qubist]

Cheers. Yes, of course. I get joy from the family unit. I enjoy being there. Being alone would be lonely. Divorcing would affect my kids, some would say forever. With my home, family and career I have it all! It's just the 1:1 relationship with my wife that has tensions, walls and a lot of ghosts. I'm *scared* of my post divorce existence. But I'm more scared of going back and it failing again.

I feel for you, it is easy for me to say do x,y or z. but I know doing it isn't easy. I'm not a professional therapist so i don't know for sure if a state of acceptance could be reached in regard to your marriage. if it is reachable I really wish you can find it in you. I suggest you don't give up on it yet. talk to a therapist.

you other option is abviousely jumping over the big hurdle and just divorce, if you do that you can still find a way to stay close to your kids.

I wish I had anything else to offer other than wishing you all the luck

[Carriages]

Thanks qubist!

[ladydesigner]

You could be onto something here. In my marriage, I have always felt like I am nothing more than the sum of a collection of barely acceptable compromises. Whereas my AP gave me constant validation in spades (yes I'm sure they all do this).

 

So you feel like you have compromises in your M that were unacceptable? Have you voiced this to your BS? Has your BS made compromises in the M?

 

I have found throughout my 15 year M that we have always had to make compromises, some of them I would say we didn't even try to compromise on (which probably led to resentments).

[Carriages]

So you feel like you have compromises in your M that were unacceptable? Have you voiced this to your BS? Has your BS made compromises in the M?

 

I have found throughout my 15 year M that we have always had to make compromises, some of them I would say we didn't even try to compromise on (which probably led to resentments).

I think every marriage has things that are wrong, that you just have to learn to accept. In my case, there are a bunch of things, none of which would be a deal breaker on its own; but the sum of the parts becomes a monster.

 

Okay. Here goes.

 

1. Her extended family issues. Imagine the diametric opposite of the Brady Bunch. Totally dysfunctional as a unit and as individuals. I had already accepted her marriage proposal prior to meeting them.

 

2. Sex. It's important to me. Sometimes good; never once in our 25 years was it great. For either of us.

 

3. My wife is totally lacking in common sense, and pragmatism. Whereas I'm all about both. So many things she just doesn't "get" and has to be explained over and over. It's draining!

 

4. She has chronic (although not debilitating) anxiety, never really sought treatment for it, and it's made our family life much harder than it's needed to be.

 

Just writing those things I feel like a huge a**hole. But they are basically the issues which are stopping me running back right now in this fragile state I'm in.

[qubist]

I think every marriage has things that are wrong, that you just have to learn to accept. In my case, there are a bunch of things, none of which would be a deal breaker on its own; but the sum of the parts becomes a monster.

 

Okay. Here goes.

 

1. Her extended family issues. Imagine the diametric opposite of the Brady Bunch. Totally dysfunctional as a unit and as individuals. I had already accepted her marriage proposal prior to meeting them.

 

2. Sex. It's important to me. Sometimes good; never once in our 25 years was it great. For either of us.

 

3. My wife is totally lacking in common sense, and pragmatism. Whereas I'm all about both. So many things she just doesn't "get" and has to be explained over and over. It's draining!

 

4. She has chronic (although not debilitating) anxiety, never really sought treatment for it, and it's made our family life much harder than it's needed to be.

 

Just writing those things I feel like a huge a**hole. But they are basically the issues which are stopping me running back right now in this fragile state I'm in.

again I feel your pain, these might sound like small issues that you feel horrible mentioning, but when they accumulate they become a huge elephant. every marriage is like a vessel with a lot of potential pressure build-up when the pressure exceeds the high limit it must vent somewhere, and it always vents out of the weakest link of the vessel, in your case your affair provides the venting outlet, now you don't have that relief. guess what's the 2nd weakest link in the vessel? i'm afraid it's you. if you don't relief that pressure somehow you will pay the price somehow mentally and maybe physically too.

you mentioned before that you had always had these feelings toward here but when do you think it had escalated to this point? do you think it's related to your mid-age crisis? I suggest you start with a therapy first to see where you are before considering the second choice, which is blowing the vessel open ie: Divorce.

[OldRover]

I think every marriage has things that are wrong, that you just have to learn to accept. In my case, there are a bunch of things, none of which would be a deal breaker on its own; but the sum of the parts becomes a monster.

 

Okay. Here goes.

 

1. Her extended family issues. Imagine the diametric opposite of the Brady Bunch. Totally dysfunctional as a unit and as individuals. I had already accepted her marriage proposal prior to meeting them.

 

2. Sex. It's important to me. Sometimes good; never once in our 25 years was it great. For either of us.

 

3. My wife is totally lacking in common sense, and pragmatism. Whereas I'm all about both. So many things she just doesn't "get" and has to be explained over and over. It's draining!

 

4. She has chronic (although not debilitating) anxiety, never really sought treatment for it, and it's made our family life much harder than it's needed to be.

 

Just writing those things I feel like a huge a**hole. But they are basically the issues which are stopping me running back right now in this fragile state I'm in.

 

Carriages,

 

All of those are solvable. Some will take some serious work, but you need to decide if it's worth it.

 

As for the anxiety, you can get her help right away. That's almost always solvable.

[Ladyjane14]

I think every marriage has things that are wrong, that you just have to learn to accept. In my case, there are a bunch of things, none of which would be a deal breaker on its own; but the sum of the parts becomes a monster.

 

Okay. Here goes.

 

1. Her extended family issues. Imagine the diametric opposite of the Brady Bunch. Totally dysfunctional as a unit and as individuals. I had already accepted her marriage proposal prior to meeting them.

 

2. Sex. It's important to me. Sometimes good; never once in our 25 years was it great. For either of us.

 

3. My wife is totally lacking in common sense, and pragmatism. Whereas I'm all about both. So many things she just doesn't "get" and has to be explained over and over. It's draining!

 

4. She has chronic (although not debilitating) anxiety, never really sought treatment for it, and it's made our family life much harder than it's needed to be.

 

Just writing those things I feel like a huge a**hole. But they are basically the issues which are stopping me running back right now in this fragile state I'm in.

 

These are your "elephants"??? Seriously?

 

Guess what? EVERYBODY has a little baggage. In fact, the last person you got involved with has the baggage of being willing to screw somebody else's husband. There's some real baggage for you. And nobody gets to control what family they're born into.

 

Now, I'll agree your wife lacks a certain amount of common sense... because she should've given you your walking papers by now. That said, she's got enough "common sense and pragmatism" to keep her household afloat while you were out test-driving a 25 year-old who has more in common with your kids than with you. I'm not saying that to be unkind, but when you put the facts into plain language, it is what it is.

 

You didn't have any unsolvable problems, and if I had to make a guess.. I think maybe the biggest majority of what's stopping you from reengaging in the family is that you don't want to face the music for what you've done.

 

Here's the skinny on that though.... You're ALREADY the guy who walked out on his family for a girl young enough to be his daughter. That's your legacy right this minute. And if your kids don't have the intellectual or emotional capacity to wrap their minds around it today, someday they will. Someday, they'll have commitments of their own and children of their own, and they'll look back and view your choices through that particular prism.

 

Again, I'm not trying to be harsh, but your situation isn't a pretty one. In the cold light of day, you flaked out. Even now, you're looking at the marriage as causal, when there's clearly something going on inside YOU.

 

If memory serves, I think you're in IC. My suggestion would be to get a better one. You need somebody who's going to get you on a more intensive schedule and who won't molly-coddle you while you sort out your inner conflicts. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain; you already "feel like a huge a**hole" just from writing the list. You're in this twilight area right now before things start going down ugly. Make the most of it while you can.

[OldRover]

These are your "elephants"??? Seriously?

 

Guess what? EVERYBODY has a little baggage. In fact, the last person you got involved with has the baggage of being willing to screw somebody else's husband. There's some real baggage for you. And nobody gets to control what family they're born into.

 

Now, I'll agree your wife lacks a certain amount of common sense... because she should've given you your walking papers by now. That said, she's got enough "common sense and pragmatism" to keep her household afloat while you were out test-driving a 25 year-old who has more in common with your kids than with you. I'm not saying that to be unkind, but when you put the facts into plain language, it is what it is.

 

You didn't have any unsolvable problems, and if I had to make a guess.. I think maybe the biggest majority of what's stopping you from reengaging in the family is that you don't want to face the music for what you've done.

 

Here's the skinny on that though.... You're ALREADY the guy who walked out on his family for a girl young enough to be his daughter. That's your legacy right this minute. And if your kids don't have the intellectual or emotional capacity to wrap their minds around it today, someday they will. Someday, they'll have commitments of their own and children of their own, and they'll look back and view your choices through that particular prism.

 

Again, I'm not trying to be harsh, but your situation isn't a pretty one. In the cold light of day, you flaked out. Even now, you're looking at the marriage as causal, when there's clearly something going on inside YOU.

 

If memory serves, I think you're in IC. My suggestion would be to get a better one. You need somebody who's going to get you on a more intensive schedule and who won't molly-coddle you while you sort out your inner conflicts. You have nothing to lose and everything to gain; you already "feel like a huge a**hole" just from writing the list. You're in this twilight area right now before things start going down ugly. Make the most of it while you can.

 

Ladyjane14,

 

Very good post and a lot of good info that Carriages can learn from.

 

I suspect he's still grieving the 25 yr old, and needs to strongly get that behind. It IS possible. It was a short encounter, and he CAN get over her. While I don't feel it's totally necessary to totally get that behind before going back to the wife, it does need to get to the point were is mostly gone and will not come back. NC is a must, even if he has to change jobs or position.

 

But, he's still in a state of confusion. He has to figure out that the elephants are all solvable and make a commitment to solving them, AND putting his wife back into a 110% commitment.

[sandylee1]

Cheers. Yes, of course. I get joy from the family unit. I enjoy being there. Being alone would be lonely. Divorcing would affect my kids, some would say forever. With my home, family and career I have it all! It's just the 1:1 relationship with my wife that has tensions, walls and a lot of ghosts. I'm *scared* of my post divorce existence. But I'm more scared of going back and it failing again.

 

But you left for 15 months......to live with another woman...wasn't that like being divorced as far as the kids were concerned.

[sandylee1]

I think every marriage has things that are wrong, that you just have to learn to accept. In my case, there are a bunch of things, none of which would be a deal breaker on its own; but the sum of the parts becomes a monster.

 

Okay. Here goes.

 

1. Her extended family issues. Imagine the diametric opposite of the Brady Bunch. Totally dysfunctional as a unit and as individuals. I had already accepted her marriage proposal prior to meeting them.

 

2. Sex. It's important to me. Sometimes good; never once in our 25 years was it great. For either of us.

 

3. My wife is totally lacking in common sense, and pragmatism. Whereas I'm all about both. So many things she just doesn't "get" and has to be explained over and over. It's draining!

 

4. She has chronic (although not debilitating) anxiety, never really sought treatment for it, and it's made our family life much harder than it's needed to be.

 

Just writing those things I feel like a huge a**hole. But they are basically the issues which are stopping me running back right now in this fragile state I'm in.

 

If you've mentioned all these things before to her...with no change....why would expect any difference now?

 

If anything most people become less tolerant with age....so its likely to be much harder since you haven't had to deal with it for a while.

 

Of course..One of the things she can't change is her family....but you can't teach common sense. I think you'd just end up being extremely irritated with her.

 

Do you find her undying love for you a concern? As in how can she still love you after the betrayal.

 

Depending on the age of your kids....do you think about the message you might be sending them......that it's okay for dad to have a GF........leave mom......then come back when he and his GF are over?

 

I'd be concerned about what they think they should tolerate ...... especially as they are girls. I'm not trying to be mean or anything, it's just that I know I'm very concious about my daughters especially, seeing me accept things that I wouldn't want them to think are right from their dad.

 

You know how little girls love their dads so much.? Would you want your daughters to go through what your putting your wife through?

 

I can imagine her dysfunctional family don't think much of you at the moment as well.

[cocorico]

I think every marriage has things that are wrong, that you just have to learn to accept. In my case, there are a bunch of things, none of which would be a deal breaker on its own; but the sum of the parts becomes a monster.

 

Okay. Here goes.

 

1. Her extended family issues. Imagine the diametric opposite of the Brady Bunch. Totally dysfunctional as a unit and as individuals. I had already accepted her marriage proposal prior to meeting them.

 

She cannot change her family, but she can change how she interacts with them, and the extent to which they impact on you and your family. If she is unwilling to compromise on this - and it sounds as though she is - then this will only get worse. You need to decide if you can accept this. (It would be a dealbreaker for me!)

 

2. Sex. It's important to me. Sometimes good; never once in our 25 years was it great. For either of us.

 

This might be something you could do something about. Sex therapists exist for a reason. But if the issue isn't the sex itself, but a basic level at which at least one of you is not attracted physically to the other, then it won't be fixable. But it could be something you could try, and then review later to see if you think progress has been made.

 

3. My wife is totally lacking in common sense, and pragmatism. Whereas I'm all about both. So many things she just doesn't "get" and has to be explained over and over. It's draining!

 

This is unlikely to change - and, from her perspective, why should she? It's how she is, and you either accept her, or move on. Trying to change someone else doesn't work. You can change your attitude to how she is, or accept that you can't deal with it, and move on.

 

4. She has chronic (although not debilitating) anxiety, never really sought treatment for it, and it's made our family life much harder than it's needed to be.

 

No doubt her anxiety is also behind her wanting you back at any cost.

 

This is probably the easiest to fix - if she's willing. If she's not, you have your answer - she expects you to suck it up and deal with it for her. Again, you can try to change your attitude to this, but if her unwillingness to seek help - to save your M - sticks in your craw, you'd be better moving on.

 

Just writing those things I feel like a huge a**hole. But they are basically the issues which are stopping me running back right now in this fragile state I'm in.

 

I'd say these are a mix between 1) can you live with things as they are, knowing they can't change; and 2) could you live with these, knowing she could change but is unwilling to do so, even to save your M? The latter, of course, requires that you actually give her to opportunity to try, and that you tell her how important it is to you ie that your M depends on it.

 

You need to decide how far you're prepared to compromise, and to live with the inevitable resentment, on this if she's not willing to do her bit.

[Carriages]

Do you find her undying love for you a concern? As in how can she still love you after the betrayal.

Yes!!! Absolutely. Of course there's no "right" way to behave in these situations; but if she had distanced me, gone NC, picking up kids on the driveway etc. etc I would have a whole lot more faith in her own self esteem and thought processes. The thought "do I want to be with someone who thinks so little of herself to unconditionally beg for my return after what I've done?" does go through my head from time to time. I'd have though she should accept nothing less than a full 180 on my part, with overt humility and remorse.

[sandylee1]

Yes!!! Absolutely. Of course there's no "right" way to behave in these situations; but if she had distanced me, gone NC, picking up kids on the driveway etc. etc I would have a whole lot more faith in her own self esteem and thought processes. The thought "do I want to be with someone who thinks so little of herself to unconditionally beg for my return after what I've done?" does go through my head from time to time. I'd have though she should accept nothing less than a full 180 on my part, with overt humility and remorse.

 

Thanks.......I didn't want to put it quite so clear as you have..but it's what I thought. She should have done the 180 for herself.

 

I know it's always nice that someone loves you .....but at a point it moves from love to a lack of self respect in my opinion.

 

one sided love isn't as great as great as its cracked up to be.....unless you're the type of person who always wants to be worshipped and feels superior to your partner.......and there are people like that out there.

[Carriages]

Right! Here's what I'm doing. This has gone on for long enough.

 

I'll never be able to respect my wife if I go back with anything less than the full 180, with full remorse. So I'm going to do what we should have done a year ago. No contact, for anything unless to do with the kids. I'll give it two weeks. If I haven't achieved remorse and clarity by then, I don't think I ever will. And it'll be time to move on.

 

Thoughts?

[CarrieT]

I'll never be able to respect my wife if I go back with anything less than the full 180, with full remorse. So I'm going to do what we should have done a year ago. No contact, for anything unless to do with the kids. I'll give it two weeks. If I haven't achieved remorse and clarity by then, I don't think I ever will. And it'll be time to move on.

 

Thoughts?

 

Two weeks is NOTHING in the grand scheme of all you have gone through. Why are you putting a finite date on expecting results?

[lucy_in_disguise]

My thoughts are that the person you should be doing NC wih is the OW.... with whom u continue to work...also, 2 weeks, really? Its going to take a lot more time than that to gain clarity.

 

Although, I think you just dont love your wife.

[qubist]

Right! Here's what I'm doing. This has gone on for long enough.

 

I'll never be able to respect my wife if I go back with anything less than the full 180, with full remorse. So I'm going to do what we should have done a year ago. No contact, for anything unless to do with the kids. I'll give it two weeks. If I haven't achieved remorse and clarity by then, I don't think I ever will. And it'll be time to move on.

 

Thoughts?

Bad Idea in my honest opinion, if she lacks self esteem do you really expect her to gain it in 2 weeks, not even the best therapist in the word can promise that. I suggest you do go take a break from her and limit your interaction to kids issue( stay away from the other girl). go see a therapist, I'm afraid you would regret this in the future, at least give it one last chance. if it doesn't work you would have justified divorce.

[burnt]

Carriages,

 

You should consider going back with your wife right away. I'd argue to not put anymore time and distance between you if you really want to be successful with her.

 

Your wife is very understanding to want you back, and you'll have to prove to her that you want the same, and it will take time and work to reestablish your trust and relationship.

 

Respectfully, disagree. This maybe the best 'move' for you, but not for your wife.

Time and space are key essentials for both you and your wife to process and come to terms with everything that has happened. Time and space bring perspective. Going back to your wife right away may be the most comfortable option for YOU--this way you get to fill the void right away; but your wife has had to go through the the experience of being abandoned. It is not my intention to say 'you deserve to suffer too…', but what I really mean is that it is necessary for you to spend some time alone to experience the loneliness of being abandoned to develop genuine empathy for what both women went through.

 

The other issue here is: if you go back right after you got dumped by OW, your wife will away feel that maybe you ran back to her because you lost your OW, not because you really loved your wife; this doubt in her mind can be incredibly hurtful for her--to have her husband back in the picture, yet not be really sure if she is loved truly or not.

 

Finally, from your comments, if you're still willing to 'take back' your OW, then you are really not 100% certain that you love your wife that much. Don't go back to your wife giving her hope, when you yourself are not sure yourself.

 

As several others said, you need to work on understanding yourself, with an honest effort and willingness to introspection.

 

You are struggling with conflicting emotions--and I hear you. But Allow time to help yourself get clarity.