True Romance...

[ShatteredLady]

My H appologised for the past. OW replied...

 

"I have nothing but genuine & fond memories. Truly :-)

 

Don't be so hard on yourself. Life is too short to live with any type of regret. If I don't have any hard feelings neither should you.

 

The kids & I are doing wonderfully (.....although still hoping to move somewhere north of here) we smile daily & I hope you do too.*

 

Whatever you're going through, I'm so sorry to hear. I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers, and I will always hope for and welcome your contact.

 

Regardless of where you go, what you say, or what you do, you will always be on my list of amazing people.....because you ARE an amazing person. Don't let anyone tell you otherwise (or at least don't believe them!!)

 

At some point this week, promise me that you relax with a hot cup of tea (or maybe a cold beer), and smile as you think about the time you fell overboard on the river. And if you can't do that, just let me know....I'll send ya the pic. ;-)

 

Wishing you a silver lining and emotional peace,"

 

 

This is the 2nd mail she sent...

 

"and this is one of MY favorites.

http://Http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=B7u6bMBICXw

 

I will ALWAYS wonder (&daydream) about what might have been, but it will be in a happy way, not a melancholy way. I am simply grateful that I got to experience that moment of intrigue and emotional connection. I have learned to look at it as "enough.....enough now". :-) its a happy memory that fulfills me.

 

I have an enormous respect for the man that you are. You have always demonstrated extreme loyalty & compassion, and that should make you stand tall. Not many people posses those characteristics to the extent that you do, and surely it's one of the most treasured traits that you are already passing on to your children.*

 

So be proud & confident, cherish your family, make special memories, and occasionally remember the good times. If the memories make you smile every now and then, let them. You deserve to smile.

 

Be well, my friend, and try to focus on the silver linings.....

I will prey that god wraps his arms around you."

 

I can't get that YouTube link to play. Can anyone help me? Sorry if it's something rude but knowing them it will be something slushy & PG rated at worse.

 

Does this sound like a love relationship that been going on & off for 12 years? I don't think so. If I find they were writing during my pregnancies there's NOTHING that could save our M. NOTHING!!

[xxoo]

SL, forget the OW and her emails. I'm sure it wasn't ongoing for 12 years, although he may never have released the fantasy over those years.

 

What about now? What is his attitude now toward supporting you, loving you, romancing you, and making you feel like the most loved woman in the world? Is he doing a good job?

[William]

Folks, I had to substantially prune a moderated post which had personal information in it and a quick scan finds other tidbits of personal information being shared back and forth. Since LoveShack.org. promotes anonymity in discussing of interpersonal relationships, we can suggest to members to be careful in their sharing of personal information but members are the final arbiters of what they publish.

 

This advisory is mainly to describe our process. Posts published in accordance with our guidelines are generally never edited nor deleted, regardless of reasons, so keep that in mind when posting. Thanks!

[ShatteredLady]

The other thing I need to clear up....

 

My H wasn't posting on others forums saying he was miserable.

 

This all started with him writing a passive aggressive, directed at ME & me only post on my chronic pain forum. It wasn't a 'real' post asking for help. It was conflict avoidance, whilst the A was going on & he was sending Soooo many gifts.

He waited 3 days over the Christmas holiday for me to read it. He has said that it was a terrible thing to do. I was blindsided! I had felt the distance since Nov when they started romancing again but I'd been recovering from serious surgery which had made my spine pain 'flare' so our social life had been poor.

 

It was NEVER years of misery leading up to this! When I was bedridden, I was playing with the kids, my H was laying next to me. He lost his temper & did something bad which threw him into a terrible self depricating depression. His usual "I love you. I'm a bad husband & father. You deserve so much better" kind of thing.

This is how it started. He was a loving, supportive H when I was very first sick. Then he lost his job & was overwhelmed having to take care of the kids more than usual. By Halloween I was getting better & trick or treated, did costumes etc. I thought things were getting better but lots of other things were hitting me. I was depressed. It's very unusual for me to be down. I think ME being depressed & not 100% on helping his depression caused a weakness...

[ShatteredLady]

66 Charger (Quote) "Perhaps you should give "shattered Lady" a rest for a bit. Really take a look at your husbands efforts without being told "to hell with him" He may not be doing EVERYTHING right but is he doing what HE THINKS is right?"

 

THANK YOU!!

 

I feel like my life has crumbled, SHATTERED in the last year. I fought so hard to be the best wife, mother, daughter & friend I could be. So, so, so many things have happened & they're all beyond my control. I know I'm obsessing on this! This I can analyze. I can search for evidence. I can make plans. It feels like the only manageable aspect of my life. No matter how painful it is.

 

If I subtract the 2 horrendous years I'm still left with 23 years of "us" & we have been pretty fantastic at times. What hits me so hard is how ALIEN my H becomes. No-one who knows us would believe this possible. I didn't believe this possible!! I haven't spent the last 12 years dwelling on his A. I still say "I WAS MORE CONCERNED FOR HIS MENTAL HEALTH than anything else!".

I know many can't let go of A's but I did. So many huge things happened & my H was wonderful. Maybe it's because I viewed his A 12 years ago as a mental breakdown more than anything else. He now cries when I remind him of abusive things he did.

If this hadn't happened again, if he hadn't brought her back into our lives I would still be waxing lyrical about how great our love is....but...the last 12 years have vanished!! Does that make sense?? Our life has become then & the last year.

[World's.Edge]

I detest and am by no means supportive of adultery, but even I can acknowldge that an affair can be real and involve real love. It's possible to foster and establish love and a genuine relationship in an affair. This is the case in some instances. I'm also fully aware affairs can be contained fantasies that only exist in deceit and shadows and once exposed to the light, their bubble shatters and they're revealed for the sham and facade that they are.

 

The real stuff is where you share your life. The hard stuff. Not the easy stuff. So he sneaks around with a girl. Who is caring for his kids? Helping pay his bills? Taking care of him, his family when they're I'll? Who shows up with him to weddings, funerals, events?

Us BWs have the relationship. We have the hard work. The love and all the hard parts that come with it. Bills. Illness. Family concerns. We have the public standing. The acknowledgement that we are the legitimate partner.

 

Those determinants of real love that you listed are negligible and mostly obligations that aren't limited to marriage.

 

One can attend weddings, funerals and events with friends and family or acquaintances and professional colleague. Family, friends, roommates, tenants, can all help pay the bills. And also what about situations of single income households where the unemployed spouse's contribution to bills is non existent? Friends and family can also help to raise and take care of children (divorced couples too) and suffer and be supportive through illness.

 

There are many situations in which those can exist but true love isn't present. Such as with couples who married young and have grown apart and fallen out of love with one another, in marriages where the couples only wed because of an unplanned/unexpected pregnancy, in a marriage where a spouse is unknowingly married to someone who is a closeted who hasn't disclosed their homosexuality, or due to social pressures and obligations.

 

Not having those things doesn't mean that the relationship isn't real, it just means that the relationship hasn't developed far enough to include those things yet. Real love is determined by the two people involved, how they treat and feel about each other, their committment to one another and how they choose to share their lives with one another. Any other factors are superficial and negligent and fall away. The love has to be mutual and reciprocal, if only one person loves the other, then it doesn't exist.

 

The mistress gets the easy romance. The wife gets the true love.

This entire sentence is flawed because true love wouldn't involve a love triangle.

 

 

this is not about me. Why are you quoting another post of mine for poor SLs problem?

I included that post because I recall your thread and what you've written in this one seems odd in relation to your story and contrary to your experience. Your history includes a situation where real love existed in an affair but you write that it can't exist in an affair. I didn't post in your thread before because I thought you were a troll, but now it seems that you're just in deep deep deep denial or deluded.

 

Off course you don't want to accept that affairs can result and evolve into real relationships, you're still hung up and pining for your ex husband. You don't want.. no, you can't accept his relationship and marriage as legitimate because then that would mean accepting that you two will never be together and that's probably too painful for you.

 

If you stand by what you wrote about what constitutes real love, your ex husband has all of those with his wife. The bills, public standing, illness, the acknowledgement, family concerns, being called Mrs, etc. Would you conclude then that his marriage is one of real love?

Edited October 25, 2015 by World's.Edge

[66Charger]

One of the things you write about is loss of control. But have you really lost control? Or are you not exercizing that which is right in front of you. Perhaps it is time for you to stop asking questions and start demanding behaviour changes, after all, it is YOUR decision if this marriage goes forward or not. Who is asking to stay? Who is trying to make it right?

 

You started this thread about romance and the way you want to be treated by your husband. As long as your going to TRY to reconcile, DO IT YOUR WAY. Put divorce on the table, not as a threat but as a reality. Not because of the Ea, but because his slow turning male brain aint getting it. Then, help him to "get it" Men really would like a list. Many may say he should know what to do. He should know what to say. But what if he doesnt? Is his"love language" that of a provider? You said he is a 1 +1 = 2 guy. He needs written instructions.

 

Write out the list. Make it long. Make it sweet. No complaining about what he shouldnt do. Change his love language. Dont forget to ask him for his list and to let him know that your list is NOT a request. Then watch for your "list items" or something similar.. Do not let a list item pass without showing appreciation.

 

Its time for him to step up. Not as a provider or a freind or even a "comforter of pain" , but as a husband that loves his wife as a woman. Do or die time. Dont ask for change. Demand it.

 

I am just a poster and i may be completely wrong on this , but you do have more control than you think. Use it wisely. What do you have to lose?

[underpants]

Nah, she is going to stay put, like she did 12 years ago (before the anchor children) elicit 'sympathy' where she can find it and move one when the well is dry.

 

There is a phenomenon of into/extrovert narcissist relationship dynamic that is somewhat interesting in this case.

 

A victim status can be a tool.

[Lion Heart]

SL

 

I know you are feeling low and frankly it's all I can do not to cry myself reading this. You have been through so much and honestly are so strong but wow what an a"se your ex earthworm is.

 

This may or may not help. I've read it all and a few things come to mind.

 

He is a cruel person.

 

His attacks and misrepresentations aren't actually about you. This is what he is doing: he knows he is wrong. He feels so much guilt that he has to try to justify his behaviour to try to make it "okay". The more guilt he feels, the more he has to slam you to justify it to himself. Because the OW doesn't care why earthworm is with her. What benefit would she enjoy from his put downs and insults? This is earthworm trying to soothe himself. So just know earhwormd guilt is HUGE. AS IT SHOULD BE.

 

You mentioned that he goes to forums that you frequent and posts horrible things. I want to give you this;

 

"If you say you hate me and I worthless but you watch everything I do..... B@tch YOU'RE A FAN!!"

 

Please repeat this to yourself A LOT.

 

And for the record I am a fan of you. You're a top lady.

 

NL

 

Sweet Lady (better name thanks Mrs Adams), this ^^^^^, gosh I HOPE it's "guilt" your WH feels! I'm sorry but I saw the same horrible behaviours in my WH (serial cheater past tense yet to be seen) right from D Day virtually. Sure he had moments of "um what have I done?" But nowhere near the magnitude I'd see in a man who had any guilt to speak of let alone REMORSE.

 

I AM NOT BLAMING YOU when I say this. I believe your husband's actions and words show RESENTMENT. My WH came clean last night and said HE DOES STILL feel resentment towards me. For SO many things. Some so incoherent that I can't believe it really. But there it is.

 

Resentment would look like continued bitterness maybe that you've pieced it all together (as I have too). Angry outbursts. Gaslighting increased. Unloving words and actions. And I still believe your WH does not take responsibility for torturing you with this OW.

 

Guilt, imho looks different to this ^^^^ I've described and REMORSE looks COMPLETELY different to both. The realization OH MY GO* moment and complete humility and full responsibility taken. NEVER an utterance of "BUT you.......".

 

Still I go back to my previous post and echo other's advice - focus on your SELF!!! Yes your children and ofcourse your trip. But primarily YOU. YOUR health depends on your focus right now.

 

The sooner you learn how to focus on YOU PRIMARILY the faster and more efficiently and more sustainably you'll heal.

Your children are little. They need you. You need you. You are an important and WORTHY human being.

 

You can do this.

 

Lion Heart.

[Doublegold]

"Who has an authentic life with unperturbed moments and not a carefully constructed facade to maintain for a few stolen hours a week?"

 

BlueDress-there is nothing authentic about a Marriage with a wandering spouse. Enough of the comparsions of who is more than because of this that and the other. It's an inauthentic life for all involved in the triangle. To read these words of "who does he take to funerals and weddings" and how the Marriage APPEARS to society, family etc is pathetic. Is that what your Marriage meant to you--what others thought? How you were regarded by others? Not all Marriages are built to last, and not all affairs are "a few stolen hours a week".

 

As far as LS -- It pains me to read a woman who is hurting physically, emotionally and mentally to such a large extent. One can sense her slipping toward an abyss and I hope that SL receives the help and support she needs quickly. I am not sure her husband is invested in her best interests at this time.

 

Take Care of yourself.

[ShatteredLady]

Wow Underpants. Would you explain more? I think I know what you're saying. Why would you say that? Will you say more?

 

My perception of me posting on this forum....

Just desperate really. I started posting after New Years Day before I knew there was any OW. My first post was about my H's forum post. I didn't think I'd be writing here after that. I was a mess & I felt I couldn't speak on my usual pain forum....for various reasons.

I'd been writing a lot on the pain & support groups for a couple of years & know how it can feel to have that occasional 'real' connection with people who truly get it. It's also become something I enjoy so it seemed natural to write on a marriage forum when that became my problem.

 

Do you think there's a negative to speaking on forums the way I do on LS?

 

I've always been a helper, not an advise seeker on my health forum. I'm a support giver not seeker. My pain forum is my only real experience of being on one & it's VERY, VERY different than this kind of forum.

I've lived venting in support groups so I don't 'bring it home'. No-one wants to hear about physical pain. It's too boring!! Really.

 

Why do you think it's wrong for me to ask for support here?

Edited October 26, 2015 by ShatteredLady

[World's.Edge]

Shattered, what do you actually plan to do?

[Got it]

Shattered, I wanted to offer my observation so take it for what it is worth.

 

I think there are multiple issues going on that have snowballed and somehow/some reason you are left shouldering the pieces.

 

1. Your health - this has had a tremendous impact on your marriage and your family. Have you considered that your husband is not a strong enough person to handle it correctly and in a supportive manner? That he could do it at first, in the short term, but long run has crumbled under the emotions, expectations and pressure? I am NOT saying this to add guilt to you! This is his failing. Statistically there are a high number of marital issues, divorces, and affairs when one SO is very ill and much higher when it is the woman. Instead of him seeking IC, or other healthy coping mechanisms, he fell into more a fantasy of an affair? It was his escape from the pressures of daily life.

 

And so this may be why he didn't actually get physical, that wasn't the purpose, but did continue to "pull her off the shelf" at times or to reconnect to be reaffirmed. Maybe he was dealing with some feelings of anger, unjust, etc?

 

2. Your emotions - Are you in therapy yourself? I suspect you are dealing with guilt on two fronts, from your illness and then some level of ownership of the affair? I think you have to work through those feelings, separate what you could control and what you couldn't and accept, to some degree, what was outside of your control. Maybe you are still working through the feeling of lack of control that if you had some responsibility/control of him having the affair then you can have control of it happening again? Which, unfortunately is not true.

 

You are left in an extremely vulnerable state with the combination of the two. This leaves you really floundering on resources and support. So again, a support group and therapy would be very helpful for you. It is hard, to be dealing with two massive life events and to feel alone in doing so. My heart goes out to you.

 

3. Your marriage now - So you are also still in a measuring stage on comparing your relationship and his affair and weighing who got what. This is very normal but don't stay stuck in it. I think acknowledging that there are things you want is great. And I don't see any reason why you can't ask for them or expect them, i.e. the romance. The original marriage is dead since the affair. This is the new marriage so you can write the expectations for this marriage and wanting the romance is very reasonable. Remember you did gift him with reconciliation. You do know that right? I think you feel, maybe, that you are stuck in this so you aren't seeing as a gift to him and maybe more of a "have to" as potentially more of a bluff as you don't see a way out? I think you focusing on what you would do if you did divorce, that you grew strength in that area would be very helpful for you. Then you would see you are in the marriage because you want to be, not because you have to be. Does that make sense?

 

I am not saying divorce or not divorce. I saw my parents rugsweep issues for years and all they did was fester. Neither one really pushed to deal with the issue and no one made them "a hill to die on". And these issues SHOULD be hills to die on.

 

Your situation is compounded so much it is a testing ground for even the most self assured person. Please don't settle for less, you are so much more than an unhappy marriage. Please focus on getting mentally, emotionally, and physically healthy for you and everyone else will benefit. Whether or not he is worth staying married to is your decision.

 

But make sure he is actually moving heaven and earth to show you every day that he loves you. You deserve nothing less.

[truncated]

op,

 

It's time to stop worrying about what your husband and this ow did/ do mean to each other. If the text of the messages sent between them that you have posted is a true representation of how they feel, it' seems very shallow anyway.

 

Time to start thinking about yourself and your children. You all deserve far better than he is capable of giving you, and you really do need to accept that you can not fix him.

 

It sounds like he has a lot of problems, and you can't help him. He has to help himself, but he is not willing to do so.

 

Something you wrote stood out to me. You say he acts really badly towards you when he's actively cheating, but when he's not, he treats you a lot better.

 

That could be guilt on his part ( lashing out at you because he feels guilty and it's easier to be angry than it is to face your actions), but it could also be that he only has so much "good behavior" in him, and when he's spending it on her, he has none left for you.

 

If he isn't willing ( or able) to give you what you need, then going your own way is probably for the best. That doesn't render the good times you had with him meaningless. You have your children because of them:), but sometimes, relationships just aren't meant to be forever.

 

Be selfish and think of your kids and yourself first. Whatever choices you make, put your kids and yourself first.

[ShatteredLady]

I had a 'Crazy Lady' weekend & am a little embarrassed to of documented it here. Thankfully so many of you have been incredibly supportive & HELPFUL. I have a lot more focus now.

 

We are definitely returning home. It's completely the right thing to do for so many reasons. Because of the age & educational needs of my children it's not right to move them before next summer. Summer break is much longer here so it will give me a couple of months to get settled, kids tested etc.

 

Other than cost there wouldn't be any difference in where I have my surgeries. I have specialists organized here & time isn't on my side. I've reached out & found support for driving/helping with the kids, which is HUGE!! They've even offered to help with cooking etc!

 

I won't tell my parents until I know the results of the first surgery. Our situation is a bit different from many. They've been through so much & aren't getting any younger. They know I'm planning on returning home & are thrilled. They need me as much as I need them.

 

I can't remain here. I'm too isolated & vulnerable now (That's one of the things that's hit me the hardest). My H understands & plans to return with us.

[minimariah]

A mistress can pretend to take a few hours from a wife and family and kid herself that it means as much or more. That she knows more. She is a part of more. But an afternoon here and there doesn't substitute years of being with somebody.

 

you seem to think that form matters more than the substance & that quantity matters more than the quality and you make all of your conclusion based on that. for you, it might be true. but for many, it isn't.

 

this is exclusively your point of view.

 

SL, i hope you get better. please, take care of yourself & put your health first.

[66Charger]

Looks like you took control to me. Heal. In every way.

[merrmeade]

I had a 'Crazy Lady' weekend & am a little embarrassed to of documented it here. Thankfully so many of you have been incredibly supportive & HELPFUL. I have a lot more focus now.

 

We are definitely returning home. It's completely the right thing to do for so many reasons. Because of the age & educational needs of my children it's not right to move them before next summer. Summer break is much longer here so it will give me a couple of months to get settled, kids tested etc.

 

Other than cost there wouldn't be any difference in where I have my surgeries. I have specialists organized here & time isn't on my side. I've reached out & found support for driving/helping with the kids, which is HUGE!! They've even offered to help with cooking etc!

 

I won't tell my parents until I know the results of the first surgery. Our situation is a bit different from many. They've been through so much & aren't getting any younger. They know I'm planning on returning home & are thrilled. They need me as much as I need them.

 

I can't remain here. I'm too isolated & vulnerable now (That's one of the things that's hit me the hardest). My H understands & plans to return with us.

Very satisfying to read, SL. All of this was written from a standpoint of what is good for you and your children. I absolutely love that the last sentence is almost an addendum, and it's above kind of you to consider allowing him to accompany you. But either way, you're making decisions that will get you out of your isolation and vulnerability. You've inspired me.

[NewLeaf512]

I had a 'Crazy Lady' weekend & am a little embarrassed to of documented it here. Thankfully so many of you have been incredibly supportive & HELPFUL. I have a lot more focus now.

 

We are definitely returning home. It's completely the right thing to do for so many reasons. Because of the age & educational needs of my children it's not right to move them before next summer. Summer break is much longer here so it will give me a couple of months to get settled, kids tested etc.

 

Other than cost there wouldn't be any difference in where I have my surgeries. I have specialists organized here & time isn't on my side. I've reached out & found support for driving/helping with the kids, which is HUGE!! They've even offered to help with cooking etc!

 

I won't tell my parents until I know the results of the first surgery. Our situation is a bit different from many. They've been through so much & aren't getting any younger. They know I'm planning on returning home & are thrilled. They need me as much as I need them.

 

I can't remain here. I'm too isolated & vulnerable now (That's one of the things that's hit me the hardest). My H understands & plans to return with us.

 

Come back to Blighty with us

[NewLeaf512]

Sweet Lady I mean it. When you're on home soil you will at least be on mental and terra firma where you have people who love you around you and familiar places and faces. You know how the UK operates and what can be done in a post office and unless you come from Dartmoor you don't needs a car. Forget him for now. Get you and the children ready and come back. This will all come good.

 

Xx

[66Charger]

Take your WHOLE family. Do it right.

[ShatteredLady]

Both of my kids have said on different occasions that they'd like England to be the next country we live in! It's the correct choice for us in so many different ways. We currently live in a huge dream house but there are rooms we only go into once or twice a year so no great loss. There are a LOT more important things in life!

 

My best friend stays with us several times a year & my children adore him. They miss family & so do I...desperately! I find the more physically AND mentally hurt I am the more I miss HOME. I've always called England home. This is the first time I haven't been able to see & sit next to the Thames in my life. I know it sounds strange but that old river is part of me. It calms my soul...& has fantastic pubs!!!

 

The logistics of such a huge move are daunting but having a plan, knowing I'm doing the right thing for ME & the kids has helped with my sanity so much more than the little bottle of pills my doc gave me.

 

I don't know where my life is going but I'm certain it's headed in the right direction.