no proposal

[organge]

well, i think i have a very old problem. I am 29 and my boyfriend is 31. we have been together for over 1,5 years. we started living together almost immediately (within 1st month of dating). officially we moved in together 7 months ago. when we started dating i was clear and said that in next year or two i am aiming to have a family. if his intentions are not serious the dating/ going out would not happen. from the begging (and now) he is talking about children together, where we want to settle down etc.

 

this january 4 of my friends get engaged and one day we talking marriage. he said that i am very bad at solving conflicts and until i have not learned how to solve the conflicts ( i have a tendency to run away if people are screeming at me)he cannot propose to me. I said that he knows me well enough, we have been living togeter for more then a year and that i am not ready for any kind of trials. either he accepts me as i am (obviosuly not perfect) or he can look for someone better.

 

then (that day and constantly for last 4 months) he says that loves me the way i am and wants to marry me bla bla bla. since then he is telling me that he will propose very soon, that he will ask my parents next weekend and so on. and it never happens. it's been 4 months now. previosuly we were looking for a house together, now we are doing that much less actively.

 

i am in limbo. i want to know what is happening and what to do, i love him dearly. i feel i am going crazy from thoughts that he doesnot love me, that i am begging marriage, that he is using me and wants me to stay just because it is convinient for him. Overall, if this is not working I want to have a new beggining - the sooner the better. I am now doubting everything in the relationship - his/our love, the bond. i feel like every day which is going past is slowvly killing my love for him. basically i am very unhappy in the relationship.

 

my initial thinking was to give him time till 1st of september to propose (he doesnot know this). if that is not happening by then - i would move out. i dont know if i can wait till september now, because i am just so unhappy now. the question is - what should i do - give him time till september or leave him now?

[Jas]

Do you think he is the type that wants to make it a big surprise for you - and that is why things are going the way they are?

 

Some guys are pretty bad liars and when they are planning something they often overcompensate to hide their trails.

 

I don't mean to get your hopes up, but just an idea.

 

More importantly- how trustworthy is this guy? If he says something - does he keep his word? I guess that's the most important question to ask yourself. If he has no integrity - ditch him!

 

You say you run away from people screaming at you and you have poor conflict resolution skills - is he the one screaming at you? And expecting you to deal with that in a different way? How the two of you conduct your disagreements should be one thing to examine.

 

But back to my original idea - could he be saving up for a ring or waiting for the right moment? I wouldn't let your anticipation get the best of you by blowing up and storming off, ending the relationship - just because he may be up to something. If you've got to know NOW and can't wait any longer, just tell him how you're feeling in a calm, honest manner and if he is someone you want to spend the rest of your life with - he should be understanding of what you're going through.

[NatoPMT]

he said that i am very bad at solving conflicts and until i have not learned how to solve the conflicts ( i have a tendency to run away if people are screeming at me)he cannot propose to me

 

i agree with jas that he shouldnt be screaming at you - if he is.

 

But i also think that his concern is a valid one...

 

either he accepts me as i am (obviosuly not perfect) or he can look for someone better.

 

this sounds like you are inflexible concerning how you can work together and grow as a couple. if this is how you deal with issues that he's committed enough to discuss with you rather than ignoring, you arent giving him any committment back to him as to growing as a person, let alone together. everyone has aspects of themselves that arent perfect, but i wouldnt accept an imperfection on my behalf as just who i am, id jump at the chance of improving myself if someone told me i was difficult in some way. people are dynamic in that they constantly chang due to experience, could you make this an opportunity to be happier by tackling those conflicts?

 

and by the same attitude as your own, shouldnt you just accept him for who he is and accept his excuses when he doesnt propose - or find someone better.

[jmargel]

organge,

 

You are forcing him to propose to you. That's not the way it should be done. It should be when he thinks he is ready and when you think you are ready. Whenever there is a strong doubt then there is nothing wrong in slowing it down.

 

I would suggest counseling for you both. No one should take another person screaming at them, but from what I learned people have different definitions of this word. Just being felt disappointed or scolded could be determined as being screamed at by another. The slightest raise in voice can be considered a yell by another.

 

Counseling would be beneifical for you both. Learn to communicate better. If you make him do this, he's going to be resentful and will prolong the wedding date. Don't you want him to propose to you knowing that in his heart he's doing it because he truly wants to and not feel that he has to, to keep you?

[Jas]

I don't think it sounds as though she's forcing him to propose at all.

 

I think it is important to establish each other's expectations at the beginning of a relationship - which she did. It's not that she asked him for a guarantee that they would be married - but said her intent was to date seriously and start a family within a few years. Now, if he didn't see this becoming a reality - he shouldn't be supporting her vision by making promises he isn't sure he can keep.

 

If he really feels the way he says about her (loves her the way she is, wants to marry etc.) then he should come clean and let her know what the hold-up is about. If it is just more time that he needs - he should be upfront about that.

 

Maybe he is uncertain, needy or manipulative and is trying to hold on as long as he can. You've got to consider all the angles, I guess.

 

I do agree that each partner should make efforts to improve behaviors that put strain a relationship - but at the same time you cannot bank on that person changing. If you're planning on marrying someone, you'd better be prepared to be with the person you are with NOW...rather than counting on improvements down the line. Just my .02

[RecordProducer]

First relax! Nothing is so dark as it seems to you. I've had exactly the same feelings as you but everything will be ok for me. When you stop begging for a ring, he'll do it if he loves you. Wait until September then give him an ultimatum. You live with him already. Enjoy your love. Try to be more perfect!

[NatoPMT]

If he really feels the way he says about her (loves her the way she is, wants to marry etc.) then he should come clean and let her know what the hold-up is about. If it is just more time that he needs - he should be upfront about that.

 

He did, he told her he needs her to handle conflict better or he wont propose. I think thats pretty upfront about why he wont propose.

[organge]

BigBelm 'He did, he told her he needs her to handle conflict better or he wont propose. I think thats pretty upfront about why he wont propose.'

 

after that I told him that I am already doing my best. That i am leaving in the middle of the argument because i feel the things he and I say during argument are hurtful and ruins relationship more then a brake in middle of the argument (when i run off). and that in a way he is triggering my behaviour - because he is the one who starts raising voice / screeming (it takes two to argue and I am not running off when arguing to other people). He said he understands and is fine with that and can accept. that his concern was that one day running of like this i will pack my bags and leave..i said that i just needed a calming down time in order not to say/hear hurtful things. he was ok with that.

 

Also I said that if he thinks he cannot marry me beacuse of that we should split up then and there, because as a rule - people dont change. And that I am not agreeing to any kind of trials for good behaviour. He said he understands now and there are no concerns to marry me - that he could ask me now but it is stupid to ask in the middle of the talk like this. this was 4 months ago.

 

as for porposing there has been no action. except few talks when he says of, i wanted to propose then and then again and then. basically nothing happens.

[NatoPMT]

Hi organge

 

Sounds like he needs to handle conflict better more than you – your running away sounds designed to protect yourself. As jmargel said learning to communicate better would be your first steps, through counselling possibly. You didn’t really clarify the screaming at each other comment in the first post, and it did concern me when I read it as it’s the most destructive way to get a point across. Shouting and saying hurtful things to each other is an erosion of respect and love, and if the hurtful things are said ‘in the heat of the moment’ then they are often designed to have as much impact as possible rather than to truthfully represent his views. The damage is very difficult to reverse so he has to stop the shouting NOW. If you are to communicate properly, disagreements absolutely have to be discussed with a level head, representing how you truly feel and delivered with the purpose to work together to find a compromise rather than to deliver as many insults as can be fitted in one breath. If then he says something hurtful, you know its his true feelings and you don’t have to try to sift out the insults from the reality, resulting in meltdown and fleeing the room. And then you can’t feel hurt by the truth as it won’t get you a solution. If he didn’t shout, you wouldn’t run off, but something has to break that cycle.

 

“that his concern was that one day running of like this i will pack my bags and leave..i said that i just needed a calming down time in order not to say/hear hurtful things. he was ok with that. “

 

That’s good that you have headed off his insecurities – he does sound unsure of the future and that’s not the environment that will prompt a proposal, unless its to trap you together & make you less able to run off. And no-one wants that. Even if he says he’s ok with that, if your joint behaviour is still the same, then the insecurities will still be there.

 

“Also I said that if he thinks he cannot marry me beacuse of that we should split up then and there, because as a rule - people dont change”

 

They do change, all the time. People are changing every day with every conversation and experience they have. If you believe you wont change, then how can you? I have changed – immensely. I know cheaters that don’t cheat anymore, crazy chicks who have made peace with themselves, and once happy people that are no longer happy. You seem to believe that you are stuck with who you are, I got that from your first post too.

 

I think he does want to marry you. I would stop concerning yourself with the proposal, and start concerning yourself with overcoming these niggles that are preventing you becoming happier together. You may be thinking that the proposal will be the balm to soothe your relationship, it wont be. Tell him you are willing to get over the issues you have spent a lot of time identifying, then get to counselling, or TALK to each other

[CurlyIam]

I think that if he really wanted to marry you, he would have set up a date, something like: "we'll get engaged in 6 months, one year, 2 years from now".

 

 

 

In his book, he is telling you the truth, on the other hand. He does want to marry you. Some day. And that obviously isn't good enough for you.

 

You're thinking about this issue over and over and over again. So either you let it go and just enjoy being in a relationship with him, giving up your hopes for a marriage anytime soon, or you'd just have to move out.

 

I think you both have different expectations from this relationship. I also think that he used the way you act during fights as an excuse to get out of the marriage thing.

 

 

 

 

One thing's for sure: he does not want to marry you anytime soon. You can either take it, like RP did and hope for a change of heart, or leave it. It all depends on what you want and on how badly you want it.

[RecordProducer]

Originally posted by jmargel

organge,

 

You are forcing him to propose to you. That's not the way it should be done. It should be when he thinks he is ready and when you think you are ready. Whenever there is a strong doubt then there is nothing wrong in slowing it down.

 

He's been slowing down things to 8 years! Couldn't be slower than that. We only live 80 years if we're extremely lucky. Not to mention that the youth lasts too short.

 

Organge, if you're not sure that he will ever marry you then don't waste anymore time with him. Leave! If he loves you and wants to marry you, he will run after you and propose. If he doesn't (after 8 years), it means he would have never married you. He doesn't need anymore time to get to know you any better. You're right, people don't change. You may change your behavior, but not for the sake of marrying him. After all, his fault (screaming at you) is a terrible one. He is the one who should change.

[NatoPMT]

Record Producer:

 

You're right, people don't change

 

i disagree with that until i am blue in the face. i accept others dont disagree, but who on earth ever stayed the same all their life?

 

jmargel said slow it down because they have only been together 1.5 yrs and they moved in together after 1 month

 

Why should she just leave? theres a good reason for him not proposing, dont you think she owes it to herself to get to the causes and not just turn on her heel and walk away from 1.5yrs (not 8 years btw)

 

if she DID just walk away: 1) she will be no wiser as to why she's just shut the door on someone she wants to marry. 2) If he does propose to keep her, its the wrong reason for a proposal and the chances of a lasting marriage must surely be decreased 3) she'd blunder through life demanding what she wants and turning her back on people that love her because she wasnt getting her own way.

 

i agree if they truly have differing goals in life then the chances are she should walk away, but i think they have much more to discuss to discover if that is the case.

[gamegirl]

Organge,

 

Couldn't pass this without answering simply because I am also 29 and my bf 31 but we have been together for 4+ years. So maybe this will help you. We have joked before about marriage and my bf always said that we need more time etc. So years have gone by and we've kept breaking up and getting together and I came to the conclusion that a lot has to do with that end that you never see, that blurry line of commitment. Through the years I have tried to enjoy the time as much as possible, I've tried to forget about commitments and such. But time goes on and you come back to it again and again. My point is, if you are in for the serious haul, you can't let it slide. Won't work.

 

So, here's the skinny. I was 25 when we started dating and now 29. Another 5 year down the line and where would that leave me? With what?

 

Our relationship is a bit complicated as our families are so that has always been a factor in not taking the step to make some kind of a decision. However, I gave my bf an ultimatum. I told him he needs to decide what's going to be regardless of what his family or my family wants. Boys will be boys.

 

I agree that everybody needs to take their time and it should come natural. But at 25 my chances of meeting, liking, dating, and perhaps marrying someone are much better than at 35. Not to mention having kids. I don't want to have them when I'm 40. None of that matter to men. I let him know that. I told him he can come back with a proposition and a ring, otherwise we are nothing anymore. He said he would decide within 1-2 months. I doubt that he will come with a positive decision (for me) but at least I would know.

 

Bottom line, if you let them linger they will for as long as they can. Marriage for men is giving up their freedom and they will avoid it at all costs. But you don't want to spend 5 or 10 years of your life in a limbo. You need to be firm and tell him and give him time to decide, 1-2 mo max. You want this to be resolved. Oh, and another thing, make sure he knows -- lots of fish in the sea. You want a man who cherishes you, not be somebody's convenient date.

[organge]

well, thanks to everyone!!!

 

I have totally wonderful news - he proposed this monday. he took time proposing because he wanted to have wonderful proposal - he chartered the plain for us, took me to the beautiful castle and proposed. (and on the way he gave all kind of reasons for the tri so at no point i thought he is doing that for proposal). it turns out that he, my sister and my best friend have been looking for a ring for me for last 2 months. the ring is beautiful, beautiful!!

 

also he said that actually the conversation triggered him to propose and that he thoughts seriously and wants to be with me.. that before he met me he thought 1,5 years is too early to propose. but that with me he has that feeling that he wants to propose. and he is the one pushing earlier wedding date and to start the arragements now

 

as for communication - we have passionate relationship and therefore cannot always calmly discuss things as in business... and i may sound strange but i even like those passionate arguments and dont mind him raising voice..

 

but yes, if this would not have happened - i would have left him in september. because i think that everyone deserves to be loved fully and if the guy doesnot want to marry you, they dont love you

[Jas]

:: pats self on back ::

 

I was right! Those tricky guys getting us all nerve wracked and worked up - only to suprise us in the end!

 

Congrats orange, sounds like you had a proposal you'll never forget!

[NatoPMT]

CONGRATULATIONS!!!!

[RecordProducer]

Congratulations! I envy you!

[CurlyIam]

Congrats! That's a wonderful thing, what just happened to you!