Getting power back in marriage

[Oxytocin_junkie]

So I have spent more time researching this topic than I care to admit. Through Internet searches, one can pull up an abundance of information on how to have the upper hand with women, even PUA techniques for marriage... Yet whenever I see a woman asking how to have the upper hand, and basically have more game in her relationship, the responses are usually a bunch of admonishments for her asking the question in the first place.

 

I'm married with a two year old that loves both of her parents very much. My husband and I are both attending individual counseling. Couples counseling is not an option right now because of the nature of past problems that have occurred... Although those problems are no longer an issue, I often feel emotionally vulnerable, which tends to affect my ability to function as well as I'd like. Basically, things are nice for a while, and then he starts withdrawing and getting easily annoyed with me. I try bringing things up in nice and pleasant ways, to which he responds amicably enough, but with no changes. Eventually, I withdraw and try to hide my pain and isolation (we live near no family or close friends and I work and do school from home). It is then that he starts asking me what's wrong until I finally tell him, and then he tells me all the reasons I am wrong for feeling the way I do. The in validation gets to me, and I get emotional, he gets cold, and I am left feeling more worthless and pathetic than ever. Then he gets really nice again until I get tired of keeping my walls up, he withdraws, and the cycle continues.

 

As I already stated, we are both in counseling. My being cold is just too outside my character, and I hate the interrogations that go along with it. Being upfront just sets me up for emotional destruction, which I can't handle right now, as there is so much I am trying to do, and I need to be emotionally available for my daughter. I really don't think my husband is self aware enough to know what he does. Some things I will still be upfront about, but the withdrawal thing just isn't effective to bring up.

 

Sexually, things have dwindled because of lack of time and energy, but we still have sex 2-3 times a week. He gets mad when he doesn't get head for too long, so I find myself panicking when we try to do it and our daughter won't go to sleep, which he said makes him feel like a monster (and I know is just unattractive), but I can't help it.. This anxiety about him being angry with me makes me consent to sexual things I don't necessarily want, especially after fights. I love kink and bdsm, but when I am feeling hurt, I just want to feel loved and safe. I do my best to keep up my appearance with our limited income, and I have a decent figure, though a little underweight from all the stress.

 

What can I do in order to maintain a position of self respect in my relationship? I want to remain open in order to give therapy a chance to work, but I need to feel emotionally secure at the same time. I need real advice here. Please no judgments. I will do what is best for me and our child, but for now, while I ascertain what that is, I just need to know what is effective. I need to know I can have the upper hand if I want it, even if it is through some slight manipulation, so I can feel whole while figuring this out. Of course nothing that would hurt him- just ways of acting more confident than I am, and not feeling so vulnerable so this relationship won't hinder the work I am doing on myself. And I do want things to work. To thrive.. For all of our sakes. But I really need some survival techniques in the meantime.

 

Any ideas? How do I step up my marriage game?

[StBreton]

What kinds of things do you have just for yourself ...outside of being a wife/mom ...hobbies/interests?

[StBreton]

Oxytocin is a hormone ...the cuddle hormone

 

OxyContin is the drug

[Mr. Lucky]

Please no judgments. I will do what is best for me and our child, but for now, while I ascertain what that is, I just need to know what is effective. I need to know I can have the upper hand if I want it, even if it is through some slight manipulation, so I can feel whole while figuring this out. Of course nothing that would hurt him- just ways of acting more confident than I am, and not feeling so vulnerable so this relationship won't hinder the work I am doing on myself. And I do want things to work. To thrive.. For all of our sakes. But I really need some survival techniques in the meantime.

 

Any ideas? How do I step up my marriage game?

 

What does any of this have to do with bettering your marriage?

 

If you want things to "work" and "thrive", you own your own end of the deal, that's the best you can do. You seem like a smart person, if manipulation and control are on your shopping list, I'd guess there's lots of games, sexual and otherwise, you could figure out.

 

What's your goal?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Oxytocin_junkie]

S2B.... We've worked primarily on mindfulness stuff. She even says I shouldn't be totally open at this point due to past domestic violence issues (last real incident was 3 years ago), so says I should avoid topics that make me feel unsafe - even emotionally. We have a child together and he is in therapy and trying... I just want to feel confident and not so "less than" in the meantime. The oxytocin username is just a reference to how addicted I am to affection and connection.

[Oxytocin_junkie]

Mr. Lucky- my ultimate goal is to thrive and better the marriage, but there is the matter of my emotional survival in the meantime. When I know that in won't be emotionally destroyed when I bring something up, I will be more open. I prefer it. But while I heal and try to figure things out, I want to know how to handle things in a more empowered way until the playing field is.... fair. This may never happen, but I can't exactly give it a chance when I am thins anxious all the time.

[Oxytocin_junkie]

Stbreton- I used to write songs and sing and perform in NYC. That was fun. I had lots of friends in college, and a tight group of friends. A lot of that slowly dissolved, and I live an entirely new state. My family was abusive, so I don't talk to them much. I currently assess and council people for my job, and that is in line with my interests because I am passionate about psychology. In love guitar, hiking, reading, and being out and singing and dancing badly. No time for any of that, and that's okay because I know it's temporary.. I just want to get through this period with enough confidence and sense of self so that I will still remember who I am later.

[T-16bullseyeWompRat]

There is a few things you can try on your end, so I'll start with that. I'll address the alarming statement on your end first. In a healthy relationship, one should never desire to have the upper hand nor feel the need to manipulate to gain the upper hand. Instead both parties work together as a team to figure out and work towards a common goal. While I don't believe your intentions are necessarily sinister, and I can certainly understand where they are coming from, it is important to be mindful of these thoughts. You are wasting time and energy entertaining them when you can do so much more for yourself instead.

 

Which brings me to my next tip. Focus your energy instead on yourself. Don't make excuses not to make time for yourself either. Yes you are a wife and mother. You have a responsibility to invest time and energy into these things. but you also have a responsibility of taking care of yourself. It sounds like you spend a lot of time at home. Take some time away for yourself! Go do things you want to do. Painting with a twist, or spa day, or join a gym, pick up a hobby somewhere. The more you get out, the more likely you are to make friends. It won't happen at home. Both of you could probably use a little time away from each other. Make this about YOU though. You are working, going to school, raising a child, and probably doing a good share of housework to boot, still have the energy and desire to give your man lovin' three times a week!! I don't know if men are allowed to say this but, you go girl!! You have earned YOU TIME. Start cashing in and live a little. I promise it will help both you and your relationship. Getting away from each other a little more often sounds healthy at this point in your relationship.

 

The next step is to really start to figure your communication issues out with your man. This is the tough part of the work and where it sometimes takes forcing yourself to work on this issue. But you have to try. Get some books, and talk to about in your IC sessions. Good communication skills will come in handy in every conflict you come across. Learn how to fight properly and productively. Once you can properly communicate your emotional needs with him, you put the ball in his court. A real man will step up to this challenge. If you have done all you can do for yourself, your relationship, and communicated your needs in a way where there is complete understanding on his end. Then you have done all you can. The ball is in his court at this moment... Time to see what kind of man your really have. The kind who will step up and meet those needs, or neglect them.

 

Keep your mind focused on what you can control, which is you. Not a situation, or another person. Identify a goal you can obtain, and work towards it. Stay positive! And don't work yourself to death either jeez, go get a massage!

[Mr. Lucky]

But while I heal and try to figure things out, I want to know how to handle things in a more empowered way until the playing field is.... fair.

 

I often feel emotionally vulnerable, which tends to affect my ability to function as well as I'd like. Basically, things are nice for a while, and then he starts withdrawing and getting easily annoyed with me. I try bringing things up in nice and pleasant ways, to which he responds amicably enough, but with no changes. Eventually, I withdraw and try to hide my pain and isolation (we live near no family or close friends and I work and do school from home). It is then that he starts asking me what's wrong until I finally tell him, and then he tells me all the reasons I am wrong for feeling the way I do. The in validation gets to me, and I get emotional, he gets cold, and I am left feeling more worthless and pathetic than ever. Then he gets really nice again until I get tired of keeping my walls up, he withdraws, and the cycle continues.

 

It would seem you also have a hand in how this plays out. Are you putting all the responsibility and/or fault for this on your husband?

 

Mr. Lucky

[Poutrew]

Oxytocin is a hormone ...the cuddle hormone

 

OxyContin is the drug

 

 

 

Wow, what a wicked ride if these substances were combined in the right proportions...

[Oxytocin_junkie]

Mr. Lucky- I'm past caring about fault. I was in therapy in order to have more control of my emotions, because my PTSD symptoms came back. I learned a bunch of skills about effective communication, and I am much more in control of my emotions than I used to be. I am triggered by my reality being completely denied, so I try to avoid those situations. Walls are necessary when I am trying to stay functional and avoid a fight. I know it's not ideal, but it's honestly no different than what he does all the time- he just hates it when I do it.. I don't think either one of bus even does it on purpose. Okay, let's forget all the dramatics. Simple question: a girl you are into has been distant and disinterested.. Would you rather whine about it or be more covert and make her want you? I need to know how to act confident while I work through all this. We are both working through things, and I am upfront with most things, but me bringing that kind of thing up just makes us both uncomfortable. And when he is uncomfortable, I start panicking (internally but he can tell), and his defenses go up, and he can be rather cruel in those times. I want to know how to prevent all this **** while we learn how to stop triggering each other.

 

I basically want to know how to do what he does (minus any disrespect), but in a more feminine way. How do I act when he is distant and easily annoyed with me? How do I say no to degrading sexual acts during emotionally vulnerable times? How do I stop caring if he is angry? I feel like my self worth depends on him sometimes, and I know that's my issue, but I have to learn to fake it 'til I make it, because nothing can change when we are interacting in such an unhealthy way. Yes, I know upfront and open is best, but I think I need to treat this sort of like we are dating again, as I learn to trust him, because so many hurtful things have been said and done. I know some vulnerability is necessary, but I'd rather not put my whole self on then line right now, as I am trying to do so much, and I can't afford to fall apart.

 

I want to learn to have game. Not to hurt or make him do things, but to maintain self-respect and have less fights. Being upfront is not effective right now. I know that will need to change, but for now, we both need to just enjoy each other.

 

If I have ways of handling certain situations, my anxiety won't take over, and eventually my mind will catch up. So any ideas?

 

S2B no neither one of bus has ever cheated

[StBreton]

Stbreton- I used to write songs and sing and perform in NYC. That was fun. I had lots of friends in college, and a tight group of friends. A lot of that slowly dissolved, and I live an entirely new state. My family was abusive, so I don't talk to them much. I currently assess and council people for my job, and that is in line with my interests because I am passionate about psychology. In love guitar, hiking, reading, and being out and singing and dancing badly. No time for any of that, and that's okay because I know it's temporary.. I just want to get through this period with enough confidence and sense of self so that I will still remember who I am later.

 

Oxy ...I asked because it is important for "game" so to speak. I wouldn't have called it that but it works for your purposes. I think you've lost your sense of self ...hubby knows that and senses you're weak. You say you do not have time but you must make some time. Maybe get involved with children's choir at church ...anything musical or pursue another of your passions ...your solace for keeping your game face on will be the things that bring you inner peace and joy that you have in your back pocket ...they will help keep you ever so slightly confident and removed from your situation. Please make time for yourself.

 

When he's annoyed with you ...go to your happy place ...your interests that you say you do not have time for but are really your savior in this.

 

The sex acts ...tell him no but tell him when it works for you ..."not now but tomorrow afternoon"

 

Your self worth depends on who you are and what you enrich your life and the lives of others with ...if you do the above ...he can't touch you ...it's your separate piece (or peace) funny how both homonyms work there

 

You may have gotten in this hole partially because you stopped taking time for you. Do not negate it now by saying you do not have time. It's a circular reasoning concept that you don't realize you've jumped into

Edited October 25, 2015 by StBreton

[Oxytocin_junkie]

St. Breton- you are right. I guess taking time to do things that feel like me is essential in order for me to succeed in other areas of my life. I'm barely holding it together the way I'm going. I can't act like my happiness doesn't depend on him because it has so much since getting pregnant and moving here. Our little family feels like all I have, and it's hard not to feel empty and sad when I don't feel valued. It was so much easier to do this before having a child, but to be honest, I thought it was just the dynamic that shifted- not that I wasn't taking any time to myself.. Like I knew I should do it, but it didn't feel related. The sex advice is good.

 

Any thoughts on what I should do about the oral sex situation? Basically, the other night, we planned on it, but our daughter was kind of sick and just would not sleep. He hadn't gotten head in 2 months (Ive been swamped with grad school etc), and I warned him it might not happen that night, but we would do it soon if it fell through. Well, around 1 am, I'm getting anxious, and he's getting angry, and we're both feeding off of each other's tension. He starts telling me how I make him feel awful for no reason, and I apologized and said I had a paper to write the next day, and he usually gets angry when something like this happens, so I was anxious. He said he was angry but not at me, but he was acting pretty angry with me, mostly because my being anxious made him feel bad on top of being sexually frustrated. So he rants a bit and throws a laundry basket. Soon, he apologizes, and comes to bed. The next day, he wants to have sex. He baby was asleep, so I end up suggesting I give him head, to which he whole heartedly agreed. The thing is, I didn't want to do it, mostly because I didn't want to reinforce his behavior from the night before, but I wanted to get it over with so he wouldn't resent me. I don't normally feel that way about it, except in high pressure situations. Did I handle that right? Part of me feels like it just made me look weaker.

[StBreton]

I know it isn't easy ... If you told him you'd be there for him like that then try to work it in. Try to look at it like it's something you do for him and not who's winning. Honoring your commitments to each other doesn't make you look weaker.

 

I don't like the fact he doesn't cut you some slack and puts pressure on you ...and has issues with anger /takes it out on you ... He has childish temper tantrums ... He lacks patience ...when kids are little ...time can feel like a black hole ...but it passes quickly. Hubby needs to understand and cope till the tough times are past.

 

The above are 2 separate issues ... You can do the top one but certainly your husband has got to work on the second one. I would discuss with him and tell him this behavior is unacceptable. I don't want to suggest a consequence for his actions ...discuss that with your therapist.

Edited October 25, 2015 by StBreton

[Downtown]

[The therapist] even says I shouldn't be totally open at this point due to past domestic violence issues (last real incident was 3 years ago)....

Oxy, are you referring to violence done to you by your husband or family? How serious was this physical abuse? And, given that it was "the last" incident, how many times did he do it previously? I ask because you describe your H as having a serious anger issue and your FOO (family of origin) as abusive.

[Oxytocin_junkie]

Downtown- it got pretty serious for a bit. Went to counseling for a year after I got a concussion, and subsequent nonstop panic attacks. Wasn't all that serious, but it was usually after him misinterpreting something when drunk, and he doesn't drink much anymore. No real violence since I got pregnant, and the severity of it dramatically declined after that when I informed him I would tell friends every time something happened. Honestly, most of the time he is very laid back and funny.. But he's like impervious to pain.. I don't think I could hurt him if I tried. But the anger scares me, which is why I try to call stuff out soon so it can be hashed out before it builds up. I realize this is a potentially serious issue, and I will leave if I need to, but things are already better than they were, so I'd like to make this work as long as it is feasible and safe to.

[Mr. Lucky]

S2B.... We've worked primarily on mindfulness stuff. She even says I shouldn't be totally open at this point due to past domestic violence issues (last real incident was 3 years ago), so says I should avoid topics that make me feel unsafe - even emotionally.

 

Pretty much changes everything I've said. I'll bow out...

 

Mr. Lucky

[Downtown]

Downtown- it got pretty serious for a bit. Went to counseling for a year after I got a concussion, and subsequent nonstop panic attacks.

Oxy, perhaps his anger issues are largely due to his past drunkenness, as you suppose. An important issue, however, is whether his angry, abusive behavior is due to his alcohol abuse -- as you suspect -- or, rather, both the abusive behavior and drunkenness are caused by a third factor: strong traits of a personality disorder.

 

I mention this because the repeated physical battering of a partner or spouse by an adult is strongly associated with that adult having strong traits of a personality disorder, particularly BPD (Borderline Personality Disorder). Intense, inappropriate anger is one of the nine defining traits for BPD. Indeed, 3 of the 9 defining traits for BPD contain the term "anger" or "rage."

 

If your H were a BPDer (i.e., were to have strong BPD traits), he would carry enormous anger inside from early childhood. You therefore would not have to do a thing to CREATE the anger. Rather, you only would have to do or say some minor thing that triggers a release of the anger that is already there. This is why a BPDer can burst into a rage in less than a minute -- oftentimes in only ten seconds. Moreover, BPDers have very weak control over their emotions. Indeed, the key defining characteristic of BPD is the inability to regulate one's own emotions.

 

For these reasons, the physical abuse of a spouse or partner has been found to be strongly associated with BPD. One of the first studies showing that link is a 1993 hospital study of spousal batterers. It found that nearly all of them have a personality disorder and half of them have BPD. See Roger Melton's summary of that study at 50% of Batterers are BPDers. Similarly, a 2008 study and a 2012 study find a strong association between violence and BPD.

 

I therefore suggest you take a quick look at my list of red flags at 18 BPD Warning Signs. If most sound very familiar, I would suggest you also read my more detailed description of them at my posts in Rebel's Thread. If that description rings many bells, I would be glad to discuss them with you. I caution that, if you do conclude your H is exhibiting most BPD warning signs at a strong and persistent level, it would be very unwise to tell him about your suspicions. He almost certainly would project them back onto you.

 

Finally, I ask whether you and your H are seeing the very same therapist? I ask because, if strong BPD traits are relevant to your situation, your best chance of obtaining candid professional advice is to see a psychologist who has never treated or seen your H. That way, you are assured the therapist is ethically obligated to protect only YOUR best interests, not his. Take care, Oxy.

[veryhappy]

You are asking how to have some power being a codependent in a relationship with an abusive ******* who had to shift from outright slamming you into a wall to throwing stuff and mentally abusing you.

 

You can't. People who feed on power won't give it up voluntarily. That's why you had to force him to stop hitting you by threatening public disclosure.

 

You are being abused. Giving him blowjobs for fear of punishment, walking on eggshells clear signs of abuse. If he needs his blowjobs so much, put them in the family budget. Hey love here go get one every two weeks and leave me alone. Good sex is always consensual, anyou are not consenting.

 

I am sorry to tell you, the only way to feel what you want to feel is to break up with this guy. Then again, he's the kind that would threaten to kill you if you do that.

 

Put an end to the sex at least. You're better off letting him go eff whoever he wants and you just coparenting in the same house.

[Dolfin80]

Your panic attacked and anxiety is your body trying to warn you that you are being sexually and emotionally abused by your spouse.

 

The only way to ever get rid of those panick attacks is to leave him.

 

I lived liked this for a few years with a spouse he had narcisstic personality disorder. Once i left him i never had another panic attack or anxiety again. I was again safe.

[Oxytocin_junkie]

Downtown- he is actually pretty uncomfortable with emotion- he considers it a strength to not have much of it.. He does feel things, but it's all muted besides the anger. We are seeing different therapists, though.. Thank you so much for taking the time to give me all this information in such a well thought out response.

[Oxytocin_junkie]

Cutedragon- I don't think he intends to make me walk on eggshells. A lot of it is me sensing his anger, and becoming anxious as a result- likely because of past incidents. I'm sure a woman without this history would command more respect, but I don't know how to act like that. And it makes me feel pathetic. I am not emotionally or financially prepared to leave. And therapy could help. Either way, I would like to learn to handle things in a manner that leaves me with some self-respect. This will also allow me to make any possibly difficult decisions in the future if it comes down to it. Thank you for your response. The budget thing made me laugh.

[Oxytocin_junkie]

Dolfin80- that diagnosis has crossed my mind.. I am trying to wait and see what happens with therapy. It is comforting to have a perspective that can help me not feel like there is just something wrong with my head, though. As I wrote to cutedragon, I am just trying to handle things in a better and less self-destructive way in the meantime.

[veryhappy]

Cutedragon- I don't think he intends to make me walk on eggshells. A lot of it is me sensing his anger, and becoming anxious as a result- likely because of past incidents. I'm sure a woman without this history would command more respect, but I don't know how to act like that. And it makes me feel pathetic. I am not emotionally or financially prepared to leave. And therapy could help. Either way, I would like to learn to handle things in a manner that leaves me with some self-respect. This will also allow me to make any possibly difficult decisions in the future if it comes down to it. Thank you for your response. The budget thing made me laugh.

 

 

All you are saying describes an abusive dynamic. Poor bully doesn't mean to be abusive. I'm sure he was the victim of whatever happened to him to bring him to who he is, but you are the victim now in this situation. The next victim will be your daughter who will absorb the dynamic and go looking for an ******* for a partner.

 

It's normal that you are not ready to leave and you may not be for a while.

 

The starting point of comanding respect is defending who you are. Hubby asks for sex. You don't want it you say no. He throws a fit. you tell him to go to therapy. He wants a blowjob, you don't. Say no. I suspect he's not going to like it, but try refusing at least one in four times. See how it is to say no and and that happening. You need to see that you have a saying in what happens to you to feel strong.

 

The nextpoint would be to define yourself outside being married to him and live as such. Ask yourself what choices you'd make if he wasn't in th picture.Maybe you'd order something else when out, maybe you'd skip the fries for the toddler, whatever it is turn the volume down on your hibby's opinions and expectations and find and live your own. Dim him out of your life. You can actually vizuallize that he has a di.mer and you turn it low whenever he triggers you.