Update on my situation

[ladydesigner]

I'm not so Sure about that. Most people in good marriages don't cheat. I believe that cheating is a symptom to a bigger problem. I really do. I was unhappy for so long that I thought I would jump out of my skin! I couldn't take it anymore I was so lonely it was unbearable. I love my husband but he treated me like his mom. Yes, when mm started pursuing me I was flattered, but I never ever would have strayed if I'd been having any kind of sex with my husband. I felt like I was single. Say I was out at a meeting that ran late. I'd get home he would be asleep and the house is locked tight and not one outside light left on for me. This happened too many times to count. He didn't put anything into this marrage. It was a sad marrage and I blame him...

 

Not true! There are cheaters that come in many forms. Some are in bad marriages, some are bored with what they have and need variety, and then there are the sex addicts who cannot stop.

 

My WH and I lived as roommates right before he started his A with MOW. Much of the reasoning for that is because he was never home. I was left to work a 9-5 job and raise the kids by myself for YEARS. I was lonely and felt like I wanted to jump out of my skin too then I found out my WH was having an A. He told me it was my fault too.

[ladydesigner]

 

It's so true! The focus is on that I strayed but what about a sexless marrage or being ignored. So that's ok but me falling in love with someone else is so taboo. I'm not denying my responsibility and my husband owns up to his share too. It takes two to make it or break it as far as I am concerned. I really did do everything in my power to save my marrage. My affair was my last straw. I mean how many years can you live like brother and sister? But anyway we do get along much better now that's for sure. My xmm is still married and miserable. We talk occasionally but I am saddened that he won't take steps to better himself but it's not my life nor concern...

 

I think your situation is different from other WS's. If you voiced this concern to your H over the years and nothing was done about it, I can see why you are so frustrated, but to say most BS's are this way is just unfair. Many of us have been putting in work and like my situation, got not much back in return so I withdrew which led to my WH's A's. While I can understand why it happened, to blame me first would not have been fair because my WH had been neglecting me for so long.

[Space Ritual]

OP,

 

Whether or not you put in the work necessary to reestablish trust, sometimes infidelity is simply a deal breaker. Maybe it is a delayed process but for some BS's, even putting in the hard work is just not enough for them to save a marriage. Life is full of inexact outcomes. And sometimes even though we give our all, just like you were under no obligation to stay in the marriage, neither was your STBX. Sometimes our best just isn't good enough, no matter the circumstances. Just a fact of life.

 

Please try to understand that although the blame for most marriage problems can be shared Fifty/Fifty, the affair you undertook was 100 percent on you. I know it is easy to blame a sexless marriage for infidelity, but you did have other options other than having an affair. And you are facing those consequences. That's the risk you run when you have an affair.

 

That being said, if you are doing the hard work still, please continue to do it for yourself. I am a firm believer that Cheaters can change if they do the hard work necessary to make themselves a safe person to be around. More often than not, the work is too daunting a task, but keep working on yourself. And do not allow what happened to define the rest of your life.

 

Good Luck:)

[WestEndGirl]

I think your situation is different from other WS's. If you voiced this concern to your H over the years and nothing was done about it, I can see why you are so frustrated, but to say most BS's are this way is just unfair. Many of us have been putting in work and like my situation, got not much back in return so I withdrew which led to my WH's A's. While I can understand why it happened, to blame me first would not have been fair because my WH had been neglecting me for so long.

 

After a certain point in time, does it really mattered who started it first? When I was married to my ex, he lost his job. I carried the weight for a while, with the understanding that he'd get another. That lasted eight years, him f**king off and having fun while I had a FT career and did freelance on the side. I was so resentful (I was also tired all of the time) at having not a H but a dependent "big child", I couldn't even begin to treat my ex with respect, so naturally, he had an A. We brought out the worst in each other.

 

Even had he shaped up, I still would have always seen him in that particular way--as someone who would rather not take care of himself, given his druthers. My perspective had irrevocably changed.

 

It's really amazing, when you think about it, that I didn't have an A first.

[ladydesigner]

After a certain point in time, does it really mattered who started it first? When I was married to my ex, he lost his job. I carried the weight for a while, with the understanding that he'd get another. That lasted eight years, him f**king off and having fun while I had a FT career and did freelance on the side. I was so resentful (I was also tired all of the time) at having not a H but a dependent "big child", I couldn't even begin to treat my ex with respect, so naturally, he had an A. We brought out the worst in each other.

 

Even had he shaped up, I still would have always seen him in that particular way--as someone who would rather not take care of himself, given his druthers. My perspective had irrevocably changed.

 

It's really amazing, when you think about it, that I didn't have an A first.

 

Of course not I just get so tired of the OW/WS blaming the BS for the A.

 

I hear you about the having the A first. Same I would have thought I would have been the first to cheat. I had my own A shortly after I caught my WH in an EA (most likely PA too but I never found out the truth about that particular A). So I am a madhatter unfortunately.

 

Your life with your ex sounds similar to my M with my WH.

[WestEndGirl]

Of course not I just get so tired of the OW/WS blaming the BS for the A.

 

God, no. Who does that? I'm sure that somewhere out there, there are truly evil BSes who make their Hs' lives a living hell, but that is very rarely the case. M couples sometimes reach that point where their core values are no longer in alignment. We change over time, and sometimes we change the same ways; and sometimes we change in ways that make us polar opposites.

[Space Ritual]

Of course not I just get so tired of the OW/WS blaming the BS for the A.

 

I hear you about the having the A first. Same I would have thought I would have been the first to cheat. I had my own A shortly after I caught my WH in an EA (most likely PA too but I never found out the truth about that particular A). So I am a madhatter unfortunately.

 

Your life with your ex sounds similar to my M with my WH.

 

Can I ask a serious question since you are a Madhatter? When you had your A did you you do it out of spite or were you using it as an Exit? I have always wanted to ask a Madhatter this question but I don't find myself coming over to this part of the forum very often as it tends to be a bit of a trigger for me. feel free to answer I am not gong to be judgemental I truly would like to know how you felt.

[Got it]

Typically, ifyou ask the betrayed ifhe or she had a similar list of grievances, you will find they do. Often, it is even longer ( after all they were dealing with a spouse who has demonstrated low integrity, lack of empathy, poor communications and problem solving abilities (( think that might contribute to marital problems?)).

Yet, for some reason ( character and integrity, perhaps?) the betrayed has not cheated.

I am amazed the people accept the cheater's versio of the source of marital problems, neglecting the fact that they are dealing with someon who, by definiton, is practiced in lying and deceit, and, moreimportnastly , extremely motivated to mislead to justify their actions to themselves and others.

 

Krashi, your opinion has been expressed ad nausuem don't you think? A WS can also have valid reasons for being unhappy in the marriage even if they do make the mistake of trying to "fix" things or at least pacify things with an affair. It doesn't change that they did have issues. And yes the other spouse may not have cheated but that could also come down to simple opportunity as well as more noble reasons.

 

I know for myself I did address the issues, I did not conflict avoid, and do have good problem solving capabilities but you can only do so much. So why did I cheat? I just didn't care any more. I didn't care to try and fix it and while I was working towards the divorce I also knew I was his emotional support and struggled with the guilt, ironically I know, of leaving him alone. So I sat in a marriage I was very vocally unhappy in but afraid to leave him due to abandoning him. I did separate a few weeks later as I knew cheating on him meant I had nothing to give back and that was the point of no return/the ultimate disrespect. We had a very amicable divorce and relationship afterwards with both parties having remarried and having kids with new spouses.

 

You obviously have an opinion on WS, and you have every right to it, but you are kind of beating a dead horse here and not following what the OP has asked for in regards to support. Not saying you have to cheerlead her but is is also not telling her that any reasoning she may have is false as well. These are her reasons and she is updating everyone that they are divorcing.

 

To clarify as well, I do not blame my ex for "making" me cheat. I fully own that I cheated of my own volition, I knew what I was doing, why I was doing it, how it would feel if he found out, and knew that it would hurt him. I fully own the decision. I know I did it because I had no respect left for the marriage and took the weaker way out of focusing on my own personal pleasure than fully tackling the hard conversations of ending the marriage/divorcing and leaving prior to it. I was fine gambling his potential hurt feelings for my immediate pleasure and that is what I did, as the full unvarnished truth.

Edited December 4, 2015 by Got it

[ladydesigner]

Can I ask a serious question since you are a Madhatter? When you had your A did you you do it out of spite or were you using it as an Exit? I have always wanted to ask a Madhatter this question but I don't find myself coming over to this part of the forum very often as it tends to be a bit of a trigger for me. feel free to answer I am not gong to be judgemental I truly would like to know how you felt.

 

Sorry in advance for t/j op:

 

I had my A for a variety of reasons. Probably spite, an ego boost, and of course possibly an exit A. I believe I tried to sabotage my M after discovery.

 

The excuses I told myself to make it okay were what's good for the goose must also be good for the gander as well as knowing my own mom cheated and if she did it then I can too (oh boy ).

 

Obviously I have been on this site and dealing with infidelity since 2008, both myself and my WH are (BS/WS) and I have learned so much here and from reading, going to therapy.

 

end t/j

 

Hope you are doing well today Josmatjes. Whatever decision you make I wish you happiness in your future.

[Krashi]

Krashi, your opinion has been expressed ad nausuem don't you think? A WS can also have valid reasons for being unhappy in the marriage even if they do make the mistake of trying to "fix" things or at least pacify things with an affair. It doesn't change that they did have issues. And yes the other spouse may not have cheated but that could also come down to simple opportunity as well as more noble reasons.

 

I know for myself I did address the issues, I did not conflict avoid, and do have good problem solving capabilities but you can only do so much. So why did I cheat? I just didn't care any more. I didn't care to try and fix it and while I was working towards the divorce I also knew I was his emotional support and struggled with the guilt, ironically I know, of leaving him alone. So I sat in a marriage I was very vocally unhappy in but afraid to leave him due to abandoning him. I did separate a few weeks later as I knew cheating on him meant I had nothing to give back and that was the point of no return/the ultimate disrespect. We had a very amicable divorce and relationship afterwards with both parties having remarried and having kids with new spouses.

 

You obviously have an opinion on WS, and you have every right to it, but you are kind of beating a dead horse here and not following what the OP has asked for in regards to support. Not saying you have to cheerlead her but is is also not telling her that any reasoning she may have is false as well. These are her reasons and she is updating everyone that they are divorcing.

 

To clarify as well, I do not blame my ex for "making" me cheat. I fully own that I cheated of my own volition, I knew what I was doing, why I was doing it, how it would feel if he found out, and knew that it would hurt him. I fully own the decision. I know I did it because I had no respect left for the marriage and took the weaker way out of focusing on my own personal pleasure than fully tackling the hard conversations of ending the marriage/divorcing and leaving prior to it. I was fine gambling his potential hurt feelings for my immediate pleasure and that is what I did, as the full unvarnished truth.

 

Sounds sociopathic to me. No empathy, selfish, abusive etc.

[Krashi]

Sorry in advance for t/j op:

 

I had my A for a variety of reasons. Probably spite, an ego boost, and of course possibly an exit A. I believe I tried to sabotage my M after discovery.

 

The excuses I told myself to make it okay were what's good for the goose must also be good for the gander as well as knowing my own mom cheated and if she did it then I can too (oh boy ).

 

Obviously I have been on this site and dealing with infidelity since 2008, both myself and my WH are (BS/WS) and I have learned so much here and from reading, going to therapy.

 

end t/j

 

Hope you are doing well today Josmatjes. Whatever decision you make I wish you happiness in your future.

 

IMO, if he cheated first, the contract was broken and, absent a recommittment to it, you had no moral obligztion to abide by it. His cheating was a material breach , ending your obligation. Thus, you did not cheat. Marruage is a contract, a sacred one. But , if one party breaks it, it is then no longer binding on the other.

[WestEndGirl]

Krashi, your opinion has been expressed ad nausuem don't you think? A WS can also have valid reasons for being unhappy in the marriage even if they do make the mistake of trying to "fix" things or at least pacify things with an affair. It doesn't change that they did have issues. And yes the other spouse may not have cheated but that could also come down to simple opportunity as well as more noble reasons.

 

What I find perplexing is why cheating is considered the very worst thing that one person could do to another. No, not even remotely. The cheating that happened in my former M was the very least of the possible betrayals.

 

I think that this one hits people's hot buttons for one or two reasons. Firstly, it's a direct hit to their pride when the WS chooses an AP "over" the BS. The M could be total sh*t and completely loveless and filled with every day misery, but the BS will still feel that strike to their ego, because ... what will other people think?

 

Secondly, an A is often perceived as a threat to financial stability. If you are a BS accustomed to a certain standard of living and there's a remote chance that the WS will leave and therefore, threaten that standard, it's a big issue. People will brook all sorts of bad behavior for the sake of creature comforts, not having to work so hard on their own.

[Krashi]

What I find perplexing is why cheating is considered the very worst thing that one person could do to another. No, not even remotely. The cheating that happened in my former M was the very least of the possible betrayals.

 

I think that this one hits people's hot buttons for one or two reasons. Firstly, it's a direct hit to their pride when the WS chooses an AP "over" the BS. The M could be total sh*t and completely loveless and filled with every day misery, but the BS will still feel that strike to their ego, because ... what will other people think?

 

Secondly, an A is often perceived as a threat to financial stability. If you are a BS accustomed to a certain standard of living and there's a remote chance that the WS will leave and therefore, threaten that standard, it's a big issue. People will brook all sorts of bad behavior for the sake of creature comforts, not having to work so hard on their own.

 

For me, it was more the theft of my time. I was pretty good looking at the time, I am told, really in shape and making a lot of $$. So, I was fooled into foregoing intimate relations eith quite a few really attractive women and living like a monk. Cannot get back that time and cannot get back into a time machine to regain thhose aspects of myself.

[Krashi]

What I find perplexing is why cheating is considered the very worst thing that one person could do to another. No, not even remotely. The cheating that happened in my former M was the very least of the possible betrayals.

 

I think that this one hits people's hot buttons for one or two reasons. Firstly, it's a direct hit to their pride when the WS chooses an AP "over" the BS. The M could be total sh*t and completely loveless and filled with every day misery, but the BS will still feel that strike to their ego, because ... what will other people think?

 

Secondly, an A is often perceived as a threat to financial stability. If you are a BS accustomed to a certain standard of living and there's a remote chance that the WS will leave and therefore, threaten that standard, it's a big issue. People will brook all sorts of bad behavior for the sake of creature comforts, not having to work so hard on their own.

Forgot to add that financial resources and my prviding most of the chilcare to subsidize the affair, also enters into thd analysis. Essentially, like my earlier post , a theft/fraud based analysis. No one likes to be defauded by anyone, let alone a person who has pledged loyalty and care to you.

Frankly, subjectively, I feel I was better looking and nicer than my XW, and, in fact, post divorce, began dating a much prettier, somewhat younger woman. So, I do not feel it as so much about ego vs just feeling used.

Financially, eventually, I became better off, too not havi g to deal with her overspending.

[Sub]

What I find perplexing is why cheating is considered the very worst thing that one person could do to another. No, not even remotely. The cheating that happened in my former M was the very least of the possible betrayals.

 

That's a pretty bold statement. If we're speaking strictly in regards to relationships, it's all relative to what the M is like, and what is "the worst" depends on the perspective of the individual. Should BS's not feel crushed because....hey, your spouse cheating on you isn't the WORST thing they could do to you. Or are you painting with the broad stroke that the ramifications of most A's pale in comparison to what the WS feels pushed them in that direction?

[WestEndGirl]

That's a pretty bold statement. If we're speaking strictly in regards to relationships, it's all relative to what the M is like, and what is "the worst" depends on the perspective of the individual. Should BS's not feel crushed because....hey, your spouse cheating on you isn't the WORST thing they could do to you. Or are you painting with the broad stroke that the ramifications of most A's pale in comparison to what the WS feels pushed them in that direction?

 

Yes, it is all relative to the quality of the M, I'm sure. I just don't understand why people toss out the word "betrayal" and the only thing that comes to mind is cheating. What's emotional, verbal, and/or physical abuse, then? What's being married to someone who screws you out of your life savings, or who racks up a crapload of mutual debt that can never be repaid? Or being married to an addict who's always losing jobs, getting arrested and making every day an exercise in misery tolerance? Or making "vows" with someone who doesn't want s*x with you, and if it does happen, it's preceded by copious amounts of begging and bargaining?

 

You tell me those aren't serious betrayals, too? Why is infidelity the very worst possible thing that can happen in a M?

[Sub]

Yes, it is all relative to the quality of the M, I'm sure. I just don't understand why people toss out the word "betrayal" and the only thing that comes to mind is cheating. What's emotional, verbal, and/or physical abuse, then? What's being married to someone who screws you out of your life savings, or who racks up a crapload of mutual debt that can never be repaid? Or being married to an addict who's always losing jobs, getting arrested and making every day an exercise in misery tolerance? Or making "vows" with someone who doesn't want s*x with you, and if it does happen, it's preceded by copious amounts of begging and bargaining?

 

You tell me those aren't serious betrayals, too? Why is infidelity the very worst possible thing that can happen in a M?

 

I do know that it's probably the most common. A majority of the infidelity situations that I've either encountered in real life or read of on this board don't include BS's who were criminals, addicts, financial disasters or philysically/emotionally abusive.

[goodyblue]

IMO, if he cheated first, the contract was broken and, absent a recommittment to it, you had no moral obligztion to abide by it. His cheating was a material breach , ending your obligation. Thus, you did not cheat. Marruage is a contract, a sacred one. But , if one party breaks it, it is then no longer binding on the other.

 

That is a really interesting notion. Now... remember all of the OTHER promises that are made in marriages. If one of those is broken is the cheater then off the hook? Because if that is the case my guy has nothing to worry about AT ALL. I would wager the same goes for 99% of MM. Or are some breaches worse than others? Hmmm.

Edited December 6, 2015 by goodyblue

[NewLeaf512]

Of course not I just get so tired of the OW/WS blaming the BS for the A.

 

I hear you about the having the A first. Same I would have thought I would have been the first to cheat. I had my own A shortly after I caught my WH in an EA (most likely PA too but I never found out the truth about that particular A). So I am a madhatter unfortunately.

 

Your life with your ex sounds similar to my M with my WH.

 

Hi LD

 

I never blamed BS for the A. Sorry for being daft but what is a mad hatter?

 

Thanks

NL

[Krashi]

That is a really interesting notion. Now... remember all of the OTHER promises that are made in marriages. If one of those is broken is the cheater then off the hook? Because if that is the case my guy has nothing to worry about AT ALL. I would wager the same goes for 99% of MM. Or are some breaches worse than others? Hmmm.

 

Clearly some are worse than others. But, of the ones often mentioned as being near equal, very few are done clandestinely, like an affair. The victim is aware of the breach and thus sble to make an informed decision.

If somoeone verbally or physically abuses you, withholds intimacy refuses to wotk, etc., you know it and can take steps to avoid the abuse.

I suppose hidden gambling, financial abuse might be similar. But, in cheating situations, like the one I was in, I was clueless for a long time. Years of my life were a lie and stolen from me.

See the distinction: one has the awareness about other breaches so as to act and mitigate. Not so in an affair situation. Time is stolen, clandestinely.

[lftbehind]

Clearly some are worse than others. But, of the ones often mentioned as being near equal, very few are done clandestinely, like an affair. The victim is aware of the breach and thus sble to make an informed decision.

If somoeone verbally or physically abuses you, withholds intimacy refuses to wotk, etc., you know it and can take steps to avoid the abuse.

I suppose hidden gambling, financial abuse might be similar. But, in cheating situations, like the one I was in, I was clueless for a long time. Years of my life were a lie and stolen from me.

See the distinction: one has the awareness about other breaches so as to act and mitigate. Not so in an affair situation. Time is stolen, clandestinely.

 

That explains your replies to posters. Sorry that your were in the situation that you were in.

[Krashi]

That explains your replies to posters. Sorry that your were in the situation that you were in.

 

Thanks. Things are better, now. Still scarred, but life can do that.

I keep harping on thism and, I suupose it is just a fundamental, philosophical difference in approaches to life and the cocept of fairness. But, how do OW and O M deal with feeling OK about participating in hurting the BS and children of the BS ( and , perhaps their own kids, too if they hsve any.

I understand that a WS demonizes the BS to feed the rationalization hamster. But, what does the AP do to assuage guilt etc, assuming he or she has a conscience?

[WestEndGirl]

Essentially, like my earlier post , a theft/fraud based analysis. No one likes to be defauded by anyone, let alone a person who has pledged loyalty and care to you.

 

Of course not. You can get a lot of things back, but one of them isn't time. Which is why I always advocate immediate separation if either partner has any serious doubts about the M -- or R (because some committed couples don't want to marry). Especially if there's a third party involved.

[goodyblue]

Clearly some are worse than others. But, of the ones often mentioned as being near equal, very few are done clandestinely, like an affair. The victim is aware of the breach and thus sble to make an informed decision.

If somoeone verbally or physically abuses you, withholds intimacy refuses to wotk, etc., you know it and can take steps to avoid the abuse.

I suppose hidden gambling, financial abuse might be similar. But, in cheating situations, like the one I was in, I was clueless for a long time. Years of my life were a lie and stolen from me.

See the distinction: one has the awareness about other breaches so as to act and mitigate. Not so in an affair situation. Time is stolen, clandestinely.

 

I am quite certain people involved with verbal or physical abuse would disagree. Basically you are deciding which matters more. If the contract is broken, it is broken. The end.

 

My guy went 12 years with no intimacy. He didn't want to leave his daughter. He is very religious and that stopped him also. I don't think he would have ever left if he and I had not had an affair. He would have stayed out of duty, or guilt. And I, for one, believe the 12 years he dealt with were WAY worse than the less than a year affair we had.

Edited December 6, 2015 by goodyblue

[Krashi]

I am quite certain people involved with verbal or physical abuse would disagree. Basically you are deciding which matters more. If the contract is broken, it is broken. The end.

 

My guy went 12 years with no intimacy. He didn't want to leave his daughter. He is very religious and that stopped him also. I don't think he would have ever left if he and I had not had an affair. He would have stayed out of duty, or guilt. And I, for one, believe the 12 years he dealt with were WAY worse than the less than a year affair we had.

 

 

My Xw was verbally abusive, witheld intimacy, as well. But, i was aware of itvs d made the decision to tty to work on the marriage.

You fail to address the clandestine nature of cheating depriving one of choice.

That is a critical distinction.

Edited December 6, 2015 by a LoveShack.org Moderator